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View Full Version : Orcish Flail-Spear [4e, my players stay out]



Zaq
2010-10-31, 01:18 PM
So, long story short, a while ago I found a picture in an old second edition rulebook of an orc clutching what is clearly an orcish flail-spear (that being a spear with a chain and flail attached near the pointy end). It's a hilarious image, and will resonate with my group for reasons that it would take too long to explain. (Let's just say that this picture isn't the first time that we've used the term "orcish flail-spear" and leave it at that.) I want to throw someone wielding this a ridiculous weapon at them today, but if all it does is attack them and do damage, that really doesn't do the image justice. What can the orcish flail-spear do that makes it as interesting as it seems? I do not want it to end up having a chance to hurt or kill its own wielder, since although that is exactly what such a stupid weapon would do, that's really not the point. I was toying with having it flank with itself (I could describe in cinematic hilarity what happens as the orc jabs you in the chest with the pointy part, then the flaily part swings around and clobbers you in the back of the head), but that's not terribly interesting, especially since flanking is just boring old CA nowadays, and if all it does it automatically grant CA, eh, that's not too interesting.

So, I'm taking suggestions. The party is level 8, has five people, and is reasonably well-balanced (all the roles are covered, with a pretty even split between melee and ranged). What should the wielder of the dreaded orcish flail-spear be capable of?

Erom
2010-10-31, 01:35 PM
I'd either go with

A) On hit knockdown or on hit immobilize till end of next turn (Using the flail as a snaring device)

OR

B) Secondary attack against adjacent enemy with every swing. (It's got a built in cleave!)

Either of those combined with the long reach of a spear, then tossed onto a standard Orc monster chassis (a rage power and a strike, add more if elite/solo) should work out pretty good.

I once ran an encounter with a Drow direct damage caster protected with two net-and-trident bodyguards, that basically used option A. It worked really well, they served their purpose of preventing even a single hit on the priestess as long as they stayed alive (which was only a few rounds since I didn't give them enough hp).

Grynning
2010-10-31, 01:40 PM
sounds like it's pretty clearly a double weapon. Like most double weapons, it should probably have the Defensive and Stout properties. Basically, just use the existing Double Flail stats but make the primary end fall into the Spear group. Any special properties of using a flail/spear in 4th ed would come from the wielder, not the weapon itself, so maybe give your Orc baddie some of the fighter powers/feats that would exploit that?

Mando Knight
2010-10-31, 01:42 PM
sounds like it's pretty clearly a double weapon.

Actually, it's not. The flail end is right next to the spear end. It's like a spear wearing a flail as a collar.

Zaq
2010-10-31, 01:43 PM
It's not quite a double weapon, Grynning. Both the dangerous parts are on one end, rather than on opposite sides of the haft. That's part of what makes it so funny-looking. Does that change anything?

Gametime
2010-10-31, 01:47 PM
You could give it a built-in cleave; attack one person with the spear, hit someone adjacent with the flail as it swings around from the momentum. Same principle as the auto-flank, but a bit more interesting in practice (and good for a boss fight, if that's what this is supposed to be).

EDIT: Oh, wait, someone already pointed that out. Curses! In a similar vein, you could just give it two attacks per attack, hitting the same person twice.

Mando Knight
2010-10-31, 02:05 PM
You could give it a built-in cleave; attack one person with the spear, hit someone adjacent with the flail as it swings around from the momentum.

The problem with that is that flails and spears are used completely differently. You rarely make a swiping motion with most spears, and stabbing motions don't help with flails. This is just another "stupid D&D weapon," like the Dire Flail or SPAM-sketch polearms (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html).

Grynning
2010-10-31, 02:10 PM
It's not quite a double weapon, Grynning. Both the dangerous parts are on one end, rather than on opposite sides of the haft. That's part of what makes it so funny-looking. Does that change anything?

Ahhh...having not seen the picture, that wasn't clear...

Hrm...Ok. Here's my take on this:

Orc Flail Spear
Superior Two-handed Weapon
+2, 1D10 Damage
Groups: Flail, spear
Keywords: Brutal 1
Special: If you are proficient with this weapon and hit with a weapon keyword power or a melee basic attack using this weapon, you may use the following secondary attack before the end of your turn:
Melee Weapon
Minor Action
Target: One creature hit with the Orcish Flail-Spear this turn or adjacent to a target hit with the Orcish Flail-Spear this turn.
Str v. Reflex
Hit: 1W

Gametime
2010-10-31, 03:14 PM
The problem with that is that flails and spears are used completely differently. You rarely make a swiping motion with most spears, and stabbing motions don't help with flails. This is just another "stupid D&D weapon," like the Dire Flail or SPAM-sketch polearms (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html).

The original post made clear that realism isn't the point. If it was, flail-spears wouldn't be used at all.

Zaq
2010-11-01, 03:39 AM
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I ended up just giving reach and an extra swing to the basic attack of the "Orc Gruumsh-Sworn" (which had some very appropriate tripping and slowing attacks). Naturally, the players demanded that I let them loot it. The thing's clearly too insane to be used as an actual weapon, so I'm probably going to say that the wizard can use it as an orb (the flail is actually a very spiky magic orb! WHO KNEW), which I think he'll love. I think that the Orb of Insurmountable Force seems appropriate for such a thing, don't you?

mathewt
2010-11-01, 10:52 AM
You could make it that after a successful hit with the spear portion, the flail lets you make a grab attack. Mind you, if that worked, the spear would be bound up, but it'd still be amusing to have the spear stuck in and effectively tied into place. It could have an ongoing damage component for as long as the grab was in effect too...

HenryHankovitch
2010-11-01, 11:14 AM
Maybe the orc attacks with the spearhead, and then there's some random chance of the flail head hitting the target, or someone else adjacent to the target. Even give it a chance of hitting the wielder.

So f'rinstance, on every attack roll a d6. On 6, the flail part of the flail-spear hits the target of the melee attack. on 2-3 it attacks a square to the left of the target, on 4-5 it attacks a square to the right of the target, and on a 1 it hits the wielder.