Random D&Der seeks Intelligence.

[AnonymousD&Der]

Hi hi. I'm sorta completely new at this stuff, and was hoping for a few pointers (as well as not to be devowered alive for doing something I didn't know I shouldn't have. Please give me some leniency and let me fix anything I do wrong that I shouldn't have). All of my questions are geared toward the 3.5 edition of Dungeons and Dragons.

My first (and considering how it effects a handful of players, probably my most important) question is whether or not this character creation device we downloaded from the internet is any good. "E-Tools". What say any of you over said device? It seems to give a lot of character options, and with all of the plug ins supports multiple different types of play, my friends and I have grown to like it. It seems up to date with at least the basic source books, too (although admitedly, I've cheepishly relied only on whatever online pdfs possible, since I'm broke as a flat tire).

Actually, that last part brings me to my next part. I kinda wanted to start Dungeon Mastering myself (or at least trying to, just to see how it would feel like). And it would be nice for the players (and one of them has specifically asked) to have information they can look at and use. And while the D&D Wiki is fun, since half of it is homebrewed (and I'm not even attempting to try to work custom maid items into a campaign, less I figure out how to give one of my characters the ability to willingly fly without advancing their level 200 ranks *any tips on that would be loved* ), I'd prefer my friends to not be side tracked by random links leading to player made stuff so easily. So would anyone happen to know where I could gain the Pdfs for successful play, and how many/which ones I or my players would need?

My next question is rather simple, yet rather complicated. In a campaign, is a GMPC required? I'd like to avoid some of the stereotypes of it, and playing the villain / people of the campaign I had in mind might be cool enough on its own. But at the same time, being able to join players against traps and monsters (even ones that I've planed myself) might be fun, too, so long as I make sure everyone can have a chance at it.

Speaking of Homebrewing and campaigns, I'm going to probably have to create my own monsters for my own, aren't I? The campaign was going to involve a team of adventurers being recruited for a quest to a desert region, where they would then accept a job from a mysterious figure to investigate a series of temples enshrining an ancient pharoah, and seek the pharoah's most valuable treasures from within to return to the world. Skeletal Enemies, Demons, Zombies, Insects, Mummies, most of the stereotypes of a generic pyramid game. But considering you'd be facing them early, and I'm still not sure what level to make the players, they'd have to be weak enough to be beatable, but strong enough to provide a challenge.....

Also, are traps okay? I was convinced by one of the players that's gonna play the campaign to avoid instant death trap like having to grapple onto a platform or fall into a pit of lava, but am I allowed to have the players be damaged by Dice Rolling based Quick Time Events? And what would be a good way of creating them for a player if I can, assuming they aren't having to be latched to a grid like the combat syste?

Ending statement leading into next question: Grids. Any quick programs I can use for grid based combat in terrained areas? I know I have to have grids, to determine attack ranges and sneak attacks and all that good stuff, so it's best that I learn it now.

No more gming based questions. Now we move onto play styles. I am admitedly kind of a "metagamer", and have gotten sorta curious over a few things I've read while Wiki Walking and Lurking about various forums. And I'd like to ask about them.

First of all, the Heal Skill is pretty much useless, isn't it? I like playing Clerics or Druids, but from what I've seen, healing isn't all that vital... and even if it was, the Heal Skill doesn't even seem to be capable of healing... just keeping people from not dying. Or slowly recovering if they have enough time.

Also, unless I read wrong (and I should probably go back and verify what I've read) Spellcraft is the best spell-caster's skill in the game. If so, why?

And finally, Cleric or Druid Zilla? Huh? Might I ask how one is suppost to play a Cleric or Druid? I can understand Wizards being awesome as heck (although I don't see why a Sorceror wouldn't be up with them, and I admitedly have never even heard about half of the other classes on this tier list, assuming anyone here even thinks anything of it: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0 ), but why would the ability to Turn Undead or have an Animal Companion be top tier? And yes, I acknowledge the fact that I know very little about D&D. Please keep in mind that I'm completely new at this before anyone decides to chew me a new one.

I suppose that's about all I have to ask about right now. I'll probably think of new things that I'd like to ask, but let's just see if anything here gets any responces first. PS: If you guys do respond to this, may I ask that you don't respond to me in short handed leet speak? I shouldn't be picky, since I'm asking for info and assistance, but it's just kinda hard to read. ^_^; Thank you all for your advice. Happy D&Ding!

[Elfin]

My first (and considering how it effects a handful of players, probably my most important) question is whether or not this character creation device we downloaded from the internet is any good. "E-Tools". What say any of you over said device? It seems to give a lot of character options, and with all of the plug ins supports multiple different types of play, my friends and I have grown to like it. It seems up to date with at least the basic source books, too (although admitedly, I've cheepishly relied only on whatever online pdfs possible, since I'm broke as a flat tire).

I've not heard of E-tools, but there are quite a number of useful virtual aid programs.

As for the pdfs, as unless you purchased them they're not really legal - well, I think we shy away from discussing such things.


Actually, that last part brings me to my next part. I kinda wanted to start Dungeon Mastering myself (or at least trying to, just to see how it would feel like). And it would be nice for the players (and one of them has specifically asked) to have information they can look at and use. And while the D&D Wiki is fun, since half of it is homebrewed (and I'm not even attempting to try to work custom maid items into a campaign, less I figure out how to give one of my characters the ability to willingly fly without advancing their level 200 ranks *any tips on that would be loved* ), I'd prefer my friends to not be side tracked by random links leading to player made stuff so easily. So would anyone happen to know where I could gain the Pdfs for successful play, and how many/which ones I or my players would need?

Voila. (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm)


My next question is rather simple, yet rather complicated. In a campaign, is a GMPC required? I'd like to avoid some of the stereotypes of it, and playing the villain / people of the campaign I had in mind might be cool enough on its own. But at the same time, being able to join players against traps and monsters (even ones that I've planed myself) might be fun, too, so long as I make sure everyone can have a chance at it.

DMPCs are not at all required. In fact, I strongly recommend you don't include one: they are very difficult to pull off well, even in the hands of an experienced DM.


Speaking of Homebrewing and campaigns, I'm going to probably have to create my own monsters for my own, aren't I? The campaign was going to involve a team of adventurers being recruited for a quest to a desert region, where they would then accept a job from a mysterious figure to investigate a series of temples enshrining an ancient pharoah, and seek the pharoah's most valuable treasures from within to return to the world. Skeletal Enemies, Demons, Zombies, Insects, Mummies, most of the stereotypes of a generic pyramid game. But considering you'd be facing them early, and I'm still not sure what level to make the players, they'd have to be weak enough to be beatable, but strong enough to provide a challenge.....

Start them at level 4 or so; this way, zombies and skeletons are useful mooks, giant insects (at CR1-5 or so for the large and smaller versions) cover a wide range, and CR5 mummies will be tougher. Demons like quasits will still be quite hard to beat, though, and demons like babaus should only be included as boss monsters.


Also, are traps okay? I was convinced by one of the players that's gonna play the campaign to avoid instant death trap like having to grapple onto a platform or fall into a pit of lava, but am I allowed to have the players be damaged by Dice Rolling based Quick Time Events? And what would be a good way of creating them for a player if I can, assuming they aren't having to be latched to a grid like the combat system?

There are a lot of example traps in the DMG; try looking at those. In general, traps are good fun when used in moderation, but they can become tiring. And definitely don't have traps that 'insta-kill' PCs on a failure.


Ending statement leading into next question: Grids. Any quick programs I can use for grid based combat in terrained areas? I know I have to have grids, to determine attack ranges and sneak attacks and all that good stuff, so it's best that I learn it now.

Actually, while grids help, they're really not necessary. If you do want to use a grid, I suggest you just buy some large grid paper or an erasable whiteboard and make tokens out of whatever you have handy to represent monsters and characters.


First of all, the Heal Skill is pretty much useless, isn't it? I like playing Clerics or Druids, but from what I've seen, healing isn't all that vital... and even if it was, the Heal Skill doesn't even seem to be capable of healing... just keeping people from not dying. Or slowly recovering if they have enough time.

Heal isn't the worst skill, and it may be a good idea for divine casters to get at least 5 ranks for Healing Lorecall. But yeah, it's not great.


Also, unless I read wrong (and I should probably go back and verify what I've read) Spellcraft is the best spell-caster's skill in the game. If so, why?

Spellcraft basically covers everything spell-like except for checks to cast when interrupted: identifying enemy spells, spells on scrolls, magic items, etc.


And finally, Cleric or Druid Zilla? Huh? Might I ask how one is suppost to play a Cleric or Druid? I can understand Wizards being awesome as heck (although I don't see why a Sorceror wouldn't be up with them,

Lack of versatility. On one day, a wizard could be a blaster, slinging orbs and area effect spells; the next day, he could be a utility caster, the next a buffbot, the next a batman, the next a cunning enchanter...while the sorcerer is always bound by a very limited selection of spells.

and I admitedly have never even heard about half of the other classes on this tier list, assuming anyone here even thinks anything of it: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0 ), but why would the ability to Turn Undead or have an Animal Companion be top tier? And yes, I acknowledge the fact that I know very little about D&D. Please keep in mind that I'm completely new at this before anyone decides to chew me a new one.

For the cleric, Turning Undead is actually one of their worst class features, and should be traded away as soon as possible for another ability.
Take away Turning and see what's left: a divine caster with 3/4 BAB, two good saves, a d8 hit die...plus full spellcasting.

And the druid? An animal companion is fantastic! Look at an animal companion's stats, and you'll quickly see that an animal companion even in Core is often better (sometimes much better) than a typical fighter PC of the druid's level. Essentially, the druid is bringing two PCs to the table.
And that's not all, no. They again get full spellcasting...as well as Wild Shape, which is basically an all-day Shapechange spell. Starting at level 5.
And for all three - the wizard, druid, and cleric - splatbooks just make things crazier.

That does not, however, mean that you should go the route of many DMs and ban all but Core. While splatbooks make Tier 1 classes somewhat more powerful, they give lower tier characters more options and thus even out the field. Never forget: many of the most egregious offenders in the way of balance are Core.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Extremely good points, Elvenblade, but I have one objection to one particular point you made.

Turn undead is a top-tier class feature *if* you use it for any other thing other than turning undead, lets see what is fueled by turn attemtps:

*Most (if not all) [Divine] feats, including the ever popular divine metamagic, divine might, etc.

*Devotion feats, which are some of the best and IMO funner feats in the game.

*There is a spell in the SpC... turn anathema, that lets you turn outsiders opposed to one (or both, I don't remember exactly) componet of your own aligment, and since most outsiders have HD relatively equal to its CR, turning can actually be useul.

Now back on the original topic, I would suggest trying to run a published module to get a feel of DM'ing... I tried to start with my own campaing.... and it was a disaster, (right now I am preparing to run the ever popular RHoD module) and running a module will give you the experience to make your own campaing later. Also if you do run a module, please bear in mind that what it's written on the module is not set in stone, you can alter it to suit your's (and your groups') tastes/play style better.

[faceroll]

DMPCs are not at all required. In fact, I strongly recommend you don't include one: they are very difficult to pull of well, even in the hands of an experienced DM.

I don't know why people say this. Running GMPCs is really easy, and sometimes necessary with small parties.

[Darrin]

My first (and considering how it effects a handful of players, probably my most important) question is whether or not this character creation device we downloaded from the internet is any good. "E-Tools".


I don't know anything about E-Tools. Just one minor bit of advice: creating characters with pencil & paper is probably one of the best ways to learn how an RPG works. Going in immediately with E-Tools where it does everything for you may prevent or delay the players from learning the system. That being said, D&D can be friggin' complicated, so yeah, electronic tools can be extremely helpful. Best advice I have for any kind of software-type-thing: if it helps you get to the "fun bits" of actually rolling dice and getting excited about what happens next more quickly, use it.



So would anyone happen to know where I could gain the Pdfs for successful play, and how many/which ones I or my players would need?


The SRD is all the players need to get started. I use realmspire (http://srd.realmspire.com/home.html), but there are dozens of different SRD sites with various formats.



My next question is rather simple, yet rather complicated. In a campaign, is a GMPC required?


No, it's not required. As you're just starting out, I'd avoid it. A GMPC/DMPC is usually brought in to fix a problem, but there are almost always better solutions. If you have a small group and are worried the PCs will get overpowered, scale back the encounters, try Gestalt rules, or let the PCs invest in hirelings. If the PCs are lacking a truly vital skill/ability, allow them to be creative. Most of the time, they come up with something a lot more interesting than the DM could think up. If the PCs are resistant to being dragged around by the nose to everything the DM thinks is important... let them *show you* what they think is important.



Speaking of Homebrewing and campaigns, I'm going to probably have to create my own monsters for my own, aren't I?


The Monster Manual provides pretty much everything you need. Skeletons, zombies, mummies, insects, everything you might need for a generic pyramid game. If you need to create something yourself, it's easier to just take an existing creature and give it a couple class levels or a template. Use the CR system until you get a better idea of what your PCs can handle. If you screw up and make something really overpowered, you can always fudge a weak hit into "Oh, hey, it's dead."



Also, are traps okay? I was convinced by one of the players that's gonna play the campaign to avoid instant death trap like having to grapple onto a platform or fall into a pit of lava, but am I allowed to have the players be damaged by Dice Rolling based Quick Time Events? And what would be a good way of creating them for a player if I can, assuming they aren't having to be latched to a grid like the combat syste?


This is a fairly high-level question, and involves a lot about game theory and playing styles. Some designers really dislike traps that are essentially a "HP Tax", in that they are intended to damage PCs regardless of how hard they try to find/disable them. If the trap isn't found, you hit a perfectly innocent PC who has no way to avoid the damage other than to shrug and say, "Oh well, I guess we need to spend the next 37 hours to search every square and Take 20", which eats up game time and fun. If the trap is found, then the party rogue is happy, but the rest of the players are bored and restless because they couldn't find the trap and are completely uninvolved in circumventing it.

I did see an article on a blog somewhere that was arguing you should put a big neon sign in front of every trap that says "Trap here!". That way, the PCs know about it without wasting time searching for it. If they choose to circumvent it, then the entire party can get involved. If they disable it, then they do so as a result of their own actions and skills. If they get nailed by it, then it's because they took a calculated risk and failed, rather than the DM randomly announcing, "Oh, you didn't check *that* sqaure, take X damage."



Ending statement leading into next question: Grids. Any quick programs I can use for grid based combat in terrained areas? I know I have to have grids, to determine attack ranges and sneak attacks and all that good stuff, so it's best that I learn it now.


Can't really help you here. I photocopied a 3/4" grid sheet from the back of the map in the Intro Adventure Game. I do all my maps old-school with pencils and Crayola markers.



First of all, the Heal Skill is pretty much useless, isn't it?


Yep. Put your skill points somewhere else. I'm a big fan of Tumble.



Also, unless I read wrong (and I should probably go back and verify what I've read) Spellcraft is the best spell-caster's skill in the game. If so, why?


Almost everything out of the ordinary in D&D usually boils down to "A wizard did it!" Spellcraft tells you what he did. Actually, Spellcraft is probably a kludge for what should be Knowledge checks, but since trying to keep track of which parts of the world belong in the various Knowledge categories is tedious and klunky, most players/DMs just use Spellcraft as a catch-all for anything magic-related. I say, if it speeds up gameplay, go ahead and use it that way.



And finally, Cleric or Druid Zilla? Huh? Might I ask how one is suppost to play a Cleric or Druid?


Clerics can generally do anything a wizard can do, it just takes them a little more prep-time. They get a rep for being uber-powerful mostly because with one spell (Divine Power), then can do everything the Fighter can do, *and* they can still Flame Strike or summon a vorpal unicorn to cut you in half. Druids have a rep for being uberpowerful because they can do anything a cleric or wizard can do, *while ripping your face off as a polar bear*, AND while their polar bear animal companion rips up the other half of you.

There are as many different ways to play either cleric or druid as there are D&D players. One of the *better* ways is usually focus on buff spells so that the other party members get to unload some whoopass, correct things that prevent other PCs from enjoying themselves (remove curse, remove disease, heal, raise dead), and only go full-aggro divine metamagic persistent vorpal unicorn when the PCs really need a miracle to save their bacon. To put it more succinctly: Don't hog the spotlight.



why would the ability to Turn Undead or have an Animal Companion be top tier?


Turn Undead = fuel for Divine Metamagic Persistent spells. Also can be used to power other things... very very rarely used against undead, and something of a killjoy if it does get used that way.

Animal Companion = Everything a fighter can do, and totally cuter and cuddlier.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Animal Companion = Everything a fighter can do, and totally cuter and cuddlier.

Sooo tempted to sig that..... must resist >.<

[imperialspectre]

Hi hi. I'm sorta completely new at this stuff, and was hoping for a few pointers (as well as not to be devowered alive for doing something I didn't know I shouldn't have. Please give me some leniency and let me fix anything I do wrong that I shouldn't have). All of my questions are geared toward the 3.5 edition of Dungeons and Dragons.

You won't be devoured by most of the people here. Don't worry about it. :smallwink:


And while the D&D Wiki is fun, since half of it is homebrewed (and I'm not even attempting to try to work custom maid items into a campaign, less I figure out how to give one of my characters the ability to willingly fly without advancing their level 200 ranks *any tips on that would be loved* ), I'd prefer my friends to not be side tracked by random links leading to player made stuff so easily. So would anyone happen to know where I could gain the Pdfs for successful play, and how many/which ones I or my players would need?

Avoid the D&D Wiki like the plague. The site you need for Core + Psionics (along with a few variants) is the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org). It's completely legal.


My next question is rather simple, yet rather complicated. In a campaign, is a GMPC required? I'd like to avoid some of the stereotypes of it, and playing the villain / people of the campaign I had in mind might be cool enough on its own. But at the same time, being able to join players against traps and monsters (even ones that I've planed myself) might be fun, too, so long as I make sure everyone can have a chance at it.[/url]

GMPCs are almost always a bad idea. I've never seen one run well in the 3 years I've been playing tabletop RPGs.

[QUOTE]Speaking of Homebrewing and campaigns, I'm going to probably have to create my own monsters for my own, aren't I? The campaign was going to involve a team of adventurers being recruited for a quest to a desert region, where they would then accept a job from a mysterious figure to investigate a series of temples enshrining an ancient pharoah, and seek the pharoah's most valuable treasures from within to return to the world. Skeletal Enemies, Demons, Zombies, Insects, Mummies, most of the stereotypes of a generic pyramid game. But considering you'd be facing them early, and I'm still not sure what level to make the players, they'd have to be weak enough to be beatable, but strong enough to provide a challenge.....[/url]

Get It's Hot Outside (official title: Sandstorm) for extra desert material.

[QUOTE]Also, are traps okay? I was convinced by one of the players that's gonna play the campaign to avoid instant death trap like having to grapple onto a platform or fall into a pit of lava, but am I allowed to have the players be damaged by Dice Rolling based Quick Time Events? And what would be a good way of creating them for a player if I can, assuming they aren't having to be latched to a grid like the combat syste?

Quick-time events are one of the worst plagues of recent video games to begin with. Why would they be better in a tabletop environment?

In general, traps are either a free source of XP to the rogue, an HP tax to the party for not having a rogue, or instant death. The SRD has a list of traps; in general, I would recommend staying away from them until you're more familiar with the D&D 3.5 system.


First of all, the Heal Skill is pretty much useless, isn't it? I like playing Clerics or Druids, but from what I've seen, healing isn't all that vital... and even if it was, the Heal Skill doesn't even seem to be capable of healing... just keeping people from not dying. Or slowly recovering if they have enough time.

Yeah, it's worthless. And yes, in-combat healing is a waste of actions because you can't heal as much damage as your allies are taking. A Wand of Cure Light Wounds is the best source of healing in the SRD; there are other options in supplements, if you eventually get them.


Also, unless I read wrong (and I should probably go back and verify what I've read) Spellcraft is the best spell-caster's skill in the game. If so, why?

Spellcraft allows you to identify the spells enemies are casting. If you ID their spells, you can counter them.

Also, you need it if you're a Wizard or want to identify scrolls and such.


And finally, Cleric or Druid Zilla? Huh? Might I ask how one is suppost to play a Cleric or Druid? I can understand Wizards being awesome as heck (although I don't see why a Sorceror wouldn't be up with them, and I admitedly have never even heard about half of the other classes on this tier list, assuming anyone here even thinks anything of it: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0 ), but why would the ability to Turn Undead or have an Animal Companion be top tier? And yes, I acknowledge the fact that I know very little about D&D. Please keep in mind that I'm completely new at this before anyone decides to chew me a new one.!

Clericzilla and Druidzilla refer to a specific playstyle for those classes, focused on self-buffs followed by beating the hell out of whatever is in front of you. Druids have an easier time of it than Clerics, because Wild Shape + Natural Spell means that you can turn into something that is naturally very good at clawing and nomming things, then make yourself even stronger with spells. Clerics don't have that huge native benefit of starting out as a bear or lion or whatever, but they still do have some very powerful buff spells (such as divine power) which make them potentially very effective at auto-attacking people.

Note that that's only one valid playstyle for the two classes. Druids have some of the better battlefield control spells in the game, along with some extremely potent late-game wildshape options (such as turning into an air elemental and destroying things badly). Clerics have a number of the best save-or-lose spells in the game, and a number of cleric spells buff the whole party, which can be more effective than self-buffs in some circumstances.

For the record, supplements offer Clerics the ability to use their turn undead attempts for things that are actually useful, such as applying metamagic to those self-buffs to make them last longer or cast faster (Extend/Persistent Spell and Quicken Spell, respectively).

***************

In general, this is the most important advice that I can give a 3.5 DM: from a game design perspective, non-spellcasters in 3.5 simply don't get nice things. You need to make sure your players get nice things. Whether that means buying Tome of Battle so that your players can play Warblades, Crusaders, and Swordsages instead of Fighters, Paladins, and Monks respectively, getting rid of the Tier 1 classes you mentioned in your first post, or some other solution, it's really important to find a solution that works for your gaming group.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

[Godless_Paladin]

http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm


And finally, Cleric or Druid Zilla? Huh? Might I ask how one is suppost to play a Cleric or Druid? Too big a question to answer straight-away. There are tons of viable roles for a Cleric or Druid. You can seriously play, say, a Cleric in pretty much any role you like, be it an archer, tank, necromancer, buff/debuff controller, or whatever. And to top it off, whatever they're doing, they're still jacks of all trades and can do other things nicely too.


First of all, the Heal Skill is pretty much useless, isn't it? It kinda sucks, yeah.


Also, unless I read wrong (and I should probably go back and verify what I've read) Spellcraft is the best spell-caster's skill in the game. If so, why? Identifies spells and potions and such. That's pretty damn handy on its own. Certain useful specific effects call for Spellcraft checks, too.


Ending statement leading into next question: Grids. Any quick programs I can use for grid based combat in terrained areas? I know I have to have grids, to determine attack ranges and sneak attacks and all that good stuff, so it's best that I learn it now. Maptool.

http://www.rptoolstutorials.net/videos/What_is_MapTool1/What_is_MapTool1.html

http://www.rptools.net/index.php?page=maptool


In a campaign, is a GMPC required? No. Where'd you get that idea? :smallconfused:



Clericzilla and Druidzilla refer to a specific playstyle for those classes No it doesn't. Heck, I know the guy who originally spawned the meme. CoDzilla refers to any Cleric or Druid. The original context was demonstrating the imbalance in a core-only game, and the consensus being "just have someone play a Cleric or Druid and rampage over the game like it's little Tokyo."

Clerics and Druids have always been really damn good. They just get even better when more supplements are added because, well, they automatically know every spell that ever existed on the Cleric / Druid spell list (plus, new wildshape forms / stuff to use Turn attempts on)


And yes, in-combat healing is a waste of actions because you can't heal as much damage as your allies are taking.

Not all healing spells are bad in combat. Just a lot of them, like the Cure X Wounds line of spells. For example, Heal is good.

[AnonymousD&Der]

I thank you all for your input and advice. But let me ... "cleric-fy" (see what I did there?) a few things.

First of all, if it hasn't been made an obvious point yet, I'm a complete and total neophyte when it comes to Dungeons and Dragons. Heck, (and I know -someone- is going to hate on me for this, although I can't blame them for it, since I have the same issue with people who like a certain band but only know it's Guitar Hero Songs) I only got into Dungeons and Dragons through the Order of the Stick! One of my friends started talking about Role Playing and D&Ding after a while, and I wanted to try it for real. So try not to eat me alive, but I pretty much know zilch. ^_^;

As for Clerics and Druids, when asked about them, I was honestly trying to ask about how one plays a Cleric or Druid. Most of the time I've played with my friends as a Druid (haven't tried a Cleric yet, although I intend to do one if I join in the desert campaign, more on that later), I've just tried to stay to the back with a Ranged Weapon (that I didn't even know I had penalties on using) while my Animal Companion fights for me. Of course Wizards would be awesome as heck, considering they can fling Meteor Swarms at people from like 500 feet away for about 200 damage, but I honestly haven't seen anything that a Cleric or Druid (or any other class, for that matter) can do to possibly measure up to that. I was honestly still under the stereotype that we'd just kinda heal people. ^_^;

And lastly, about the traps. There will indeed be Indiana Jones Style "step on a tile and bad stuff goes down" events (although I intend to save those for the Tomb of the Pharoah section of the game), but that's not what I had in mind for traps. One example of what I did kinda want to do was during the first part of the first Temple. The team would have to cross a rickety, but sturdy rope bridge, over a large drop into a deep water filled chasm. After being about half way accross, I'd have the team do a spot check, and have someone point out the Stone Minotaur (who will be a bit of a re-occuring enemy for the first area and a few others) attempting to smash the end of the rope bridge behind them, and someone will have to strike him from a distance to stop him. Dice Rolling Time! If they fail, he breaks the bridge, they take a bit of falling damage, and have to deal with Aquatic Enemies (Skeleton Fish and maybe a Crocodile or Two) until they reach the stair case and climb up the side with bats attacking them. If they succeed, they'll stop him from breaking the bridge, and will only have to walk accross and deal with a few bats. If they do well enough, they'll outrite damage him, and during the subsequent boss fight against him, he'll be slightly weakened. And if someone gets a 20 during the quick time event, they spectacularly destroy him by striking the Jewel atop his head, and everything from the head to just above the naval (except for the arms) blows up. A savy player can even go back (fighting a few skeleton mooks that will be the generic enemy for this campaign) and take the "Club of the Minotaur" as a bonus item. And of course, the Boss Fight gets skipped completely.

I'll need to specify when I mean Trap and when I mean Event, but are things like these (which I'm refering too as Events) okay? But for now, responding to each of your helpful messages. And pardon me for not responding to each individual part of each messages the way you guys did mine. I'm not sure how to. ^_^;


I've not heard of E-tools, but there are quite a number of useful virtual aid programs.

As for the pdfs, as unless you purchased them they're not really legal - well, I think we shy away from discussing such things.

Voila. (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm)

DMPCs are not at all required. In fact, I strongly recommend you don't include one: they are very difficult to pull of well, even in the hands of an experienced DM.

Start them at level 4 or so; this way, zombies and skeletons are useful mooks, giant insects (at CR1-5 or so for the large and smaller versions) cover a wide range, and CR5 mummies will be tougher. Demons like quasits will still be quite hard to beat, though, and demons like babaus should only be included as boss monsters.

There are a lot of example traps in the DMG; try looking at those. In general, traps are good fun when used in moderation, but they can become tiring. And definitely don't have traps that 'insta-kill' PCs on a failure.

Actually, while grids help, they're really not necessary. If you do want to use a grid, I suggest you just buy some large grid paper or an erasable whiteboard and make tokens out of whatever you have handy to represent monsters and characters.

Heal isn't the worst skill, and it may be a good idea for divine casters to get at least 5 ranks for Healing Lorecall. But yeah, it's not great.

Spellcraft basically covers everything spell-like except for checks to cast when interrupted: identifying enemy spells, spells on scrolls, magic items, etc.

Lack of versatility. On one day, a wizard could be a blaster, slinging orbs and area effect spells; the next day, he could be a utility caster, the next a buffbot, the next a batman, the next a cunning enchanter...while the sorcerer is always bound by a very limited selection of spells.

For the cleric, Turning Undead is actually one of their worst class features, and should be traded away as soon as possible for another ability.
Take away Turning and see what's left: a divine caster with 3/4 BAB, two good saves, a d8 hit die...plus full spellcasting.

And the druid? An animal companion is fantastic! Look at an animal companion's stats, and you'll quickly see that an animal companion even in Core is often better (sometimes much better) than a typical fighter PC of the druid's level. Essentially, the druid is bringing two PCs to the table.
And that's not all, no. They again get full spellcasting...as well as Wild Shape, which is basically an all-day Shapechange spell. Starting at level 5.
And for all three - the wizard, druid, and cleric - splatbooks just make things crazier.

That does not, however, mean that you should go the route of many DMs and ban all but Core. While splatbooks make Tier 1 classes somewhat more powerful, they give lower tier characters more options and thus even out the field. Never forget: many of the most egregious offenders in the way of balance are Core.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

I like trying to set up my character on my own, but having a program that lists all of the available feats and spells and skills and lets me pick which ones I'm using... It really is rather helpful.

I suppose I -should- avoid anything illegal. I try to be Neutral Good. ^_^;

Thanks for the website. It is a bit more organized than the Wiki is, although I'd still like to find files for people to use.

I know that there's a big issue with GMPCS trying to steal the spot light from players. Infact, one of my friends has complained about our DM making him feel obsolete. About the only thing I planned on doing as a GMPC would be just to try to keep people on track. Anyone genre savy enough to recognize the Big Bad early on and shoot him probably would unless the group had a morality chain to keep them from doing so, for example. Not to mention I'm not sure how many players we might have. If all of my friends can join in, we -might- have 4 players. If we have less than that, I might need to join in. Although so long as I let other players do most of the killing, and focus on just making things fun, and maybe healing those that are hurt so they can continue to play, I feel I could try and work well as a GMPC...

Um.... What's a Quasit? And what's a Babau? ^_^; Also, does the Monster Manual have any information on Zombified and/or Skeleton Feline based Monsters? I intend for the group to have to use Camels to cross to one of the areas, and I feel that some Skeletal Cheetahs would be fun. Also, I suppose I can start the group at level 4.

I talked about Traps earlier, but I will indeed use some of the DMG traps in certain areas. Just to help spice up some of the areas.

For Grids, I've got Legos. Moving in 3 Dimensions above or below certain points might be annoying, but I can still use the Grid whenever we have to battle. Do I need to use Grids outside of Battle? Seems like just walking would be fine.

Heh. I gave my Druid 7 Ranks in Heal, with the Self Sufficient Feat and a Healer's Kit along with an 18 in Wisdom, for a grand total of 15 ranks in Heal. So much for being able to help repair my allies. XD I suppose I'll just have to carry a few Wands of Cure Light Wounds.

So Spellcraft is just sort of a blanket skill, and since Wizards and most spell casters can't learn most other skills, they can at least learn it. I wonder if I should invest ranks in it or not.

Seems like if you're always capable of launching death at anything you point at, it doesn't matter if you feel like being Batman one day or a Sayain another day. So long as you're killing your enemies, seems like you still win. XD

I didn't know you could trade an ability away for another ability. Nifty. Also, what do you mean by 3/4 BAB? I know that BAB is Base Attack Bonus, but the slashes by the numbers, especially when there's more than 2 numbers just plain confuses me. Although I do understand them having good Fortitude and Will Saves. Sucks about their Reflex Save. And yes, they do have good spells, although still, nothing beats Meteor Swarm. XD

I know an An Animal Companion Rocks (although completely outclassing a Fighter stinks for Fighters. XD) Also, I didn't know Wild Shape lasted that long (although admitedly, I've yet to even use the ability in the games I've played with my friends. Mostly because we've not gotten that high before. XD). As for splatbooks.... what are splatbooks?

I never intended to ban half of the game. ^_^; I just wanted to try out DMing D&Ding. Our other DM's pretty good, and it seems fun, so I thought it would be cool. Thank you for your support.


Extremely good points, Elvenblade, but I have one objection to one particular point you made.

Turn undead is a top-tier class feature *if* you use it for any other thing other than turning undead, lets see what is fueled by turn attemtps:

*Most (if not all) [Divine] feats, including the ever popular divine metamagic, divine might, etc.

*Devotion feats, which are some of the best and IMO funner feats in the game.

*There is a spell in the SpC... turn anathema, that lets you turn outsiders opposed to one (or both, I don't remember exactly) componet of your own aligment, and since most outsiders have HD relatively equal to its CR, turning can actually be useul.

Now back on the original topic, I would suggest trying to run a published module to get a feel of DM'ing... I tried to start with my own campaing.... and it was a disaster, (right now I am preparing to run the ever popular RHoD module) and running a module will give you the experience to make your own campaing later. Also if you do run a module, please bear in mind that what it's written on the module is not set in stone, you can alter it to suit your's (and your groups') tastes/play style better.

Heh. An Awesome Skill if used for everything but what it's suppost to be. I find that amusing. Also, I've -no- idea how to even begin working feats. I should probably learn, and fast. But for right now, I know nothing. XD

And I don't intend on taking someone else's campaign. It would probably be better, and I acknowledge that this campaign is likely to go up in flames. But it's just not in me to follow someone elses game my first try. If it really goes that bad, then I'll try to run another game (modified, if need be, for the sake of the group), but I wanna try to walk on my own first, even if I break my legs in the process. Thank you for your advice.


I don't know why people say this. Running GMPCs is really easy, and sometimes necessary with small parties.

Would you consider 3-4 players big enough for a party? I'll be lucky if I can even get that, and if I can only get 2 other players and myself.... eh, I might -have- to have a character of my own join in.


I don't know anything about E-Tools. Just one minor bit of advice: creating characters with pencil & paper is probably one of the best ways to learn how an RPG works. Going in immediately with E-Tools where it does everything for you may prevent or delay the players from learning the system. That being said, D&D can be friggin' complicated, so yeah, electronic tools can be extremely helpful. Best advice I have for any kind of software-type-thing: if it helps you get to the "fun bits" of actually rolling dice and getting excited about what happens next more quickly, use it.

The SRD is all the players need to get started. I use realmspire (http://srd.realmspire.com/home.html), but there are dozens of different SRD sites with various formats.

No, it's not required. As you're just starting out, I'd avoid it. A GMPC/DMPC is usually brought in to fix a problem, but there are almost always better solutions. If you have a small group and are worried the PCs will get overpowered, scale back the encounters, try Gestalt rules, or let the PCs invest in hirelings. If the PCs are lacking a truly vital skill/ability, allow them to be creative. Most of the time, they come up with something a lot more interesting than the DM could think up. If the PCs are resistant to being dragged around by the nose to everything the DM thinks is important... let them *show you* what they think is important.

The Monster Manual provides pretty much everything you need. Skeletons, zombies, mummies, insects, everything you might need for a generic pyramid game. If you need to create something yourself, it's easier to just take an existing creature and give it a couple class levels or a template. Use the CR system until you get a better idea of what your PCs can handle. If you screw up and make something really overpowered, you can always fudge a weak hit into "Oh, hey, it's dead."

This is a fairly high-level question, and involves a lot about game theory and playing styles. Some designers really dislike traps that are essentially a "HP Tax", in that they are intended to damage PCs regardless of how hard they try to find/disable them. If the trap isn't found, you hit a perfectly innocent PC who has no way to avoid the damage other than to shrug and say, "Oh well, I guess we need to spend the next 37 hours to search every square and Take 20", which eats up game time and fun. If the trap is found, then the party rogue is happy, but the rest of the players are bored and restless because they couldn't find the trap and are completely uninvolved in circumventing it.

I did see an article on a blog somewhere that was arguing you should put a big neon sign in front of every trap that says "Trap here!". That way, the PCs know about it without wasting time searching for it. If they choose to circumvent it, then the entire party can get involved. If they disable it, then they do so as a result of their own actions and skills. If they get nailed by it, then it's because they took a calculated risk and failed, rather than the DM randomly announcing, "Oh, you didn't check *that* sqaure, take X damage."

Can't really help you here. I photocopied a 3/4" grid sheet from the back of the map in the Intro Adventure Game. I do all my maps old-school with pencils and Crayola markers.

Yep. Put your skill points somewhere else. I'm a big fan of Tumble.

Almost everything out of the ordinary in D&D usually boils down to "A wizard did it!" Spellcraft tells you what he did. Actually, Spellcraft is probably a kludge for what should be Knowledge checks, but since trying to keep track of which parts of the world belong in the various Knowledge categories is tedious and klunky, most players/DMs just use Spellcraft as a catch-all for anything magic-related. I say, if it speeds up gameplay, go ahead and use it that way.

Clerics can generally do anything a wizard can do, it just takes them a little more prep-time. They get a rep for being uber-powerful mostly because with one spell (Divine Power), then can do everything the Fighter can do, *and* they can still Flame Strike or summon a vorpal unicorn to cut you in half. Druids have a rep for being uberpowerful because they can do anything a cleric or wizard can do, *while ripping your face off as a polar bear*, AND while their polar bear animal companion rips up the other half of you.

There are as many different ways to play either cleric or druid as there are D&D players. One of the *better* ways is usually focus on buff spells so that the other party members get to unload some whoopass, correct things that prevent other PCs from enjoying themselves (remove curse, remove disease, heal, raise dead), and only go full-aggro divine metamagic persistent vorpal unicorn when the PCs really need a miracle to save their bacon. To put it more succinctly: Don't hog the spotlight.

Turn Undead = fuel for Divine Metamagic Persistent spells. Also can be used to power other things... very very rarely used against undead, and something of a killjoy if it does get used that way.

Animal Companion = Everything a fighter can do, and totally cuter and cuddlier.

I'm gonna try to figure out the steps to producing a character sheet without the leectronics, but I still need to learn the facists of character customization. Until then, I'll keep using the basic electronic devices that tell me all of the stuff.

You guys are all certain that there's nothing else I need but the Standard Reference Doccuments? Exactly how many rule books are there? Is this http://xkcd.com/393/ really true?

I've no problem with scaling back encounters and stuff, although I've got no idea what Gestalt rules are, and considering one of them about attacked me when I considered the Leadership feat for a character (he had been getting onto me all the time for trying to min-max my character. XP), I'm not sure how people are going to feel about Underlings. Although I will try to give them a chance before I try to join.... actually, I'll be honest, concerning the last lines, I'm not quite sure what you mean. ^_^;

I get somewhat imaginative (assuming that's just just my subconcious copying everything around me), although Skeleton Sorcerors and the rare Skeleton Bard might be cool. And I'm not all completely sure how adding Classes and Templates works... I wanted to make a Half Celestial Druid when I was playing with my friends, just for the ability to Fly (because that would be -awesome- as heck), but the max level for the campaign at the momment was 4, and being a Half Celesstial means I'd have to have a level 8 character for it..... actually, I've no idea how that works. I should probably ask about that. But bumping up Monsters with Templates seems like it could totally work.... and of course, I've no problem with throwing the game to ensure people get further into the campaign. Sure as heck better doing that than killing them all at the beginning and the story and fun jump out the window and suicide on the cold hard ground.

Again, Traps, I don't intend to cover -every square inch- with traps. Of course, I'll have a few to let the group rogue have a bit of fun (although if we don't have a Rogue, I probably won't even have them), but other wise, I'll stick to monster spawns with spot checks, lesser traps that the average person would know to walk around (unless a section gets boring, and the group spell caster doesn't watch where he's going and opens the door to a Giant Rolling Dung-Ball of DOOM. >:D), and the Events I described earlier. I don't intend to clutter it and make disarming 20 feet of walking space take up an entire session. Just things to make it interesting, while fitting the stereotypes of a Pyramid Campaign. And no, no Neon Signs. If I put down Neon Signs, they will -definitely- fail their Spot Checks, and will get mad about it. ^_^

I suppose Legos are an imaginative way of doing the Grids whenever being attacked is occuring.

And Gosh Darn It To Heck! I wish there was a "Player's Guide" to skills somewhere in this place, but I can't find one. ;.;

I'm still not seeing a Cleric or Druid beat Meteor Swarm. And I -really- need to get a campaign started in which I can use Wild Form. XD

Any possible Links to a newbies' guide to the Cleric or Druid (or Bow Rangers, since I took a personality quiz and it gave me Human-NeutralGood-Ranger, beating out most all other options completely) would be appreciated. And thank you for your support.


Sooo tempted to sig that..... must resist >.<

It's not always true.... What if you had an Octopu... Snak.... Tyrano.... Nevermind. ^_^;


You won't be devoured by most of the people here. Don't worry about it. :smallwink:

Avoid the D&D Wiki like the plague. The site you need for Core + Psionics (along with a few variants) is the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org). It's completely legal.

GMPCs are almost always a bad idea. I've never seen one run well in the 3 years I've been playing tabletop RPGs.

Get It's Hot Outside (official title: Sandstorm) for extra desert material.

Quick-time events are one of the worst plagues of recent video games to begin with. Why would they be better in a tabletop environment?

In general, traps are either a free source of XP to the rogue, an HP tax to the party for not having a rogue, or instant death. The SRD has a list of traps; in general, I would recommend staying away from them until you're more familiar with the D&D 3.5 system.

Yeah, it's worthless. And yes, in-combat healing is a waste of actions because you can't heal as much damage as your allies are taking. A Wand of Cure Light Wounds is the best source of healing in the SRD; there are other options in supplements, if you eventually get them.

Spellcraft allows you to identify the spells enemies are casting. If you ID their spells, you can counter them.

Also, you need it if you're a Wizard or want to identify scrolls and such.

Clericzilla and Druidzilla refer to a specific playstyle for those classes, focused on self-buffs followed by beating the hell out of whatever is in front of you. Druids have an easier time of it than Clerics, because Wild Shape + Natural Spell means that you can turn into something that is naturally very good at clawing and nomming things, then make yourself even stronger with spells. Clerics don't have that huge native benefit of starting out as a bear or lion or whatever, but they still do have some very powerful buff spells (such as divine power) which make them potentially very effective at auto-attacking people.

Note that that's only one valid playstyle for the two classes. Druids have some of the better battlefield control spells in the game, along with some extremely potent late-game wildshape options (such as turning into an air elemental and destroying things badly). Clerics have a number of the best save-or-lose spells in the game, and a number of cleric spells buff the whole party, which can be more effective than self-buffs in some circumstances.

For the record, supplements offer Clerics the ability to use their turn undead attempts for things that are actually useful, such as applying metamagic to those self-buffs to make them last longer or cast faster (Extend/Persistent Spell and Quicken Spell, respectively).

In general, this is the most important advice that I can give a 3.5 DM: from a game design perspective, non-spellcasters in 3.5 simply don't get nice things. You need to make sure your players get nice things. Whether that means buying Tome of Battle so that your players can play Warblades, Crusaders, and Swordsages instead of Fighters, Paladins, and Monks respectively, getting rid of the Tier 1 classes you mentioned in your first post, or some other solution, it's really important to find a solution that works for your gaming group.

Good luck. :smallsmile:

Yay for not being eaten alive!

You guys seem to totally like this website. And yay for Legality!

What exactly is so bad about a GMPC, other than the fact that they know how the story goes? And although that's a -huge- issue, it's not one I'm too worried about. I'm very good at seperating what I know from what I'm not suppost to know, and like wise seperating my mind from my character (please no obligatory dumb jokes. I know that's a perfect set up for one, but still).

It's Hot Outside? I wish I lived near a hobbyshop, but my main source of information where I live is the Internet, unfortunately.

And I rather like Quick Time Events, so long as they aren't -too- random or too unforgiving. In Rail Shooters, for example, when you respond to an event and the path changes, for example. Such things are okay with me. Which is why admitedly, the whole River of Lava Event I had in mind might be better off as just a River of Boiling Water.

I like the list of traps, but I'll try to use very few until I'm familiar with them. And so long as people can succeed their random spot checks (I'll throw a few extra random spot checks that don't do anything, just to cause Paranoia >:3), they should be able to live fine.

Is it still feezeable for Divine Spell Casters to have Cure X Wounds for use after the battle? And how would someone gain Wands of Cure Light Wounds, exactly? I'm still not too canny about how they work. ^_^;

How does someone counter a spell, even if they know which spells they have to counter?

And what exactly is the difference between Spellcraft and Read / Detect Magic?

Heh. Cleric or Druid Hulk sounds a bit more specific to Powering Up and Smashing Things than Godzilla, who is simply always strong and passively smashes. Although that's certainly an interesting way to fight.... I might need to look it up and see how to play it (and some of the other play styles) myself. XD

Where would I go about finding these "supplements". Also, I've never really understood the Metamagic Feats. Heck, I kinda eschewed the spell related feats because since our GM had us do mainly low level campaigns, we couldn't use them much. Not enough spell slots to make anything worth it. XD

In my group, mainly 'cause it seems that none of us know how to play, we've not had issues with Class Tiers. Heck, our Druid (me) basically assumed itself to Heal, and the Sorceror has been outstaged in power by the Rogue and the Ranger. I'll try to actually DM and possibly give bonus items and situations specifically to give other players a chance in the lime light, but for now, I've yet to see a problem with the way our group plays.

Thank you for your advice and tips.


http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm

Too big a question to answer straight-away. There are tons of viable roles for a Cleric or Druid. You can seriously play, say, a Cleric in pretty much any role you like, be it an archer, tank, necromancer, buff/debuff controller, or whatever. And to top it off, whatever they're doing, they're still jacks of all trades and can do other things nicely too.

It kinda sucks, yeah.

Identifies spells and potions and such. That's pretty damn handy on its own. Certain useful specific effects call for Spellcraft checks, too.

Maptool.

http://www.rptoolstutorials.net/videos/What_is_MapTool1/What_is_MapTool1.html

http://www.rptools.net/index.php?page=maptool

No. Where'd you get that idea? :smallconfused:

Clerics and Druids have always been really damn good. They just get even better when more supplements are added because, well, they automatically know every spell that ever existed on the Cleric / Druid spell list (plus, new wildshape forms / stuff to use Turn attempts on)

Not all healing spells are bad in combat. Just a lot of them, like the Cure X Wounds line of spells. For example, Heal is good.

Another vote for the d20 index. I'll definitely have to link everyone to it when ever we get to play together.

Hm... I'm just so used to Healing I suppose I've subconciously closed my mind to any other option... although I still don't see myself beating the Wizard's Meteor Swarm.

I need to ensure I have ways to -actually- heal then. What on Earth does Heal do, other than eat skill points and help defend against situational... situations (although a few random poisoned projectiles would be interesting...).

Hm..... Map Tools looks pretty cool... I might give it a shot and see if it works for me.

I'm scared of doing everything bad that I -shouldn't- do with a GMPC, but at the same time, I'd definitely need to have a Teacher's Pet amoung the PCs to make sure the campaign works... or for all of the players to be working together perfectly and willingly (and how infintly slim are those chances?). Not to mention we might need more players.....

Again with the Supplements.... I'm still trying to figure out the basic stuff.... I bet there are Schools for people to learn how to play this game.

And isn't Heal learned like -WAY- later on? I really need to learn how to play... I wish people could heal with a special ability instead of a spell or item... But thanks for the tips so far.

Do you guys mind if I continue to use this thread to ask my random questions for stuff? Like for example, way for people to heal without spells and stuff, as well as how templates and stuff works (so I can figure out how to give a player character the ability to Fly, which would be awesome as all can be) and character play styles? Thanks for helping me so far, and thank you for for any additional support.

[AnonymousD&Der]

I probably shouldn't double post, but I did -not- realize how huge a wall of text I posted. Holy heck, how long was I thinking of my responces!?!

[Fhaolan]

I don't know why people say this. Running GMPCs is really easy, and sometimes necessary with small parties.

Problem is, it's really easy to mess up and get a bit too... protective... of the GMPC leading to bad experiences for the players. It's one of those GM tools that seems easy on the face of it, but can really backfire if you're new to table-top RPGs. Once you start getting defensive about the character, it's likely too late. If you start needing to 'prove something' , like how cool the character is, it is too late. The second you start to demand respect as the GM rather than earn it, it is *way* too late.

GMPCs can be done well, but just like trying to run a game with 20+ players, it's not something you should leap into. Work your way up. :smallsmile:

[faceroll]

Would you consider 3-4 players big enough for a party? I'll be lucky if I can even get that, and if I can only get 2 other players and myself.... eh, I might -have- to have a character of my own join in.

Depends on what the players want to play as, and what level they start at. Level 1 rogue and wizard will want a fighter buddy who can flank with the rogue and choke up a hallway so the wizard doesn't get swarmed.

With only two players, you're going to have some holes in party rolls. I would either roll out a divine caster (cleric or druid) if the players don't have any divine casters, cause you'll need healing, or a wizard if their isn't a wizard, because all those knowledge skills are useful and spell back up is loved by everyone. Just be careful about spell selection on casters, since you'll often know exactly what you're going to be up against. I would recommend preparing mostly buffs and stuff that's useless in combat.

If the party is melee heavy, go cloistered cleric for knowledge skills and healing (on SRD). If melee light, go druid or regular cleric for some tanking ability and healing. If melee heavy and divine casting is present, go mage. Depending on what you want to run, the DMPC can be fit to a variety of niches, both for combat & gameplay purposes as well as narrative ones.

Of course, a fighter just to do steady damage and take steady hits is always good in a party that doesn't already have a fighter. And even if there already is a fighter, paladin, or ranger, a sword-and-board fighter that can help flank is good.

The problem with 2-person parties is action disadvantage. It's really, really easy to wipe a party of 2 people.

Also, don't be too stuck on healing. Just give out a couple wands of healing early on if a party member as use magic device. By relatively early on, they can reliably use those out of battle to patch up between encounters.


Problem is, it's really easy to mess up and get a bit too... protective... of the GMPC leading to bad experiences for the players. It's one of those GM tools that seems easy on the face of it, but can really backfire if you're new to table-top RPGs. Once you start getting defensive about the character, it's likely too late. If you start needing to 'prove something' , like how cool the character is, it is too late. The second you start to demand respect as the GM rather than earn it, it is *way* too late.

GMPCs can be done well, but just like trying to run a game with 20+ players, it's not something you should leap into. Work your way up. :smallsmile:

GMPCs are tools, and like any other tool, they can be used constructively or destructively. It's really easy to mess up with a knife and slash an entire sorority to ribbons, and sometimes sorely tempting, but I would never tell someone to "work their way up to a knife". Especially if they need to cut up meat for the stew.


Hmmm, that came out a little creepy.

[Fhaolan]

GMPCs are tools, and like any other tool, they can be used constructively or destructively. It's really easy to mess up with a knife and slash an entire sorority to ribbons, and sometimes sorely tempting, but I would never tell someone to "work their way up to a knife". Especially if they need to cut up meat for the stew.


Hmmm, that came out a little creepy.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying be cautious with the tool. Just because you *can* doesn't mean you *should*. If you're not familiar with the tool, it's easy to use it for the wrong task.

To take your knife analogy, it's fine to use a knife to cut up meat for the stew. It's not quite so fine to borrow the multi-thousand-dollar chef's filleting knife to pry off a beer cap. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I'm actually going to pull this one into RL for a sec. My wife started to carve a pumpkin a few years ago. She pulled out one of the thin fruit carving knives I have from when I worked for a catering company, and started to cut the main hole for scooping up the insides... and snapped off the blade inside the pumpkin.

While that knife would have been fine for doing detail work, it was never meant for heavy cutting. But she didn't know that because she wasn't familiar with those specific knives and hadn't worked with them before. Through this experience she learned that any knife can't substitute for any other knife, and that each tool (or subtype of tool) can have a specific purpose. Trying to use it for a different purpose can actually make the job more difficult than it needs to be.

[Newt]

If the trap is found, then the party rogue is happy, but the rest of the players are bored and restless because they couldn't find the trap and are completely uninvolved in circumventing it.

I'm a fan of "ork captives down that tunnel, follow 10ft behind". :P Involves the whole party, keeps the paladin/cleric entertained for hours on end, does wonders for a CE rogue's mood. And takes less time.

If that is unavailable thanks to uppity paladins trying to kill you for it, try Summon Monster 1, cheap, effective, won't get any complaints from anyone but the Society for Humane Treatment of Magical Animals, and someone sicked a dracolich on them recently so they'll be fair quiet too. Or that Unseen Helper? Tensers Floating Disk, anything that can move as directed and drag something behind it to set off traps. Rogues generally get their kicks from seeing hours of effort defeated, and a log works just as well as lockpicks, just not as subtle.

And there's a Detect Traps spell, fairly certain a determined and probably highly annoyed Wizard could custom a Disable Traps spell.

[Newt]

Um.... What's a Quasit? And what's a Babau? ^_^; Also, does the Monster Manual have any information on Zombified and/or Skeleton Feline based Monsters? I intend for the group to have to use Camels to cross to one of the areas, and I feel that some Skeletal Cheetahs would be fun. Also, I suppose I can start the group at level 4.

Heh. I gave my Druid 7 Ranks in Heal, with the Self Sufficient Feat and a Healer's Kit along with an 18 in Wisdom, for a grand total of 15 ranks in Heal. So much for being able to help repair my allies. XD I suppose I'll just have to carry a few Wands of Cure Light Wounds.

So Spellcraft is just sort of a blanket skill, and since Wizards and most spell casters can't learn most other skills, they can at least learn it. I wonder if I should invest ranks in it or not.


Heh. An Awesome Skill if used for everything but what it's suppost to be. I find that amusing. Also, I've -no- idea how to even begin working feats. I should probably learn, and fast. But for right now, I know nothing. XD



Zombie and Skeletons are both templates, I'm fairly certain. So in the Monster Manual they will be. Quasit will be in their too.

Spellcraft if useful, end of story. :P Useful for dispelling, scrolling spells into a spellbook, ID'ing magic effects, etc.

Heal is useful for stabilizing people in combat, but yea, wand of cure light wounds kinda makes it obsolete. More useful for a fighter with no wand, or in a low/null magic campaign.

Level 4 is easy enough to start, not much XP, not too many feats/skills/etc to deal with. Or introduce +LA characters. :P

Feats? Don't know how to work as in don't know how to use? I recommend you go read the Players Handbook 3.5, followed by Monster Manual 3.5, and Dungeon Masters Guide 3.5. That will introduce you to the game, give you basic knowledge on most ideas and show you templates, monsters, etc.

Books like Sandstorm, as mentioned, are fantastic, but read the core books, then broaden your focus. Need the basics, bad.


Meteor Swarm is ok, but there's lots of spells out there. Fairly certain it's Core Druid who can cast Volcano. :P

[Psyx]

Avoid GMPCs like the plague. If you want to play: Play. If you want to run: Run. Don't try to do both. GMPCs either turn into zombies-that-heal and add nothing to the gaming experience, or are Mary-Sue characters that the party will come to dispise you for.

[Duke of URL]

If you only have 2 other players, you may want to consider letting each play 2 characters. It's not optimal, but for a beginner, it's much easier balancing encounters to a more standard party of four than it is to worry about scaling things down for only two characters, who likely don't have all of the traditional bases covered.


Um.... What's a Quasit? And what's a Babau? ^_^; Also, does the Monster Manual have any information on Zombified and/or Skeleton Feline based Monsters? I intend for the group to have to use Camels to cross to one of the areas, and I feel that some Skeletal Cheetahs would be fun.

Demon, Babau (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#babau)
Demon, Quasit (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#quasit)

Skeleton (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) and Zombie (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) are templates (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#templates) added to base monsters, like, say Camels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/camel.htm) or Cheetahs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cheetah.htm).

Using those links...

Skeleton, Cheetah
Size/Type: Medium Undead
Hit Dice: 3d12 (19 hp)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (+5 Dex, +2 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+4
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws -1 melee (1d2+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Immunity to cold, DR 5/bludgeoning
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 21, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: Improved Initiative
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, or family (3-5)
Challenge Rating: 1
Advancement: 4-5 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —

Zombie, Camel
Size/Type: Large Undead
Hit Dice: 6d12+3 (42 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12
Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d8+5) or Bite +7 melee (1d4+5)
Full Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d8+5) or Bite +7 melee (1d4+5)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, Single actions only
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +5
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 14, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: Toughness
Environment: Warm deserts
Organization: Domesticated or herd (6-30)
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —