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Grifthin
2010-11-01, 01:15 AM
Due to some clever gameplay and roleplay my party now has control of a major city and it's resources. In the course of this they also managed to neutralize 2 of the largest factions that where supporting the enemy. Without going into to much detail how can I put some limits on them when they have access to:

A - Massive trade routes bringing in money.
B - Mages guild with several high level Mages.
C - Thieves Guild with several talented individuals.

They are masquerading as the queen and her advisors using illusions and geass spells. The only saving grace is that it has no standing army and that carrying any weapons larger than a dagger/short sword was forbidden, so it will take time for them to train forces. The Kobold in the party has also expressed interest in bringing his tribe and it's allies in exchange for shinies and the dwarf in the party has said he wishes to start training the troops into a more efficient fighting force. The inquisitor has already decided to start training his own agents.

With all this in mind - What can I do to slightly hamper their progress, what kind of obstacles can I put in their path and does anyone here have any suggestions on how to run large scale conflicts ? I've never run a campaign with army/political intrigue before. We are playing pathfinder core + Advanced players guide. All help appreciated. If any info is needed please let me know.

The party is level 12.
Dwarf Fighter
Ranger/Horizon walker (kobold)
Human Inquisitor
Bard varient focussing on social and mind affecting spells.

KingOfLaughter
2010-11-01, 01:39 AM
2 Things

1) Colossal + Red Dragon(s)
2) Aliens

In seriousness, while they're unprepared hit em with an invasion, a large attack force that smashes through at night is an easy way to neutralize over pwoered PCs

Quellian-dyrae
2010-11-01, 01:43 AM
I think the usual advice for army-scale conflicts is, let the war happen in the background, while the PCs deal with major opponents and critical missions and the like (the Azure City arc of OoTS is a good example).

As far as the resources go, it really depends on the politics of the city, but unless they're impersonating an unquestioned tyrant queen or someone who is similarly automatically obeyed, you can probably get away with saying there's sufficient bureaucracy in play to at least slow them down. Likewise, just because the city is wealthy doesn't have to mean that the ruler gets first dibs on every gold piece passing through its gate. Really, they're probably high enough level that you can avoid handing out normal adventuring treasure, and let funds from the city supply their wealth.

The guilds, well, wizard's guilds have plenty of excuses to be every bit as independent as they want to be, and thief guilds aren't exactly a governing official's typical first choice of allies. And, the fact that they're using illusions and deception to maintain this position means they probably want to be real careful about going up to powerful wizards and skilled rogues and demanding services.

I'd say, let them get away with as much as helps drive the story, reward them appropriately for investing time and effort into their city (such as training a fighting force), and use bureaucracy, suspicion, politics, and intrigue as needed to keep them from wrecking the campaign. Unless it has a lot of unquestioningly loyal high-level characters, you shouldn't have too much trouble legitimatizing that the city can't provide them with campaign-breaking resources.

And if that all fails, stage a peasant revolt.

Godless_Paladin
2010-11-01, 01:54 AM
A - Massive trade routes bringing in money. See competition. Or any of a variety of more esoteric obstacles to trade. Maybe a dragon decided to hoard a trade fleet. Whatever. There's no reason that trade routes should be a turnkey operation that just brings in money. In fact, there's every reason that it shouldn't and would require all kinds of maintenance, which could easily take the form of adventures.

B - Mages guild with several high level Mages.
C - Thieves Guild with several talented individuals. See life expectancy of heads of Mage / Thief guilds. These things aren't turnkey operations. Mages get along worse than a bag full of cats, and thieves are little better when it comes to ambition and intrigues. A king should never sit too comfortably on his throne.


They are masquerading as the queen and her advisors using illusions and geass spells. True seeing. Dispel Magic at a public event by a rival or conspirator.

Really, their hold on all of their assets sounds rather tenuous. The problem from my perspective isn't how few options you have to challenge them... it's that your choices are absolutely overflowing and there's so many to choose from! I could go on indefinitely listing possibilities.


I've never run a campaign with army/political intrigue before. This is a favorite area of mine, but unfortunately I'm not willing to type up a full on guide to running a sweeping scale war / intrigue campaign just now. Only more specific questions.

Godskook
2010-11-01, 01:58 AM
True Seeing is a 5th level cleric spell(CR 9 clerics, CR 11 wizards). Avorals are NG CR 9 threats(who have it). CR appropriate kingdoms *will* have this magi-tech available, and *will* bring it to bear eventually.

Fitz10019
2010-11-01, 02:47 AM
Introduce a problem that they don't have the resources to handle, like a plague.

Tell them it's time for an annual event, something social/political where dignitaries that have known the queen for years must be invited to.

BridgeCity
2010-11-01, 02:57 AM
True Seeing is a 5th level cleric spell(CR 9 clerics, CR 11 wizards). Avorals are NG CR 9 threats(who have it). CR appropriate kingdoms *will* have this magi-tech available, and *will* bring it to bear eventually.

I agree with this. Is there some reason why none of the mages, who must be pretty powerfull to be running a guild, or any of the temple's clerics have not been able to pierce the illusions, whether through true seeing type spells, or just the fact that their will saves vs. illusions should be pretty decent?

If that is something you have over looked, I'd hit them with the mages secretly realisng they are imposters and orchestrating a city wide rebellion to overthrow the ursurpers.

Grifthin
2010-11-01, 03:31 AM
I like the idea of the pc's getting hit with the Dispel magic in the middle of a big public display. Good idea. As for the wars - how do you guys resolve battles in the back ground ?

Parra
2010-11-01, 04:11 AM
I'd hit them with the mages secretly realisng they are imposters and orchestrating a city wide rebellion to overthrow the ursurpers.

or alternatively have the mage/thief/cleric organisations realise what the group are doing and have them put the squeeze on the group to forward their own agend. Or get multiple organisations doing it at the same time, with conflicting goals.

Mastikator
2010-11-01, 04:39 AM
A conspiracy theorist sees through their illusions, dispells it in public and rises a revolution breaking the society into a dividing civil war, throwing everything into disarray. Suddenly they have no clue of what exactly they even control anymore. During this time the enemy makes a darring move to usurp power by siding with the revolution in hopes of becoming its leader (and succeeding).

That ought to put a potato in their exhaust pipe. :smallwink:

BridgeCity
2010-11-01, 07:34 AM
or alternatively have the mage/thief/cleric organisations realise what the group are doing and have them put the squeeze on the group to forward their own agend. Or get multiple organisations doing it at the same time, with conflicting goals.

I like that. Have like, two groups with different goals attempting to force the PC's to do things their way, and THEN throw in the third group who wants to re-establish the old rulers and are out to get the PCs.

Multi-faction inner-city war, tear the whole social structure down around the PCs and see how they handle it. Sounds like fun to me.

Godless_Paladin
2010-11-01, 10:03 AM
I like the idea of the pc's getting hit with the Dispel magic in the middle of a big public display. Good idea. As for the wars - how do you guys resolve battles in the back ground ?

You don't roll for the NPCs stabbing other NPCs. You just describe it like background scenery, or have predetermined die rolls for the NPCs. Effects constantly come into play and complicate the battlefield, like a Wall of Fire here or a summon there, etc. Play for objectives, with enemies "spawning" around the party while they delay. See also Heroes of Battle, Forge of War.

If you're doing it right, you should capture the full scale of warfare while resolving things just as efficiently as if you were running a standard combat.

And for the sake of all that is halfway decent, don't make it like a cookie cutter medieval skirmish with just a bunch of guys lined up with swords and shields. This is fantasyland. Use that. There's magic, monsters, siege tactics, all that. Go nuts.

valadil
2010-11-01, 10:11 AM
They are masquerading as the queen and her advisors using illusions and geass spells.

All they need is one competent enemy to cast dispel and then point fingers. Then the whole city will be turned against them, and possibly even ally with the enemy who dispelled their ruse. If you really want to make the PCs seethe, let them build up the city for a couple sessions first. Have them train up that army, and then have their enemy take it over and hunt them down.