PDA

View Full Version : Help for a DM running high-level



WarKitty
2010-11-01, 11:29 AM
I'm designing a campaign to run starting at level 11 and take the characters up to level 20. This is a fair bit higher than I have ever run or played (our other DM likes to stop at level 12, which I find rather frustrating). I think it would be an interesting experience to play that high.

For those of you who have run or played at that high level, what pitfalls do you have to watch for? How do players break the game? What needs to change to offer them challenges?

I'm using a pseudo-gestalt system as laid out in the Tier System of Classes post. Tier 1's are banned or nerfed, Tier 2's are played as normal, lower Tiers are gestalted to bring them up to speed. My players aren't out to intentionally break the game but do enjoy looking through books for cool stuff.

valadil
2010-11-01, 11:38 AM
The big difference for me is that physical challenges are no longer challenges. You have to come up with other ways to threaten the players.

For instance, I'm running a 4e game. The players are level 8. I gave them a hostage situation to deal with, where some bad guys were in the hayloft of a barn threatening to stab and hang some kids. 2 PCs teleported into the loft. Another sent one of the bad guys who was threatening a kid into the Feywild.

I'm okay with this. I knew I didn't have much longer to use this kind of challenge. I figure that was probably my last one for this particular party. It's better that they get to feel awesome for dominating this kind of challenge than if I'd realized it wouldn't be a threat and simply didn't use it.

Anyway, you have to come up with things that will challenge people who can bend physics. Assume multiple party members can teleport or fly at will. Assume they have other dirty tricks that you can't foresee. Come up with puzzles that will challenge those assumptions. Do so without using a low ceiling and magical rock that prevents teleportation and scrying. :-P

(Note that I'm being vague because I don't actually have a good idea of how to do those things. My games usually end around this level. This is also my first time trying to challenge players who win the usual physical challenges you'd see in a movie.)

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-01, 11:42 AM
At higher levels the game can become a rocket tag, in many cases a battle is decided by a single initiative check so keep that in mind.

I suggest you throw out the normal battle paradig, and make your battles more interesting not by adding stronger monsters, but by playing them intelligently and to their strenghts, let them use the battlefield, change it mid battle, try to keep your parties on their toes all the time.

Get a bigger scope in the plot of the game, at those levels just dungeon crawls are not that fun anymore, they have power that rivals the most powerful creatures in the world, so they should tackle threats that endanger the world.

Planehopping adventures can be great too, as they give you a bit more lleway in what you can send against them, also the vastly diffenent stuff that happens on other planes can take you players by surprise, and IMO/E trying to adapt to unexpectes situations, is extremely fun.

And I suggest you ask your players to try to keep to tier 3, they are usefull almost always, and are powerful enough to handle most threats (and maybe all of them if played intelligently) that you can throw against them, without breaking the game.

Hope that helps, and good luck (BTW I understand your pain about stopping at level 12.. it is annoying)

WarKitty
2010-11-01, 11:51 AM
At higher levels the game can become a rocket tag, in many cases a battle is decided by a single initiative check so keep that in mind.

I suggest you throw out the normal battle paradig, and make your battles more interesting not by adding stronger monsters, but by playing them intelligently and to their strenghts, let them use the battlefield, change it mid battle, try to keep your parties on their toes all the time.

Get a bigger scope in the plot of the game, at those levels just dungeon crawls are not that fun anymore, they have power that rivals the most powerful creatures in the world, so they should tackle threats that endanger the world.

Planehopping adventures can be great too, as they give you a bit more lleway in what you can send against them, also the vastly diffenent stuff that happens on other planes can take you players by surprise, and IMO/E trying to adapt to unexpectes situations, is extremely fun.

And I suggest you ask your players to try to keep to tier 3, they are usefull almost always, and are powerful enough to handle most threats (and maybe all of them if played intelligently) that you can throw against them, without breaking the game.

Hope that helps, and good luck (BTW I understand your pain about stopping at level 12.. it is annoying)

I'll keep that in mind. Helpfully my full Tier 2 players aren't optimizers. Got a nice blaster sorc going.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-01, 11:55 AM
If your player is going to blast all the time, I think you should give him the oportunity to blast to his heart will, but throw him situations when kill it with fire/electricity/force/acid/sonic (yes I know it is heresy) is not the best course of action, just to spice things up

WarKitty
2010-11-01, 12:07 PM
Here's the current party:

Sorcerer
Bard (divine cha-based caster, has healing spell-like abilities as a bonus)
Fighter/Barbarian going to a blackguard-esque homebrew prestige.
Rogue/Werewolf (werewolf gets nice stuff like increasing DR and NA)
Arcane Ranger (homebrew class focused on applying special properties to arrows)
2 players with no reported class yet. Both favor marital characters.