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randomhero00
2010-11-01, 06:00 PM
How to hide as many undead as possible without notice? Portable holes the best option? I figure, but thought I'd double check. Like maybe a pocket dimension or something...it has to last a looooong time and be opened up after a loooooong distance. I'm not a caster but finding access to them isn't too much trouble.

Ormagoden
2010-11-01, 06:14 PM
Get an epic spell caster to create a plane for you with Genesis.

Coidzor
2010-11-01, 06:15 PM
Where are you getting undead minions if you're not a caster?

randomhero00
2010-11-01, 06:17 PM
Where are you getting undead minions if you're not a caster?

Ok I'm a *caster* technically, but not the normal wizard or cleric spell list caster.

Not sure if I could get epic spellcasting.

Marnath
2010-11-01, 08:27 PM
Ok I'm a *caster* technically, but not the normal wizard or cleric spell list caster.

Not sure if I could get epic spellcasting.

You don't need to, as Genesis is a 9th level spell, not an epic spell.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-11-01, 08:32 PM
You don't need to, as Genesis is a 9th level spell, not an epic spell.

he is saying he doesnt get Genesis as he has a homebrew(?) spell list and isnt sure if he gets epic casting to replicate Genesis's effect

Marnath
2010-11-01, 08:36 PM
he is saying he doesnt get Genesis as he has a homebrew(?) spell list and isnt sure if he gets epic casting to replicate Genesis's effect

Which is irrelevant, as the suggestion was:


Get an epic spell caster to create a plane for you with Genesis.

But since it isn't epic, you can hire a not-epic caster to do it for you. Probably for less money than an epic spell would take.

Theodoriph
2010-11-01, 08:40 PM
Do what thousands of people already do...make them really small. Then put them in a bag.

Then you can carry your bag of undead miniatures around and fight them against other people's miniature armies!

In all seriousness, pokeballs are the answer. Although in D&D, they 're technically "figurines of wondrous power" that when you throw them on the ground and yell "Pikachu, I choose you" (or some other command word), that creature appears.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#figurinesofWondrousPower

You'll need your DMs cooperation to turn your undead into figurines...but the mechanic allows the DM to play with things like cost, duration etc. to keep this from getting broken.

Lapak
2010-11-01, 09:03 PM
Do what thousands of people already do...make them really small. Then put them in a bag.

Then you can carry your bag of undead miniatures around and fight them against other people's miniature armies!

In all seriousness, pokeballs are the answer.No, no, your first answer was the best one! Get a bag of holding, and fill it with zombie sparrows. Your enemies will never see it coming, you can fit a very large number in a bag, you can animate a LOT of them, and they have flight!

Marnath
2010-11-01, 09:06 PM
Use this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041231a), but make it two way.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-01, 09:10 PM
I say go bag of holding.

Marnath
2010-11-01, 09:14 PM
I say go bag of holding.

That has a weight limit. 1500 pounds/250 cubic feet for the very largest one. You can only put 14-15 zombies in one of those.

Jack_Simth
2010-11-01, 09:17 PM
Use Shades (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shades.htm) for Trap the Soul (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trapTheSoul.htm). Takes some time (and a lot of 9th level spell slots... although this can be mitigated with certain tricks), but you convert all your zombies/skeletons/minions of *almost* any stripe into little itty-bitty shadow gems, which can be stored as readily as you'd store any rocks - which you then break to open.

What are your resources? Answer that, and we can tell you what's feasible and what's not.

Edit:
If you have your own demiplane, a Cubic Gate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#cubicGate) keyed to it would do the job - open a portal to your hordes (note: hordes need to be approximately sized for the demiplane - so that when you open your portal to it, no matter where the portal ends up, your hordes are there)

Edit 2: And, of course, if you can get (and use) a certain 9th level scroll (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) or a certain 9th level Powerstone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm), well, you've got your own demiplane... and just with two items, that don't rely overly much on the specific character's build, just wealth (lots of it, though).

Marnath
2010-11-01, 09:50 PM
That gave me the idea for a reduced price Cubic Gate, that only goes to the material and your demiplane. It would be coin shaped, and probably cost less because it's more limited.

Uncertainty
2010-11-01, 10:17 PM
No, no, your first answer was the best one! Get a bag of holding, and fill it with zombie sparrows. Your enemies will never see it coming, you can fit a very large number in a bag, you can animate a LOT of them, and they have flight!

Can you possibly make some skeletons, shrink their bones, and stack them all neatly in a portable hole? How many could you fit then?

RS14
2010-11-01, 10:21 PM
That has a weight limit. 1500 pounds/250 cubic feet for the very largest one. You can only put 14-15 zombies in one of those.

If you can create shadows, which are weightless, you can have them all grapple each other (so they fit in 125 cubic feet) and then shove them into the bag.

Raging Gene Ray
2010-11-01, 10:26 PM
There is a Sixth level spell from Complete Mage called Smokey Confinement. You touch a creature, and they turn into smoke and are kept in a convenient bottle (which must be worth 100 gp at least)

You can use it for a SoD on an unwilling creature (Fort negates), but also as a Pokeball spell for willing subjects.

But you may not be able to find a willing caster...you could homebrew some magic item that duplicates its effect...personally, I'd try to get my DM to approve some sort of portable Mage's Magnificent Mansion. Either that, or just get a pair of Ring Gates, send your undead army to some extradimensional safehouse, leave one of the rings with them, and activate the ring you have wherever you wish to unleash them.

Make sure it's another place where some Necromancer can't steal them, or Warriors of Virtue can't hunt them for XP, or wandering monsters can't just kill them for the marrow in their bones...in fact, you probably would do good to just invest in your own private demiplane.


Can you possibly make some skeletons, shrink their bones, and stack them all neatly in a portable hole? How many could you fit then?

Reminds me of the campaign I'm in right now. The halfling rogue and the Necromancer/Pale Master decided to put a bunch of animated skeletal hands (looted from the scenes of destruction we frequently pass) in a bag of holding, and unleash them like a swarm of grappling, pinching, rotting death upon our enemies.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-01, 10:26 PM
That has a weight limit. 1500 pounds/250 cubic feet for the very largest one. You can only put 14-15 zombies in one of those.

Upgrade undead: get some death knights, vampires, etc.

Grommen
2010-11-01, 10:27 PM
In reading this title I am suddenly inspired to make small "plastic" golem army men and put them all into a Bag of Holding.

GENIUS!

Coidzor
2010-11-01, 10:42 PM
Can you possibly make some skeletons, shrink their bones, and stack them all neatly in a portable hole? How many could you fit then?

Permanency on Shrink Item on the skeletons before animating them.

Lets you concentrate your HD in a few, really big/valuable/strong undead and still have 'em portable, and even encourages this since it isn't worth it to do so for mook undead.

SamsDisciple
2010-11-01, 11:55 PM
In reading this title I am suddenly inspired to make small "plastic" golem army men and put them all into a Bag of Holding.

GENIUS!

Please oh please make them green!

As to the original question I would like to know how many undead we are dealing with and how fast you wish to unleash them because many bags of holding means an action per 15 zombies, ring gates means actions for each zombie to squeeze through. You might be able to homebrew a summon spell since most summons are of a random creature but this is summoning a "possesion" also for the wealthy I love the idea of having "skeletons in the closet"where the closet has a portable hole on each wall filled with skeleton and the ring gate on the inside of the door. I mean what serious paladin is going to check the sweet little old halfling grandmas broom closet for a horde of skeletons?

Coidzor
2010-11-02, 12:00 AM
Indeed, actual ceiling number of undead is important for cost analysis, after all.

Gaiyamato
2010-11-02, 12:09 AM
Use this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20041231a), but make it two way.

No need to make it two-way. Simply ferry the undead army to Durakistad and they will sit in stasis when you leave. When you need them you can transport them all back out in the blink of an eye. even better if you combine it with a scroll of Time-Stop.
Your enemies blink and they are now facing wall-to-wall undead packed in like sardines.

The only issue would be actually getting the coin.

DragonOfUndeath
2010-11-02, 12:14 AM
ask your DM and he would probably just send you on a quest or give it too you.

Coidzor
2010-11-02, 12:38 AM
No need to make it two-way. Simply ferry the undead army to Durakistad and they will sit in stasis when you leave. When you need them you can transport them all back out in the blink of an eye. even better if you combine it with a scroll of Time-Stop.
Your enemies blink and they are now facing wall-to-wall undead packed in like sardines.

The only issue would be actually getting the coin.

Best of all, Undead can't suffer wisdom drain, so they can't be permanently stuck there. :smallcool:

LordBlades
2010-11-02, 04:23 AM
Enveloping Pit from MIC. It's basicly a 50 ft cubical bag of holding without wieght limits.

You could use it to stack 1000 medium undead, 125 large,15 huge or any combination of them.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-11-02, 04:34 AM
Enveloping Pit from MIC. It's basicly a 50 ft cubical bag of holding without wieght limits.

Swift deployment might be an issue, though. Pulling out your thousand zombies out of a massive, deep hole (designed to be difficult to climb out of, as a pit trap).

LordBlades
2010-11-02, 04:36 AM
Swift deployment might be an issue, though. Pulling out your thousand zombies out of a massive, deep hole (designed to be difficult to climb out of, as a pit trap).

you can build stuff like ladders and such inside the enveloping pit to help with swift deployment.

Gaiyamato
2010-11-02, 05:48 AM
I think the coin is swifter.. and going on a quest to find it could be fun. lol.

But the pit is definately easier to obtain.
hmmm.. I'm having ideas...

Jack_Simth
2010-11-02, 05:58 AM
If you can create shadows, which are weightless, you can have them all grapple each other (so they fit in 125 cubic feet) and then shove them into the bag.
Sadly, Incorporeal critters can't grapple. It's listed in the subtype description.
get a pair of Ring Gates, send your undead army to some extradimensional safehouse, leave one of the rings with them, and activate the ring you have wherever you wish to unleash them.Standard Ring Gates are limited to the same plane, and have a per-day weight limit. This can be made to work (minus the extradimensional space), but you'll need Tiny undead to get through easily (otherwise, it's an Escape Artist check... and it's funny how most undead don't have that as a class skill) and you'll only be able to get so many through (based on weight). The Cubic Gate has no per-day limits....

jiriku
2010-11-02, 08:41 AM
Incorporeal creatures also don't get in each other's way. Stack as many shadows, wraiths, ghosts, and spectres in your bag of holding as you want.

IMLC, I let the dread necromancer stitch his bag of holding into the lining of his cloak. He would dramatically open the cloak, and his undead came rushing out. The awesome level in the room increased audibly every time he did this.

Marnath
2010-11-02, 12:53 PM
Swift deployment might be an issue, though. Pulling out your thousand zombies out of a massive, deep hole (designed to be difficult to climb out of, as a pit trap).

If it works like it's cousin, the portable hole, you can slap it on a vertical wall and they can walk out horizontally.