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TechnOkami
2010-11-01, 10:10 PM
The concept of this homebrew is basically a fusion of the monk and barbarian classes with specific use by lycanthropes only.

To put it more blunt, its like an expansion of Fist of the Forest, with lycanthropes only.

I was thinking of adding rage as per the Barbarian, AC as per FoF (constitution based) and the monk AC (possibly switching it to natural AC), unarmed strike progression, natural attack progression, maaaaaybe fast healing equal to your con bonus, unarmored land speed increase, the falling abilities of the Monk, a flurry of blows variant...

...and that's all I've got.

...help please?

Sir_Chivalry
2010-11-01, 11:08 PM
The concept of this homebrew is basically a fusion of the monk and barbarian classes with specific use by lycanthropes only.

To put it more blunt, its like an expansion of Fist of the Forest, with lycanthropes only.

I was thinking of adding rage as per the Barbarian, AC as per FoF (constitution based) and the monk AC (possibly switching it to natural AC), unarmed strike progression, natural attack progression, maaaaaybe fast healing equal to your con bonus, unarmored land speed increase, the falling abilities of the Monk, a flurry of blows variant...

...and that's all I've got.

...help please?

I'll start with the obvious.

How many levels do you want?

Why would anyone not take this class, since it's a monk only better?

TechnOkami
2010-11-01, 11:14 PM
I'll start with the obvious.

How many levels do you want?

Why would anyone not take this class, since it's a monk only better?

Um, full up 20 level class.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-11-01, 11:15 PM
Um, full up 20 level class.

Okay, so it's a base class?

Nihilarian
2010-11-01, 11:21 PM
Have you considered making it Lycanthrope Substitution Levels? To my knowledge, there are no Lycanthrope Substitution Levels - but they are a race, so it should be possible. Trade Uncanny Dodge and Trap Sense for Unarmored Con to AC at 2nd level and extra bonuses to AC (based off of the monk progression). At 5th level they treat Natural Weapons as 1 size larger, etc.

The problem with a completely making a new class is, well, scope. I can't think of any other Base Class that limits the races you are allowed to be. That's why it's completely within the rules to play a Rogue Elephant. I honestly think you'll get a better deal trying to make the aforementioned LSL. Not even mentioning the energy that could end up getting spent to make it usable.

Side note: do you want the class to distinguish between lycanthropes? Like Bear Lycanthropes get Bear Hug abilities (gotta love Improved Grab... though you probably get that one anyway...)

Side side note: This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVariantTotemB arbarian) might at least give you some ideas. This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) may help also.


EDIT: The sub levels I mentioned would be for Barbarian.

TechnOkami
2010-11-01, 11:22 PM
Okay, so it's a base class?

Yes, that is correct.

Realms of Chaos
2010-11-01, 11:30 PM
Have you ever heard of the sohei class from oriental adventures? It sounds more or less like what you want:

It's a martial artist who has a rage-like ability that pumps up Str, Dex, Speed, and grants flurry of blows. It gets the barbarian's damage reduction, mettle, a couple of bonus feats, and even some spellcasting ont he side. A bit on the weaker side but that shouldn't really come up considering that the player would already be a freaking lycanthrope.

If you don't want spellcasting, the class would be balanced if you traded it for the unarmed strike and AC bonuses of the monk, a greater ki rage at 10th level (more dex/con and speed and better flurry of blows), and a superior ki rage at 20th level (more dex/con and speed and no longer fatigued after use)

Sir_Chivalry
2010-11-01, 11:30 PM
Have you considered making it Lycanthrope Substitution Levels? To my knowledge, there are no Lycanthrope Substitution Levels - but they are a race, so it should be possible. Trade Uncanny Dodge and Trap Sense for Unarmored Con to AC at 2nd level and extra bonuses to AC (based off of the monk progression). At 5th level they treat Natural Weapons as 1 size larger, etc.

The problem with a completely making a new class is, well, scope. I can't think of any other Base Class that limits the races you are allowed to be. That's why it's completely within the rules to play a Rogue Elephant. I honestly think you'll get a better deal trying to make the aforementioned LSL. Not even mentioning the energy that could end up getting spent to make it usable.

Side note: do you want the class to distinguish between lycanthropes? Like Bear Lycanthropes get Bear Hug abilities (gotta love Improved Grab... though you probably get that one anyway...)

Side side note: This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVariantTotemB arbarian) might at least give you some ideas. This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) may help also.


EDIT: The sub levels I mentioned would be for Barbarian.

Consider this.

TechnOkami
2010-11-01, 11:42 PM
K, well, I see what you're saying, and to be honest the lycanthropy thing was an idea I just had today, the original basically combined the unarmed strike and natural attack into a single attack... ...which after several months of denial I finally realized would be too powerful.

...so then I thought: "why not give him progression in both, but not include the natural and unarmed attack fusion ability", which in a sense works. the lycanthrope character relies on their claws (or other natural attack) while in their alternate form, and then unarmed strikes when not.

And I'm not up for substitution levels honestly, i'd rather make a new base class.

Nihilarian
2010-11-01, 11:56 PM
K, well, I see what you're saying, and to be honest the lycanthropy thing was an idea I just had today, the original basically combined the unarmed strike and natural attack into a single attack... ...which after several months of denial I finally realized would be too powerful.

...so then I thought: "why not give him progression in both, but not include the natural and unarmed attack fusion ability", which in a sense works. the lycanthrope character relies on their claws (or other natural attack) while in their alternate form, and then unarmed strikes when not.

And I'm not up for substitution levels honestly, i'd rather make a new base class.

While I still think you would be better off with Sub levels (or a PrC available to Lycanthropes right off the bat), I'm up for helping make the base class.

but again, do you want to differentiate between different lycanthropes, or just a general lycanthrope class? If you don't give the class abilities that depend on the specific lycanthropes strengths, you run the risk of making a fairly bland class, mechanically. At best.

Since you are getting natural attacks (and you just want the class to do so much...), I recommend 3/4 BAB class. The Natural Attacks will make up the difference, and it gives you a bit more leeway as far as abilities go.

Finally: You're going to have to decide early on in development how you want items to affect the class. Since it will be an Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack Class that gets Con while unarmored, it seems to follow that the class will eschew materials of all kinds - which makes it MUCH more difficult to balance.

Realms of Chaos
2010-11-02, 12:26 AM
K, well, I see what you're saying, and to be honest the lycanthropy thing was an idea I just had today, the original basically combined the unarmed strike and natural attack into a single attack... ...which after several months of denial I finally realized would be too powerful.

...so then I thought: "why not give him progression in both, but not include the natural and unarmed attack fusion ability", which in a sense works. the lycanthrope character relies on their claws (or other natural attack) while in their alternate form, and then unarmed strikes when not.

And I'm not up for substitution levels honestly, i'd rather make a new base class.

As lycanthropes have both racial HD and level adjustment, you'd never be able to finish a 20-level base class short of epic levels. Due to a combination fo this and the aforementioned narrow scope of the ideal class, why not make this into a prestig eclass that a lycanthrope can take from "level 1".

Also, what exactly is it that you want here? All that I'm getting so far is
1. It must have rage.
2. It must advance both unarmed strikes and damage from natural weapons.
3. Must be kind of monkish.

Can you be a bit more specific?

Zeta Kai
2010-11-02, 06:53 AM
And I'm not up for substitution levels honestly, i'd rather make a new base class.


...a What, in search of a Why...

Eldan
2010-11-02, 07:36 AM
Why not just make a substitution?
Start with monk, replace Flurry of Blows at level one with Rapidstrike as a bonus feat and Improved Unarmed Strike with Improved Natural Attack. Pretty good, but basically what you want.

Cidolfas
2010-11-02, 09:34 AM
To be honest, the base monk and barbarian are both sort of, uh, poor. Neither one is very powerful (or balanced, I could say, since they are for the most part abominably weak without extensive optimization and each subject to very severe limitations. Gestalting them won't necessarily fix the problems and give you a balanced class. I would think a pure shapeshifter would be much more in line with a lycanthrope class and could be more powerful.

If you insist on that premise, just keep in mind that there are a lot of disappointing things about most classes even according to a Tier 3 standard (which is touted as the norm here). I would seriously recommend a homebrew class that redesigns the mechanics from the monk and barbarian into things that were not quite so flawed (not hindering the rage with a per day and once per encounter limit, for example).

Tael
2010-11-02, 05:01 PM
So, I bored and inspired, so I made this rough draft. Ability descriptions will be up shortly.


True Werewolf

Alignment: Any Chaotic
Hit Die: 1d8

Class Skills:
Class Skills
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
AC Bonus|
Claw Size Increase|
Fast Movement

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Fast Movement, Furious Strikes, Lycan Rage/Shifting|
+0|
+0 Effective Size Catagories|
+10 ft.

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Uncanny Dodge|
+0|
+0 Effective Size Catagories|
+10 ft.

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Imbued Claws (Magic)|
+1|
+0 Effective Size Catagories|
+10 ft.

4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|DR 2/Silver, Slow Fall|
+1|
+1 Effective Size Catagories|
+10 ft.

5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Improved Uncanny Dodge|
+1|
+1 Effective Size Catagories|
+20 ft.

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Evasion|
+2|
+1 Effective Size Catagories|
+20 ft.

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Lycan Healing 1|
+2|
+1 Effective Size Catagories|
+20 ft.

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|DR 4/Silver|
+2|
+2 Effective Size Catagories|
+20 ft.

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3|Feral Mind|
+3|
+2 Effective Size Catagories|
+30 ft.

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Beast in the Blood (need a better name)|
+3|
+2 Effective Size Catagories|
+30 ft.

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3|Greater Transformation, Lycan Healing 2|
+3|
+2 Effective Size Catagories|
+30 ft.

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|DR 6/Silver|
+4|
+3 Effective Size Catagories|
+30 ft.

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4|Lighting Pounce|
+4|
+3 Effective Size Catagories|
+40 ft.

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Up the Walls|
+4|
+3 Effective Size Catagories|
+40 ft.

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5|Lycan Healing 3|
+5|
+3 Effective Size Catagories|
+40 ft.

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Adamantine Claws, DR 8/Silver|
+5|
+4 Effective Size Catagories|
+40 ft.

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Tireless Rage|
+5|
+4 Effective Size Catagories|
+50 ft.

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|One with the Beast|
+6|
+4 Effective Size Catagories|
+50 ft.

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|Lycan Healing 4|
+6|
+4 Effective Size Catagories|
+50 ft.

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|DR 10/Silver|
+6|
+5 Effective Size Catagories|
+50 ft.

[/table]

Lycan Rage/Shifting (Ex)
A True Werewolf gains its combat prowess through a transformation, an intensely painful re-working of its body into a fearsome beast. During the transformation, a Werewolf gains claws appropriate to its size, gains +4 Strength, +2 Dex, and +2 Con, and add its Constitution modifier to its AC as an Armor Bonus. Shifting takes a move action to complete and can only be done when a Werewolf feels threatened, and lasts until it seems all nearby threats are gone. In any event, a Werewolf that says in its Lycan form becomes fatigued after ten minutes of transformation, exhausted after an hour, and falls unconscious and reverts back to its original form after 2 hours. This fatigue can be healed after five minutes of rest, but the exhaustion requires eight hours of sleep.
(I’m not sure how long the Shift should be able to last for, and it’s an armor bonus to stop people from wearing armor while shifting. Still thinking of fluff. Maybe werewolves really don’t like armor and rip it off…)

Furious Strikes (Ex)
A True Werewolf combines it’s combat knowledge with its animalistic fury enabling it to get extra attacks from higher BAB. (e.g. A Werewolf with BAB 12 makes 2 attack at full BAB, 1 at -5, and one at -10) He may also attack with both of his claws (but not make Iteratives) at the end of a charge, or as a Standard Action.

Fast Movement (Ex)
The Werewolf gets the listed bonus to its movement speed as long as he is Shifted, or half that bonus if he is not.

Imbued Claws (Su)
The Werewolf treats his claws as magical for the purposes of piercing DR.

DR X/Silver (Su)
The Werewolf gains the listed Damage Reduction as long as he is Shifted.

Slow Fall (Su)
A Werewolf is extremely adept at stopping its fall, reducing his effective fall distance by 5 times his level if he is adjacent to a wall, or half that if he is not adjacent to a wall. This ability only functions while Shifted.

Lycan Healing (Su)
As long as the Werewolf is Shifted, he gains Fast Healing 1

Feral Mind (Ex)
A Werewolf’s mind is volatile and ferocious, making it hard for mental magic to take hold.
A Werewolf gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against Enchantment spells.

Greater Transformation (Ex)
As he matures, a Werewolf’s transformation also becomes more severe. At eleventh level, whenever a True Werewolf uses his Lycan Rage, he gains +6 Strength, +4 Dex, and +4 Con.


Lightning Pounce (Ex)
While Shifted, a Werewolf may jump up to half of his speed as a Swift action, once every four rounds.

Up the Walls (Ex)
The Werewolf gains a Climb speed of 10 ft.

One With the Beast (Ex)
A Werewolf may now control when he Shifts, and may stop or start a transformation at any time.

Unstoppable Transformation (Ex)
The Werewolf is now the ultimate killing machine, gaining +8 Strength, +6 Dex, and +6 Con when he shifts. He also gains a Bite attack one size category larger than his Claws, and gains Pounce.

TechnOkami
2010-11-02, 05:20 PM
Oh.. oh wow... thank you... *editedit*

Actually no, screw the edits! I think I more or less like this class... except for a little change needed for the actual fundamentals of the werewolf transformation... but yeah, it's more or less what I'm looking for, thank you. I'll have to make a slight addition because my own character is a lycanthrope, and already has shifting abilities, so it would be more like he's using the class' wererage ability as per the barbarian's rage.

Thank you all for helping!