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Aust Nailo
2010-11-02, 04:00 AM
A friend of mine is considering starting an epic campaign and I've been thinking about playing as a Duskblade, I've always been a fan of mixing spells and magic. I've noticed that Duskblades don't get much of anything after level 20, so I've been researching ways to expand my casting with full BAB preferably.

I had one idea of multiclassing Sorcerer than taking Abjurant Champion and similar gish type classes to expand Sorcerer. Thoughts?

Myth
2010-11-02, 04:06 AM
Duskblades are sub-par when it comes to Epic games. You're better off making a regular arcane gish that gets 9th level spells. Although WITH 9th level spells you won't swing your weapon in combat (waste of an action). So you'll realise you'd be better off by making a full caster.

Make a Wizard instead (yes the trademark GITP response)

Foryn Gilnith
2010-11-02, 04:14 AM
I've noticed that Duskblades don't get much of anything after level 20

What do Duskblades get at all? The only thing normal gishes might have trouble with is Arcane Channeling (which is admittedly awesome). Just play a normal gish. If you're really going to play a Duskblade, it's inadvisable to start all the way over with a new casting progression. Stick something like incarnum or binder on top instead.


Although WITH 9th level spells you won't swing your weapon in combat (waste of an action).

Even if Batman-God is carrying the encounter with CC, in the end you need hit point damage to win. Saves/immunities are too high. And fighting is a more socially acceptable source of DPS than metamagic orbs.

Ernir
2010-11-02, 04:26 AM
I had one idea of multiclassing Sorcerer than taking Abjurant Champion and similar gish type classes to expand Sorcerer. Thoughts?

This is a much better idea.

Myth
2010-11-02, 04:43 AM
Even if Batman-God is carrying the encounter with CC, in the end you need hit point damage to win. Saves/immunities are too high.

Hitpoint damage. Leave that to the Cleric and Druid. Or Planar Bind some Planetars. Or Gate in some Great Wyrm Dragons.


And fighting is a more socially acceptable source of DPS than metamagic orbs. Says who?

Jan Mattys
2010-11-02, 05:02 AM
Says who?

For example, answering "make a wizard instead" in a thread specifically asking for Duskblade options is socially rude.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-11-02, 05:04 AM
Hitpoint damage. Leave that to the Cleric and Druid.
Or leave it to the gish, and let the other wizards do all this wizarding bollocks?


Or Planar Bind some Planetars. Or Gate in some Great Wyrm Dragons.
Says who?
Do you really have a group that sees planar binding and gate on the same level as glitterdust, stun ray, and walls? In my (limited) experience, while the Ubercharger and the Mailman are equally egregious, a semi-ubercharger is more tolerated than a semi-mailman.

Myth
2010-11-02, 05:19 AM
For example, answering "make a wizard instead" in a thread specifically asking for Duskblade options is socially rude.

It's not rude this is the answer i got when i asked for an optimized melee vampiress build. GITP has a way of telling you to roll a Wizard in the first three replies to any topic asking for an actual viable build. In this particular case I actually think a Wizard will be better for Epic and I'm telling OP what will probably happen due to my own experience. Wasting a full round action on 5 attacks when you can cast a 9th level spell is just silly and if the notion of attacking things with a stick at Epic levels seems nice he should at the very least, head over to ToB with added feats and classes from other books.

tl;dr it seems cool and fun to have a warrior mage and Epic seems to make it work better then low levels. However DnD does not support warrior mages by virtue of making them just crippled mages because there is only so much time to act in and combat ends in a few rounds.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-11-02, 05:34 AM
GITP has a way of telling you to roll a Wizard in the first three replies to any topic asking for an actual viable build.
Do you have proof besides one piece of anecdotal evidence, or are you just selectively remembering the threads you say with those replies and ignoring the others? Because looking at that thread you seem to have had your opinions already fully formed, which makes me suspect cognitive bias.


Wasting a full round action on 5 attacks when you can cast a 9th level spell is just silly
How much damage do ninth-level spells do? 48d6+16d4 save for half via summoned storm elementals with Rapid Spell is 208 average damage for a full-round action? (save for 104) 40 damage per attack (or less, with more attacks) is plausible for a near-epic gish; it doesn't come as easily as right-out-of-the-box Storm Elementals but you can get to the point that your full-round action beats out the spells. And if your enemy saves, your gish should be able to beat that DPR.

Myth
2010-11-02, 10:25 AM
Do you have proof besides one piece of anecdotal evidence, or are you just selectively remembering the threads you say with those replies and ignoring the others? Because looking at that thread you seem to have had your opinions already fully formed, which makes me suspect cognitive bias. I would say all the proof is within these threads. Read up more ones asking for optimization or for a character concept. I don't have the time to dig up specifics, the search function should accommodate you just fine.



How much damage do ninth-level spells do? 48d6+16d4 save for half via summoned storm elementals with Rapid Spell is 208 average damage for a full-round action? (save for 104) 40 damage per attack (or less, with more attacks) is plausible for a near-epic gish; it doesn't come as easily as right-out-of-the-box Storm Elementals but you can get to the point that your full-round action beats out the spells. And if your enemy saves, your gish should be able to beat that DPR.
I can have a lower level spell cast from a 9th level slot deal enough damage to turn the Tarrasque inside out. This is a lost cause you'd be fighting for if you are trying to convince me (or other playgrounders) that melee is superior to magic in 3.5. Especially in Epic. Especially when that melee comes from a Gish rather than a ToB class or something equivalent.

Pechvarry
2010-11-02, 02:30 PM
How epic is this? I once plotted out the skeleton of a Duskblade/wizard/abjurant champion/ultimate magus build, which was fun to build. Of course, you use the abjurant champion capstone to increase your wizard caster level, and you'd probably end up with practiced spellcaster x2. But the Duskmagus wouldn't be any fun at level 22, for example.