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Balor01
2010-11-02, 05:28 AM
My PC-s (lvl 6) are soon to come upon a temple of serpents and I would like for you guys to help me with something. In my generic world, serpents were the most ancient and most wise/powerful/omnipotent users of magic, who's downfall was a consequence of global cooling and appearance of dragons. But as these magic geniuses go, they really know how to do magic. I would like to represent this by breaking some spells to a point where players will actually get mad over me (DM) using spells wrong, only to find, this is "ye olde magicka". An example is an ability to cast in AMF.

So I was thinking if you guys could give me a list od a few spells you like the most with an addition of that "one special change". Say, at least one such spell per level? I actually do not know which such combinations might be fun (or rage inspiring), but I am sure GitP has some fine ideas :smallbiggrin:

mabriss lethe
2010-11-03, 02:37 AM
You could take the idea in a different direction.

Instead of tweaking out existing spell effects, Have these old schoolers be Chaos Mages (http://grandwiki.wikidot.com/qcmg) They can then do pretty much whatever your evil little heart can think to do as the situation demands it.

akma
2010-11-03, 02:51 AM
Fire spells that make the players catch on fire.
Unusal areas for spells.
Animating the room itself.

Fizban
2010-11-03, 03:37 AM
I never played 2e, but I hear there's lots of shenanigans from back then like what you're looking for. Lightning bolts bounce off walls and can hit targets multiple times if you know your geometry, Fireballs who's volume spreads until it is consumed instead of hitting an invisible wall after 20' radius, and so on. Darkness that blocks vision instead of just making everything shadowy.

You could use some 3e versions of spells too. The old Flame Arrow also had a direct damage option like Scorching Ray with reflex saves, 3.0 Haste gave you an entire standard action, and... well 3.0 Haste is enough really. Harm spells that drop you to 1d4 hp no matter how many you had before, and also give them Heal spells that heal to full no matter what.

You could use Celerity with another spell that makes you immune to daze, like Favor of the Martyr, along with shenanigans to let a Wizard even cast FoM or with the Quick Recovery feat from Lords of Madness to shrug off the daze with a move action (leaving their standard intact).

For unfair interpretations and rule breaking, you could use the classic, "I suggest you obey all of my commands," or the hilarious "I teleport a sword into her heart!" A Time Stop that automatically delays any spell until it ends (which is what it looks like it says to me anyway!) so you don't have to use Delayed Blast Fireball. Contingent spells that aren't determined beforehand (like a contingent Spell Immunity to whatever spell was just cast at you), and multiple contingencies. Multiple copies of any spell that says you can't have more than 1 active (lots of divine spells do this) and personal range spells cast on allies. Summoning things in middair above player's heads.

Vemynal
2010-11-03, 04:11 AM
simple: the ability to use 'epic spells' without being 1) epic leveled and 2) having to roll to make them succeed.

Obviously this then falls to the Dm how powerful they want the character to be

mootoall
2010-11-03, 09:18 AM
I like the ability to use the most broken 3.0 and 2.0 AD&D spells. Not only are they the broken, slightly different spells, but they're also from the past /spooky voice. So yeah, it works from a metagame perspective too, which I think your players will appreciate once you tell them!

grarrrg
2010-11-03, 10:26 AM
I like the ability to use the most broken 3.0 and 2.0 AD&D spells. Not only are they the broken, slightly different spells, but they're also from the past /spooky voice. So yeah, it works from a metagame perspective too, which I think your players will appreciate once you tell them!

Agreed.
8
9
1

Sandman
2010-11-03, 11:18 AM
3.0 haste?:smallwink:

Greenish
2010-11-03, 11:25 AM
Invisible Sculpted spells are always fun.

Invisible 120' line of Solid Fog.

LibraryOgre
2010-11-03, 11:30 AM
I never played 2e, but I hear there's lots of shenanigans from back then like what you're looking for. Lightning bolts bounce off walls and can hit targets multiple times if you know your geometry, Fireballs who's volume spreads until it is consumed instead of hitting an invisible wall after 20' radius, and so on. Darkness that blocks vision instead of just making everything shadowy.

I really like that suggestion. They're so ancient of magic users, they use spells from OTHER EDITIONS. Uncapped Magic Missiles (i.e. you get 1 missile per two levels until you run out of levels). Pull a reverse Burlew (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html), and point out that they don't get a save, since they don't have a save vs. paralyzation, poison or death.

"Oops, you don't have a system shock chance! I guess you fail."

Balor01
2010-11-19, 07:18 AM
This is awesome. I really like your input :smallbiggrin:

Warlawk
2010-11-19, 02:41 PM
There are some great ideas in this thread for sure. I like the idea of grabbing old 2e spells if you have the books around.

If you just want to do mean things to them with 3.X rules...

Arcane thesis Ray of Enfeeblement/Clumsiness empower, split ray, chain spell (easy metamagic). 2 empowered rays per target as a 3rd level spell.

Maybe to represent these guys being the ultimate spellcasters you could give each of them two bonus metamagic feats or something like that. Sudden Metamagic could be a good option here. Or look at the Incantrix PrC in the forgotten realms players guide and give them a couple of those class abilities. The ability to steal persistent spells from PCs would be pretty funny and a good representation of these guys being the masters of magic.

faceroll
2010-11-19, 03:18 PM
In my generic world, serpents were the most ancient and most wise/powerful/omnipotent users of magic, who's downfall was a consequence of global cooling and appearance of dragons.

What would piss me off the most would be something as lame as global cooling killing a magical society that has ready access to spells like this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/endureElements.htm).

Warlawk
2010-11-19, 03:27 PM
In my generic world, serpents were the most ancient and most wise/powerful/omnipotent users of magic, who's downfall was a consequence of global cooling and appearance of dragons.


What would piss me off the most would be something as lame as global cooling killing a magical society that has ready access to spells like this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/endureElements.htm).

Bolded for emphasis. I hear dragons can cast dispel magic. If you're throwing all your resources into a war with dragons, surviving in a climate that is quickly turning fatal to your race can be a bit rough.

faceroll
2010-11-19, 03:32 PM
Bolded for emphasis. I hear dragons can cast dispel magic. If you're throwing all your resources into a war with dragons, surviving in a climate that is quickly turning fatal to your race can be a bit rough.

There are so many spells and items that control the weather, or protect you from it, that a highly magical race shouldn't really be threatened by anything short of a Fimbulwinter. And that's not global cooling so much as global freezing.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-19, 03:42 PM
Think this might be appropriate


A nice way to do this is a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10

"I'm terribly sorry for what I'm about to do..."

Spells: Fimbulwinter

Metamagic: Fell Drain, Extend Spell, Flash Frost Spell, Energy Substitution (Cold), and Lord of the Uttercold

Metamagic Reducer: Arcane Thesis (Fimbulwinter).

Maximize Spell and Empower Spell are gained from Circle Magic

Fimbulwinter (8)+Fell Drain (+2-1-1)+Flash Frost Spell (+1-1)+Extend Spell (+1-1)+Lord of the Uttercold (+0)

Energy Substitution (Cold) is required for Lord of the Uttercold.

Make sure you've raised your CL to 40.

Wait until winter. Cast Frostfell to drop the temperature so that it's a cold climate, for a +10 to your d20 roll for the effects of Fimbulwinter.

Cast Fimbulwinter. You might want Spell Thematics to make this even more epic. Maybe have it look like a wolf is eating the sun, or some such.

10 minutes later, an area 40 miles in radius, up to 20 miles away from where you cast this, is in the depth of winter.

But this winter is different... for one thing, it will last for at least 100 weeks, or up to 144 weeks at most. For the people that don't want to do the math, that's a span from a little less than 2 years to a bit less than 3 years.

For another, its cold is infused with the deadly embrace of the Negative Energy plane. Every six seconds, regardless of the actual conditions within the circle, everything takes 8 cold damage and 8 negative energy damage. And everything damaged gets dealt a negative level. Wights begin to rise within a day of the start of this storm.

And the winter's conditions themselves are a horror. The depth of the snow can range from 9 inches to 10 feet of snow. And the winds...

Well they can be anywhere from 11+ to 31+ miles per hour.


Original Thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9892.msg334809#msg334809)

Erom
2010-11-19, 03:52 PM
Plus, they obviously didn't ALL die out, given that there are a few of them to fight the PC's next session!

Warlawk
2010-11-19, 03:53 PM
There are so many spells and items that control the weather, or protect you from it, that a highly magical race shouldn't really be threatened by anything short of a Fimbulwinter. And that's not global cooling so much as global freezing.

The OP is talking about a highly magical race that is an appropriate challenge for level 6 pcs. So I think you're looking at a much higher power spectrum than this race fits into. That distinctly limits the access to large scale weather control and such, doubly so when you're dealing with hostile dragons.

faceroll
2010-11-19, 04:01 PM
Think this might be appropriate


A nice way to do this is a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10

"I'm terribly sorry for what I'm about to do..."

Spells: Fimbulwinter

Metamagic: Fell Drain, Extend Spell, Flash Frost Spell, Energy Substitution (Cold), and Lord of the Uttercold

Metamagic Reducer: Arcane Thesis (Fimbulwinter).

Maximize Spell and Empower Spell are gained from Circle Magic

Fimbulwinter (8)+Fell Drain (+2-1-1)+Flash Frost Spell (+1-1)+Extend Spell (+1-1)+Lord of the Uttercold (+0)

Energy Substitution (Cold) is required for Lord of the Uttercold.

Make sure you've raised your CL to 40.

Wait until winter. Cast Frostfell to drop the temperature so that it's a cold climate, for a +10 to your d20 roll for the effects of Fimbulwinter.

Cast Fimbulwinter. You might want Spell Thematics to make this even more epic. Maybe have it look like a wolf is eating the sun, or some such.

10 minutes later, an area 40 miles in radius, up to 20 miles away from where you cast this, is in the depth of winter.

But this winter is different... for one thing, it will last for at least 100 weeks, or up to 144 weeks at most. For the people that don't want to do the math, that's a span from a little less than 2 years to a bit less than 3 years.

For another, its cold is infused with the deadly embrace of the Negative Energy plane. Every six seconds, regardless of the actual conditions within the circle, everything takes 8 cold damage and 8 negative energy damage. And everything damaged gets dealt a negative level. Wights begin to rise within a day of the start of this storm.

And the winter's conditions themselves are a horror. The depth of the snow can range from 9 inches to 10 feet of snow. And the winds...

Well they can be anywhere from 11+ to 31+ miles per hour.


Original Thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9892.msg334809#msg334809)

Damn, that's really nasty. It doesn't cover a whole lot of space, fortunately.


The OP is talking about a highly magical race that is an appropriate challenge for level 6 pcs. So I think you're looking at a much higher power spectrum than this race fits into. That distinctly limits the access to large scale weather control and such, doubly so when you're dealing with hostile dragons.

A level 1 spell isn't that high on the power spectrum. 3.0 Haste is very high on the power spectrum (similar effects are level 8 and 9 spells, such as arcane fusion and shapechange). Some weather control, relatively low on the power spectrum.

Balor01
2010-11-19, 07:01 PM
Well global cooling in this case brought upon The long winter (Ice age) which was the first crack in lizard's empire. Some also say that lizards in their arrogance turned their back on ancient gods and that that was the real reason for their downfall. Dragons also appealed to many lizard-ish species, because ye-olde-wizard-lizards were in fact extremely cruel and enslaving race, so massive rebellions rose in the Empire with slaves having some high-tier magic.

A series of linked events really ...