[4E] Character Builder goes online-only

[Erom]

Maybe it would be attractive to people who have only ever played computer and video games, though.
I think that's useful for a lot of people. All I know is, I have taken someone who has never played DnD before, sat them down at the character builder, and had a lvl1 drawn up and ready to play in about 15 minutes, where the first time with the books typically takes ~2ish hours.

[Dsurion]

I don't understand all this hullaballoo. Have gamers really become so dependent on the CB? Does nobody use a good ol' pencil and notebook anymore?

If character creation is such a hassle without software help, it's too complicated.

Hm, I may be turning grognard.

I've often wondered this, too. If people are really so strapped for time that they can't create a character within the rules without hand-holding in a timely manner, they should probably use a less complex system.

Use the books if you own them. If not... Then unfortunately your only options are to buy them or suck up the online only character builder.

[Grogmir]

I don't understand all this hullaballoo. Have gamers really become so dependent on the CB? Does nobody use a good ol' pencil and notebook anymore?

If character creation is such a hassle without software help, it's too complicated.

Hm, I may be turning grognard.

Have gamers really become so dependent on the CB? Yes - i know my group has,

I tried to buy the books - but my PHB is errata'd to Hell and back, its useless, the CB gave me all the up to date content - errata'd ready to use.
Or I can spend 100s of pounds on books that are out of date before they are even released!

Yes I could spend 4 hours shifting through books - or I spend 4 minutes and then the rest of the time you know actually roleplaying.

Anyway - doesn't the new CB come out today? Will be interested to here how it goes.

[Mystic Muse]

I don't understand all this hullaballoo. Have gamers really become so dependent on the CB? Does nobody use a good ol' pencil and notebook anymore?

If character creation is such a hassle without software help, it's too complicated.

Hm, I may be turning grognard.

Well, it's not quite that it's "Too complicated" without the builder, it's that it's much easier with the builder. For example, it's usually easier to do complex math on paper or a calculator than it is to do it in your head.

The reason it's so much easier too, is that it puts everything that could apply to your character in little sections so that you don't have to look through 7 books to find all your options.

[Katana_Geldar]

The Character Builder is also immensely useful for DMs. I can view my players sheets and pre-approve them before game day, ask them to change things or make suggestions for them to perform better. I also store my player's character sheets on my PC, just in case the unthinkable happens.

[Kylarra]

The main reason we used it was ease of errata integration and ease of power/item/feat perusal, one place rather than sorting through 4-6 different books.

[Mystic Muse]

Oh yeah, reading errata is a pain. So much easier when you have it in one place than when you have to look through all of it for a specific thing.

[Dragosai]

I've often wondered this, too. If people are really so strapped for time that they can't create a character within the rules without hand-holding in a timely manner, they should probably use a less complex system.

Use the books if you own them. If not... Then unfortunately your only options are to buy them or suck up the online only character builder.

Um this makes zero sense. What if we want a complex system?
So for Dsurion and other posters who for some reason can't understand how technology makes things better, I suggest you start snail mailing in your forum posts from now on since you know that would be using "paper and pencil".
Also no more cell phones, hell if you have fully functioning legs no more cars for you either. Yeah we can go on if we want to keep up the madness, or people could take a small sip of common sense.

[Dsurion]

Um this makes zero sense. What if we want a complex system?
So for Dsurion and other posters who for some reason can't understand how technology makes things better, I suggest you start snail mailing in your forum posts from now on since you know that would be using "paper and pencil".
Also no more cell phones, hell if you have fully functioning legs no more cars for you either. Yeah we can go on if we want to keep up the madness, or people could take a small sip of common sense.

Well that's not a very good comparison - I'm not paying to use the forum :smalltongue:

I totally see the usefulness of CB, and I've even used it before. It's more of a personal thing for me to not use it, honestly. I probably came off as more critical than I wanted to. I used to use a chargen system for 3.5 that was made with Core material. It was good and well, but I faced down a piece of paper and took four hours to make a Rogue without it. At that point I realized I'd rather just get more firsthand experience with making the characters and wade through the books I paid for to speed it up every time. Well, that and the programs couldn't legally come pre-made with splatbook material.

Also, the argument about errata is a really good point.

[Grogmir]

Use the books if you own them. If not... Then unfortunately your only options are to buy them or suck up the online only character builder.

Unfortunately that isn't the only option. I still have access to the CB as it. My group is now officially a 4.0 pre online CB group. No Dark Sun though :smallfrown:

[shadowmage]

Well looks like it is up. I am loging in now.

[ShaggyMarco]

Here goes my 3rd try on the new builder. It's timed out/frozen up the first two.

EDIT: IT WORKED! For a second...then it crashed when I tried to upload a character sheet from the Character Builder.

The interface looks nice and all, but wow, I'm not seeing an improvement yet.

Things you can't do with the new Char Builder (or it crashes!)

-Upload an original Char-Gen file
-Play an Artificer.

[shadowmage]

Still looking how to modify my Char sheet. I see some powers that are now using my weapon as an implement for my Swordmage.

[tcrudisi]

If people are really so strapped for time that they can't create a character within the rules without hand-holding in a timely manner, they should probably use a less complex system.

I have to politely disagree. It has nothing to do with being strapped for time. I remember when I played a previous version of D&D how I did not have a character generator like the character builder. I would literally sloth through books for hours trying to create a character. I could do the same for 4e, but really, I am much happier getting all the options in front of me and creating the character in 30 minutes. Why spend 4+ hours (the same amount of time that I spent in 3.5) creating a character when I can do it in 30 minutes?

I could also spend an hour driving to the supermarket by going 5mph. Instead, I could do the speed limit and get there in 10 minutes. I think I'll drive the speed limit, thanks.

Of course, I also create characters for others as well. I have a group that's still new to 4e, so they give me a char concept and I create the characters with some input from them. My fiancee? She also asks me to create characters for her (she gives me the input and I run with it). If I tried to do all those by hand and book, I would die from starvation.

(And the same is true for every system I've ever played in, with the exception of 2nd ed. revised WoD -- in that system I could create a character in 5-10 minutes, on a sheet of paper, and be done.)

[valadil]

Hmmm. I like the way they suggest builds based on play style, but I much prefer the handy shortcut I have right on my desktop.

Your desktop is not limited to applications. You can copy a bookmark there too.


I've often wondered this, too. If people are really so strapped for time that they can't create a character within the rules without hand-holding in a timely manner, they should probably use a less complex system.


It's not just a time thing. I don't think the rules are complex. But the rules are wordy. I don't want to write out all my powers on index cards. I didn't have to do this in 3.5, unless I was playing a caster.

Anyway, I also like having a CB because it gives me more access to my character sheets. If I have some free time at work, I can write game there. I wouldn't want to have to bring 20 lbs of game books with me. The switch to an online-only CB means I no longer need Dropbox to sync up character sheets for me (although that also means I won't be able to view them on my iPhone since that support Dropbox but not Silverlight).

[Mando Knight]

My thoughts on the new CB:

1.) I love the new interface. It feels all nice and new.
2.) It's slow. I click on an option, and three minutes later the program replies with all of the final touches.
3.) There's no quick breakdown of the power calculations when you're selecting a power. It's not necessary, but I like the feature, so I miss it.

[Kurald Galain]

Hoo boy. I'm just reading through the thread at the WOTC forum. Lots 'n lots of complaints about how annoying the interface is, how certain options are missing, and especially how much it crashes. And, ironically, the server it's running on appears to be called vecna.wizards.com :smalltongue:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26272825/New_CB_is_up.?pg=2

Yeah, I'm not gonna touch this one with a ten-foot mouse cursor.

[Ignatius]

I have had a play with the online character builder thismorning.

I would have to say that in some areas it is a little slower than the offline character builder, but if you need a character in a hurry, then you should just use the pick for me options.

Also, I like the new layout of the character builder version of the character sheet. I always had trouble remembering what feats did, what race or class features did, and having them set out like this will be a big help.

[Katana_Geldar]

I'll take a look when I get home, there's still a few weeks left on my subscription. Are the new character sheets printable in blank form?

[Ignatius]

Sort of.

It appears to show base figures (e.g 10 + half level) by default, but other than that everything else is blank

[Reluctance]

Not liking how it's subscription-locked and how they took down the sample adventures for beginners. Some sort of free trial mechanism is good for a game.

It would be cool if they unlinked "active subscription" from "currently paid". It'd be awesome if I could access already made characters even after a sub ended. And buy permanent access to full books worth of information for PDF prices. Adding other plans to the subscription model could make it a very tempting offer. As-is it seems handy for existing fans, but poorly designed for enticing new blood.

[Tiki Snakes]

Another note - It mainly deals with Vecna.wizards, but I've seen it contact Ioun.wizards, too. (However you spell that, anyway).
Intruiging implications, wouldn't you think?

[tbarrie]

It's... a blank white window.

Is that supposed to be symbolic? Is it meant to evoke a blank piece of paper or something?

[Mystic Muse]

It's... a blank white window.

Is that supposed to be symbolic? Is it meant to evoke a blank piece of paper or something?

I think it just isn't loading right. It did that to me earlier.

I'm going to look at it again and see how it goes.

[Kurald Galain]

It reminds me of Netscape.

What went wrong with Netscape? Upper management made the decision to scrap their entire code base and rewrite it from scratch. The predictable result was a product that was (1) late, (2) missing features, and (3) unstable.

[ShaggyMarco]

Honestly, it's not stable enough to use.

I think, for Essentials and/or Dark Sun characters, it will be quicker for me to use the books, paper, and pencil or the old character builder, type up the character in my preferred character sheet format, and then add any options from non-builder books.

I'm very disappointed.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Well, all my players are having a fine time using CB Cloud, so at least we can say that these problems aren't universal. I'm willing to bet they'll clear up after a few days when the load on the server decreases and they get a chance to patch a few launch-day bugs.

The only complaints my players have thus far is that the search function has a bizzare UI. And that it is harder to use as a "rules look-up" than CB Classic was. But that's why we have the Rules Comphendium, I suppose :smalltongue:

[Maclav]

One of the worst web application experiences I have endured in years.

[valadil]

It's... a blank white window.

Is that supposed to be symbolic? Is it meant to evoke a blank piece of paper or something?

Make sure you have Silverlight installed correctly.

[Hzurr]

I'm surprised that so many people are having issues. It worked fine for me, after a silverlight upgrade. Overall it seems to be a much smoother experience than the initial CB install. Geez, that thing was a pain.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm surprised that so many people are having issues. It worked fine for me, after a silverlight upgrade. Overall it seems to be a much smoother experience than the initial CB install. Geez, that thing was a pain.
I'm also rather surprised by this: I read many messages of people who state it is sloooow and crashing all the time, and also several messages of people who state the opposite. I suspect it depends heavily on your system setup and network speed, as well as how congested the server is when you try it.

Still, even assuming WOTC can get it to work reliably, there's many reports that e.g. Twin Strike gets the wrong weapon stats, or that 4.4 mages cannot select 4.0 wizard spells, or that HOFK is missing entirely.

WOTC's list of Known Issues (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1543) is pretty long...

[Sipex]

Give it time, if it was perfect from the start it wouldn't be a computer program.

[Folytopo]

Alright I tried it before my DDi subscription ran out and it was meh. It crashed twice and was much slower on the two occasions I tried than the old character builder and now I cannot keep updating my character after my subscription runs out. It also makes it much harder to share between multiple people because of limits on characters and the slowness. You guys know, it is an hour or two before session and you need to level up and four people need to.
They effectively increased price and reduced functionality. The compendium was really really useful but now I think I will not renew my subscription.