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Frito_Butterbuns
2006-03-12, 10:48 PM
I don't like Eberron and I'm really getting frustrated that nearly all the new D&D computer games are set in Eberron. I know NWN2 is FR, so at least I have that to look forward to. Does anyone else feel this way?

I'd give the Giant's drawing hand just to have one lousy text based game set in Greyhawk! Well, I may hold out for CGA, but gawsh darn it, its my favorite setting and the spooky wizard barely supports it. >:(

kleedrac
2006-03-13, 01:30 AM
A-FREAKING-MEN to that!!! I don't think it's a good setting and I'm getting sick of not having any new D&D CRPG's because they're all set in this horrible setting :P

Samiam303
2006-03-13, 01:47 AM
...I can think of TWO games set in Ebberon. Care to name any more?

Dhavaer
2006-03-13, 01:51 AM
I agree, there's not that much Eberron. I can think of two, D&DO and Dragonshard.
There's far to much Forgotten Realms. Kingmaker was good, just a pity it wasn't longer. And a pity it used the Neverwinter Nights engine. I realise I'm almost alone in this, but I like Neverwinter Nights solely for the story, after one play through it was boring because the engine was so un-D&D.
If they'd used the ToEE engine, it would have been perfect.

Amotis
2006-03-13, 01:53 AM
I think the three (or two) newest console D&D games where set in Ebberron. I personally dont' care and also think that Ravenloft ain't getting enough love ;)

Dhavaer
2006-03-13, 02:10 AM
I don't think Ravenloft has been throughly purged enough. But that's just me.

Frito_Butterbuns
2006-03-13, 03:04 AM
I said nearly all the NEW D&D games...not ALL the D&D games. So of the three D&D games that are new or soon to be new (shard, online and NWN2) only one is non-Eberron.

I would have rather had Dragonlance, FR, Greyhawk, or heck, even Mystara over Eberron. It just doesn't do it for me. ;)

Kaerou
2006-03-13, 03:14 AM
Signed

I cant stand Eberron either. I really cant. To me its a setting that (no offense to younger players) seems totally designed and marketted for the newer kiddy generation, at the spite of the older loyal fans who want high fantasy. To me, any setting with golem druids and ninja's is a total smack in the teeth, to older and more loyal fans who cried out for Dragonlance pre-chaos war, Spelljammer, Ravenloft and Faerun.

I'm playing DDO of late, yes. However i really am doing my best to ignore the Eberron... 'ness, i really am.

Leon
2006-03-13, 03:41 AM
im sick of FR, Eberron is a breath of fresh air

Dhavaer
2006-03-13, 03:46 AM
I'd like more Greyhawk, personally. Faerun annoys me.

bosssmiley
2006-03-13, 03:46 AM
Signed

I cant stand Eberron either. I really cant. To me its a setting that (no offense to younger players) seems totally designed and marketted for the newer kiddy generation, at the spite of the older loyal fans who want high fantasy. To me, any setting with golem druids and ninja's is a total smack in the teeth, to older and more loyal fans who cried out for Dragonlance pre-chaos war, Spelljammer, Ravenloft and Faerun.

I'm playing DDO of late, yes. However i really am doing my best to ignore the Eberron... 'ness, i really am.
OMGWTFLOL doooouuuuooood Materia Dragonshards and Wolverine Shifters RAWK!!!11one1!!! ;)

Serious note, I bought the "Eberron" campaign setting purely to steal every bit of swashbucklery goodness I could out of Eberron (Xtreme Xplorer, action points, Halflings on dinosaurs, etc.). The adventures have left me cold, and most of the expansions are kinda "well, duh!" material to someone who still has his old 2nd Ed boxed sets lying around.

I suppose it's a generational thing in a way. To a generation raised on the cosmopolitan flash-bang of Final Fantasy and Harry Potter older and more traditionally 'high fantasy' settings like Greyhawk and Birthright may seem a bit inaccessible, or, dare I say it...{hushed whisper}irrelevant{/hushed}. :o

WOTC are just trying to follow their market and make a buck, they can do this best with innovative new! New! NEW! ideas like Incarnum (ftw? :-/). It's up to us to extract what good we can from their output. Tell me the "Campaign Classics" and "Demonimicon of Iggwilv" series in Dragon didn't warn your heart a little? ;)

Ambrogino
2006-03-13, 04:16 AM
Sorry, mark me up as an old-schooler who never liked Greyhawk and found Forgotten Realms to be getting dull. Eberron got me back into D&D as stuff was cool, and made sense to be there - I'm perfectly happy to see games set there.

Kish
2006-03-13, 05:02 AM
Hi, my name is Kish and I'm--oh, wait, never mind.

Warforged are badly broken, an annoying step backwards into racial class limitations, and, in all honesty, don't interest me very much conceptually even if they were done well. Other than that, I have no objections to Eberron, and I like the short shrift it (reputedly) gives to racial alignments (I haven't had a chance to read the books thoroughly).

I like Ravenloft, am generally sick of the Forgotten Realms, and wonder whether this thread actually belongs in the Gaming (D20) forum.

:P

Kaerou
2006-03-13, 05:30 AM
I soooo want to see more Spelljammer =(

I do admit i find Faerun a little old, but i never even got to really see Spelljammer before they labelled it old and worn out...!

kleedrac
2006-03-13, 08:58 AM
Spelljammer should totally come back.
The problem with FR is there are too many legends :)
Dragonlance is kewl too.
Sometimes Dark Sun can be fun.
Planescape is torturous but fun.
Ditto to Ravenloft.
Eberron is just bad. Badly written. Not interesting. NOT fantasy. Crap.

If they're going to have a campaign setting for D&D they should have picked something better.

Ambrogino
2006-03-13, 09:12 AM
Eberron is just bad. Badly written. Not interesting. <AMBROGINO's EDIT> Crap.

These are opinions - I, and apparently many other people, disagree.


NOT fantasy.

Now this is just incorrect. What definition of fantasy are you using that quantifies a setting that includes widespread magic and the supernatural as not fantasy? Especially if you're not using this to object to Planescape, Spelljammer, Dark Sun or Ravenloft, all of which deviate far more from the traditional (high) fantasy tropes.

Theodoxus
2006-03-13, 10:18 AM
It's new, it's scary - and it isn't what they're used to.

There are some aspects of Eberron I like - Changlings, Shifters and the Houses I really like.

There are some aspects I don't, but I won't mention them for fear of negative posting. At any rate, like all products from WotC, take what you like, leave the rest. If I ever run another game, I'll probably do a FR setting that incorporates ideas from Eberron that I like (there are a ton of things I hate about FR too - but the setting and maps are so detailed and easy to manipulate, I use FR extensively.)

Someone 'classically trained' in FR might not recognize the people or politics of my campaign, but they'd recognize the cities, forests, dungeons, etc.

Am I sick of Eberron? I think it's getting a bit too much emphasis at the moment. But it's the baby, and the baby gets the most food. Things will calm down, I don't see it having as rich a heritage as FR or GH, and thus the number of new products for it will dwindle, and hopefully WotC will concentrate on other aspects of the game..

Theo

Frito_Butterbuns
2006-03-13, 10:32 AM
DARK SUN. Boy I had forgotten about that. Yes, I very much enjoyed the Dark Sun coputer games and books. Dang, I'd love to see that come back, too.

Rei_Jin
2006-03-13, 10:32 AM
I don't know, personally I don't own a single Campaign setting specific book, and I like it that way. I do own a copy of Races of Eberron though, because I like the concept of Warforged, although I think they need a LA +1 or more thrown onto them.

Is there too much Eberron? Yes, but the support given to every other setting (minus Forgotten Realms) is pretty much zero these days. I mean, if Greyhawk is their default world, why isn't there a 3.5 campaign specific book for it?

I think it's more a question of dollars for WoTC than favoritism.

WampaX
2006-03-13, 11:45 AM
Is there too much Eberron? Yes, but the support given to every other setting (minus Forgotten Realms) is pretty much zero these days. I mean, if Greyhawk is their default world, why isn't there a 3.5 campaign specific book for it?

There is, in the RPGA. Free for download, or at least I think that's where it is.

Anyway, D&D games have mainly been set in the current "hot topic" world. Its sad that our own personal favorite world doesn't warrant another game, but that's the winds of marketing for ya.

I loved the Darksun games, too.

Voice of the Wampinator: I'm keeping this thread here for now, as long as the topic doesn't stray too far from the digital implementation of the settings.

Pop Goes the Weasel
2006-03-13, 12:50 PM
Yeah, I think Spelljammer should have more games. Although it isn't really fantasy, it is a truly unique setting. And (dare I say it?) 3e should show some non-Eberron love (I did, sorry Wampa).

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2006-03-13, 02:15 PM
Most of the old classics, Ravenloft and Dragonlance, for example, aren't really supported by DnD any more, and are relegated to the independants. Even though Greyhawk is the official setting as per the three core books, you don't see a lot there.

I remember back when FR was new, and just about all the computer games that came out then were set in FR (though Dragonlance got some honorable mentions as well). The classic "Gold Box" games had three Dragonlance games, and the rest were all Forgotten Realms. Ah, good ol' days.

That said, FR is DnD's most successful game world to date. I doubt there will be any end to computer games in that setting any time soon. The present Eberron push reminds me a lot of the Dark Sun push back in the day. When DS was first out, TSR put out a -lot- of Dark Sun product and there was even a couple of computer games there. So if you're sick of Eberron stuff, just wait a few years. We'll see how it goes.

SilverElf4
2006-03-13, 03:08 PM
I like bits and pieces of Eberron, but its when you start adding them all up that I have to bow out.

*But* I do see the *need* (yes need!) for it. FR is so big and intimidating that its hard for new players to even know where to start - or new DMs to run a game for fear that veteran gamer #201 can recite the history of the world and has ready every book and will know every tidbit you get wrong. And those players are multi-faceted in what they play, so the new campaign *must* be available via computers and even consoles.

So I am glad they launched a new campaign world, I'm just not stoke about the one they came up with.

Dragonlance is dead. WotC killed it when they advanced it to the Fifth Age and beyond -where and how should a computer game be set?

Spelljammer would be great for a comeback - but again, how as a computer game?

Ravenloft has been in the hands of fans for so long it would be hard to release an "official" game on it now.

Greyhawk has its living campaign for RPGA, so changing it via computer games creates confusion.

Dark Suns would need a massive PR campaign overall before anyone would know what it was enough to buy into it as a computer game.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

Amotis
2006-03-13, 04:23 PM
Ravenloft has been in the hands of fans for so long it would be hard to release an "official" game on it now.


That's why we need more love! We know what we want ;)

Telok
2006-03-13, 05:27 PM
Hundred ton, flying sidewheeler tinker-gnome warships powered by giant space hamsters!

Actually a Spelljammer game wouldn't be too hard to code off in a manner similar (not exact, learn from your mistakes) to NWN. Give the player a character, set them in a port, story line them into a ship. In NWN "travel" was just town-to-dungeon and almost perfectly linear, get rid of that. Make the Spelljammer travel and play more like the Fallout series, one overarching global quest (or several), a large "overland" map with freedom of movement and exploration, a few random encounters out there. About a dozen ports or cities with thier own independant quests and quest arcs, both local and mulit-town type, not every town needs to be linked to the main quest.

You don't need amazing graphics, just good graphics and tons of content. The Fallout series and Morrowind are good examples of this, people still play Morrowind because there is just so much content that you can't see everything with just one or two playings.

Traveling_Angel
2006-03-13, 07:27 PM
Eberron is just bad. Badly written. Not interesting. NOT fantasy. Crap.

If they're going to have a campaign setting for D&D they should have picked something better.


It's about as fantastic as you can get, magic/psionics are as common as dirt, and is verrrry differnt. It has a diffrent empasis on economy and a good and different planes system.

Casualgamer
2006-03-13, 09:53 PM
Ebberon is Steampunk. The only steampunk I ever liked was Escaflowne. 'Nuff said.

Amotis
2006-03-13, 10:25 PM
Ebberon is Steampunk. The only steampunk I ever liked was Escaflowne. 'Nuff said.

Second this. Nicely put. I agree.
Oh, and RaXephon. But that's almost not steampunk. PS: RaXephon rocks my socks off.

Behold_the_Void
2006-03-13, 11:42 PM
I must avoid deviating from the threads but I have to say that Rah-Xephon was in no way, shape or form steampunk. At all.

Anyway, I've been hearing a lot about Iron Kingdoms from my gaming group and I'd be interested in hearing more. Forgotten Realms is terribly overdone, and while I did enjoy Drizzt as a character, the charm does wear off after you see too many kids with chaotic good dual scimitar-wielding drow.

Anyway, as far as worlds are concerned, if Eberron offers a new alternative (that includes psionics) I'm all for it. I still need to check out the books and such, but it sounds reasonably solid.

Ambrogino
2006-03-14, 02:29 AM
Ebberon is Steampunk. The only steampunk I ever liked was Escaflowne. 'Nuff said.

Sorry, no. Steampunk would involve, well, steam, as well as a lot more spiny bits of brass :) This is magic AS technology, not magic with technology. (Check out Castle Falkenstein for decent rp Steampunk). The best label (other than fantasy) I've seen for Eberron is Dungeonpunk - it's taking the stylistic changes from D&D 3.0 to the next level.

Casualgamer
2006-03-14, 02:37 AM
Sorry, no. Steampunk would involve, well, steam, as well as a lot more spiny bits of brass :) This is magic AS technology, not magic with technology. (Check out Castle Falkenstein for decent rp Steampunk). The best label (other than fantasy) I've seen for Eberron is Dungeonpunk - it's taking the stylistic changes from D&D 3.0 to the next level.

'Wwwrrrrrong. This is the most commonly made misconception about Steampunk, ignoring the fact that, yes, Guymelefs involve steam. While fantasy steampunk DID grow out of Victorian age stories that involve futuristic contraptions involving steam, what it has come to mean in contemporary terms, is simply a setting in which archtypical fantasy elements coexist with technological or science fiction elements. Examples: clockwork golems, Steamboy, Escaflowne, Warcraft, Nadia could be counted in there also, etc.
Since Ebberon involves trains, robots, and flying stuff other than dragons etc., while maintaining a medieval society with medieval combat, yes, Eberron is heavily steampunk.

Kaerou
2006-03-14, 03:36 AM
Wow, Darksun! I had forgotten about that system too.. like Spelljammer, i would also love to see more Darksun. I loved the races in Darksun... Thri-Kreen! Those lizardfolk like people whose name i always forget!

Hehe.. and the magic in the system was also neat. I'll admit i found the matierials limitation frustrating, but since magic was also limited it was fairly good. The Dm was also totally free to bend or shape its matierials limitation as they saw fit, which could really help the setting.

As for Eberron, i guess that the steampunk really does fit, only its steampunk, and its not.. its a little more fantastical, but i feel Iron Kingdoms and Dragonmech did it much better.

Ambrogino
2006-03-14, 03:44 AM
'Wwwrrrrrong. This is the most commonly made misconception about Steampunk, ignoring the fact that, yes, Guymelefs involve steam. Why fantasy steampunk DID grow out of Victorian age stories that involve futuristic contraptions involving steam, what it has come to mean in contemporary terms, is simply a setting in which archtypical fantasy elements coexist with technological or science fiction elements. Examples: clockwork golems, Steamboy, Escaflowne, Warcraft, Nadia could be counted in there also, etc.
Since Ebberon involves trains, robots, and flying stuff other than dragons etc., while maintaining a medieval society with medieval combat, yes, Eberron is heavily steampunk.

This is getting way off topic, and revolving around the setting, not the games, so I promise this'll be my last post on the topic (here).

But;


archtypical fantasy elements coexist with technological or science fiction elements

There's no technology in Eberron - it's all replaced with magic. Nothing is created from a technological basis in any way, therefore, not steampunk. Unlike Escaflowne, which uses a combination of the two.

If you want to continue this, I suggest we take it to the RPG boards

Soul_Selim
2006-03-14, 06:43 PM
I agree with the last statement. (and Thourghly surprised 'Siberys' or however you speell it hasn't come here to defend his most precious campaighn setting he has his group tramping around it.)

Gimme Greyhawk Anytime. I really got into DnD for that, Not Ebberon, which makes a mockery of everything that I knew and loved... Like half-elfs with two swords that do nothing but Hack and slash. '>> Freakin Ebberon made it the second to worst race...

Kish
2006-03-14, 07:03 PM
Like half-elfs with two swords that do nothing but Hack and slash. '>> Freakin Ebberon made it the second to worst race...
Explain?

Soul_Selim
2006-03-14, 07:09 PM
I wish I could, But I'm lways told that by my Ebberon-Crazy friend, who reads every single thing on it that he can find. Siberys should know, sence it's his books he's reading. Anyway, Half-elves, as my DM Sibery's says, have House Lyandar or something. While Elves have this and that and some Mark fo death thing.

Long Story short, or just any point at all, Half-elves are only a step up from Half-orc, I have been told.

I find Rich's World much more interesting. Freakin Keith Baker needs to have a heart attack... For punishment, and the judges... ntohing fatal though.

SWATJester
2006-03-14, 07:27 PM
Blahhhhh Planescape was one of the great RPG's of all time! Where is the love! Why can't we have a new planescape game? I'd LOVE to prance about the inner planes, the outer planes, the quasi elemental planes, the astral, etc.

They could even program a random-dungeon/random world generator to seed the universe with prime material planes that people could go to.

Corvus
2006-03-14, 07:54 PM
Dark Sun was by far the best world setting they put out - well, until they destroyed it in the first series of books ;)

It was completely different to the norm, very nasty, dark and brutal. Simply surviving was a major accomplishment. And who couldn't love the idea of feral halflings that ate people? ;D

Frito_Butterbuns
2006-03-14, 08:50 PM
There was a lot be said for Dark Sun. Ahead of its time, perhaps?

Weren't mages destroyers of the environment and clerics healers of the environment?

Wizards tried to become dragon kings or something?

I just remember bits an pieces.

Wih
2006-03-15, 03:50 AM
While Ebberon is >>kinda<< steampunk, if you want a fullup steampunk setting, have a look at Iron Kingdoms...

Akiosama
2006-03-15, 11:54 AM
While Ebberon is >>kinda<< steampunk, if you want a fullup steampunk setting, have a look at Iron Kingdoms...

IK rules! 8)

Seriously, great setting, good source material so far, and the flavor is gritty and dark with quite a bit of room to play in. And the first set of adventures (The Witchfire Trilogy) is a pretty good set of 1st -8th level adventures. Also, they have Brian Snoddy and Matt Wilson (of CCG art fame) as part of the co-founding team, so the artwork is fantastic.

And you have 'jacks. Did I mention... Warjacks. ;D

All in all a good setting, made even more interesting by Warmachine, their miniature game.

For more info, go by Privateer Press' website (http//www.privateerpress.com). Their minis rock!

Just my 2 yen,

Steam out!

Akio

Beleriphon
2006-03-15, 04:49 PM
Eberrron is the best setting that has yet been produced. It takes a real logical look at how magic would be used by a society that has had it for over a millenia. There has to be a better use for magic than blowing the snot out of each other.

I can run off an arm's length of things that I'm not overly fond of, but I would still prefer to run an Eberron game to Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or heaven help me Spelljammer. The only thing that I would prefer to run would be Planescape.

Eberron has been slightly over represented, but I blame a large portion of that on the games capturing not the feeling of Eberron very well. It tries to take the feeling of crazy pulp stories like Conan combined with the noir story telling from The Maltese Falcon.

As for not being fantasy, Star Wars fantasy, so is Eberron. It may not be your kind of fantasy setting, but the setting on a whole is well designed and extremely well thought out.

If you don't like Eberron, why not? What is it about the setting that you don't like?



I wish I could, But I'm lways told that by my Ebberon-Crazy friend, who reads every single thing on it that he can find. Siberys should know, sence it's his books he's reading. Anyway, Half-elves, as my DM Sibery's says, have House Lyandar or something. While Elves have this and that and some Mark fo death thing.


Half-elves can be members of House Lyrandar or House Medani and receive the dragonmark of Storm or Detection respectively. Elves have the mark of Shadows, and the mark of Death was basically destroyed except for its last surviving member who can't use it because she's undead.

SilverElf4
2006-03-15, 04:59 PM
Eberrron is the best setting that has yet been produced.

Psssshhhhh, yeah right. When Dragonshard becomes as classic as the old DL and FR Gold Box games, then I *might* believe this. :P

Varen_Tai
2006-03-15, 05:07 PM
In my mind, the real major shortcoming of the Eberron setting is the lack of social retribution on shifters. Seriously, these guys can change shape anytime they want. Your own spouse could be a shifter and you would never know it. Can you imagine how the general populace would feel about a whole race of shapeshifters? Not to mention that law enforcement would take the shifter's ability into account and would never trust ANYONE from a crime scene. Period. If an innocent shifter happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, he's SCREWED.

We're talking major social implications here, and yet the shifter is just another race with a cool ability. From an adventuring point of view, they're fabulous, but from a social order point of view, there cannot be many worse things to deal with.

But I dig the Dragonmark Houses and such. Very cool.

EDIT: Meh. Exchange "changeling" for "shifter". That's what I meant. :)

WampaX
2006-03-15, 05:10 PM
I can run off an arm's length of things that I'm not overly fond of, but I would still prefer to run an Eberron game to Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or heaven help me Spelljammer. The only thing that I would prefer to run would be Planescape.

By "run", I would take it you mean "run on your computer", since that is what this thread is about.

Beleriphon
2006-03-15, 05:11 PM
Psssshhhhh, yeah right. When Dragonshard becomes as classic as the old DL and FR Gold Box games, then I *might* believe this. :P


Good setting, bad game. Totally different things.

As for those gold box games: bad settings, bad games. No comparison. I still enjoy playing games older than those, the gold box games just never did it for me.

storybookknight
2006-03-15, 05:26 PM
I'm actually quite the fan of Eberron, at least in part specifically because it fits *very* well with the 3.5 rule system.

Elves are no longer inextricably tied to Tolkien, and the ancestor worship thing seems logical for such a long-living race.

Gnomes are no longer to be made fun of, and have an excellent "bardic" culture as opposed to many other settings.

Halflings are no longer to be made fun of, and have like the elves been divorced from hobbitdom.

Half-orcs and half-elves suffer no racial stigma, which I think is excellent, and the role of "stigmatized race(s)" has been replaced.

The dwarves initially lacking civilization surprised me, but while I can take or leave the changes that they made to dwarven culture I think they fit very well thematically.

Obviously there are a few flaws to everything (warforged overpowered? try changelings) but on a whole, the system is coherent and rather rich.

IMHOP. Feel free to disagree as much as you want, I'm still gonna run my Eberron games.

In terms of classic settings, though, Ravenloft rocks.

Beleriphon
2006-03-15, 05:43 PM
Obviously there are a few flaws to everything (warforged overpowered? try changelings) but on a whole, the system is coherent and rather rich.


You'd think that changelings are over powered, but its only a +10 to disguise. They are anything other than another changeling then its a -2, another gender another -2, so with two of the most obvious (and one required) changes you get at best a +6 to disguise checks. Otherwise changelings get nothing else.

Anyhoo, I'm with you there. Eberron divorced itself of all prior paradigms that other settings seem to use. To me this is a terrific boon, but also a bane. Boon because you can take the game where ever you want, and a bane because you have to explain how everything is different. Maybe thats the problem and why people don't like the setting, its too different. In fact thats something that plagued Planescape, Spelljammer and Dark Sun, the things that made the setting unique are what drove players from them.

SilverElf4
2006-03-15, 05:47 PM
Good setting, bad game. Totally different things.


As Wampa pointed out, since this thread deals with the computer games only, its not two different things - setting and game are integerally linked and setting only matters as much as it influences the game.

My assessment of the gold box games is based on critics reviews and overall sales, rather than personal opinion, and in both cases, they beat the Eberron game over the head with a big ugly stick.

So, you can say that Eberron is the best setting for a DnD computer game ever....but it still has a long way to go in proving it.

WampaX
2006-03-15, 05:51 PM
Voice of the Wampinator: Alright, last time I'm saying this. This thread is about the Digital representations of TSR/WotC settings. If you want to ramble on about Eberon, or FR, or wherever else outside of the digital realm, the other Gaming section is where you want to post. There is even an Ebberon post not too far from the top right now.

You folks keep down this path, this thread will be locked and warnings may be issued.

Varen_Tai
2006-03-15, 06:25 PM
*hangs head*

I am ashamed, for I have contributed to thread drift.

AHEM.

I have yet to play any CRPG based in Eberron. My D&D experience has been the Gold Box series, DragonLance and FR both, the BG series, and Planescape:Torment, still the best CRPG of all time.

I never intend to try DDO because I don't like to pay for a game and then pay for it and pay for it and pay for it and pay for it. :)

Beleriphon
2006-03-15, 06:40 PM
Silly me... Ahem... :-[

DDO is fun, based on Eberron and does a good job representing the game setting as a whole. As for game style I don't know how broad the appeal will be.

<editted out as might cause thread drift again>
- B

In all fairness I think that any game given the same treatment that Eberron has in Dragonshard the game would suck. That doesn't mean that Eberron can't be a good setting for a great game. As a whole I think there are far too many mediocre games, or just out right bad games, that have nothing to do with the setting that has been chosen. Not every game can be a Baldur's Gate.

I think what Eberron really needs is a good solid CRPG in the vein of Baldur's Gate, or Planescape: Torment.

As for having too much, for me I can't get enough, and what do you expect Wizards to do? Push FR when it doesn't need the exposure, Eberron which does, or use a dead setting that they no longer support? I'd go with the new setting that could use the exposure.

Akiosama
2006-03-16, 06:17 PM
Question regarding DDO, does it basically follow 3.5-esquie rules or does it incorporate Eberron rules into it, such as Action Points, dragonmarks and the likes? (And does it have AoOs?)

I'm just curious... Right now I'm too into EQ and WoW to get another MMO, but I do want to know what they're doing...

My 2 yen,

Game on!

Akio

Beleriphon
2006-03-16, 07:05 PM
Question regarding DDO, does it basically follow 3.5-esquie rules or does it incorporate Eberron rules into it, such as Action Points, dragonmarks and the likes? (And does it have AoOs?)

It follows 3.5 as closely as possible. There are action points, in that each break down in a leve (ie. level 1.2) gives you a special "action point" ability that is usable every so often. There are no dragonmarks, but I'm not surprised since a good number of them give abilities that DDO doesn't incorporate or use.

There are no AoO as such since the attack system is much like an action game, your character attacks with each mouse click. This is offset with the reprentation of iterative attacks by each "swing" doing so more than once with each click.

All in all its a good solid represenation of D&D in an MMO. I don't think it quite captures Eberron, but its really close.

Kish
2006-03-16, 11:53 PM
There are no AoO as such since the attack system is much like an action game, your character attacks with each mouse click.
All in all its a good solid represenation of D&D in an MMO.

I have a very hard time seeing how to reconcile these two sentences. *tries to picture a game of D&D in which, instead of having rounds, each character attacks each time his/her player rolls a d20, so that each player has his/her own dice and, during combat, all the players sit around the table rolling as fast as they can*

Beleriphon
2006-03-17, 12:48 PM
I have a very hard time seeing how to reconcile these two sentences. *tries to picture a game of D&D in which, instead of having rounds, each character attacks each time his/her player rolls a d20, so that each player has his/her own dice and, during combat, all the players sit around the table rolling as fast as they can*

Thats basically what it does, that being said the speed at whch your character actually attacks amount to basically only being able to attack once or twice if you are clicking like mad, this is by far the worst possible thing you could actually do since that Iron Golem is just hammering on you as well, and it does a whole lot more damage. The combat system is designed to allow you dodge and block at will. The game does use a 1-in-20 chance to determine "hits" though.

In terms of actual game play its more like how one might actually expect combat in a fantasy world to play out. It look and feels alot like an action movie, which for Eberron is great.

storybookknight
2006-03-17, 12:51 PM
Oops. I thought this was about Eberron in general... I wondered why it was in the Other Games section. :-( Sorry!

stainboy
2006-03-28, 05:08 PM
Admittedly I haven't played it, but from what I've seen D&D Online looks like a terrible implementation of Eberron.

Okay, there are warforged, the game's set in Stormreach, and the drow fetishize scorpions instead of spiders. But Eberron is supposed to be half classic D&D, half pulp-serial adventure, and that second element got left out.

At the very least, the game should have a different "look" to it than traditional D&D, as the art in the books did. But all the dungeon screenshots and video I've seen looked about as stock as it gets. Gray flagstones, skeletons in horned helmets, and so on.

If that's what the developers wanted, great. Set it in Forgotten Realms, or Greyhawk. But if you're going to set the game in Eberron, at least try to include the stuff that makes the setting unique.

captain_decadence
2006-03-29, 12:47 AM
I haven't played DDO but I am sick of games set in Forgotten Realms. Yes, they were good games. Baldur's Gate 2 and NWN and all of its brood were some of my favorite games ever but we need to move on. Try something new. Forgotten Realms is so complex with history and precedence set by tons of novels, rule books and games that we need a clean slate. If Eberron is what is giving that to us, bring it on.

Rhaego
2006-03-29, 02:05 PM
I just want to echo those that liked the Dark Sun setting -I remember it basically being D&D in a Mad Max world with slightly different races. Still, there's a lot that can be explored and I would love to see a modern game in this setting... :)

Who knows, maybe some wealthy game dev is lurking. GO DARK SUN!!!

PedanticTwit
2006-03-30, 09:01 PM
I'd much prefer to see a D&D game based in one of the third party settings (from Fantasy Flight , Mongoose, Goodman, etc.) than either Faerun or Eberron. Neither setting interests me - although Faerun bores me even more than Eberron, as it doesn't even really have a schtick.

Beleriphon
2006-03-30, 09:51 PM
I'd much prefer to see a D&D game based in one of the third party settings (from Fantasy Flight , Mongoose, Goodman, etc.) than either Faerun or Eberron. Neither setting interests me - although Faerun bores me even more than Eberron, as it doesn't even really have a schtick.

Ironkingdoms would be pretty cool actually. That would make a pretty nifty CRPG setting.

Sholos
2006-03-31, 04:47 AM
What I'd like to see is a modern game in the Dragonlance setting. Time period preferably before all the magic disappears and before Chaos has his little tantrum and all that crap. Kender "handler" for the win!

Haven't played DDO yet. Looks almost too different from classic D&D for me to actually call it D&D.

Loved Baldur's Gate 2. NWN ... meh.

Celisasu
2006-03-31, 05:23 AM
I'm not exactly sick of Eberron, but I do think they're overdoing it a bit. I didn't mind Dragonshard that much. It was flawed in some ways but in other ways it was quite good. And I vastly prefer it to Forgotten Realms. Ugh, I have to rate Faerun as my least favorite setting by far. I rather miss Dark Sun. That was my first experience as a GM. Even if everyone died in our first game, we still had a lot of fun.

Frito_Butterbuns
2006-04-01, 12:29 AM
I think it would be great if they could put out a game where you could decide what setting you participate in. It would be a nightmare to incorporte some of the more non-traditional settings, but Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, FR aren't all the much differnt. Most of the monsters will be the same, too. It might make it more 'replayable'.

Nahal
2006-04-01, 12:49 AM
BG2 and ToB were great IMHO, but NWN was... missing something. Something about the story made it come just short of truly engaging me. Maybe it was the lack of Minsc. HotU was a great expansion (mostly for access to epic levels...drool...) which gave an improved story (and let you put Deekin at lvl 40, which was a huge bonus), but aside from Deekin I felt like BG2 had better characters on offer. And a better story, plus a feeling that there was more to do besides the main quest. Haven't played Dragonshard or DDO (I avoid MMORPG's like the plague as a rule), but from what I've seen between the two they attempt to capture what Eberron was trying to offer. I just feel like FR offers MORE, and BG2 did the best job of conveying that.

Kish
2006-04-01, 01:16 AM
It would be a nightmare to incorporte some of the more non-traditional settings, but Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, FR aren't all the much differnt.
*twitch twitch*

The Dark Powers, altered magic rules, and darklords in Ravenloft--a huge difference, bigger than Eberron even.

Three moons, dragonlances, draconians, the specific history of Krynn for Dragonlance.

Pantheons. Histories. Aren't all that much different?

Frito_Butterbuns
2006-04-01, 01:10 PM
Well, role-play yes, but within the context of a computer game I think it would be do-able. If it just focused on a specific story with a non-setting specific bad guy I think it could be pulled off.

I had forgotten about the moons in Dragonlance. Didn't that just affect spells? Could it be dealt with as a game-wide meta magic event modificaiton? I'm not sure what the other differences are in 3.5.

DWARF!

Orion-the-G
2006-04-01, 04:49 PM
but if it's meant to be the same non-setting specific story, with the same non setting specific bad guy what would be the point of doing it at all. Would you just be recieving eccentric sage advice from Fizban rather than Eliminstor? Would NPC warrior X have different color scheme and yell 'For Hextor!' rather than 'For Bane!' It seems rather pointless. I mean the reason that there are different settings in the first place is because they're meant to be played and experienced in a different way. You don't play Ravenloft the same way you play Forgotten Realms even if you're a group of medieval-fantasy adventurers chasing down a vampire.

Frito_Butterbuns
2006-04-01, 07:22 PM
Like I said, its just something I would like...I didn't say it would be easy. :)

Renrik
2006-04-01, 10:16 PM
just to violently change topics, whoa!

The cyborgs have not invaded this section yet! They're running rampant throughout the silly games section! Wampa X is desperately needed there!

Democratus
2006-04-03, 02:08 PM
DDO doesn't feel very much like ebberon. There's no lightning rail. You don't get to ride on an airship. There aren't any Artificers.

The missions are simple fare that could be in any fantasy setting.

Just about the only thing in the game that is Uniquely Ebberon are the warforged. And they aren't anything but a character who is healed by wizards instead of clerics.

Beleriphon
2006-04-03, 05:27 PM
At some level that is true. DDO is fun, but it doesn't exude what I feel makes Eberron Eberron. That being said give it time, and hopefully we'll end up with more quests that are more intriguing, mayhap even a few double crosses.

TimB
2006-04-04, 08:35 AM
Ironkingdoms would be pretty cool actually. That would make a pretty nifty CRPG setting.

Yes, it really, really would.

But not using the d20 system, which is fantastic for playing dnd with tabletop...

...and just shouldn't be in computer games. The pacing is completely wrong for one thing.

Beleriphon
2006-04-04, 03:16 PM
Yes, it really, really would.

But not using the d20 system, which is fantastic for playing dnd with tabletop...

...and just shouldn't be in computer games. The pacing is completely wrong for one thing.


I works pretty well all things considered, you just have to run everything in the background, or make it work exactly like a table top game with turn based combat. That halfway NWN style doesn't do the d20 system justice.

Sholos
2006-04-04, 08:07 PM
People keep referring to the "halfway" style of NWN's combat. Explanation, please? 'Cause I don't get it.

Goumindong
2006-04-04, 09:15 PM
People keep referring to the "halfway" style of NWN's combat. Explanation, please? 'Cause I don't get it.

The same way that BG1/2 were halfway. They made concessions for the game.

DDO is less DnD like in its sytesm than NwN (and more in some ways). In terms of "online games" and the feel and speed though, it is very good. If you are hardcore about the system it might not be for you, if you want to fireball the **** out of things, or hit things with swords, then it definitly is. DnD knowledge helps, but is unnessesary. The game runs in real time though each action takes up a set amount of time. If you click attack, you will attack now. Spell Points are used. Works very well for an online game.

NwN is closer to the system, using a quasi turn based system, the game runs in rounds that are enacted simultaniously, and concessions are made for balance and fun(most notably, resting). If you click attack, you will attack once the next round starts. Works OK for an online game, not so great SP, well, decent enough but not like the best example so far. NwN runs on the 3.0 ruleset.

The closest and best representation of DnD on the computer is "The Temple Of Elemental Evil" (Commonly refered to as ToEE) Which is the recreation of a much earlier module using the 3.5 ruleset(the previous was in 1 or 2e, i dont know). This game is turnbased, with a rotary system to select actions, you can take your turn in near 100% perfect synergy with the 3.5 ruleset(i dont remember if you can 5 foot within your full attack, but i believe so), with 5 foot steps, move actions, standard actions, full attacks, spellcasting with metamagic, spell preperation, the works. The game was made by troika and is now patched to the point of playability. It has a terrible storyline (which isnt their fault, it was a copy of a module, their other games have fantastic stories[Arcanum, and Vtm: Bloodlines{i could go on for ages about how awesome both these games are}]) but the absolute best and most faithful incarnation of DnD 3.5 rules(or DnD Rules period) of any game ever made.

You should play it just to see that it can be done, can be done well and is fun. Then weep because it will most likly never happen again. This is best for single player most definitly.

As for the setting, done right, in a single player setting using the ToEE system to run it, any DnD game can be fantastic and ahere to the system and feel of the game. As well, this isnt really possible online, and so judging games based on their setting isnt really a great idea. For instance, i was happy with NwN, but i hate the FR with a passion that burns brighter than the light shining off of a playboy models fake, airbrushed breasts.

And that is all i have to say about that.

Beleriphon
2006-04-05, 01:00 AM
People keep referring to the "halfway" style of NWN's combat. Explanation, please? 'Cause I don't get it.


Its turn based, but its not. NWN looks turn based because it produces effects in turns, whether thats attacks or spells or item usage, but it doesn't really use the turn based mechanic that we're used to seeing in table top D&D. NWN specifically runs real time but queues up actions based on a variety of factors, and then executes them according to creature/character intiative. For a better D&D style turn based game see Temple of Elemental Evil, for all of its many faults it captured D&D style turn based combat perfectly.

Telok
2006-04-05, 03:00 AM
Its turn based, but its not. NWN looks turn based because it produces effects in turns, whether thats attacks or spells or item usage, but it doesn't really use the turn based mechanic that we're used to seeing in table top D&D. NWN specifically runs real time but queues up actions based on a variety of factors, and then executes them according to creature/character intiative.

Liberal use of the spacebar (default pause button) to line up actions and/or adjust to the situation helps alot with this issue. Once you get into that habit the game became much more "turn based" than real-time shooter.

That of course is probably going to be my major issue with DDO once I get around to giving it a trial. While I admit that there really isn't a great way to turn base an online game I do think that there had to be a better way to run combat than a wear-out-the-mouse-click-fest. From what little I've seen it really is "attack as fast as you click" style with little other option for melee combat. I haven't seen any info on how they handle ranged combat.

Interestingly the DDO forums seem to be undergoing the early stages of all the old wizard vs. sorcerer debates. Highly amusing.

Siberys
2007-01-11, 07:40 PM
I agree with the last statement. (and Thourghly surprised 'Siberys' or however you speell it hasn't come here to defend his most precious campaighn setting he has his group tramping around it.

I was mentioned? No Wai!!! I didn't think I was that well known :smallbiggrin:

anyway, I got a couple of q's for others who have posted


Warforged are badly broken, an annoying step backwards into racial class limitations, and, in all honesty, don't interest me very much conceptually even if they were done well. Other than that, I have no objections to Eberron, and I like the short shrift it (reputedly) gives to racial alignments (I haven't had a chance to read the books thoroughly).

could you explain how it's a step backward? They can have any class, just as anyone else. Heck, in my games, I even have a WF druid, who will get an Owlbear companion (AoW)!

On a related note, Airships are in FR too. And they're of the more steampunk - zepelin - tinker (Halruuan (sp?), I think, but I know next to nil about FR) gnome airship variety, as opposed to boats suspended in the air by the magical power supplied by an elemental of the primal force of Air.

Eberron is NOT steampunk. Believe me, I HATE steampunk, and I wouldn't play it if it were. As it is though, it is my favorite setting. Steampunk denotes the use of tech - Eberron uses only medieval-type technology with magical modification - taking a magical society to its logical end. And I hate the term "magitech", which Eberron most certainly is NOT!

And what soul_selim was refering to was that his characters are always dual wielding half-elves. I was suggesting to him that he have some connections to Lyrandar for RP purposes, and that Half-Elves are mechanically weak compared to most other races (this part is really because he always, without fail, wants a dual-wield half-elf. It's less an Eberron argument than general D&D. (and if you didn't know, soul, Eberron didn't do it, D&D 3.0 did it) :smallwink:

And he generally likes 'Hack'n'slash' better than 'RP w/some Hack and slash', which is what I was going for, proving why I prefer Eberron.

Anyways, I googled Eberron on these forums to find an Eberron PbP, and I found this. It mentioned me, so I had to reply. Sorry to necropost and refer to the D&D as opposed to digital incarnation.

Siberys

Neo
2007-01-12, 12:02 PM
Halruuan airships in FR are magical, not steampunk either.

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-12, 12:24 PM
Dark Sun was by far the best world setting they put out - well, until they destroyed it in the first series of books ;)

It was completely different to the norm, very nasty, dark and brutal. Simply surviving was a major accomplishment. And who couldn't love the idea of feral halflings that ate people? ;D

I have to agree and add my love for Darksun I would love to see a planescape torment style computer RPG for darksun or even a baldurs gate dark alliance console style treatment.

Siberys
2007-01-12, 12:59 PM
Halruuan airships in FR are magical, not steampunk either.

Well, they look closer to real-world tech than Eberron airships, was my point.

Anyways, like I said, I know next to nil about FR. It was truly a miracle that I apparently spelled Halruuan correctly, let alone remembered it. I just remember seeing picture of zepelins in some FR sourcebook, so don't crucify me :smallbiggrin:

Alchemistmerlin
2007-01-12, 01:04 PM
A-FREAKING-MEN to that!!! I don't think it's a good setting and I'm getting sick of not having any new D&D CRPG's because they're all set in this horrible setting :P


*Sniff sniff* Mmmm the smell of bitter fanboy.

Smells like cheetos.

Neo
2007-01-17, 07:49 PM
No worries Siberys, its probably down to the artist at the time. As it seems these days whenever you mention airship people think zepellin.

Reinforcements
2007-01-18, 03:16 AM
*Sniff sniff* Mmmm the smell of bitter fanboy.

Smells like cheetos.
The real tragedy here is that Kleedrac will probably never witness your response, since he hasn't posted since last April. Yes, I am just sad enough to have looked that up.

I do love Eberron, though. I love it so much.

Druid
2007-01-18, 04:10 PM
They've come out with a whole two Eberron games and people are complaining?

Allandaros
2007-01-18, 04:25 PM
This is the internets. People will complain about anything, sir.

Speaking of which, I think I'll do so right now.

WHERE THE CRAP IS MY 1e-BASED GREYHAWK CRPG?

Ahem. I'm serious, though. Dark and gritty and lots of death, without the "everything-and-the-kitchen-sink" stuff that is in Forgotten Realms.

And 1e because if I'm going to wish, I might as well be extravagant...

Druid
2007-01-18, 04:48 PM
Someone complaining about the complete lack of Gray Hawk games I can understand. People complaining that two of the last three games released where Eberron instead of them all being FR is just dumb.

Aidan305
2007-01-22, 08:57 PM
Personally I feel that another RPG set in Planescape woudln't go amiss (and not just because it's my favourite setting). I don't believe that I have ever met anyone who didn't consider Torment to be high ranking among their favourite RPGs and it was made almost 10 years ago.

I think one of the problems with most RPGs today stems not from the setting but from the fact that the games are usually pretty much Hack'n'Slash all the way with very little to really immerse you in the game.

Weezer
2007-01-22, 09:23 PM
I love Planescape, I have 20+ Planescape books in my collection that I use all the time in my 3.5 games. IMO Planescape is the most intracatly connected and unique DnD settings.

DeathQuaker
2007-01-22, 09:38 PM
Hmm... let's see.... D&D Computer games and the settings they are in... which settings have been overused, now? Please note this is not a complete list, but I think I got the bulk of'em, from about 1989 to the present.

Eberron
Dragonshard
D&D Online

Dark Sun
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands
Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager

Dragonlance
War of the Lance
Dragon Strike
Champions of Krynn
Death Knights of Krynn
Dark Queen of Krynn

Al-Qadim
Al-Qadim: the Genie's Curse

Ravenloft
Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession
Ravenloft: Stone Prophet

Spelljammer:
Spelljammer: Pirates of Realmspace

Mystara
Fantasy Empires

and the old Arcade favorites:
Tower of Doom
Shadow over Mystara

Planescape
Planescape: Torment

Greyhawk
Temple of Elemental Evil

Forgotten Realms
Pool of Radiance
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Secret of the Silver Blades
Pools of Darkness
Hillsfar
Gateway to the Savage Frontier
Treasures of the Savage Frontier
Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder II: Legend of Darkmoon
Eye of the Beholder III: Assault on Myth Drannor
Dungeon Hack
Neverwinter Nights the old online AOL game
Menzoberranzan
Blood and Magic
Descent to Undermountain
Baldur's Gate and its expansion pack
Baldur's Gate II and its expansion pack
Pools of Radiance (unfortunately)
Icewind Dale and its expansion pack
Icewind Dale II
Neverwinter Nights and its expansion packs, plus a premium module
Neverwinter Nights II

Note to mention several packaged re-releases of a number of these games (such as the Forgotten Realms collection, which included all the old Gold-Box games, the EoB series, and Menzoberranzan)

and on the PS2:
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2
Demon Stone

-------------------------------------------------------------

So.... if there's a setting that's been overused for video games...

It sure as heck ain't Eberron.

I'm not a huge Eberron fan, but I think it's a fine setting, and it's nice it's gotten at least some moments in the video game sun. The fact that it's gotten two relatively well-known videogames puts it above many other D&D settings. And while I'd like to see other games in other settings, it makes perfect sense for them to make games in the new setting to help try and set it. OTOH, perhaps they'd help sell some of the pre-established settings if they'd support video games in them. There are so many Forgotten Realms games because FR is popular... but likewise, the prevalence of FR video games has also helped increase its popularity (I became familiar with the Forgotten Realms via the old gold box games long before I ever played tabletop D&D).

But at any rate, poor little two-game Eberron, regardless of whether you like the setting or not, doesn't deserve getting flack because "all the games are set in it." That just ain't true.

StickMan
2007-01-22, 09:53 PM
First no and I never will be. But I would like to see a setting in wich we are at a level of tecnology we are now except with magic instead. You Ipod runs on arcane energy sort of thing. Or better Magic in space, Fire elemental warp cores, whole new uses for the gate spell.

neriana
2007-01-22, 11:55 PM
Eberron looks pretty hackneyed and boring to me. Like, they wanted to pretend they were doing something new, but ended up ripping off every Final Fantasy of the 20 last years or so, except with a western rather than an eastern flavor. Well, except the ninjas. It's not terribly coherent.

I also loved the Dark Sun games. I would like to see more of those; Planescape as well. I know next to nothing about Spelljammer, but what I do know sounds pretty cool. I'm another person who is pretty sick of Forgotten Realms. They have done some excellent things with it, but it seems to have a stranglehold on D&D.

Ambrogino
2007-01-23, 06:12 AM
Eberron looks pretty hackneyed and boring to me. Like, they wanted to pretend they were doing something new, but ended up ripping off every Final Fantasy of the 20 last years or so, except with a western rather than an eastern flavor. Well, except the ninjas. It's not terribly coherent.

This just shows you haven't actually read it. Eberron's far and away the most internally consistent setting that's been put out for D&D, and apart from the Airships (which occured in Forgotten Realms first) has almost nothing in common with Final Fantasy that's not down to the original Final Fantasy ripping off D&D in the first place.

Marius
2007-01-23, 06:24 AM
Personally I feel that another RPG set in Planescape woudln't go amiss (and not just because it's my favourite setting). I don't believe that I have ever met anyone who didn't consider Torment to be high ranking among their favourite RPGs and it was made almost 10 years ago.


But the success of Torment doesn't have much to do with the setting. A game can be good or bad in any setting, Eberron is a great setting but it doesn't have a good game, it doesn't even have a real rpg game! (besides the awful DDO)

neriana
2007-01-23, 06:36 PM
This just shows you haven't actually read it. Eberron's far and away the most internally consistent setting that's been put out for D&D, and apart from the Airships (which occured in Forgotten Realms first) has almost nothing in common with Final Fantasy that's not down to the original Final Fantasy ripping off D&D in the first place.

Whoever ripped off whomever, I find it boring and hackneyed. And I have read it, though admittedly not with the amount of attention I give to things that grab me from the first.

Kish
2007-01-23, 06:45 PM
could you explain how it's a step backward? They can have any class, just as anyone else.

Not just like anyone else. Most elses don't have automatic, unavoidable arcane spell failure chance at all times.

Sure, you can play a warforged wizard or sorcerer. It's just..."gently" discouraged by the system.

Ashes
2007-01-24, 07:30 AM
Not just like anyone else. Most elses don't have automatic, unavoidable arcane spell failure chance at all times.

Sure, you can play a warforged wizard or sorcerer. It's just..."gently" discouraged by the system.

Untrue. Unarmored Body removes all ASF from Warforged. Just use your body feat on that instead. Besides, the constant armor makes sense.

Tekar
2007-01-24, 08:54 AM
But the success of Torment doesn't have much to do with the setting. A game can be good or bad in any setting, Eberron is a great setting but it doesn't have a good game, it doesn't even have a real rpg game! (besides the awful DDO)
Hmm, I agree that it wasn't the only thing that made PS:T great but it definately contributed to its greatness for me. There are just so many things possible in the Planescape world and you just can't imagine tormentin any other setting, it would totally not work.

Arlanthe
2007-01-24, 09:03 AM
I generally have to agree with the people who feel lackluster about Eberron. I mean, I'm not an Eberron hater, but I just ain't feeling it. I kind of agree with the hackneyed and boring people.

I think the appel of FR is that the Realms are Huge, varied (if portrayed correctly), and have scads of history, resource books, and background material. NwN feels different from Eye of the Beholder or Icewind Dale, because they are all different styles of computer game yes, but also very different (and detailed) regions in the realms.

That being said, I would love to see another Planescape game- truly well done, Planescape must return. And the new, edgy "d20" Greyhawk could use a few more games. I know it's core, but there is so much that can be done with it.

I think the one time my flirtation with Eberron bordered on anger was the catastrophe that is DDO. But I can't blame the campaign world for a thin blooded, weakly executed "MMO", that is actually just a multiplayer adventure game with a graphical chat room between instances. DDO didn't help Eberron's image.

PokeTheBard
2007-01-25, 11:51 AM
Eberron has it's place as a setting, and I enjoy my character in it. Since our "Greyhawk" style campaign ended for something else before we went epic, it's sort of become the main game we play, but I feel if we had played FR instead I would have appreciated the setting more. I feel FR is a more gritty setting than the sparkling Eberron prettyness.

dead_but_dreaming
2007-01-25, 12:15 PM
Didn't read through the thread, but my general opinion is that Eberron at least provides an attempt at non-standard fantasy which is good. FR is also nice because it's so alive and full of detail (the new source books are also great), but let's face it: who can really stand pseudo-Tolkien elves-and-wizards mixed with watered-out medieval these days? Throwing in ninjas and dinosaurs just like that and calling it "imaginative and original" is of course far too simple a solution, but at least the core intent is commendable: standard sword and sorcery is getting old and stale, we (I) need new stuff.

Koji
2007-01-25, 12:16 PM
If Wizards trashed every product line except for Planescape, and brought back the 2E Planescape art team, I would shake like a chihuahua at a picnic.

A PICNIC

Druid
2007-01-25, 09:57 PM
I'd figure that a chihuahua at a picnic would be shaking out of fear that it would be mistaken for a rat and turned into a hot dog.

Arlanthe
2007-01-26, 08:44 AM
If Wizards trashed every product line except for Planescape, and brought back the 2E Planescape art team, I would shake like a chihuahua at a picnic.

A PICNIC

Yeah, it needs to come back. Even the art team. I dunno about trashing everythign else, but I'd rather have seen Planescape than Eberron. If anything, Eberron is "more of the same" while Planescape has a lot of potential for many unique areas and mini-settings within it, with radically different feels.

Druid
2007-01-26, 04:31 PM
Eberron is so far from the Tolkien stereotypes Gray Hawk and FR are built on it's crazy. It is in no way "more of the same"

Cybren
2007-02-04, 12:08 AM
No it's "more of the same but just opposite rather than interesting"

Jaysyn
2007-02-05, 08:57 AM
DARK SUN. Boy I had forgotten about that. Yes, I very much enjoyed the Dark Sun coputer games and books. Dang, I'd love to see that come back, too.

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