OOTS #755 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[hamishspence]

This one's pretty funny. "Snorkelling club" :smallamused:

[Aidan305]

Heh, That was truly awesome.

[Rion]

Love the fact that violence is used to solve every competition.

[Echon]

I would love to see Hurt and Burnie go brutal.

[Welf]

Evil fascist government is funny. :smallsmile:

Felix the Mensch :smallbiggrin:

[Yendor]

Nothing like literal cut-throat competition.

[Weimann]

Ah, Judy, we hardly knew ye.

[Kareasint]

I actual did the math on the number of combat rounds in a year when I saw the number.

5256000/365 days = 14400
14400/24 hours = 600
600/60 minutes = 10
10/10 rounds per minute = 1

The balloon being held aloft by the Air elementals was a nice touch.

Band competitions and beauty pageants will never be the same in my eyes.

Goodbye, Judy. It was nice to meet you. Hello, Cathy.

[Ecalsneerg]

That is alarmingly sinister... and yet hilarious.

[Kurald Galain]

That is alarmingly sinister... and yet hilarious.

No no no no, it is hilarious! Nothing sinister at all! Really!

:smalltongue:

[Saph]

Heh, that was great. :smallbiggrin:

"That's right Bob, and our prayers go out to the members of the Platelet High School band, many of whom we're told will eventually retain partial motor control in their hands!"

[Moribundus]

Brilliant!

That is all. (except for the screams of enslaved air elementals, of course)

[The_Admiral]

That is alarmingly sinister... and yet hilarious.

I agree it is quite creepy and funny

[BridgeCity]

I like the implication given by the previous empire being named Justania. The empire of blood clearly has a blood theme and is Evil, so Justania would likely be about being Just and be ruled in a Good based fashion.

Poor good guys.

[madock345]

"Rend" is now my favorite play...
{scrubbed}

[Aurorax]

Wanna bet Elan doesn't catch on and thinks it's the Best. Parade. Ever.

[SaintRidley]

Wanna bet Elan doesn't catch on and thinks it's the Best. Parade. Ever.

Of course he will. There are balloons.

[ThePhantasm]

Yay, a double strip!

Methinks the Death Squad will have some important role later in this arc...

[Cheesegear]

The reference to Rent is quite amazing.

[NegativeFifteen]

Whenever I see a gigantic strip filled with new character designs, the first thing that goes through my head is "That must have taken a while to draw"
Thanks, Giant.

[CoffeeIncluded]

This. Is. Amazing.

[silas the monk]

I assume even after that, debate over Tarquin's alignment will continue.

[Evil DM Mark3]

I cant help but feel I would get the joke better if I where American. Is this ment as a parody of something? Feels like it is.

[KillItWithFire]

It's not really a parody of anything in particular. It parodies a play called Rent and Seaseme Street but that's about it. Otherwise it just reinforces the idea that the EoB is evil. They way it does so earns some laughs though. (I especially liked the marching band bit as I'm in my own schools marching band and we just wrapped up a great season.)


I assume even after that, debate over Tarquin's alignment will continue.

What are you talking about? He's throwing a PARADE. Everyone loves parades, how can he NOT be good. :smallbiggrin:

[pendell]

*Snicker*. Random. And funny.

"Will eventually regain partial motor control of their hands ... " is this a band joke I'm not getting? I was in high school band but I'm missing it...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Pronounceable]

Giant sure outdid himself here. It's awesomer than the norm.

[The Glyphstone]

*Snicker*. Random. And funny.

"Will eventually regain partial motor control of their hands ... " is this a band joke I'm not getting? I was in high school band but I'm missing it...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I don't think its a band joke so much as a violence joke. The Platelet Band lost the competition, presumably, because the winners inflicted so much damage on their hands/nervous systems that the Platelets were left unable to play their instruments.

[Mastikator]

Win.
Actually I like how every strip the tyranny becomes a tiny bit more blatantly obvious, yet Elan still manages to deny the alignment of his dad. Is it out of excitement that he finally has a dad, or just good old Elan stupidity?

The last two panels was the cherry on the cream.

[Taekwondodo]

Hurt and Burnie! God, that's so funny... First time I've laughed out loud at a comic in a while. :smallbiggrin:

@EvilDMMk3: In New York at Thanksgiving, Macy's (a department store) hold a parade.

[Burner28]

I assume even after that, debate over Tarquin's alignment will continue.

Please.. I'm pretty sure that no one would still insist after the mountains of evidence for the fact that Tarquin(just like most of the rest of the Empire of Blood- not necessarily the citizens of the Empire but definetly the soldiers) is not Lawful Evil but Lawful Neutral :smallamused:

[Frozen_Northman]

There's probably a slight typo in the third-to-last panel, at the end of its dialogue.

The commentator says "facist-", when I presume she meant "fascist-"

Unless it's a subtle form of humor, in which a facist government is supported by an elite squadron that doesn't show its faces.

[Raeden]

Nice comic :)

It's been about 100 years since I went to see rent. Can anyone tell me which particular song from the play they're parodying?

[factotum]

I wonder if all members of the Death Squad are trained to take over the jobs of the people they kill with such efficiency? :smallsmile:

[Mr. Snuggles]

The joke about Sesame Street, Sanguine Avenue: sanguine is an ancient word with the meaning of "blood". This goes all the way back to the discredited theory of the four humours. Sanguine is also an ancient reddish-colored drawing material, which got its name from the color of blood. Attaboy to the writer for the reference! He is surely a journeyman semiotician.

Sanguine synonyms (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sanguine): bloody, bloody-minded, homicidal, murdering, murderous, sanguinary, bloodthirsty, sanguineous.

I like that word, "sanguineous". If I could figure out how to pronounce it, I'd make it the name of my next wizard character. It certainly sounds better than any Harry Potter pseudo-Latin.

I also like the "poison bubbles" above the murdered journalist. Just imagine what Reporters Without Borders will say when they hear about this. She's the mother of a 3-year-old, for Gods sake!

I always enjoy a marching band reference. Although the trumpets are in front and the flutes behind - all woodwinds are always up front, otherwise you can't hear them. Real marching band aficionados will tell you woodwinds aren't needed in a band, and nobody misses them when they're absent. :smallyuk: The drum major should have a different uniform, too. What's with her square butt? I thought all females in OOTS had round butts, especially the African-American females?

Who are the commentators talking to? Is there a horde (NOT hoard, they're different words, people) of scrying eyes in front of them or something?

I didn't get the "Rent" reference, though. Not everybody spends time thinking about musical theater. In America, there are more people who cross-stitch than are into theater, much less the musical sort. Yet, I haven't seen any knitting jokes in this comic (or any other media, frankly). It would be nice to have some in-jokes about gardening, or fishing, or birdwatching instead of these obscure hobbies.

[CoffeeIncluded]

My god. MY GOD. Felix the mensch. *Falls over laughing*

[Castamir]

Little Roc, Hurt and Burnie are awesome just beyond words.

[SPoD]

In America, there are more people who cross-stitch than are into theater, much less the musical sort.

There are more people who cross-stitch than play Dungeons & Dragons, too, but that doesn't usually stop the author from referencing it. One man's obscure hobby is another man's beloved pastime.

[Draconi Redfir]

anyone else not able to see the snorkleing club? or am i just failing my spot checks?:smallconfused:

[Crod]

mace-y's.. Hehe, that's a nice one.

[Needle]

Epic Level Strip <3

[Crod]

Why is Felix sitting in a flower pot? Is that some reference or pun that I'm missing or just the puppet being supported by a pot?

[SPoD]

Why is Felix sitting in a flower pot? Is that some reference or pun that I'm missing or just the puppet being supported by a pot?

He's their version of Oscar the Grouch. Oscar is a horrible person who lives among the nice folks of Sesame Street; Felix is presumably a nice person who lives among the horrible folks of Sanguine Avenue. Oscar lives in a garbage can, a foul-smelling place, so Felix lives in a flower pot, a nice-smelling place.

There's also a bonus Odd Couple joke in there.

[berrew]

I actual did the math on the number of combat rounds in a year when I saw the number.

5256000/365 days = 14400
14400/24 hours = 600
600/60 minutes = 10
10/10 rounds per minute = 1

The balloon being held aloft by the Air elementals was a nice touch.

Band competitions and beauty pageants will never be the same in my eyes.

Goodbye, Judy. It was nice to meet you. Hello, Cathy.
Kareasint, the song being parodied there is the theme from the musical, "Rent", which talks about the ways we use our 525600 minutes that measure a year (the period of time covered by the musical).

That bit of musical dweebishness aside - nice comic. I especially loved the Oscar/Felix twist!

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I cant help but feel I would get the joke better if I where American. Is this ment as a parody of something? Feels like it is.

It's a reference to the Macy's Day Parade in New York City, held every year on Thanksgiving Day (Fourth Thursday of November.)

[Morph Bark]

Hurt and Burnie did it for me this time.

Also, shouldn't it be "fascist"?

[Deuce]

Kareasint, the song being parodied there is the theme from the musical, "Rent", which talks about the ways we use our 525600 minutes that measure a year (the period of time covered by the musical).

That bit of musical dweebishness aside - nice comic. I especially loved the Oscar/Felix twist!

Pretty sure the title is "Seasons of Love"

[geekwraith]

So, Bluddy's balloon is held aloft by the screams of air elementals... would a balloon intended to honor Minister Malack be held aloft by healium? :smallbiggrin:

[Maryring]

It's not really a parody of anything in particular. It parodies a play called Rent and Seaseme Street but that's about it. Otherwise it just reinforces the idea that the EoB is evil. They way it does so earns some laughs though. (I especially liked the marching band bit as I'm in my own schools marching band and we just wrapped up a great season.)



What are you talking about? He's throwing a PARADE. Everyone loves parades, how can he NOT be good. :smallbiggrin:

There's only ONE balloon. He must be evil for being such a cheapskate.

[MarkusWolfe]

Now I'm just waiting for Nale and company to show up, leading to a battle that includes Tarquin managing to fence off both his sons and cut a hand off each... before chucking that albino lizard off a high building.

Not that I don't like Malack, but he looks WAAAAY too much like the Emperor.

[Mauve Shirt]

I've made the mace-y's pun before. Then I was maced in the face. :smalltongue:

[Evil DM Mark3]

@EvilDMMk3: In New York at Thanksgiving, Macy's (a department store) hold a parade.And let me guess, the people who do the commentary talk like morons?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

And let me guess, the people who do the commentary talk like morons?

Yes; Yes they do... :smallwink:

I answered your original question above.

[pendell]

Wait wait wait. A "snorkeling club" in the middle of the desert?

LAME cover story. LAME. I guess being a fascist dictatorship means you no longer have to care whether your lies are plausible or not.

Hmm ... is anyone else secretly hoping that the EOB's ninja dea- erm, "Snorkeling club" will eventually tangle with Azure City's own ninja dea- erm, "quilting society" for , a , um "party"?


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[NotNale]

Truly an unbelievable strip. Well worth the wait.

DMMK3: The announcers for parades tend to talk in a breathless-and-overly-excited-and-chipper way as they rattle off a ton of information about the floats, bands, or whatnot that no-one is really interested in hearing. The speech "squares" capture their cadence almost perfectly. Nearly fell off my chair laughing.

That was beautiful. Will the empress be the main float, or did she just eat one last strip? And is she being held aloft by the screams of enslaved air elementals too?

And for those who asked, I think the empire of Justania was an outside enemy, as the parade was recent -- too recent in strip time to be the one overthrown by the EoB.

The last two panels, with the assassin taking over for the slain announcer were beyond funny. Best comic in a long time.

[AdInfinitum]

"Rend" is gonna have me smiling all day....

[suszterpatt]

I wonder if Mr. Burlew will ever run out of clever and interesting ways of depicting just how bloody evil the Empire is.

[Gift Jeraff]

Heh. Hurt and Burnie.


And for those who asked, I think the empire of Justania was an outside enemy, as the parade was recent -- too recent in strip time to be the one overthrown by the EoB.

Er, of course it was. The strip flat out says Justania (a GOOD nation?) was conquered last year, and it's been said various times that the Empire of Blood is only two years old, including the very same sentence that mentions the conquest of Justania. :smalltongue:

[Cerlis]

I didn't get the "Rent" reference, though. Not everybody spends time thinking about musical theater. In America, there are more people who cross-stitch than are into theater, much less the musical sort. Yet, I haven't seen any knitting jokes in this comic (or any other media, frankly). It would be nice to have some in-jokes about gardening, or fishing, or birdwatching instead of these obscure hobbies.

Well from what my acting roommate said ( if i understood him correctly) Rent is BASED off a musical play. "Rent" on the other hand is a famous award winning Movie that came out years ago, was famous for the story it told, loved by many, made fun of in another movie(that puppet one the song was "Everyone has AIDs". I know at least half a dozen people who I could put money on they have seen this movie, while I know of one person that Knits.

The song they are singing is the beginning (and ending) song. The actors on screen are the OotS equivelant of the Homeless black guy, the struggling song writer. The Crack head he falls in love with and the last one is the "main character" who is trying to make a movie to capture the lives of the people who live in the horrible conditions they do.

Edit:Sorry if that was a bit pointed. But "Rent" from what i know is very famous. HOwever, however there are oh so many good things I hear about but dont actually watch/hear till years later. I hope if given the opportunity you will watch this heartwrenching movie.

[Deth Muncher]

This comic is so many different kinds of awesome I can't actually articulate it.

[RoninAngel]

I assume even after that, debate over Tarquin's alignment will continue.

What's up for debate? He throws parades! Clearly Lawful Good!

[Volthawk]

Hmm ... is anyone else secretly hoping that the EOB's ninja dea- erm, "Snorkeling club" will eventually tangle with Azure City's own ninja dea- erm, "quilting society" for , a , um "party"?



Well, how do you know you would see anything? They ARE ninjas, after all.

[Werbaer]

Wait wait wait. A "snorkeling club" in the middle of the desert?
LAME cover story. LAME.
Check the map (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html). The capitol of the Empire of Blood is located at the junction of two rivers.

Oh, and: Two *great* strips in a row. Thanks, Giant.

[Arrowstorm122]

i miss Judy :smalleek:
hey, wait, isnt that a... unnh, im so sleepy now... zzz... :smallsigh:

[Sijo]

Well I guess I'm the only one (so far) who didn't like this strip.

First, it's another filler. Could we please get back to the story which is already an overly long sideline of the main one?

Second, I just don't like mean-spirited humor. Jokes about teenagers losing motor skills make me cringe, not giggle. I know the Giant has this really mean side to his humor that he feels he must unleash periodically (it's the whole reason for Belkar's existence) but it's not his only funny side, otherwise I would not even be reading this strip. I just prefer him clever rather than mean.

On the other hand, he gets points for making such an elaborate strip full of multiple references. It's just that, to me, it didn't feel like an OOTS strip.

:smallannoyed:

[Scarlet Knight]

@EvilDMMk3: In New York at Thanksgiving, Macy's (a department store) hold a parade.


I am not sure how parades are held in other countries, but in the US, big, annual parades like Macy's, are televised. Invariably with 2 perky commentators ( almost always one man & one woman) who explain & comment on the bands and floats for the television audience. Popular parades have marching bands, beauty queens, civic groups, oversized ballons, and floats which often promote television shows or products.

[SteveMB]

i miss Judy :smalleek:

Who is this "Judy", citizen? Cathy is Bob's co-host. Cathy has always been Bob's co-host.

[Strife Warzeal]

First, it's another filler. Could we please get back to the story which is already an overly long sideline of the main one?


But this isn't filler it's been part of the requirement to get information on girard, as per Tarquin's speech in strip 727 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html) panels 8-9.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

"Let's celebrate, remember a year in in the life of a PC!"

Is the repetition of the word "in" deliberate?

I'm enjoying this storyline, even if it is a diversion from the main plot about the gates. It does feel like it's been awhile since we've seen what Xykon, Redcloak, and their respective followers are doing, though.

[Psyren]

I'm just glad to see Haley's (albeit scraggly) ponytail again. The rest of this strip doesn't matter alongside that :smallsmile:

[Mordaenor]

Hurt and Burnie! I love it! :smallredface:

[The Pilgrim]

Once again, proof is given that there is no contingency uncapable of being solved through an adequate application of Violence.

[faustin]

It is only me or Bob made Judy spoil about the Death S... ejem, i mean the Bleedingham Amateur Snorkeling Club INTENTIONALLY?

[Blaznak]

Too Much, Too Funny. Well done!

[Mr. Snuggles]

Well from what my acting roommate said ( if i understood him correctly) Rent is BASED off a musical play. "Rent" on the other hand is a famous award winning Movie that came out years ago, was famous for the story it told, loved by many, made fun of in another movie(that puppet one the song was "Everyone has AIDs". I know at least half a dozen people who I could put money on they have seen this movie, while I know of one person that Knits.
Errr...you have a roommate who is an actor, and he (and you) are thoroughly familiar with Rent? And despite the fact that 3% of Americans (that's NINE MILLION people) knit as a hobby, you think it's not mainstream? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're out of touch, buddy. It's the typical "everyone I know does this" where you can substitute your own "everyone" for whatever seems to be normal around you. Don't project this to everyone else, for they think differently than you. If you can't wrap your mind around this, then you're just as provincial and blinkered as any Appalachian hillbilly. "Why, yeah! Ever'one around here knows at least a half dozen people who done gone blind from moonshine! I knows only one person who's seen dat movie Rent."

[BridgeCity]

Errr...you have a roommate who is an actor, and he (and you) are thoroughly familiar with Rent? And despite the fact that 3% of Americans (that's NINE MILLION people) knit as a hobby, you think it's not mainstream? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're out of touch, buddy. It's the typical "everyone I know does this" where you can substitute your own "everyone" for whatever seems to be normal around you. Don't project this to everyone else, for they think differently than you. If you can't wrap your mind around this, then you're just as provincial and blinkered as any Appalachian hillbilly. "Why, yeah! Ever'one around here knows at least a half dozen people who done gone blind from moonshine! I knows only one person who's seen dat movie Rent."

I think you are being a little harsh there. Rent is a Tony award winning musical that had a 12 year long run on broadway, making it the 9th longest running broadway musical. It really is very well known, it just seems that quite a few OOTS readers have not heard of it for some reason.

[Sammich]

Miss Bloodstain...

Oh dear.

[Locnil]

This comic was great, but I'm hoping to get back to the main quest soon.
Still, the snorkelling club was awesome.:smallwink:

[Xodiac]

I am not sure how parades are held in other countries, but in the US, big, annual parades like Macy's, are televised. Invariably with 2 perky commentators ( almost always one man & one woman) who explain & comment on the bands and floats for the television audience. Popular parades have marching bands, beauty queens, civic groups, oversized ballons, and floats which often promote television shows or products.

Actually, I can only think of two regularly-scheduled parades that are televised nationally. Well, three, but the third happens only every four years, at our President's inauguration.

The other two are the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in New York City, and the Rose Bowl Parade in... Pasedena, I think. There are other parades that get air time, but usually on a local or at best state level.

If I'm wrong and there are other regularly-scheduled nationally-televised parades, I'm sure someone will correct me, but I can't think of any.

[JoseB]

There is an even more important thing to deal with!

What is that hideous thing in the middle of Bluddy's face?? :smallbiggrin:

[ThunderCat]

Errr...you have a roommate who is an actor, and he (and you) are thoroughly familiar with Rent? And despite the fact that 3% of Americans (that's NINE MILLION people) knit as a hobby, you think it's not mainstream? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're out of touch, buddy. It's the typical "everyone I know does this" where you can substitute your own "everyone" for whatever seems to be normal around you. Don't project this to everyone else, for they think differently than you. If you can't wrap your mind around this, then you're just as provincial and blinkered as any Appalachian hillbilly. "Why, yeah! Ever'one around here knows at least a half dozen people who done gone blind from moonshine! I knows only one person who's seen dat movie Rent."I think there's a difference between doing and knowing. Knitting and fishing is something you do, and if you aren't interested in it, you probably don't know more than the basics, while movies, plays, and music is something more people are familiar with even when they aren't into it. I'm sure you could find pop-sensations who've sold less than nine million albums but are still known by a larger number of people than that.

I don't knit, and I don't watch Broadway shows, but whereas I probably wouldn't understand a knitting joke, I still got the pun on 'rend', despite being a foreign speaker. Of course, part of the reason I got it might be that a very weird trio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N_u4Ea91jM) (the 'singing' starts around 1.25) here used a song from it to audition for X-Factor, so now I can't forget that play.

[binyamin20]

Bloody heck! Tha' was grand, it was!

[Gwynfrid]

Even though I lack many of the proper references, this was an awesome strip. The spoofing of American-style TV commentary is hilarious. I love it how Bob doesn't miss a beat (OK, just a little one) in the last panel.

Thanks, Rich !

[Tundar]

Hurt and Burnie. I'd love to see more of those two guys :smallbiggrin:

[Acero]

So much win in so few panels.....
If someone makes me a Bob Bloodcamel avatar, I would be happy to change my forum name

[Jayabalard]

The F-horn is backwards; it's played with the left hand on the rotors, right hand in the bell.

[Scarlet Knight]

Actually, I can only think of two regularly-scheduled parades that are televised nationally. Well, three, but the third happens only every four years, at our President's inauguration.

The other two are the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in New York City, and the Rose Bowl Parade in... Pasedena, I think. There are other parades that get air time, but usually on a local or at best state level.

If I'm wrong and there are other regularly-scheduled nationally-televised parades, I'm sure someone will correct me, but I can't think of any.

You may be right. I am so used to seeing the St Patrick's Day , Columbus day, & Halloween Parades in NY that I forget they may not be televised elsewhere.

[Scarlet Knight]

The F-horn is backwards; it's played with the left hand on the rotors, right hand in the bell.

Well , it IS a sinister land...:smallsmile:

[BridgeCity]

Well , it IS a sinister land...:smallsmile:

What an underhanded pun to pull out.
I love it.

[CelestialMagpie]

Ah, the joys of joyous Mace-y parades... :smallsmile:

I also enjoyed the "Rend" song, if only because the original "Rent" song was so overplayed in the first couple of years after its release.

I don't mind that this is more second-stringing of plot - I'm always interested to see how Giant will parody American ceremonies, and this one touched on all the bases - the marching bands, princesses, giant floats, popular music/television references. I'm impressed at how detailed everything was!

Also, to whomever asked it - the queen is above everyone, on her throne (...being awesome). I wonder who the "Santa" of everything is going to be? Finally, I'll bet that even though the fight isn't scheduled till the next day, they're going to see Roy and Belkar being marched past, and Tarquin will say something about the upcoming death match, which will spur everyone to action.

[deuxhero]

What's with her square butt? I thought all females in OOTS had round butts, especially the African-American females?


It's not exactly new. Miko had it for for one. And is there even an "Africa" or "America" in OotS-verse :)?

[warmachine]

That obsession with blood and violence shows it's a ****ed up society.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I love how the Empire of Blood is multi-cultural & multi racial, theyintegrate everyone into their fun (or at least in the death squad):smallbiggrin:

Great Comic Giant.... is it bad that I would have loved to see sanguine Ave?

[hoverfrog]

Bluddy looks almost exactly like the UK's blood service Billy Blood Drop (http://www.blood.co.uk/funzone/). Next time I give blood I'll remember Bluddy.

[fruityjanitor]

I like how Little Roc is both Big Bird's evil opposite and the name of a city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock) :smallsmile:

Edit: And I am also betting the Death Squad is going to be pitted against our heroes in the not-too-distant future

[Morph Bark]

There's only ONE balloon. He must be evil for being such a cheapskate.

I've been to quite some parades. None of them had balloons bigger than a human head. :smalltongue:

[Nilan8888]

Nice!

Although I only read the first page and this page of this thread, "facist" is spelled wrong in the comic, I think. It's "fascist", isn't it?

[suszterpatt]

Well I guess I'm the only one (so far) who didn't like this strip.

First, it's another filler. Could we please get back to the story which is already an overly long sideline of the main one?

Second, I just don't like mean-spirited humor. Jokes about teenagers losing motor skills make me cringe, not giggle. I know the Giant has this really mean side to his humor that he feels he must unleash periodically (it's the whole reason for Belkar's existence) but it's not his only funny side, otherwise I would not even be reading this strip. I just prefer him clever rather than mean.

On the other hand, he gets points for making such an elaborate strip full of multiple references. It's just that, to me, it didn't feel like an OOTS strip.

:smallannoyed:Disagree on both counts. The cruelties in this strip play an important narrative role to establish what kind of place the Empire is. Not just to us readers, but also - and, IMO, mainly - to Elan. And for that reason, it's not filler at all.

[ThreadKiller]

Each panel was awesome! Ahhh, can't wait for the next strips! :smallbiggrin:

[Alias]

Nice!

Although I only read the first page and this page of this thread, "facist" is spelled wrong in the comic, I think. It's "fascist", isn't it?

It is. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascist

[Red XIV]

Actually I like how every strip the tyranny becomes a tiny bit more blatantly obvious, yet Elan still manages to deny the alignment of his dad. Is it out of excitement that he finally has a dad, or just good old Elan stupidity?
I would guess that Elan realizes he'll have to fight his dad, because it's dramatically appropriate. If there's one thing that matches Elan's stupidity, it's his sense of drama. Tarquin probably realizes it too, for the same reason. But there's no reason they can't get to know each other before that happens.

[rainbowjo]

Errr...you have a roommate who is an actor, and he (and you) are thoroughly familiar with Rent? And despite the fact that 3% of Americans (that's NINE MILLION people) knit as a hobby, you think it's not mainstream? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're out of touch, buddy. It's the typical "everyone I know does this" where you can substitute your own "everyone" for whatever seems to be normal around you. Don't project this to everyone else, for they think differently than you. If you can't wrap your mind around this, then you're just as provincial and blinkered as any Appalachian hillbilly. "Why, yeah! Ever'one around here knows at least a half dozen people who done gone blind from moonshine! I knows only one person who's seen dat movie Rent."

I'm sorry, but how do you expect to make knitting funny? RENT! is culture, and is easily parodied.
RENT! Is one of the most well known musicals in the entire world, with its popularity, its message, and the fact that it was made into a major motion picture, a lot of people will get the joke. I don't think theres a single person I know who hasn't at the very least heard the soundtrack, seen the movie or seen it live. That includes the people in my gaming group.
Besides, 'obscure' references is what makes this comic great. Were all geeks here, outcasts. We have to celebrate(, Remember) the other outcasts too. :P

[Menarker]

Felix the Mensch was certainly an interesting touch.

Especially for those who know the meaning of the Yiddish word Mensch. Being considered Mensch was to be considered "someone to admire and emulate, someone of noble character. The key to being “a real mensch” is nothing less than character, rectitude, dignity, a sense of what is right, responsible, decorous".

[Nilan8888]

Errr...you have a roommate who is an actor, and he (and you) are thoroughly familiar with Rent? And despite the fact that 3% of Americans (that's NINE MILLION people) knit as a hobby, you think it's not mainstream? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're out of touch, buddy. It's the typical "everyone I know does this" where you can substitute your own "everyone" for whatever seems to be normal around you. Don't project this to everyone else, for they think differently than you. If you can't wrap your mind around this, then you're just as provincial and blinkered as any Appalachian hillbilly. "Why, yeah! Ever'one around here knows at least a half dozen people who done gone blind from moonshine! I knows only one person who's seen dat movie Rent."

I have seen about 1 play in the past 3 years. Maybe 2, but that's stretching. I have had no roommates that were ever actors (though plenty who were in Comp Sci.).

But I am familiar with Rent. I've never seen it, but I knew right away on reading this what the reference was.

[Gift Jeraff]

Also, I can't believe we've yet to see a blood type pun (unless I'm forgetting something). As soon as I saw the Sesame Street parody, I was expecting it to be called something like "Boulevard B-", just to throw in an Avenue Q reference in as well.

[smuchmuch]

That... is one pretty unsubtle ninja death squad.

[pendell]

I've figured it out. They actually ARE a "snorkeling team" in the same way that these guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL) could be described as "Frogmen".

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[HandofShadows]

Well, that's one way to make sure everyone is happy. Kill anyone that isn't happy. :smalleek:

[FoE]

What death squad? I don't see any death squad. :smallconfused:

[blueblade]

so what you're saying is that good and evil are all relative, and to each their own, so who are we to judge with our inadequate alignment system?

Did I get the strip right! Hooray for Tarquin being a misguided but lawful good force for justice all along!


</elan>

[silvadel]

Poor Cathy -- after being unmasked like that she probably doesnt have much of a future in the death squad.

This strip looks like it was a major pain in the neck to draw.

[Delusion]

"And once again, our parayers go out to the families of the runner-ups." SImply brilliant xD

[Aenghus]

That's a death squad. Note the 'X's on the late Judy Morningstar's eyes, and the green bubbles denoting poison. I would speculate that the death squad are only issued deadly poisons by policy - they are a death squad, they kill people.

To curtail liberties and maintain the regime of the present fascist dictatorship, oh, and censor the media - sometimes fatally.

[Sir_Norbert]

I like that word, "sanguineous". If I could figure out how to pronounce it, I'd make it the name of my next wizard character.
san-GWINN-ee-us

Menarker, thanks for explaining what "Mensch" means in Yiddish. I was only familiar with the German word "Mensch", meaning simply "person", so I was rather confused as to what the joke there was.

[The_Weirdo]

*Gives Judy the Vladimir Herzog Prize*

Poor girl.

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Herzog )

[Inhuman Bot]

Well that was.. Not particularly funny.

[didub]

I'm definitely going to use Hurt and Burnie in a future campaign of mine.

I think Bloodcamel is a hilarious name. Not sure why.

[The MunchKING]

I like the implication given by the previous empire being named Justania. The empire of blood clearly has a blood theme and is Evil, so Justania would likely be about being Just and be ruled in a Good based fashion.

Poor good guys.

Ah I thought Emporer Justin named it after himself.

[The MunchKING]

I cant help but feel I would get the joke better if I where American. Is this ment as a parody of something? Feels like it is.

The Macy's Thanksgiving day Parade.

Held in New York it's a big Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday parade which includes lots of floats, balloons of famous charecters, and bands.

[thumbprince]

Wanna bet Elan doesn't catch on and thinks it's the Best. Parade. Ever.

Dunno, he'd have worn his sash if he thought that :smallbiggrin:

[The MunchKING]

I like how Little Roc is both Big Bird's evil opposite and the name of a city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock) :smallsmile:

Edit: And I am also betting the Death Squad is going to be pitted against our heroes in the not-too-distant future

Next Sunday AD?

[The MunchKING]

I don't think theres a single person I know who hasn't at the very least heard the soundtrack, seen the movie or seen it live.

*raises hand*

That would be me.

[zimmerwald1915]

san-GWINN-ee-us

Menarker, thanks for explaining what "Mensch" means in Yiddish. I was only familiar with the German word "Mensch", meaning simply "person", so I was rather confused as to what the joke there was.
It means "person" in Yiddish too, but it carries connotations of being trustworthy, of having integrity, of being admirable, someone to emulate. A mensch would in all likelihood have a Good alignment, for what that's worth. "Felix the Mensch" is probably a verbal, if not literal, punching bag.

[hamishspence]

I like that word, "sanguineous". If I could figure out how to pronounce it, I'd make it the name of my next wizard character. It certainly sounds better than any Harry Potter pseudo-Latin.

As "Sanguinius" it's the name of a 40K Primarch- the Primarch of the Blood Angels Legion (later Chapter). Angelic-looking, with great white feathered wings.

His marines are normally very long lived with a taste for blood.

[Marnath]

Well I guess I'm the only one (so far) who didn't like this strip.

First, it's another filler. Could we please get back to the story which is already an overly long sideline of the main one?

Second, I just don't like mean-spirited humor. Jokes about teenagers losing motor skills make me cringe, not giggle. I know the Giant has this really mean side to his humor that he feels he must unleash periodically (it's the whole reason for Belkar's existence) but it's not his only funny side, otherwise I would not even be reading this strip. I just prefer him clever rather than mean.

On the other hand, he gets points for making such an elaborate strip full of multiple references. It's just that, to me, it didn't feel like an OOTS strip.

:smallannoyed:

People keep using that word, filler. It does not mean what you think it means. This strip advances a number of things, and provides further evidence that Tarquin is evil and yes, Elan is in denial.

This comic is not a comedy, Sijo. The references in this strip are sort of humorous in that they're subversions of popular themes in American pop culture, but the main thrust of this strip is deadly serious, in that we got a good look at how bad things really are in this country. Previously arguements could be made that it's not a bad place to live if you don't get in trouble with the authorities. Obviously, this is not the case if even high school marching bands deal with their competiton so harshly as to maybe never regain use of their hands.

[Iruka]

The F-horn is backwards; it's played with the left hand on the rotors, right hand in the bell.

It could be an Alto horn in the shape of a French horn, which is played with changed hands and also more common in marching bands.
But I like Scarlet Knight's explanation better :smallbiggrin:

[Wrecan]

Dire Ducky, sung by Burnie of Sanguine Street

Dire ducky, you're the one.
You make melee so much fun
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.

Dire ducky, joy of joys!
Those you're slaying sure make noise!
Dire ducky, you're my animal companion, too.

CHORUS: Every day when I
Make my way to the dungeon
I find a Large-sized fellow
Who's cute and yellow
and lungin'

Dub-a-rub-rungeon!

Dire ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky, you're CR 9!
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you

REPEAT CHORUS

Dire ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky you're CR 9
Dire ducky I'm awfully fond of...
(Though I think I'd fear a big pond of)
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you!

Do doo be do!

[hamishspence]

Previously arguements could be made that it's not a bad place to live if you don't get in trouble with the authorities. Obviously, this is not the case if even high school marching bands deal with their competiton so harshly as to maybe never regain use of their hands.

Yup- it shows that, whether or not the evil started at the top, it has "filtered down" so to speak- evil behaviour has become the norm at lower tiers, not just the leadership.

It could be said to be an Evil country- not an Neutral country with Evil power centers.

[FlawedParadigm]

Oddly, no one commented on what I thought the real humour was...Bob not even noticing Judy became incapacitated. He keeps right on smiling and is so distracted about being a good publicity figure, wrapped up in his own self-image, he doesn't even notice his colleague flopping down on the ground or the fact that a different voice is now co-hosting with him.

That's some pretty epic megalomania there.

[Sylthia]

It seems that they take "Battle of the Bands" quite literally. I will now picture dozens of bards in combat whenever I hear the term now.

[Wrecan]

Oddly, no one commented on what I thought the real humour was...Bob not even noticing Judy became incapacitated.
I'm sure he noticed. He's smart enough not to call attention to it, lest he also be replaced by a "SCUBA-diver".

[Marnath]

Oddly, no one commented on what I thought the real humour was...Bob not even noticing Judy became incapacitated. He keeps right on smiling and is so distracted about being a good publicity figure, wrapped up in his own self-image, he doesn't even notice his colleague flopping down on the ground or the fact that a different voice is now co-hosting with him.

That's some pretty epic megalomania there.

Actually, I took it as he got her killed on purpose. Take third to last panel, he asks her "I'm not familiar with this next group, can you shed some light on this for me?"

[Edhelras]

Ouch. It really hurts thinking about that poor 3-year old who lost her mama. I have two little daughters myself - parents dying from their kids isn't that funny anymore...

BUT I assume the Giant didn't really make that connection when he wrote the comic.

[ThunderCat]

People keep using that word, filler. It does not mean what you think it means. This strip advances a number of things, and provides further evidence that Tarquin is evil and yes, Elan is in denial.Not to mention that with the parade being under way for 16 strips, it would be kind of a letdown not to see it.

[Giggling Ghast]

I think the EoB takes the whole "blood" theme a bit too far ...

[silvadel]

Actually, I took it as he got her killed on purpose. Take third to last panel, he asks her "I'm not familiar with this next group, can you shed some light on this for me?"

More like hot potato hot potato... I dont want to get into trouble -- maybe you will take the bomb....

And she ran with it...

[Terbovus]

I want a plush Bluddy! :smallamused:

[Edhelras]

The F-horn is backwards; it's played with the left hand on the rotors, right hand in the bell.

You're right - I play the French horn myself.

BUT - It might as well be what we in Norway call the "mellophone", which is not exactly the same as the alto horn.

I found this Wiki entry on the mellophone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melophone - strangely enough, it depicts an instrument unlike the mellophone I used to play. Our mellophones were (like mentioned in the text, but not shown in picture) similar to French horns, but turned the other way round. Also, they were made of a different metal, thicker than the delicate brass of the French horn.

Most importantly, the mellophone has a rotten sound, it's impossible to make it sound pretty, and I think that having to play the mellophone was a major reason I turned into a dysfunctional nerd, as a child... :smallfrown:

We always learned that the reason mellophones were invented was because they were technically easier to play on (meaning: easier to produce sound, and no matter how incompetent you were, you couldn't play any lousier than the most competent player, because of the limitations of the instrument itself...) than French horns, and they were lighter and easier to carry when marching. So I always blamed those American marching bands for my misfortune. How interesting, then, that they later have taken the logical steps of converting the mellophone into a trumpet-like instrument simply meant for marching.

Anyway - since the Giant has drawn an old-style mellophone - that might fit well to the "medieval style" of typical DnD, although the round mellophone isn't actually that old...

[faustin]

Oddly, no one commented on what I thought the real humour was...Bob not even noticing Judy became incapacitated. He keeps right on smiling and is so distracted about being a good publicity figure, wrapped up in his own self-image, he doesn't even notice his colleague flopping down on the ground or the fact that a different voice is now co-hosting with him.

That's some pretty epic megalomania there.


As I said in page 3: "It is only me or Bob made Judy spoil about the Death S... ejem, i mean the Bleedingham Amateur Snorkeling Club INTENTIONALLY?"

[DBear]

If you're wondering why Oscar the Grouch's opposite is named Felix the Mensch, ask your (grand):parents about an old TV show called "The Odd Couple".

[Edhelras]

BTW, the flutist is also holding his instrument the wrong way...

He-he, probably good for us that the Giant didn't spend his childhood years playing in a marching band... :smallsmile:

[zimmerwald1915]

If you're wondering why Oscar the Grouch's opposite is named Felix the Mensch, ask your (grand):parents about an old TV show called "The Odd Couple".
It was a movie before it was a TV show, and a play before it was a movie. By Neil Simon.

[Deuce]

It was a movie before it was a TV show, and a play before it was a movie. By Neil Simon.

But the TV show did have a very snappy theme song. :smallbiggrin:

[Deatheater]

Ah, Judy, we hardly knew ye.

Yeah, that killed the laugh for me. I can't get over the fact she had a 3 year old. Oh well, they can't all be funny for everyone all the time....

[Niveus Candidus]

Re: The Strip
How closely this mimics the actual Macey's parade is what makes me smile the most. I grew up in NYC, where the event is a big part of the culture on Thanksgiving.

Re: The Implications
The question of Tarquin's alignment is not self-denial. Those who predict a surprise reveal can read the horrific deeds that occur in this place as well as anyone. Our belief that he is not, in fact, an antagonist is genre-savy. We expect a twist; such as the horrific Blood Empire being the result of careful social-engineering in the attempt to establish order and an eventual utopia. Please note, Tarquin already knew his son was a protagonist in strip 0724 when he stated belief that Elan would "Like what I'm doing around here once he gets to see--"

That last part is still mysterious. My vote is Elan will see his father as a monster and flee from the Empire. In the most dramatic fashion possible, Tarquin will watch Elan running into the sunset, hand-in-hand with Haley, and he would reveal his benevolent plan.

[Deatheater]

Ouch. It really hurts thinking about that poor 3-year old who lost her mama. I have two little daughters myself - parents dying from their kids isn't that funny anymore...

BUT I assume the Giant didn't really make that connection when he wrote the comic.

THIS.

I agree--I'm sure it didn't occur to him it might come off harsher than he meant. Was probably working hard to make the funny bits funny...ah well...

[Demonicbunny]

I realize that Hurt and Burnie are primarily a reference to Burt and Ernie.

...but. **cough** (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/5/19/)

[Hardcore]

"Rent"? "Mace-Y"? Well, I have no idea either. But then I don't live in the US:)

[OracleofWuffing]

Does anyone else see a possible relative of the Kobold family that Belkar killed leading the Death SqSnorkeling Squad? Regardless of the matter, I'm happy to see someone on the Snorkeling Squad bring Shurikens. They'll definitely be helpful for, uh, examining coral reefs and, uh, feeding clown fish. Oh, and searching for seashells?

[Memplejemple]

The whole parade bit brought me back to last year's October 1st parade in Beijing. But the Giant's depiction is a little different. This regime is disguising its true capabilities, whereas an actual fascist regime would be flaunting it.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kBzK_eopfs)

[Knaight]

I realize that Hurt and Burnie are primarily a reference to Burt and Ernie.

...but. **cough** (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/5/19/)

Hurt and Burn, put together, is not exactly an uncommon phrase. Penny Arcade didn't make it up, and they certainly haven't been plagiarized.

[Iranon]

I for one liked the little detail of giving the throwaway presenter a throwaway child... imo, this style of humour works MUCH better if it's slightly uncomfortable and this was a clever way to get you there without cutting down on the buffoonery.

[Asthix]

Clotsburg.

The 'Rend' song.

Amateur Snorkelers.

These are a few of my favorite things!

A happy ending for everyone!


Hurt and Burn, put together, is not exactly an uncommon phrase. Penny Arcade didn't make it up, and they certainly haven't been plagiarized.
Trust me, you don't want to know about who they were based on, Burt & Hernia...

[Scarlet Knight]

Dire Ducky, sung by Burnie of Sanguine Street

Dire ducky, you're the one.
You make melee so much fun
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.

Dire ducky, joy of joys!
Those you're slaying sure make noise!
Dire ducky, you're my animal companion, too.

CHORUS: Every day when I
Make my way to the dungeon
I find a Large-sized fellow
Who's cute and yellow
and lungin'

Dub-a-rub-rungeon!

Dire ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky, you're CR 9!
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you

REPEAT CHORUS

Dire ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky you're CR 9
Dire ducky I'm awfully fond of...
(Though I think I'd fear a big pond of)
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you!

Do doo be do!

Bra-VO! I will be humming that for the rest of the day!

[Izar Goldbranch]

Everytime someone says 'sanguine' I think of this exchange from Firefly:


Zoe: You sanguine about the kind of reception we'll receive on an Alliance ship, Cap'n?

Mal: Absolutely...what's sanguine mean?

Zoe: Sanguine..'hopeful.' Point of interest? It also means 'bloody.'

Mal: Well that pretty much covers all the options, doesn't it?

[Hithros]

Dang, while I was reading this I could imagine hearing the TV announcers' voices...I think the script suited the impression really well.

And I was happy to know what the "Rend" song was referring to.

[AMJ]

*raises hand*

That would be me.

My hand is also in the air...

do I feel like I am lacking in the cultural department? - why yes a bit :smallfrown:

[Maryring]

I've been to quite some parades. None of them had balloons bigger than a human head. :smalltongue:

But it's only one!!! Quantity over quality you know!

[DementedFellow]

Errr...you have a roommate who is an actor, and he (and you) are thoroughly familiar with Rent? And despite the fact that 3% of Americans (that's NINE MILLION people) knit as a hobby, you think it's not mainstream? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're out of touch, buddy. It's the typical "everyone I know does this" where you can substitute your own "everyone" for whatever seems to be normal around you. Don't project this to everyone else, for they think differently than you. If you can't wrap your mind around this, then you're just as provincial and blinkered as any Appalachian hillbilly. "Why, yeah! Ever'one around here knows at least a half dozen people who done gone blind from moonshine! I knows only one person who's seen dat movie Rent."

Appalachians hillbillies have even heard of Rent. I live in Appalachia :) But we don't call it that. We simply call it the mountains. And we don't talk like that. :)

[Atomic Knight]

Yeah, that killed the laugh for me. I can't get over the fact she had a 3 year old. Oh well, they can't all be funny for everyone all the time....

Ouch. It really hurts thinking about that poor 3-year old who lost her mama. I have two little daughters myself - parents dying from their kids isn't that funny anymore... This sort of bothers me... You see, I didn't find the death of the announcer to be 'funny' par-say, even though the events surrounding it *were* humorous... I just can't believe people are grumpy about the death of an announcer for an Evil (big 'E') empire. Why is that no one even bats a eye when Kobolds/Goblins/whatevers die? Am I to assume it's okay (and funny) when it happens to other races/species, but the second it happens to someone remotely close to *us*, it loses all humor? :smallconfused:

It's a comic strip, set in a world of D&D-Style Rules: These people are all 'NPCs', created for the sole purpose of advancing the plot. No one has complained that Justania was wiped off the face of the earth by these same people... So, yeah. Until we see a crying three-year-old, I'm just going to assume it's a one-off joke like the other dozen of 'em from the strip. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the fact that this is all make believe.


It's just that, to me, it didn't feel like an OOTS strip. That's the thing though; it was a perfect example of an Order Of The Stick strip. It had character development; plot exposition; pop-culture references... Heck, even combat. That's pretty much the entire foundation for the comic strip.

As for filler? That bothers me, too. If this is a "filler" strip, then every comic between now and the last panel of the final strip is filler... It's the journey that makes the story; not the destination. When everything is said and done and we can read it all in one sitting, this entire arc is going to be perfectly paced and hilariously entertaining; until that time, yes, every single strip is filler... So why rush it?

Blech, this is one reason I'm hesitant to post... I feel like I'm constantly attacking the sillier comments from the thread, and for that, I'm sorry.

Regardless, bravo to Rich for an excellent strip. Can't wait for the next! :)

[El Llamita]

I was longing for a two-page strip, thaaank you!:smallsmile:

[Gd8908]

My sympathy to the Platelet High School band... wonder what happened. Hurt and Burnie must have fallen out big time.... awesome comic!:smallbiggrin:

[veti]

On a geeky note - this is our first confirmation that OOTS years are the same length as ours, 365 days.

Assuming six-second combat rounds, of course...

[GreenMuffin]

I wonder if Burnie burned Hurt and that's why Hurt is hurt. :smallbiggrin:

[rewinn]

I didn't find the death of the announcer to be 'funny' par-say, even though the events surrounding it *were* humorous... I just can't believe people are grumpy about the death of an announcer for an Evil (big 'E') empire. Why is that no one even bats a eye when Kobolds/Goblins/whatevers die? Am I to assume it's okay (and funny) when it happens to other races/species, but the second it happens to someone remotely close to *us*, it loses all humor? :smallconfused:
That questions like these come up in a natural, non-hamhanded way ... in the context of a stick-figure comic ... shows the great quality of the writing...

...or character flaws in we, the readership:smallamused:

[Camelot]

Brilliant! This is the funniest strip in the Empire of Blood so far! I can't wait for more, especially plot. :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Tarquin and/or the Empress seem(s) to have a strange affinity for muppets. This is the second time we've seen them in the Empire (last time in the flashback of the gladiator monster), making five total. Hmm...


There's also a bonus Odd Couple joke in there.

Where?!


Well , it IS a sinister land...:smallsmile:

Oh, you dog. That's the best worst pun I've heard in a long time.

[Edhelras]

This sort of bothers me... I just can't believe people are grumpy about the death of an announcer for an Evil (big 'E') empire. Why is that no one even bats a eye when Kobolds/Goblins/whatevers die? Am I to assume it's okay (and funny) when it happens to other races/species, but the second it happens to someone remotely close to *us*, it loses all humor? :smallconfused:

Well, as noted I actually do have a 3-year old girl myself. The aspect of her becoming orphaned is, well, devastating. Don't be grumpy about my grumpiness - take it instead as evidence that even a "silly" stick comic located in a fantasy world can in fact trigger such strung emotions in the reader.

BTW I also felt quite outraged when, in Start of Darkness, Redcloak's little sister (a goblin, mind you) was slaughtered by the azurites. There is something about children, you know. At least when you're a parent yourself.

But again - no hard feelings towards the Giant here, only an acknowledgement of my own feelings.

[guayec]

absolutely brilliant

[Blue Ghost]

Reminds me of 1984. Brilliant.

[willpell]

Ow...my poor fourth wall.

Not a fan of this week's installment - way too over-the-top with its tongue-in-cheek. (If your cheeks are over the top, you need a facial alignment check.) This is even worse than the lawyers - the instant I looked at the first panel, I was like "why do they have microphones?"

And "Miss Bloodstain" borders on Unfortunate Implications (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications), IMO.

[toughluck]

Okay, so I'm not the only one who didn't enjoy today's strip as much as the rest.
Yes, we know EoB is evil and yes, we know Elan seems blissfully ignorant of this fact (or he's just playing stupid, but with Elan, I think it's safe to assume he's stupid, no playing involved). I'm acutely aware that Elan won't get any of the references (or will choose to ignore them) and he's still going to idolize his father even after this strip.
EoB is getting progressively more tedious as time passes and this installment didn't serve as anything else as driving that point even further home (and serving as set-up to drive home Elan's willful or blissful ignorance). With this much point having been driven, the home has imploded into a black hole by now.

[JonestheSpy]

Where?!


Oscar's evil (therefore good) counterpart is named Felix.

[Camelot]

Oscar's evil (therefore good) counterpart is named Felix.

Oh, I guess you could look at it that way. Felix also comes from the latin word for "happy" or "lucky," which is the opposite of "grouchy."

Oh again. Now I get it. =P

[AxeD]

This is the start of the puppet pantheon! Lead by Banjo the Clown (God of puppets) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html), his brother and rival Giggles the Clown (God of slapstick) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html) and joined by newcomers: Felix the Mensch (God of grumpiness), Hurt (God of Ouchies) and Burnie (God of Chaos, Fire and Duckies) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html).

If you think about it, can't you become a god if you have a huge number of devoted followers? By that logic, the cast of Sanguine Street are probably high ranked gods due to their influence over impressionable children.

[thalandus]

Judy had a three year old child :frown:

[Marnath]

Judy had a three year old child :frown:

Yeah, we just spent like two pages talking about that. :smallconfused:
Just because she has a kid in real life doesn't mean this OoTS analog of her does.

[Cerlis]

Well I guess I'm the only one (so far) who didn't like this strip.

First, it's another filler. Could we please get back to the story which is already an overly long sideline of the main one?



:belkar: "Whine,whine,whine. I'm Roy and I want more plot points. We can't all be the straight man, you know! Some of us tell jokes for a living!"



I would guess that Elan realizes he'll have to fight his dad, because it's dramatically appropriate. If there's one thing that matches Elan's stupidity, it's his sense of drama. Tarquin probably realizes it too, for the same reason. But there's no reason they can't get to know each other before that happens.

I bet their instincts know it and its obvious that should/when that happens it will be during the rising action. If it where me when the final showdown happens i'd put in some joke about how Elan and Tarquinn had been preparing. Like Elan getting a custom made shirt that would easily rip to tatters to make him look more dramatic and Tarquinn making custom blades for him and his son to fight to the death....Maybe Elan getting his hopes up about a cool magical artifact hand....


Well, as noted I actually do have a 3-year old girl myself. The aspect of her becoming orphaned is, well, devastating. Don't be grumpy about my grumpiness - take it instead as evidence that even a "silly" stick comic located in a fantasy world can in fact trigger such strung emotions in the reader.

BTW I also felt quite outraged when, in Start of Darkness, Redcloak's little sister (a goblin, mind you) was slaughtered by the azurites. There is something about children, you know. At least when you're a parent yourself.

But again - no hard feelings towards the Giant here, only an acknowledgement of my own feelings.

yea, thats why i sometimes say its only funny if its hyperbole, and i've heard recently from...some character "You're Hyperbole is someone's reality".

As a gamer and young adult who was recently teen, me and friends make constant jokes about death and distruction and of course even Rape jokes are mainstream. We joke about my friend being a ninja and so he fake kills me all the time. So it was a large adjustment when i found out my Boyfriend's sister was raped and murdered when he was only 18. So i've had to make an effort to censor myself.

So you should in no way feel apologetic. Its just sad you had to hear the joke and feel bad.

[BlueWizard]

:smallcool::smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

Rich, keep doing what you do!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kish]

Yeah, we just spent like two pages talking about that. :smallconfused:
Just because she has a kid in real life doesn't mean this OoTS analog of her does.
Huh? Judy, the OotS character, mentioned her three-year-old kid.

[thepsyker]

This is the start of the puppet pantheon! Lead by Banjo the Clown (God of puppets) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html), his brother and rival Giggles the Clown (God of slapstick) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html) and joined by newcomers: Felix the Mensch (God of grumpiness), Hurt (God of Ouchies) and Burnie (God of Chaos, Fire and Duckies) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html).

If you think about it, can't you become a god if you have a huge number of devoted followers? By that logic, the cast of Sanguine Street are probably high ranked gods due to their influence over impressionable children.That should be Felix the Mensch (God of Niceness). As a mensch is, as mentioned previously, a Yiddish word often used to express the fact that a person is a good person.

[The_Firenail]

Reminds me of 1984. Brilliant.

Technically, Nineteen Eighty-Four (all spelt out) is actually based on communism, not fascism, which are actually total complete opposites. But I see what you mean; both cases are based on total control of the media, as you saw in the comic. To clear it up, the "Snorkeling Club"=the Secret Police("thinkpol")

[Raging Gene Ray]

Judy had a three year old child :frown:

You shouldn't weep for her. As an orphan, the state shall adopt her and give her a finer education and training than Judy could ever provide.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

Not sure who mentioned it initially, but if you think knitting can't be funny, you need to read Little Dee (http://www.littledee.net/). In fact, I think the current storyline (not technically current; the strip is finished and is being reposted in reruns) is about knitting. One of the characters is a vulture who's apparently quite the knitter.

[brionl]

This is the start of the puppet pantheon! Lead by Banjo the Clown (God of puppets) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html), his brother and rival Giggles the Clown (God of slapstick) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html) and joined by newcomers: Felix the Mensch (God of grumpiness), Hurt (God of Ouchies) and Burnie (God of Chaos, Fire and Duckies) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html).

If you think about it, can't you become a god if you have a huge number of devoted followers? By that logic, the cast of Sanguine Street are probably high ranked gods due to their influence over impressionable children.

Don't forget Banjhulu.

[Dancing_Fox]

Ok. A fun strip - don't get me wrong by the next comment.

But gee, the American tag-team commentators in the Star Wars pod racing scene were irritating and really took you away from the feeling of 'being in another universe.' Now their equivalent is in a fantasy setting as well? Arrrrgh! Is there no escape?

Also, parades and commentators of this type are mainly associated with being an American thing I suspect . . . they're not immediately recognisable everywhere. (Yes, yes, many people will ge the reference, I get it, I get it.) It will be nice though to return to the D&D style campaign after this scene setting interlude, without such rampantly excessive fourth wall breaking moments to irritating pop culture. (Yes, there will be a comic left.)

That's it, end of rant. I must be getting old . . .

[Crisis21]

So that's what evil versions of typical civilization groups are like! Good to know!

I particularly like the implications over the 'miss bloodstain' pageant. (as a comic device, not in regards to anything resembling reality of course)

[Nimrod's Son]

On a geeky note - this is our first confirmation that OOTS years are the same length as ours, 365 days.
We've known for some time that they use the same calendar as us (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html), so we could have inferred that already.

[the_tick_rules]

Why did they bother killing her? Like they don't already know the score?

[Dr.Epic]

Tee-Hee! I love the pop culture references in the float! Hopefully the gladiator games will be in the next strip.

[thalandus]

Yeah, we just spent like two pages talking about that. :smallconfused:
Just because she has a kid in real life doesn't mean this OoTS analog of her does.


Yeah, in a forum with thousands of users, once someone mentions something, no one else is allowed to mention the same thing again. Issues are discussed on an ongoing basis on these forums, they are not discarded once mentioned -e.g. the nature of the MitD.

She doesn't exist in real life, she is an OoTS character, and she exists in one form on the fictional webcomic.

[Nimrod's Son]

Yeah, in a forum with thousands of users, once someone mentions something, no one else is allowed to mention the same thing again.
It's considered good form to read the thread you're posting in first (Or, if it's a particularly long one, at least the last couple of pages). Things might be discussed on an "ongoing basis" but it's annoying as hell to read exactly the same thing from several different people one after another.

[DougTheHead]

Technically, Nineteen Eighty-Four (all spelt out) is actually based on communism, not fascism, which are actually total complete opposites. But I see what you mean; both cases are based on total control of the media, as you saw in the comic. To clear it up, the "Snorkeling Club"=the Secret Police("thinkpol")

Fascist and Communist governments both involve total state control of the market, totalitarian rule, the use of constant foreign wars as a distraction for the populace, and a police state- either one would apply here and in Nineteen Eighty-Four. But considering that Orwell spent much of his time writing essays decrying Fascism, and fought for the Communists against the Fascists in the Spanish Civil War (albeit with a group of anarchist mercenaries who saw the Communists as the lesser of two evils), and in one essay referred to the "Fascist goose-step" as a pantomime of "crushing a face beneath one's boot"- an image mentioned by O'Brien in Nineteen Eighty-Four when he is talking about his vision of the ideal government ("If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever"), and I'd have to think that the government of Oceania is closer to Fascism. Of course, this is all slightly undercut by the fact that O'Brien mentions both Fascism and Communism as weak attempts at what Big Brother has achieved.

[The MunchKING]

Dire Ducky, sung by Burnie of Sanguine Street

Dire ducky, you're the one.
You make melee so much fun
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.

Dire ducky, joy of joys!
Those you're slaying sure make noise!
Dire ducky, you're my animal companion, too.

CHORUS: Every day when I
Make my way to the dungeon
I find a Large-sized fellow
Who's cute and yellow
and lungin'

Dub-a-rub-rungeon!

Dire ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky, you're CR 9!
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you

REPEAT CHORUS

Dire ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky you're CR 9
Dire ducky I'm awfully fond of...
(Though I think I'd fear a big pond of)
Dire ducky, I'm awfully fond of you!

Do doo be do!

OK< I laughed. That was good.

[Nenec]

Great strip, the comic was really starting to lose all its smack before we got to the empire of blood, while from there on it fully regained its humorous style. And I also like creepy homour.
As often, for not being american, I didn't get most of the references but that's what the forum is for.
Just for the fascism reference, I don't think it's really right, I think the giant picked up the wrong totalitarism. I can't say exaclty why but, living unfirtunately in the country that "invented" it, it just doesn't sound reflecting what the EoB is.

[Kareasint]

Kareasint, the song being parodied there is the theme from the musical, "Rent", which talks about the ways we use our 525600 minutes that measure a year (the period of time covered by the musical).

That bit of musical dweebishness aside - nice comic. I especially loved the Oscar/Felix twist!

I actually caught the reference. The parody that they did in Team America (2004) was pretty good also.

As for Judy getting killed with a three year old child at home, there are probably some forms that can be filled out to get permission to cast a Neutralize Poison and a Raise Dead (with the appropriate fees).

[factotum]

As for Judy getting killed with a three year old child at home, there are probably some forms that can be filled out to get permission to cast a Neutralize Poison and a Raise Dead (with the appropriate fees).

Well, firstly, who's going to be able to pay 5000gp to get her raised? Secondly, I suspect that any such form would have the BIG caveat "unless the person died as a result of lawful execution by an agent of the Empress", otherwise there wouldn't be much point even having a death squad. (Oh, and I think Raise Dead wouldn't also need the Neutralize Poison, but I could be wrong on that one).

[BridgeCity]

We've known for some time that they use the same calendar as us (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html), so we could have inferred that already.

His statment said we had confirmation. Your inferences are now confirmed. His statment was fine.

[The Pilgrim]

Fascist and Communist governments both involve total state control of the market, totalitarian rule, the use of constant foreign wars as a distraction for the populace, and a police state- either one would apply here and in Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Fascist goverments never implemented total state control of the market. Weapon production in WWII Nazi Germany was run through private companies, for example.

On the other hand, Orwell knew very well about media manipulation, because he worked for the BBC, boarcasting propaganda of the British Empire to colonial India. Not to mention that his left-wing tendencies began after he worked in the Indian Imperial Police. Not to mention his work elaborating black lists of intellectuals suspicious of communism tendencies for british goverment agents.

So, well, very much of what you assume as traits of a fascist or communist regime, are in fact full aplicable to any other goverment system.

And that's why, in the veil of the XXI century, 1984 resembles the developement of our own society, more than anything else. Because everything Orwell ever learned about Totalitarianism, he learned it by empiric, direct involvement. Police State? Yes, he worked in that, for the British in colonial India. Political Propaganda? Yes, he worked as that, for the British, against Gandhi and the bunch. A Secret Police with a net of informants and delators? Yes, he collaborated with that, for the British, depicting people like Charles Chaplin, Gordon Childe or E. H. Carr as stalinist sympathizers.


But considering that Orwell spent much of his time writing essays decrying Fascism, and fought for the Communists against the Fascists in the Spanish Civil War (albeit with a group of anarchist mercenaries who saw the Communists as the lesser of two evils)

The Spanish Civil War was not communism vs fascism. Was DEMOCRACY versus fascism.

Orwell never fought for any anarchist mercenaries (there were no anarchist mercenaries, by the way). He fought for the POUM, an anti-stalinist marxist organization (because of that, they tend to be incorrectly regarded as trotskysts, something they were not - Trotsky actually wrote a lot depising the POUM). They didn't see communism as the lesser of two evils, they WERE communist, and wanted to stage a social revolution in Spain. Much to the opposition of pretty much every other faction in Republican Spain (official, pro-soviet communists included). That's why the Republican Goverment disbanded them.

...

Anyway, I don't think this forums is the place to arge about politics.

[Gwynfrid]

BTW I also felt quite outraged when, in Start of Darkness, Redcloak's little sister (a goblin, mind you) was slaughtered by the azurites. There is something about children, you know. At least when you're a parent yourself.

But again - no hard feelings towards the Giant here, only an acknowledgement of my own feelings.

I'm a parent too, and yes, this humor has an uncomfortable component. As one commenter above was saying, being a bit uncomfortable is one of the reasons it's good.

That said, so far OOTS has been making tons of jokes about murder, war, genocide, torture, using people as tools, killing for entertainment and cruelty in general. Judy's orphaned child is strictly small potatoes in that context.

I'm fairly sure Rich is pulling punches sometimes, too. Any humorist has to thread a delicate border between what's shocking just enough to be funny, and what's simply gross.

[Sijo]

Well, I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who was a little disturbed by this strip.

Not that I'm complaining, after all this is a free website and the Giant can do whatever he pleases with it... but if I'm going to follow it regularly (much less invest emotionally on the characters) as opposed to just check it out casually, I'd rather see as few disgusting moments as possible.

Also, yes, this WAS filler: it didn't feature any of the main characters (except showing them from afar with no dialog), it doesn't advance the plot at all (Oh, The Empire of Blood was a Lawful Evil society? Really? I hadn't noticed! :smallwink:) It doesn't prove anything about Elan's father either (while I'm fairly sure he is a villain, ruling an empire *that's already full of evil people* doesn't prove it).

I guess what really bothers me is that OOTS has so many good plot points and characters (the arc with Vaarsuvius' Faustian Deal was superb) that seeing it meander is just annoying. Maybe the giant should start a separate strip for his Modern Day parodies or something.

[faustin]

The Spanish Civil War was not communism vs fascism. Was DEMOCRACY versus fascism.

Both communist and nazis got involved in the Spanish War (and thank to them it got even more bloody and violent). Historians say the Spanish War was the prelude ( and the Practice Field) for the Great War.

[ThunderCat]

Technically, Nineteen Eighty-Four (all spelt out) is actually based on communism, not fascism, which are actually total complete opposites.That depends on whether you place political ideologies on a line or a circle. Many people believe that the extreme right and the extreme left often have more in common with each other than with most moderates. This is especially obvious in Animal Farm, where the pigs, representing the leaders of the communist revolution, end up turning into humans, who represent aristocracy and fascism. It's a story of how, despite claiming to fight for equality and solidarity, certain communists ended up like the oppressors communism was supposed to stand against. I think both Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-Four are really more about how totalitarian factions are essentially alike. And Nineteen Eighty-Four is excellent for portraying many of them.

[hamishspence]

In 40K, the "wrap-round" principle sort of applies to the Ordo Hereticus faction of the Inquisition.

At one end of the scale, you've got the guys who use highly dubious psychic magics, and are almost indistinguishable from the people they're supposed to smite.

At the other, you've got guys who are so opposed to psychic power that they're on the brink of condemning their own Emperor, the Navigators and Astropaths whose powers hold the Imperium together, and so on.

So, the most puritan and most radical factions, are both so far into extremism as to be on the brink of being rebels.

[Scarlet Knight]

You shouldn't weep for her. As an orphan, the state shall adopt her and give her a finer education and training than Judy could ever provide.

:xykon: "Don't worry, I'll get you a kid's meal."

:mitd: "Will it have a toy?"

:xykon: "No, but it's made with real kids."

Well, looks like we just found a supplier. :smalleek:

[Burner28]

You shouldn't weep for her. As an orphan, the state shall adopt her and give her a finer education and training than Judy could ever provide.

Hehehehe... of course.. because they are Lawful "Good" :smallbiggrin:

[Edhelras]

Just GOTTA emphasize that I enjoyed this comic - all of it - despite this incident with the 3-year old. There's a vast difference between being touched by something you read or watch, which was probably not the intended message by the creator, between that and actually blaming the creator for your feelings. And this was just a little sting, not a big wound.

My most important result was that I got to remember how much I love my daughters, whatever happens, so for me the sum total was positive :smallsmile:

And again I'd like to say that wow! the power of a simplistic stick figure comic!

[pendell]

I have NO idea why the mods haven't come in with the Red Text on the discussion of fascism vs. communism, but truthfully I don't think either is an accurate description of the Empire of Blood. More than anything, it reminds me of the early Roman empire, where bread and circuses were used to amuse the people and take their minds off the tyranny they lived under. I think there was an explicit reference to that in-comic.

I don't think we need to resort to 20th century -isms to explain why LE types would have a Strongman sort of despotism. Isn't that what LE is all about? Imposing rules on others by force whether they want them or not? For the greater .. erm, what? Can't be the greater good. For the greater aggrandizement of the people on top, perhaps.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[rewinn]

Just GOTTA emphasize that I enjoyed this comic - all of it - despite this incident with the 3-year old. There's a vast difference between being touched by something you read or watch, which was probably not the intended message by the creator, between that and actually blaming the creator for your feelings. And this was just a little sting, not a big wound.

My most important result was that I got to remember how much I love my daughters, whatever happens, so for me the sum total was positive :smallsmile:

And again I'd like to say that wow! the power of a simplistic stick figure comic!

Exactly right, on all 3 points. I didn't feel as strongly, but I'm not currently caring for a small child, and IMO it's a good thing for a caretaker to feel more than a little protective of their charges. It's quite reasonable for parents to have strong protective feelings about their kids, and kids in general. How many of us would have made it to adulthood otherwise?:smallwink:

[JoeSkull]

Hehehehe... of course.. because they are Lawful "Good" :smallbiggrin:

well since they killed her with such ease it makes sense that they would kill alot of people with kids. And when your civilization has so many orphans you have to do something with them. Providing an education seems like one of the best options, right next to drafting them. An Empire that seems to be in a place that focus so much on war, being in the military might not be that bad.

[Barstro]

This is even worse than the lawyers - the instant I looked at the first panel, I was like "why do they have microphones?"

Because the particular sound-enhancing spell they are using requires some sort of focus. In this case; a rod with a sponge towards the top.

It is only your cultural background that causes you to THINK it is a microphone instead of an implement of magic. Stop oppressing their culture...

[Nimrod's Son]

His statment said we had confirmation. Your inferences are now confirmed. His statment was fine.
I wasn't correcting him, I was expanding on what he said.

That said, though, Rend is a work of fiction and as such doesn't necessarily use a real-world calendar. I'd argue that the fact that we've seen solid evidence that their months are named like ours is actually better evidence of a 365-day year than a song from a play. :smalltongue:


Maybe the giant should start a separate strip for his Modern Day parodies or something.
Dude, in case you haven't noticed, your quest to convince people that OotS is getting worse isn't working. You post your disappointment in nearly every discussion thread ("This one's too sexy!" "This one's too mean!"), and pretty much the only time you mention ANYTHING else at all, on any of these boards, is to give a backhanded compliment like "This is the first strip in ages that I actually enjoyed".

We get it. You hate jokes that even vaguely involve sex. You hate humour with a "mean" streak to it. You think any strip where the Order isn't fighting Xykon is a big waste of your time. You're not happy with the comic 90% of the time, so why not stop moaning about it and just go read a better one? Everything you claim to dislike about Rich's writing has been present since pretty much day one and isn't likely to go away any time soon.

[Wolfram]

Well, that's one way to make sure everyone is happy. Kill anyone that isn't happy. :smalleek:

"I'm glad that you're happy."
"I'm happy that you're glad."

[grimbold]

i really cant believe rich just did that...

[Moyza]

"Fun fact, Judy: that ballon is held aloft by the screams of enslaved air elementals!"

This, the phoenix pâté and "pegasus flank"… bad to the bones!

[The_Weirdo]

THIS.

I agree--I'm sure it didn't occur to him it might come off harsher than he meant. Was probably working hard to make the funny bits funny...ah well...

Or the Giant might have been making a fairly important point - one that's not funny, but is quite needed.

In a Lawful Evil regime, people who raise their voices against it die. Quickly if they are lucky, after a while of being tortured if not. That simple. With or without little children. It happens in fictional regimes that are such. It also happens in real-life regimes that are such. Central and South America in the 60s comes to mind. I mentioned giving Judy the Vladimir Herzog Prize for a reason. Judy's death makes a point: Tarquin contributes to a very LE regime. Affable though he may be, he's evil, specifically Lawful Evil. Trying to claim anything else about Tarquin or the Empire of Blood is about the "Lawful" equivalent to classifying Belkar as Chaotic Neutral.

[Marnath]

It's considered good form to read the thread your posting in first (Or, if it's a particularly long one, at least the last couple of pages). Things might be discussed on an "ongoing basis" but it's annoying as hell to read exactly the same thing from several different people one after another.

Exactly. "Hay guys, lol I just noticed this thing" gets really old after about the fifth poster that says it as if they're the first ones to notice.



I guess what really bothers me is that OOTS has so many good plot points and characters (the arc with Vaarsuvius' Faustian Deal was superb) that seeing it meander is just annoying. Maybe the giant should start a separate strip for his Modern Day parodies or something.

Then stop reading it? You not enjoying the comic has no impact on everyone else that likes it. I like the pacing of this strip, not to mention a parade which has been in the offing for like 16 strips doesn't count as meandering.

[ThunderCat]

Also, yes, this WAS filler: it didn't feature any of the main characters (except showing them from afar with no dialog), it doesn't advance the plot at all (Oh, The Empire of Blood was a Lawful Evil society? Really? I hadn't noticed! :smallwink:) It doesn't prove anything about Elan's father either (while I'm fairly sure he is a villain, ruling an empire *that's already full of evil people* doesn't prove it).As I said earlier, it was already planned 16 strips ago that Tarquin would throw a parade for Elan. I get how a strip with the characters having a random conversation with a random joke that has not been forwarded, have no bearing on the plot, and will never be mentioned again can be seen as filler, but showing an event that has been planned for 16 strips? That's different.


I guess what really bothers me is that OOTS has so many good plot points and characters (the arc with Vaarsuvius' Faustian Deal was superb) that seeing it meander is just annoying. Maybe the giant should start a separate strip for his Modern Day parodies or something.The modern references have been part of the strip from the beginning. I get that you like certain aspects of OOTS better than others, but that doesn't mean it's fair to act like they're not as integral part as the ones you like, and should be moved to a different strip.

[angroy]

Now ,although it might seem that microphones are out of place, obviusly it works by magic. :smallsmile:
Haleys Hairdryer: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0278.html - magic :smallsmile:
Mace book: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0739.html - work through magic:smallbiggrin:

I loved this strip. It was funny, and emphised the EVIL of the empire of blood.
I like the sesame street reference.

[Doug Lampert]

Ouch. It really hurts thinking about that poor 3-year old who lost her mama. I have two little daughters myself - parents dying from their kids isn't that funny anymore...

BUT I assume the Giant didn't really make that connection when he wrote the comic.

Why assume that? The Giant periodically does things to remind us that these people (and dragons) getting killed in the strips have families, children, parents, and other relations.

He does this for dragons and goblins, why not for human victims too?

Part of the point of the strip is to deconstruct just what many of the "heroes" are actually doing and what makes the evil people be evil.

Killing someone isn't any eviler because they have a 3 year old, almost everyone has SOMEONE who loves them. Killing ANYONE without fairly dire need is evil. Judy's death would have been just as evil if she'd had no children.

[Doug Lampert]

Exactly. "Hay guys, lol I just noticed this thing" gets really old after about the fifth poster that says it as if they're the first ones to notice.

Also, if YOU can't be bothered to read the thread, why should anyone else be bothered to read your comment.

Yes, there are a lot of comments on a thread like this. SO WHAT! That just means that lots of stuff has been covered. Read the thread, if it's too long for you to read then DON'T MAKE IT EVEN LONGER by giving us the 27th identical post noticing the same thing, and if you haven't read the thread then you have no way to know if it's the same comment.

People get Ninja'd occassionally, but if a post has been up for a substantial period of time then try not to duplicate it.

[Wardog]

That depends on whether you place political ideologies on a line or a circle. Many people believe that the extreme right and the extreme left often have more in common with each other than with most moderates.

Probably because when you get to the extremes, the extremism itself tends to be more significant than whatever ideology (left, right, or anything else) is being enforced.

Especially when (as is often the case) the extremists tend to view enforcing their ideology on others and killing/suppressing dissidents to be more important than actually following their ideology themselves.

***

As for the discussion regarding orphans and the effects of adventuring and evil empires on the families of NPCs: this suddenly brought back memories of Deus Ex, specifically when after fighting your way onto the ship that was being used to transport the plague to America, then hacking the Captain's computer and reading the e-mail from his little daughter. (Or, on a less poignent but equally jarring note, the memo about the MJ12 company picknic).

[Saph]

Or the Giant might have been making a fairly important point - one that's not funny, but is quite needed.

In a Lawful Evil regime, people who raise their voices against it die. Quickly if they are lucky, after a while of being tortured if not. That simple. With or without little children.

This. Of course it isn't pretty, but this is what HAPPENS in a Lawful Evil society. One of the reasons I love OotS is the way it can mix silly humour with really grim stuff and make it work.

[Edhelras]

Killing someone isn't any eviler because they have a 3 year old, almost everyone has SOMEONE who loves them. Killing ANYONE without fairly dire need is evil. Judy's death would have been just as evil if she'd had no children.

Now I'm just being argumentative, of course you're right in RL thinking. But in TV, movies, books and comics you know that some people are simply expendable.

Well, just like having a name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html) is supposed to protect the NPC, having a 3-year old should offer some measure of protection. Or at the very least - a post-comic lament like Judy has got in this thread :smallsmile:

But seriously, time for me to stop this discussion, I was touched by it but in fact I was more upset by noticing that the French horn was turned the wrong way and might even be a mellophone!! :smallyuk:

[toughluck]

I have NO idea why the mods haven't come in with the Red Text on the discussion of fascism vs. communism, but truthfully I don't think either is an accurate description of the Empire of Blood. More than anything, it reminds me of the early Roman empire, where bread and circuses were used to amuse the people and take their minds off the tyranny they lived under. I think there was an explicit reference to that in-comic.
Hard to call Roman dictatorship a tyranny. Those living in Rome were hardly oppressed. The empire was more of a socialist welfare state, where the country had to supply the capital with bread. And obviously, panem et circenses were used to placate unrest, but the unrest was due to the empire conscripting a lot of people to defend the weak borders since Rome has spread itself too thin.

As for the comparison, EoB compares closest with North Korea. The parade is obviously a parody of American parades, but the stark contrast between the pompous parade and the presumably oppressed everywhere else is obvious.
The anniversary parade:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/10/a_north_korean_anniversary_and.html
Some idyllic pictures with some tearing along the edges:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/09/recent_scenes_from_north_korea.html
And a peek at the true life there:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/04/peering_into_north_korea.html
And then going way down the rabbit hole:
http://www.itworld.com/personal-tech/125972/how-digital-technology-gets-news-out-north-korea

With the rampant slavery, it's hard not to draw similarities with North Korea.

[Tobimaro]

I'd like to see the swimsuit competition in the Miss Bloodstain pageant. And the talent competition must be a true fight. :smallbiggrin:

[Marnath]

Well, just like having a name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html) is supposed to protect the NPC, having a 3-year old should offer some measure of protection. Or at the very least - a post-comic lament like Judy has got in this thread :smallsmile:


Unless your 3-year old is the protagonist for a story later down the line, in which case your fatality rate goes up to about 98% due to most hero's having "tragic past don't judge me!" :smallwink:

[The_Weirdo]

This. Of course it isn't pretty, but this is what HAPPENS in a Lawful Evil society. One of the reasons I love OotS is the way it can mix silly humour with really grim stuff and make it work.

Aww, an English goddess responded to me. :smallredface:

[Knaight]

Regarding the mods, the communism and fascism discussion has stayed historical so far, with the tangents into the political becoming vague and going beyond communism and fascism.


Both communist and nazis got involved in the Spanish War (and thank to them it got even more bloody and violent). Historians say the Spanish War was the prelude ( and the Practice Field) for the Great War.
Sure, but neither the Soviets (it was them in particular, not just communists) nor the Nazis were among the sides trying to actually control Spain. Its just that both of them had different preferred results, and neither wanted an actual war between the two of them as it would have been a bloodbath. As was later proved with WWII, where the eastern front was a bloodbath.

[Gift Jeraff]

Judy was clearly part of the Death Squad, hence how she knew about them. She got her current job killing another reporter who was talking about them, just as Cathy just did.

She was probably telling the public about the Death Squad because she was pissed that she was forced to become a reporter.

How do I know all this? Well

[Cerlis]

Maybe the giant should start a separate strip for his Modern Day parodies or something.


but then it might be like that Comic Gutters by the Least I Could Do twit.

and no one wants that.

[2-HeadedGiraffe]

One of the most important things this particular strip is doing is pointing out that many (if not all) the citizens of the Empire of Blood are evil. Beauty pageants, band competitions, and children's entertainment are all full of violence. What we're seeing is that these are not just good people oppressed by evil leaders. These, at least a good number of them, are evil people. I don't think we had as clear a picture of this before this strip.

[Cerlis]

Maybe the giant should start a separate strip for his Modern Day parodies or something.


but then it might be like that Comic Gutters by the Least I Could Do twit.

and no one wants that.

-----------
and I hope Sijo is a hydra, for all the times he got his head bit off by angry poster.

------------
and I must be glancing over something but everytime i read the comic i didnt see anything about Judy having a kid. The person she's based off of might have one.

Also someone made a good point earlier. I dont think Rich came into this topic and said "Lawl guys, i made all these comix of peeps dyin , check it out". Realistically i do believe we all know many people who peruse the internet (expessially a comic that can be extremely violent) are amused by morbid humor, and that he knew that when making this comic. But...Intent aside, all he did is show that the horribly evil society is doing horribly evil things all the way down to the core. If we laugh thats our problem.

-----------------
as to the topic of Posting before reading (an entire) threat. I think someone's "right" to reply to the original comic supercedes ones mild amount of annoyance for reading the same line once or twice more than you wish.

[Strife Warzeal]

and I must be glancing over something but everytime i read the comic i didnt see anything about Judy having a kid.

The spot where she says it is on second page of the strips, where they introduce Sanguine Ave. "Right Again, Bob. My Three-Year-Old loves Little Roc,..."

Didn't feel like typing all of it, but it is in the comic.

[DougTheHead]

If you can't laugh at a relentlessly chipper news announcer getting killed by a ninja with a crossbow, your time would be better spent mourning your sense of humor.

And the kid won't be any worse off- news announcers generally start their workday around 5 in the morning to put together the morning news. That kid believes its nanny is its mother, and for all but genetic purposes, it's correct.

[Burner28]

Or the Giant might have been making a fairly important point - one that's not funny, but is quite needed.

In a Lawful Evil regime, people who raise their voices against it die. Quickly if they are lucky, after a while of being tortured if not. That simple. With or without little children. It happens in fictional regimes that are such. It also happens in real-life regimes that are such. Central and South America in the 60s comes to mind. I mentioned giving Judy the Vladimir Herzog Prize for a reason. Judy's death makes a point: Tarquin contributes to a very LE regime. Affable though he may be, he's evil, specifically Lawful Evil. Trying to claim anything else about Tarquin or the Empire of Blood is about the "Lawful" equivalent to classifying Belkar as Chaotic Neutral.

Wow, I didn't realise how it could be seen that way :smallsmile:

Also to the person who felt uncomfortable about the whole orphan thing- it is understandable.

[Cerlis]

The spot where she says it is on second page of the strips, where they introduce Sanguine Ave. "Right Again, Bob. My Three-Year-Old loves Little Roc,..."

Didn't feel like typing all of it, but it is in the comic.

ah, thanks. Looking back on my thinking process that text bubble was probably the most glanced over one. "Yes yes evil big bird"

never really liked big bird.

[pendell]

One of the most important things this particular strip is doing is pointing out that many (if not all) the citizens of the Empire of Blood are evil. Beauty pageants, band competitions, and children's entertainment are all full of violence. What we're seeing is that these are not just good people oppressed by evil leaders. These, at least a good number of them, are evil people. I don't think we had as clear a picture of this before this strip.

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. How many of them are that way by choice? And how many are that way because they'll be killed if they won't act like that?

I realize that the heroic thing to do is to A) stand up to the evil regime and be martyred by it B) pull a Spartacus and overthrow the evil regime or C) run away to another country. HOWEVER,

A) "standing up to the evil regime" requires a great deal of heroism normal people just aren't capable of. That's why the martyrs of the first century are celebrated -- precisely because they were rare. Most people who were on the receiving end of, say, being burned alive as human torches at Nero's banquets, kept their heads down and their mouths shut. This becomes especially important when your entire family will pay the price for your defiance. People who are willing to risk their own lives are much more reticent when they know their kids will pay the price with them.

B) Overthrowing the regime has similar problems. Most of these people aren't PCs. If they go up against the Bloodies, they are going to wind up DEAD. And not just them, but possibly their entire families and village as well. There has been exactly one successful slave revolt in all of history -- Haiti in the 19th century. Rebelling alone is a recipe for death. Getting organized is problematic in a LE regime that has a halfway competent secret police.

C) "Flee to another country" -- which one? The empire of sweat? or Tears? Perhaps the Free City of Doom? While the EOB is evil, it does not follow that it's neighbors are good. They may be worse!

"Fleeing to another country" means running the gauntlet of the Bloody army, random encounters, hostile terrain, and the other country's army, all to start over in a new country where they know no one, where the jobs may already be taken, and which may be just as bad as the Empire.

Most of the people in the Empire are evil, say you? Perhaps. But it's also possible that most people in the Empire are just people, like people everywhere. Not courageous enough to be heroic or dare great deeds, just people who want to get on with their lives, raise their families, and avoid trouble. So they play along to the extent they have to and otherwise just get on with their lives. That's not "evil". That's just not heroic.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[hamishspence]

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. How many of them are that way by choice? And how many are that way because they'll be killed if they won't act like that?

That's the thing though- entering competitions where the only way to get ahead is to backstab the opposition (sometimes literally) is likely to corrupt.

That's what makes evil societies corrupting- the notion that to do well, you'll have to engage in evil deeds. It goes from "keep your head down and don't make trouble" to "join the rat race- and start being a total rat".

[Burner28]

Exactly Hamishpence, as of course seeing as OotS is within a DnD context, constantly doing Evil stuff for whatever reasons will make you Something Evil.

Regardless of whether you do it to feed your family(for example,those soldiers participating in slavery)
Regardless of whether you do it because of peer pressure(for example, a kid bullying nerds to avoid unpopularity from his "friends").
Regardless of even whether you are doing it as a mean to a good end (for example, kidnapping and sacrificing a couple of innocent people to save 6,000,000 more )

You will end up with an Evil alignment

[hamishspence]

At the very least, if you've done it, have no intention of atoning, and are likely to keep doing it, an Evil alignment becomes appropriate.

One-shot evil acts followed by repentance and attempts at atoning generally don't make for Evil Alignment though.

One of my favorite Theoretical Examples is the person who commits evil acts, for their own self-gratification- but only against people they genuinely believe "deserve" to be treated that way- and are unwilling to harm the innocent.

Still a habitual, unrepentant evildoer- so I tend to think "evil-aligned".

[pendell]

At the very least, if you've done it, have no intention of atoning, and are likely to keep doing it, an Evil alignment becomes appropriate.


I think we have to add coercion as a factor as well. "I did it because I would have been killed if I hadn't" is a different beast from doing an evil act willingly.

I suppose some here have read "The Gulag Archipelego". The society described in that book was a prison, from top to bottom. So is the Empire of Blood. And prisoners shouldn't be judged by the same laws and standards as we judge free men, IMO. Prison life debases everyone in it, guards and inmates alike.

I, a man born free, cannot conceive what it is like to live like that. I can imagine, but I've never experienced the reality. If there's someone here who HAS lived in a slave society like that, and can comment more intelligently on the matter, I'll listen. But I'm not qualified to judge. Let him who has lived in an LE society and survived cast the first stone.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[JoseB]

I think we have to add coercion as a factor as well. "I did it because I would have been killed if I hadn't" is a different beast from doing an evil act willingly.

I suppose some here have read "The Gulag Archipelego". The society described in that book was a prison, from top to bottom. So is the Empire of Blood. And prisoners shouldn't be judged by the same laws and standards as we judge free men, IMO. Prison life debases everyone in it, guards and inmates alike.

I, a man born free, cannot conceive what it is like to live like that. I can imagine, but I've never experienced the reality. If there's someone here who HAS lived in a slave society like that, and can comment more intelligently on the matter, I'll listen. But I'm not qualified to judge. Let him who has lived in an LE society and survived cast the first stone.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

I have memories of living under a fascist government (Francoist Spain). My father was black-listed by the government and endured jail as a political prisoner (including being sentenced to death for political reasons before his sentence was changed to a lengthy prison term). Our phone was bugged and I know for a fact that we had secret police checking on us. I was a kid but I remember those things.

Our neighbour downstairs denounced us to the police for (basically imaginary) "crimes against the state". Was that neighbour really evil? In hindsight, I do not think so. I wouldn't call him a villain. Grubbiness and nastiness rubbed off from the general atmosphere of the regime, some people might have been more susceptible than others, but deep inside I don't think people were "bad" (of course you will have exceptions, but that is what they are: exceptions).

(And the Spanish Francoist regime could be nasty with dissidents. Witness to that, my cousin. Forty years ago, he was taken away by the police, "vanished" for three weeks, and then reappeared at his house's door. He was 5 centimetres -roughly 2 inches- shorter than he was when he was taken away. He has never told anybody what happened to him).

But this is skirting perilously closer to political talk in the forum. If anyone wants to know more about those things, PM me.

[pendell]

Thank you, Jose.

I have questions which I will follow up in PM later.
Again, thank you.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Kyronea]

I cant help but feel I would get the joke better if I where American. Is this ment as a parody of something? Feels like it is.

It's a parody of the Macy's Day Parade that happens here in the United States every Thanksgiving. Among other things it also includes parodies of "RENT," "Sesame Street," and the general attitudes and ways of talking of the television reporters on the parade.

[Burner28]

I think we have to add coercion as a factor as well. "I did it because I would have been killed if I hadn't" is a different beast from doing an evil act willingly.

The motivation behind evil acts still doesn't really matter in an objective alignment system as the one used in Dungeons and Dragons which is why you can get Evil aligned Antivillains


And prisoners shouldn't be judged by the same laws and standards as we judge free men, IMO. Prison life debases everyone in it, guards and inmates alike.

Hmm.. There might be few people who would still disagree maybe, perhaps those less given to a sympathetic outlook

[Onix Blade]

Wow! One of the funniest strips in a while! Also, funnily enough, I know a group of people who are writting a D&D spoof musical and have already written a parody to the same song from Rent as in this comic! I told them about it and they had to make sure it was different lyrics, and it was. They said "Great minds must think alike!"

[pendell]

The motivation behind evil acts still doesn't really matter in an objective alignment system as the one used in Dungeons and Dragons which is why you can get Evil aligned Antivillains



I'll show my ignorance; is that what book of vile darkness says ?

Where I come from, a criminal act -- i.e. an evil act -- requires mens rea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea), criminal intent, as well as an actus reus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_reus), a criminal action. Only if both these elements are present can a person be considered guilty.

I think that's the root of my disagreement with you and hamishpence. You both argue -- perhaps correctly -- that these people are in an evil system and therefore they must be evil too. While the actii rea (spelling? Is that the right plural) is indisputable, I question to what extent mens rea -- intent -- exists in the hearts and minds of every single individual we saw in that parade. The evil acts are indisputable; I can see them with my eyes. The motivations behind those actions ARE important -- from a legal perspective, anyway -- and they are beyond my ability to detect from a few frames.

That goes doubly true in that I've never lived in a society like that. Someone like Jose can sit in judgement on them; I can't.

Incidentally, the distinction between motivation and action was the crux of the Order's trial ; no one disputed that the Order destroyed Dorukon's gate; the argument was to what extent the action was criminal and to what extent it was justifiable. That was entirely about motivation, not action, and it's why the lawyers on both sides would earn their money, if Celia had not been working pro bono.


But that's law, not D&D. How does the alignment system square this circle in D&D? Any BoVD readers out there?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Burner28]

Where I come from, a criminal act -- i.e. an evil act -- requires mens rea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea), criminal intent, as well as an actus reus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_reus), a criminal action. Only if both these elements are present can a person be considered guilty.

I think that's the root of my disagreement with you and hamishpence. You both argue -- perhaps correctly -- that these people are in an evil system and therefore they must be evil too. While the actii rea (spelling? Is that the right plural) is indisputable, I question to what extent mens rea -- intent -- exists in the hearts and minds of every single individual we saw in that parade. The evil acts are indisputable; I can see them with my eyes. The motivations behind those actions ARE important -- from a legal perspective, anyway -- and they are beyond my ability to detect from a few frames.

You know you're actually saying something that supports my next point. Whilst an character may not be truly evil at heart and may actually want to improve the world, ie they are antiheroes/antivillains if they constantly and deliberately harm innocent people( though some may say you don't necessarily require to harm innocents to be Evil aligned), they will end up with an Evil alignment if they appeared in a show/movie/whatever that operates within a Dungeons and Dragons context.
This is the major reasons why it usually really doesn't work out when people have for some reasons debated on, let's say, several characters from whatever shows/movies/whatever that never was supposed to operate on the assumption that some people are totally good and some are totally evil, but rather on the belief that both the hero and the villain have good traits and evil traits, making them both morally ambiguous.

And as for the population, yeah, to be honest, I really don't currently feel either sympathy nor particular hatred towards them, and I would argue that not only they had an evil alignment but actually are malicious enough to be selfish sociopaths with the exception of little children (I really can't imagine what the children's education consists of, but it certainly contributes to their arguable selfish sociopathy in later life), rather than desperate people. But maybe I'm being too judgemental on fictional characters.

Well, that is what i have to say

[cc_kizz]

…The drum major should have a different uniform, too. What's with her square butt? I thought all females in OOTS had round butts, especially the African-American females?…

If this hasn't already been covered: It looks like she's wearing a skirt. Like Miko. Skirts are square.

[mucat]

If this hasn't already been covered: It looks like she's wearing a skirt. Like Miko. Skirts are square.

Miko was wearing armor. Armor is square in OotS.

Of course, in the Empire of Blood, a drum major might want to wear armor too. Especially on her hands. :smalleek: