[3.5] Warlock/Shadowcaster Theurge?

[Cieyrin]

It dawned on me in the last couple days that I've never seen a Shadowcaster/Warlock theurge before and that it'd be rather neat to get the two together and cover each other's weaknesses, plus the fluff ties together pretty well, especially if you the Warlock powers are gained through association with Shadar-kai!

Delving into both classes and seeing the exact PRC requirement they can meet was the first hurdle, which unfortunately think trips me up. Shadowcasters can qualify by CL requirement, being able to cast X level spells, provided they don't specify arcane/divine, and by being able to cast mysteries of X level or a specific mystery. Warlocks can only meet an arcane CL requirement, not a being able to cast X level spells, since they can't cast spells. This cuts me out of both Noctumancer (Cast 2nd level arcane spells can't be met by Warlock) and Eldritch Theurge (Again, Cast 2nd level arcane spells can't be met by Shadowcaster), which pretty much scuppers me.

Is there a way I'm missing out on? Has somebody made a Shadowcaster/Invoker (y'know, in case someone wanted to be a Dragonfire Adept instead of Warlock) theurge PRC that my Google-fu has missed out on? Should I just forget my tomfoolery and 'Just play a Wizard' (a.k.a. be boring and unoriginal :smallyuk:)?

Let me know your thoughts, Playground!

[arguskos]

There's a Warlock/Divine, right? If so, the logic behind letting Shadowcasters qualify for Mystic Theurge as a Divine caster (a specific exemption called out for Shadowcasters) could well let you convince a DM to permit you to qualify for a Warlock/Divine in the same way. It's DM-dependent, but it's as good as you're gonna get I think.

There's no legit way to do it that I'm aware of.

[Psyren]

While you can't qualify for a casting theurge with these two odd ducks, you can use a theurge to advance them once you're in. So a dip in Sorcerer with an early-entry trick (say, Precocious Apprentice) would allow you to qualify for Mystic Theurge, then you advance Warlock with NM/MT instead of Sorcerer while keeping Shadowcaster in the mix.

So something like Warlock 1/Sorcerer 1 (PA)/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/MT 5 gets invocations as Warlock 16 (Dark) and Mysteries as a Shadowcaster 18 (9ths.)

[Cieyrin]

There's a Warlock/Divine, right? If so, the logic behind letting Shadowcasters qualify for Mystic Theurge as a Divine caster (a specific exemption called out for Shadowcasters) could well let you convince a DM to permit you to qualify for a Warlock/Divine in the same way. It's DM-dependent, but it's as good as you're gonna get I think.

There's no legit way to do it that I'm aware of.

Eldritch Disciple? I actually hadn't thought about that option but yes, as you say, that's a DM fiat thing. Also, the Mystic Theurge exception, as far as I can tell, can let you substitute Shadowcaster onto either side, so, applying that logic, you could do the same to Eldritch Theurge.

But, regardless, you came to the same conclusion I have that there isn't a RAW method of theurging the two. Pity, means I'll have to homebrew something and give it some flavor so it's not 'Revenge of Mystic Theurge'.

[Psyren]

But, regardless, you came to the same conclusion I have that there isn't a RAW method of theurging the two. Pity, means I'll have to homebrew something and give it some flavor so it's not 'Revenge of Mystic Theurge'.

Hey, read my post! :smalltongue:

[Tyndmyr]

This cuts me out of...and Eldritch Theurge (Again, Cast 2nd level arcane spells can't be met by Shadowcaster), which pretty much scuppers me.

Read the bit in Shadowcaster about how it counts as arcane casting for the purposes of Mystic Theurge and such. I see no particular reason you couldn't use that logic to justify doing the exact same for eldritch theurge with just about any reasonable DM. It may not be exactly RAW, but it's remarkably close, and it's extremely hard for a DM to justify it not working the same way in two almost identical circumstances.

You could also abuse early entry shenanigans, I suppose, if you wanted to blow a level on a caster class dip and a feat. However, this is likely a bit wasteful.

[Cieyrin]

While you can't qualify for a casting theurge with these two odd ducks, you can use a theurge to advance them once you're in. So a dip in Sorcerer with an early-entry trick (say, Precocious Apprentice) would allow you to qualify for Mystic Theurge, then you advance Warlock with NM/MT instead of Sorcerer while keeping Shadowcaster in the mix.

So something like Warlock 1/Sorcerer 1 (PA)/Shadowcaster 3/Noctumancer 10/MT 5 gets invocations as Warlock 16 (Dark) and Mysteries as a Shadowcaster 18 (9ths.)

The only issue I'm seeing here is Precocious Apprentice requiring you to take it at 1st level, so slight reshuffle of levels.

The other thing is I'd probably want to Creeping Darkness that Sorcerer level after getting into MT so it's not just hanging out there. Depending on how enforcing people are of the CW/CA PrC prereqs rules, it could work rather neatly, though I'm not sure where I'd shove in the Shadowcaster level to do that...

EDIT:
Hey, read my post! :smalltongue:

You posted while I was posting, can't be helped. *shrugs helplessly*

[Psyren]

You could also abuse early entry shenanigans, I suppose, if you wanted to blow a level on a caster class dip and a feat. However, this is likely a bit wasteful.

Wasteful, perhaps, but at least it's RAW-legal. (Heck, the waste might make it more appealing to DMs.)