PDA

View Full Version : Duskblade Feats 3.5



Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 06:30 PM
Hi, I'm pretty new to D&D and am currently playing a 3.5 campaign as a duskblade/fighter (the fighter part is because everyone said it was the easiest class to start in, the duskblade part is because I kinda figured out what I was doing and they pointed out a slightly more involved class that could be fun.)

So, a few days ago I just found out that according to the PHB2 you can retrain feats. I'm fairly happy with the ones I've picked, but I have the nagging suspicion that with some different choices I could be a lot better. I was wondering if anyone felt so kind as to glance at my basic setup and offer a suggestion or two. So here's the character:

Lefty Lvl 8 - Chaotic Neutral Human Duskblade 4 / Fighter 4 HP 67 AC 18

Ability Scores: STR 16 DEX 16 CON 13 INT 13 WIS 10 CHA 9

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Power Critical, Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)

(Relevant) Equipment: Two keen-enchanted masterwork +1 scimitars, 5 darts, a mithril chain shirt and a ring of protection.

I'm aware it's a rather derided feat, but I picked TWF before I knew that for reasons both semi-realistic and ludicrous, you can only actually use the second attack on a full-attack. I suspect it will pay off eventually, although I'm not sure whether you can Arcane Channel through two weapons at once - which, even if you can, for me will not be until Level 17. Also, I was thinking of having my next feat at Level 9 be Melee Weapon Master (Slashing) which I think might just make TWF worthwhile. And I'm pretty set on Quick Draw, as it allows me to quickly sheath a sword in order to make somatic gestures.

But I was thinking, are Power Critical or Combat Reflexes worth it? I like the idea of Combat Reflexes yet I don't think I've ever used it. And Power Critical has worked a few times, and it's nice to do something to boost the criticals since Keen and Improved Critical don't stack, yet I wonder, is there something better I could take? I thought of Combat Expertise, but I only recently boosted the INT to 13, so not sure if that gets to work retroactively like that. I also thought of Knowledge Devotion, but it just seems kinda cheesy. That leaves me with Obtain Familiar, as far as things I've actually thought of taking go.

Well, ramble ramble ramble. Does anyone have any suggestions?

AslanCross
2010-11-03, 06:42 PM
Combat Reflexes is often better used with a weapon with reach, since there are more chances for your enemies to trigger AOOs. For scimitars, not really.

As for Power Critical, I don't really think it's worth it. You do get more sure criticals, but in my experience the critical confirmation roll isn't that hard to make. Your weapon doesn't deal that much on a critical either.

What books are allowed? The feats Dodge and Mobility are pretty crappy, but they'll help you qualify for the Dervish prestige class from Complete Warrior, which is pretty much built on using dual scimitars. (You already have W-Focus and W-Spec, which aren't really that good either, but W-Focus helps you qualify for Dervish as well.)

Arcane Channel only works through one weapon, since doing so is part of a standard attack. You can only start channeling through two weapons as part of a full attack at Duskblade 13.

The Oakenshield
2010-11-03, 06:43 PM
Do you have Oversized Two-Weapon fighting for less penalties with wielding two one-handed weapons?

AslanCross
2010-11-03, 06:47 PM
Do you have Oversized Two-Weapon fighting for less penalties with wielding two one-handed weapons?

It does not seem he does. However, Dervish makes them count as light weapons, which would negate the problem.

I forgot to mention Arcane Strike. Arcane Strike helps the duskblade do what he does best---go nova. (Consume a lot of resources to deal massive damage).

OP, I'm curious: What spells have you picked? Those will be your primary source of damage, especially since spells like Shocking Grasp will also be doubled if you crit. Gives much more than W-Spec.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 07:29 PM
I don't have oversized TWF. I'm looking into Dervish, as negating those penalties would be a pretty sweet incentive, on top of the Dervish dance and improved AC.

AslanCross, I have the 0-Level spells: Touch of Fatigue and Acid Splash, and the 1-Level spells: Shocking Grasp, True Strike, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Burning Hands, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, Obscuring Mist and Resist Energy. I know that spells are the primary source of damage for a duskblade, which is why I'm so gung-ho to increase the possibility of critical hits with Keen enchants and Power Critical.

Although, it sounds like you're saying I could probably get a better setup if I were to trade out, say, Combat Reflexes and Power Critical for the (admittedly crappy) Dodge and Mobility, thus requiring only Combat Expertise to qualify for Dervish-ing. Perhaps I could throw that in in lieu of Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) and thus qualify to Dervish up the place at Level 9? Does that sound reasonable?

Blackfang108
2010-11-03, 07:32 PM
Note that you also cannot cast Somatic spells if you dual-wield. You need at least one hand free to cast spells with Somatic (S) spells, which most of the Duskblade spells are.

Take Somatic Weaponry, and you can do this. (note that, if you use a double-weapon or a 2h Weapon, Somatic Weaponry isn't required due to free action usage, but you cannot just "take a hand off" of a 1h weapon held in 1h.)

Aron Times
2010-11-03, 07:32 PM
Duskblade is a class designed to be viable all the way to level 20. You don't need to multiclass as a duskblade because it's good enough by itself (like the other classes in the PHB2).

Might I suggest asking your DM to let you rebuild your character to be a single-class duskblade? It will be 1.) much simpler than a multiclass character and 2.) much more effective.

Blackfang108
2010-11-03, 07:34 PM
Duskblade is a class designed to be viable all the way to level 20. You don't need to multiclass as a duskblade because it's good enough by itself (like the other classes in the PHB2).

Might I suggest asking your DM to let you rebuild your character to be a single-class duskblade? It will be 1.) much simpler than a multiclass character and 2.) much more effective.

This, in addition to my above comments.

also: 3.) adding fighter is (almost) never a good idea. Unless you have levels in Truenamer.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 07:35 PM
Note that you also cannot cast Somatic spells if you dual-wield. You need at least one hand free to cast spells with Somatic (S) spells, which most of the Duskblade spells are.

There's a Quickdraw feat involved. Freeing up a hand is not an issue. :smallamused:

Power Critical needs to go. May I suggest Improved Critical instead? Takes the threat range of those scimitars from 18-20 to 15-20.

Blackfang108
2010-11-03, 07:37 PM
There's a Quickdraw feat involved. Freeing up a hand is not an issue. :smallamused:

Power Critical needs to go. May I suggest Improved Critical instead? Takes the threat range of those scimitars from 18-20 to 15-20.

Does quickdraw make both sheathing and unsheathing a free action? (I haven't looked at the 3.5 version of this feat for about 5 years. Maybe more.)

Edit: double-checked the SRD. Even with quickdraw, sheathing a weapon is still a move action, so my point stands, unless you don't move. :smallannoyed:

gbprime
2010-11-03, 07:41 PM
Does quickdraw make both sheathing and unsheathing a free action? (I haven't looked at the 3.5 version of this feat for about 5 years. Maybe more.)

Edit: even with quickdraw, sheathing a weapon is still a move action, so my point stands. :smallannoyed:

So... sheath weapon (move), cast spell (std), draw weapon (free). What's the problem?

Blackfang108
2010-11-03, 07:43 PM
So... sheath weapon (move), cast spell (std), draw weapon (free). What's the problem?

There isn't one, if you're already next to an opponent. you cannot sheath as part of another move action, so you cannot move out of your square when doing this.

Somatic weaponry, OTOH, lets you use arcane channeling while moving.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 07:45 PM
Jeez, it better make sheathing and unsheathing a free action. Or at least a swift one, I'd think. Otherwise, it's a pretty poor feat. Anyway, the crit range on the scimitars is already 15-20, because I had them enchanted to be Keen, and it doesn't (rather speciously, I might add) stack with Improved Critical. So, nevermind that. I am somewhat amenable to the idea of remaking the character as a pure duskblade, although not sure the DM would go for it, as he's A) somewhat of a stickler and B) my brother.

Kinda vacillating between three options at the moment: 1- ask the DM if I can remake the character as a pure duskblade on account of I didn't know what I was doing, 2- stick with the character as is, warts and all, and all that, probably pick up MWM-Slashing to further boost the physical combat-focused side, or 3- Significantly remaking the character's feats to accommodate the Dervish idea. Not entirely sure what to do here.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 07:48 PM
There isn't one, if you're already next to an opponent. you cannot sheath as part of another move action, so you cannot move out of your square when doing this.

No, you use a move action to sheath the weapon. You can take a 5' step before or after this if you like.

And Quickdraw has the advantage that you can go from unarmed to dual weilding in one action and still get in a hit on someone. (Draw as free, draw as move, std to hit.) Without it, you need one move action to draw a weapon and ANOTHER move action to draw the other one.

Coidzor
2010-11-03, 07:48 PM
I would just like to reiterate that you shouldn't take equal levels of Fighter and Duskblade. Stop taking Fighter levels.

If at all possible, negotiate to retrain fighter into duskblade with your DM. Even at a rate of 1 Fighter level retrained into Duskblade every time you level up, it's still a better deal than continuing on in this vein.

Duskblade is much better by itself due to its spellcasting. Also, getting to level 13 for full attack channeling is very nice. And indeed, critical for your current TWF build. TWF is not good for Duskblades until level 13 when they get full attack channeling. Until then,a two handed weapon (removing a hand for somatic components is a free action) is the better choice.

Unless the off-hand weapon is Defending, it does NOTHING for you if you arcane channel. Which you should have enough spells to be doing for most rounds of combat, by getting chill touch to last for several rounds at the very least. So, I would negotiate with the DM for some way to convert one of the scimitars from keen into +X defending at a better rate than selling the scimitar for half price and buying a new one.

Duskblade Handbook Link. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.0)

Also, there is nothing cheesy about Knowledge Devotion. It's a legitimate and intelligent use of your class's skills to further your class's ability to fight which is the focus of your class and character build.

Blackfang108
2010-11-03, 07:49 PM
Jeez, it better make sheathing and unsheathing a free action. Or at least a swift one, I'd think. Otherwise, it's a pretty poor feat. Anyway, the crit range on the scimitars is already 15-20, because I had them enchanted to be Keen, and it doesn't (rather speciously, I might add) stack with Improved Critical. So, nevermind that. I am somewhat amenable to the idea of remaking the character as a pure duskblade, although not sure the DM would go for it, as he's A) somewhat of a stickler and B) my brother.

Somatic Weaponry removes the need to sheathe/draw when casting. It lets you use a full hand to make somatic components, such as holding two weapons.

Quick draw only has a stated effect on drawing, and has no other uses.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 07:55 PM
Anyway, the crit range on the scimitars is already 15-20, because I had them enchanted to be Keen, and it doesn't (rather speciously, I might add) stack with Improved Critical. So, nevermind that.

Ah. Good to know. In that case, unless you've got something in mind for a Prestige class, I'd look at things like Combat Reflexes, Close Quarters Fighting, or Combat Expertise.

If retraining levels is an option, Duskblade 8 is fine, or if you want more spell power, try Duskblade 6 / Suel Arcanamach 2 then jump into Abjurant Champion later and work up those Arcanamach spells.

Coidzor
2010-11-03, 08:05 PM
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Power Critical, Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)


Forget combat reflexes with a non-reach build unless you're qualifying for a PrC. Forget Weapon Specialization, it is a very weak feat, Improved Two Weapon Fighting is better and you can qualify with a stat-boosting item. Of the feats you currently have, only two-weapon fighting, weapon focus, and maybe quickdraw are doing what you want to be doing.

If you had more duskblade levels obtain familiar + improved/planar/draconic familiar would basically double your melee capacity.

As it is, Wild cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) might not be amiss to give yourself something to bullrush your opponents so you can get AoOs on them.

Also, you want a stat-boosting item for your intelligence so that you have the 15 minimum intelligence to cast all of your spells as a Duskblade.

Are Tome of Battle or Magic of Incarnum allowed? Those are probably a good source of feats to consider for your aims.

Person_Man
2010-11-03, 08:14 PM
Hi, I'm pretty new to D&D

Welcome. We'll see what we can do to help.



and am currently playing a 3.5 campaign as a duskblade/fighter (the fighter part is because everyone said it was the easiest class to start in, the duskblade part is because I kinda figured out what I was doing and they pointed out a slightly more involved class that could be fun.) So, a few days ago I just found out that according to the PHB2 you can retrain feats.

While that is in fact a fun and easy combination, strait Duskblade 8 would have been preferable. Feats are nice and all, but spells are far superior. So you may wish to retrain your feats AND your class levels, if that's what you want to do and your DM allows it.




Feats: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Power Critical, Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)

In my personal opinion, all of those feats are garbage but one. Combat Reflexes can be quite useful in that it can potentially generate extra attacks every round, but it requires that you get reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127732) and/or have some other combo that makes it useful (Robilar's Gambit in PHBII, for example).



Does anyone have any suggestions?

Spell Storing weapon enhancement: Delivers any 3rd level or lower spell on a successful attack. When used in conjuction with your Channel Spell ability, this essentially lets you make a full attack and deliver 2 spells the first round of combat. Dungeon Master's Guide.
Obtain Familiar feat: The Familiar rules are a bit complex, so you may wish to skip this. But the short version is that Familiars can hold the "charge" of any touch attack for you, and act on your turn. So during the first round of combat, they attack an enemy and deliver a spell, then you attack and deliver more spells. You can also Share Spells with a Familiar, such as Bull's Strength or other buffs. The later ability is more important for casters with things like Alter Self and Polymorph, but it still helps out the Duskblade a bit. Complete Arcane.
Improved Familiar feat: Makes your Familiar into something worth riding as a mount. Especially helpful if you're a small race, in that you can ride a Medium mount everywhere. Complete Warrior.
Arcane Strike feat: As a free action burn a spell for an untyped bonus to hit equal to the spell level sacrificed and 1d4 * spell level bonus damage, for 1 round. This applies to every attack that round, and so it works well with Two Weapon Fighting if that's something you choose to stick with. Complete Warrior.
Wands and Staffs: You can use every item that duplicates a spell on the Duskblade spell list, even if you can't currently cast that spell yet. Wands can be stored in weapons with wand chambers (Dungeonscape), and you can use the rules in the Dungeon Master's Guide has rules for making custom staffs. This gives you access to more spells and more spells per day, assuming you can find/afford them.
Eilservs School feat: This is more obscure, but worth it. When you strike a creature with a magic staff, it deals +1 damage for every 10 charges it contains. And if you strike a creature with both ends, you can activate one of the spells in the staff (on your target or on you) as a Swift action. Drow of the Underdark.
Power Attack feat combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7165087): This is particularly important if you choose to stay as a Duskblade/Fighter. This tends to be the main source of damage for melee builds. You can also get away with it using core sources (Power Attack + Spirited Charge + lance two handed) if you have limited books to draw upon.


I can give more specific and helpful advice if you let us know what books you can draw upon. That's just stock Duskblade stuff.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 08:23 PM
I believe just about anything is allowed, feat and book-wise. I assure you that any failure to make my character a world-squishing uber-badass is more a result of my inexperience than any limits on source material.

So, supposing I could retrain the fighter levels (started the game out with 3, btw, I really doubt I would've stuck with it if I'd had to actively choose it each time - I just picked Fighter 4 for W-Spec) and given everything that's been said so far, would it make more sense, even given the admittedly wonky TWF style, if I took as my feats, say: Two Weapon Fighting, Knowledge Devotion, Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar? Would that work better? It sort of sounds like it: I mean, Knowledge Devotion does seem like an adequate replacement for W-Foc and W-Spec, all things considered. And if Quick Draw doesn't even let me sheath a damn sword to wave my magicky hands around, the Nine Hells with it.

Although, I gotta say, if I end up being unable to retrain the Fighter levels, reworking everything for a level of Dervish doesn't sound all that bad.

Keld Denar
2010-11-03, 08:26 PM
Wait, Duskblade's have feats? I was under the impression that they just had class features called "Power Attack" "Knowledge Devotion" and "Arcane Strike" gained at levels 1, 3, and 9 respectively...

Hmmm, this is interesting news.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 08:34 PM
Just remember that knowledge devotion requires you to juggle 4 to 6 kinds of knowledge skills if you want to lay down the smack on all kinds of opponents. If you can only afford 1-2 knowledge skills, then you better hope for the right kinds of foes.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 08:38 PM
Ha, point taken. In fact, I was a little disappointed when I started reading up on them and found that all those three feat-ures you mention are pretty de rigeur and that I didn't have them.

Also, I've been given the go ahead to remake me-self completely dusk-ishly, so sky's the limit, I guess. Although I think I'll stick with scimitars for the crit range, although I'm open to the idea of only using one of the damn things, and Combat Expertise is probably more my style than Power Attack, although, I don't know...

Keld Denar
2010-11-03, 08:40 PM
As an Int based class with all knowledges as class skills, thats not a terrible assumption. If you were a human with an 18 Int starting, thats your 6 critical knowledges + concentration maxed. If you didn't mind shaving a couple points off your knowledges, you could probably keep up Spellcraft, but its not terribly vital for a Duskblade to know what spells others are casting. Outside of that...crossclass ranks in spot or tumble?

EDIT: A falchion is a larger scimitar. If you opt to go with 1 weapon, upgrade to from 1d6 to 2d4. If you can't do that, keep in mind that you can still 2-hand a 1handed weapon (you just can't 2-hand a light weapon).

For feats, I'd suggest 1 Power Attack, 3 Knowledge Devotion, 6 Obtain Familiar, 9 Arcane Strike.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 08:47 PM
Duskblade 8 is a great way to go. You're 1 level away from 3rd level spells. And keen scimitar is a fine choice.

As to Power Attack versus Combat Expertise... Power Attack is most useful if using a 2 handed weapon (does way more damage that way). If you're using a scimitar in conjunction with a shield, then Power Attack is okay and not amazing. (Raw damage isn't what a duskblade needs anyway, you can always channel things like Shocking Grasp through your weapon.) But more Armor class is always cool. :smallamused:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-03, 08:48 PM
Are you dead set on scimitars or you just want the crit-range? if the later, you can ditch the scimitars and go falchion! two handed so nice 1:2 PA returns and high crit range.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 08:55 PM
I don't really care about scimitars per se, I just want the sweet, sweet crit range. Although, now I'm pretty torn, because Power Attacking with a Falchion sounds awesome, but Combat Expertising with a scimitar and a big fat shield sounds pretty sweet too. I'd say it comes down to taste, except I'm thinking maybe I oughtta go the high AC route because me and the barbarian are the most melee-oriented characters in our band of chaotic mages and thieves.

Quietus
2010-11-03, 09:26 PM
I don't really care about scimitars per se, I just want the sweet, sweet crit range. Although, now I'm pretty torn, because Power Attacking with a Falchion sounds awesome, but Combat Expertising with a scimitar and a big fat shield sounds pretty sweet too. I'd say it comes down to taste, except I'm thinking maybe I oughtta go the high AC route because me and the barbarian are the most melee-oriented characters in our band of chaotic mages and thieves.

Going sword-and-board would damage your physical damage output, but it'd raise your AC... however, you could only use a buckler, because otherwise you'd run into the problem with somatic components.

As for the Dervish ideas, those are better if you were to keep Fighter levels, but you'll be better off as a pure Duskblade. After level 13, if you wanted to hit Dervish, you could dip two levels of Fighter for Dodge/Mobility at 14/15, pick up Elusive Target (complete warrior, defensive tactical feat that lets you cancel opponent's power attacks and trip people for attacking you) with your normal feat, then at 16 grab one level of Dervish for the dual-weilding scimitars. Or just work it in over the long haul.

As to feat choices, I'd go with EITHER the power attack/knowledge devotion/arcane strike route, OR pick up Obtain Familiar/Improved Familiar/Companion Spellbond to get a second "tank" that shares your spells out to 30 feet. It's a pain in the ass staying within 5 feet of your familiar if you're going to use it for combat, Companion Spellbond helps a lot with that. Outside of those, I'd count Knowledge Devotion and Arcane Strike among the more important of the "standard" feats to pick up, as if you're channeling spells, you REALLY don't want to miss with them.

BenInHB
2010-11-03, 09:27 PM
Two Handed Weapon > Two Weapon Fighting in general but especially for a Duskblade.

If you can I would ditch TWF, Power Critical and Scimitar feats and switch to a similar 2handed weapon, maybe a Great Scimitar (from Sandstorm) or a Falcion. With the feats you get back pick up Power Attack, Leap Attack, Knowledge Devotion, Arcane Strike, and depending on the order you took your classes Improved Critical as your fighter feat at 8th lvl or your bonus feat at 9th level.

When fighting 2 handed its a free action to take your hand on and off your weapon for casting.

Truestrike + Charge + Power Attack + Leap Attack = Awesomeness


If not at least pick up Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Valenar Double Scimitar

It will work like a pair of scimitars for Two Weapon Fighting and will let you wield it 2 handed when charging or power attacking for the added damage and accuracy.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 09:45 PM
Outside of those, I'd count Knowledge Devotion and Arcane Strike among the more important of the "standard" feats to pick up, as if you're channeling spells, you REALLY don't want to miss with them.

Yeah, because Duskblades have so FEW spells per day. :smalltongue: Knowledge Devotion is still a great thing to buy if you can afford more than 2 knowledge feats near max ranks.

Plus, you'd have to be a 9th level Duskblade to qual for Arcane Strike, so that's one for future consideration only.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 09:45 PM
Quietus, I'm probably more inclined towards PA/KD/AS anyway, given that my character is a brash young jerk (rather unlike me, I'm a reserved young jerk) but the familiar route sounds appealing nonetheless. However, does Companion Spellbond apply to familiars as well? I got the impression it was animal companions only.

BTW, really appreciate everyone's advice so far, it totally tells me I've come to the right place.

blackjack217
2010-11-03, 10:22 PM
There is a feat that allows you to learn all the spells from one domain as arcane spells. So you can get harm, which can deal 150 guarantied damage and is a touch spell. Combined with arcane channeling and the twf tree you can deal 1050 (150 * 7) negative energy damage in one round on a full attack. Which is just evil.

Coidzor
2010-11-03, 10:25 PM
^: That would be Arcane Disciple, I believe. Is of variable utility depending upon implementation. Can be pretty good though.


However, does Companion Spellbond apply to familiars as well? I got the impression it was animal companions only.

Realms helps says no to that one. I was sure there was a feat like that floating around though.



If you can get access to it, poison spell could be very nifty with chill touch, but you probably don't wanna get side-tracked learning the poison (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0)game...

Keld Denar
2010-11-03, 10:44 PM
Combined with arcane channeling and the twf tree you can deal 1050 (150 * 7) negative energy damage in one round on a full attack. Which is just evil.

Do note that each target can only be affected by a channeled spell once in a full attack. So you'd be best spreading those attacks out to get the full damage. That said, a reach weapon is really useful for threatening multiple foes in a single full attack, especially if you can get enlarged.

Joshinthemosh
2010-11-03, 10:48 PM
Wait, Duskblade's have feats? I was under the impression that they just had class features called "Power Attack" "Knowledge Devotion" and "Arcane Strike" gained at levels 1, 3, and 9 respectively...

Hmmm, this is interesting news.

This

But seriously I love Duskblades and these feats are all terribly needed. Knowledge Devotion(Complete Divine) will get you plus to hit and damage with a knowledge check which is great. Thank god for all Knowledge skills as class skills. And other than that, just take a Falchion and get Strongarm Bracers(Magic Item Compendium). They're only about 8000 gold. Gets you up to 2d6 damage with that 18-20 crit range.

blackjack217
2010-11-03, 10:50 PM
Still an utterly absurd amount of damage. Also 150 to one target is decent and to get reach you would be what? dual wielding spiked chains? Though after you start doing that I foresee a sudden increase in the local undead population.

Thurbane
2010-11-03, 11:09 PM
There is a feat that allows you to learn all the spells from one domain as arcane spells. So you can get harm, which can deal 150 guarantied damage and is a touch spell. Combined with arcane channeling and the twf tree you can deal 1050 (150 * 7) negative energy damage in one round on a full attack. Which is just evil.
A Duskblade, unfortunately, cannot get Harm thought Arcane Disciple - Harm is a 6th level spell, and Duskblade spells only go up to 5th...

Coidzor
2010-11-03, 11:10 PM
What domain gives Harm as anything less than a 6th level spell?

Edit: ahh, Swordsages. Wonder how they MC with Duskblade.


Still an utterly absurd amount of damage. Also 150 to one target is decent and to get reach you would be what? dual wielding spiked chains? Though after you start doing that I foresee a sudden increase in the local undead population.

dual-wielding kusari-gama is a viable tactic for reach TWF. Or, I believe, spinning swords from Secrets of Sarlona.

Whips/whip-daggers could do it as well by sacrificing the ability to AoO without getting armor spikes or sommat.

gbprime
2010-11-03, 11:21 PM
There is a feat that allows you to learn all the spells from one domain as arcane spells. So you can get harm, which can deal 150 guarantied damage and is a touch spell. Combined with arcane channeling and the twf tree you can deal 1050 (150 * 7) negative energy damage in one round on a full attack. Which is just evil.

(A) you only get one shot with the spell.

(B) Duskblades top out at 5th level spells, so Harm is out.

Top choices from this are probably Vampiric Touch (Envy, Gluttony), Poison (various), Bestow Curse (Hatred, Suffering), Feeblemind (Suffering), Arc of Lightning (Windstorm), Charm Monster (Elysium), Baleful Polymorph (Gluttony, Limbo).

Coidzor
2010-11-03, 11:35 PM
Top choices from this are probably Vampiric Touch (Envy, Gluttony), Poison (various), Bestow Curse (Hatred, Suffering), Feeblemind (Suffering), Arc of Lightning (Windstorm), Charm Monster (Elysium), Baleful Polymorph (Gluttony, Limbo).

Duskblades already have Vampiric Touch as part of their class spell list.

Where's Windstorm from?

Gnome Alone
2010-11-03, 11:39 PM
Hey all, domain spell questions aside, I've decided to go with this:

Power Attack (1st), Obtain Familiar (Bonus Feat: Human), Knowledge Devotion (3rd), Improved Familiar (6th). And to keep everything the same equipment-wise except I figure it's not too crazy to retcon in a keen masterwork +1 Falchion in place of two similar scimitars. Will probably go Arcane Strike for 9th level feat, but I gots to wonder: Anybody have a good idea for an improved familiar? Bearing in mind that I'm a pretty solidly frontline combatant almost all of the time?

Thurbane
2010-11-03, 11:45 PM
Duskblade with Improved Familiar can get a Winter Wolf, that makes a decent mount...or even Hippogriff, a flying mount, since Duskblades don't get Fly on their spell list.

Coidzor
2010-11-04, 12:29 AM
CN duskblade, ok... so, your options.. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870010/The_Familiars_Handbook_--_2007).

Planar Familiar: mephit, anarchic/celestial/fiendish animal(anarchic is superior iirc), quasit, and small elementals of the 4 main elements.

Mephits are small sized and humanoid in shape, so they can be armed and armored in addition to their spelllike abilities. A few have power attack as well, which can be useful, esp. with them flanking with you.

Improved Familiar: krenshar, worg, hippogrif, howler, winterwolf, pseudodragon, Jaculi from serpent kingdoms, quasit

I'd say winterwolf or hippogriff are the superior options here for more basic magical beasts. Quasit can be good with UMD/skill use or its alternate forming into a wolf with DR 5, but neither of those is really a duskblade strong suit.

Celestial Familiar; coure eladrin, musteval guardinal

Not really sure. I believe there are some SLAs at play here which might be useful. Apparently these two are also on the improved familiars list? familiar handbook rates 'em highly and they have alternate forms...

Dragon familiar: black/white dragons at 7th level, then green/brass dragons at 9, then blue/copper at 10.

Gold/silver are the best due to alternate form and good stats/size but take 14 CL for gold and 12 CL for silver. So not on the table just yet, really. If you want a dragon familiar wait until 9th or 12th level for the feat.

Amiel
2010-11-04, 12:39 AM
There's also Arcane Strike, it's a little ripper of a feat that allows you to channel arcane energy into a melee attack; IIRC, the WotC version allowed you to expend the spell in question and thereby gain a +sacrificed-spell-level bonus to your attack.

Coidzor
2010-11-04, 12:41 AM
That reminds me. The wording on the feat does seem to allow multiple spells to be sacrificed for the +Xd4 damage component (but not the +X to attack rolls part), allowing a form of nova.

Thurbane
2010-11-04, 12:59 AM
There's also Arcane Strike, it's a little ripper of a feat that allows you to channel arcane energy into a melee attack; IIRC, the WotC version allowed you to expend the spell in question and thereby gain a +sacrificed-spell-level bonus to your attack.
You know, as soon as I read "little ripper" I just knew you were from Australia, before I looked at your location! :smallbiggrin:

faceroll
2010-11-04, 01:59 AM
Power Critical needs to go. May I suggest Improved Critical instead? Takes the threat range of those scimitars from 18-20 to 15-20.

Has to take it on level 9, since she went 4 levels fighter, followed by 4 levels of duskblade, so there is no feat to retrain when she has +8 BAB, the amount required for imp. critical.

Coidzor
2010-11-04, 03:21 AM
Has to take it on level 9, since she went 4 levels fighter, followed by 4 levels of duskblade, so there is no feat to retrain when she has +8 BAB, the amount required for imp. critical.

Also, improved critical is redundant with keen weaponry.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-04, 03:47 AM
Also, improved critical is redundant with keen weaponry.

Not to mention, I got to retrain the whole character basically, so I ditched every feat I had before in exchange for: Power Attack (with retconned Falchion), Knowledge Devotion, Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar. Think I'll go with a Salt Mephit, btw - they can make the enemy lose 4 AC and they're SARCASTIC. I'm genetically incapable of not loving that.

Blackfang108
2010-11-04, 10:27 AM
Hey all, domain spell questions aside, I've decided to go with this:

Power Attack (1st), Obtain Familiar (Bonus Feat: Human), Knowledge Devotion (3rd), Improved Familiar (6th). And to keep everything the same equipment-wise except I figure it's not too crazy to retcon in a keen masterwork +1 Falchion in place of two similar scimitars. Will probably go Arcane Strike for 9th level feat, but I gots to wonder: Anybody have a good idea for an improved familiar? Bearing in mind that I'm a pretty solidly frontline combatant almost all of the time?

Double-check your pre-reqs. you must be 3rd level for the bolded feat.

Otherwise, looks good.

Keld Denar
2010-11-04, 10:44 AM
Yea, unfortunately, and you need to be at least 2nd level to qualify for Knowledge Devotion due to the requirement of 5+ ranks in any one knowledge. That puts both feats in competition for your 3rd level feat slot. A difficult situation to be in, if I do say so myself...

Quietus
2010-11-04, 10:49 AM
Quietus, I'm probably more inclined towards PA/KD/AS anyway, given that my character is a brash young jerk (rather unlike me, I'm a reserved young jerk) but the familiar route sounds appealing nonetheless. However, does Companion Spellbond apply to familiars as well? I got the impression it was animal companions only.

BTW, really appreciate everyone's advice so far, it totally tells me I've come to the right place.

You're totally correct, sorry - I was sure it applied to familiars as well. Of course, if a player came to me as a DM and went "Hey, I wanna take this for my familiar", and they'd already invested two out of their seven/eight feats into getting a decent familiar, I'd be okay with that. But that's houserule territory.

As to which familiars are good, I'm not too familiar (no pun intended) with mephits off the top of my head, I'm not big on the outsiders. Winter Wolf was my goal when I was running a duskblade, was aiming to pick up Mounted Combat so I could ride it around, protect it, and share spells easily, but unfortunately that game petered out early. But from the sounds of it, a small sized, probably flying, sarcastic little bugger that lowers opponent's AC would be a great help.

Gnome Alone
2010-11-04, 11:31 AM
Double-check your pre-reqs. you must be 3rd level for the bolded feat.

Otherwise, looks good.

NOOOOOoooOO! Well, okay. Thanks. Guess I'll pick up something different for that bonus feat, and just get Improved Familiar later. Actually, that might work better, story-wise, the DM can make me work for the salty bugger.

Blackfang108
2010-11-04, 11:31 AM
NOOOOOoooOO! Well, okay. Thanks. Guess I'll pick up something different for that bonus feat, and just get Improved Familiar later. Actually, that might work better, story-wise, the DM can make me work for the salty bugger.

To be fair: your familiars are summoned by a ritual.

Keld Denar
2010-11-04, 12:56 PM
You could always ask your DM if you could take the feat at 1, and then just hold off on doing the ritual to summon it (costs 100g) until 3rd level or so, or heck, even wait until 6th level when you summon your Improved Familiar, since you'd have to dismiss the other one anyway.

Blackfang108
2010-11-04, 12:58 PM
You could always ask your DM if you could take the feat at 1, and then just hold off on doing the ritual to summon it (costs 100g) until 3rd level or so, or heck, even wait until 6th level when you summon your Improved Familiar, since you'd have to dismiss the other one anyway.

This could work. After all, it's not like you're having your familiar any earlier, as you're level 8 right now.

Just run it by the DM.

Malbordeus
2010-11-04, 01:00 PM
hmm, the blade of force reserve is ok for a duskblade as extra damage and free ghosttouch, cant remember if they get any force based spells at third level though.

Thurbane
2010-11-04, 04:47 PM
The Bloodline feats from Dragon Magazine Compendium can be OK for a Duskblade...adding a spell known for spell levels 1 through 5. Earth Bloodline has Enlarge Person (great spell for any melee gish) among others...

Coidzor
2010-11-04, 05:12 PM
Yea, unfortunately, and you need to be at least 2nd level to qualify for Knowledge Devotion due to the requirement of 5+ ranks in any one knowledge. That puts both feats in competition for your 3rd level feat slot. A difficult situation to be in, if I do say so myself...

On the other hand, dipping Cloistered Cleric can get you Knowledge Devotion whenever by trading in the Knowledge Domain. Add in magic domain and you can use all cleric and wizard/sorc consumables (though wandsscrolls would have to roll). 3rd domain/devotion to taste, I guess. Planning would give the extend spell metamagic, but I don't think there's many spells you'd have that you'd want extended. But it could be used as a pre-req for a metamagic feat that would be useful.

Not sure if I'd really recommend dipping Cloistered Cleric for a Duskblade though, come to think of it... And wouldn't be keeping with the theme for the rebuild of the pre-existing character. It could, however, be a consideration for your next level.

Thurbane
2010-11-04, 06:21 PM
Add in magic domain and you can use all cleric and wizard/sorc consumables (though wands would have to roll).
Actually, it's the other way around - you wouldn't need to roll for Wands, but you would need to roll for Scrolls of a level beyond what you can cast.

Coidzor
2010-11-04, 07:25 PM
Actually, it's the other way around - you wouldn't need to roll for Wands, but you would need to roll for Scrolls of a level beyond what you can cast.

Can't believe I flubbed that one. Whoops. x.x