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View Full Version : Need Help Crowd Controlling (3.5)



Cisturn
2010-11-05, 12:14 AM
Hey playgrounders I could really use your help. My ninth level party is going up against a Eye of Gruumsh/Frenzied Berserker/DEATH KNIGHT and a severely muted Atropol. I need to take the Berserker out of combat so we can focus on the Atropol.

Usually I'd burn through him with Light of Venya or Searing Light. The problem here is that when he's frenzied he can keep fighting after he goes under zero. Plus he's using a radiant weapon that goes straight through my armor, so I can't even buff myself and tank against him.

I'm hoping you guys can help me out with some good Cleric Ground Control spells I could use on the Berserker, hopefully taking advantage of his (relatively) low will save. I have access to all books, though nothing third party and can cast up to fifth level spells.

Thanks!

Rahas
2010-11-05, 12:21 AM
First thing that comes to mind is using hold/charm/dominate spells because those do target will.

Cisturn
2010-11-05, 12:26 AM
are those mind affecting? As a Death Knight he's immune to those.

LordBlades
2010-11-05, 12:56 AM
Solid fog and wall of force should keep a non-teleporting melee busy for quite a while. Add cloudkill for good measure too. (other walls might do the trick at well, but they allow saves and are pretty susceptible to damage)

Coidzor
2010-11-05, 01:26 AM
Solid fog and wall of force should keep a non-teleporting melee busy for quite a while. Add cloudkill for good measure too. (other walls might do the trick at well, but they allow saves and are pretty susceptible to damage)

Cleric. Against an undead Deathknight.



It's too bad you don't have an arcanist or even someone with UMD and a wand of grease. Frenzied berserkers are notoriously vulnerable to that spell.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-05, 01:30 AM
Death Knights are Undead, which means he has no Con score. Frenzy will only last 3 rounds, +5 for each time he's taken the feat Extend Rage, +3 if he has a Brash weapon, +1 if he has a Mask of Blood. Creatures with no Con score cannot tire so he won't be fatigued after it ends, but that doesn't mean it can last any longer than normal. His buddy is likely an Atropal Scion from Libris Mortis, not the epic monster. Even then, this is a CR 10+ (Frenzied Berserker 1 is minimum 7th level, +3 for DK) and probably a CR 11 versus a 9th level party, an extremely difficult boss-level fight.

Deathless Frenzy doesn't necessarily work for undead, from the Monster Manual creature type entry: "Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed." Deathless Frenzy specifies 'not disabled at 0' and 'not dying at -1 to -9' and finally, 'even if reduced to -10 hit points or less, she continues to fight normally until her frenzy ends.' If you reduce him anywhere from 0 to -9 hit points, he'll be destroyed regardless of Deathless Frenzy, only if reduced from 1 or higher to -10 or less will he be able to continue fighting. (Deathless Frenzy doesn't work for living creatures at all, you take nonlethal damage every round in a frenzy, and if you ever have more nonlethal damage than your current HP you fall unconscious.)

When in a Frenzy he's not allowed to use any Dexterity-based skills, such as Balance. He cannot even roll reactive checks, he automatically fails. If he can't fly, you can cast (UMD: Wand of) Grease under him and he cannot move out of that square. Get some marbles from the Arms and Equipment Guide and throw them into his square and he's in the same predicament. Just stay out of his reach and wait for the Frenzy to end. He gets no saving throw, no spell resistance, there's nothing he can do but end his frenzy, it's extremely unfair.

Cast (Greater) Luminous Armor (BoED) on everyone in the party. It's a force effect, so it should still work against a brilliant energy weapon, plus he'll take a -4 penalty to his attack rolls against everyone. You don't take the Str damage sacrifice until the spell ends, but you can have a few Lesser Restorations prepared for when that happens. You can also cast Magic Vestment on it, to provide an Enhancement bonus to its Armor bonus, which would still be part of that force effect. Brilliant Energy does say, "Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor," which as a blanket statement would suggest that it would also bypass Luminous Armor + Magic Vestment. However, it goes on to say, "Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply." It says the weapon ignores nonliving matter, but force effects are not made from matter, they are a magical energy effect very similar to a Deflection bonus. Therefore, force effects which grant an AC bonus would be categorized under 'other such bonuses' and would apply versus a Brilliant Energy weapon.

Wall of Good in the Spell Compendium may be a good choice, given his low Will save. Hide from Undead could work to get close and into position before attacking, so the first thing anyone does is you casting that wall to block him from even entering the fight. You can cast spells through the wall unhindered (but so can he), and casting the wall itself doesn't even end the Hide from Undead effect. He won't even know the wall is there until he runs against it once and wastes his entire round.

Cast Summon Undead IV for a Wyvern Zombie and order it to grapple and pin him. His AoO will fail due to the Brilliant Energy weapon, it gets a +11 vs his Touch AC, and a +16 Grapple bonus so it will probably win. You can cast this while Hide from Undead is still up, summon it to appear on the other side of the wall. They won't even be able to hear your verbal components for any of that, so they won't know what's going on until your summoned creature appears, but it won't hear your orders until the hide spell is gone so someone will need to attack something as soon as it pops up.