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View Full Version : Dealing with mind controll [3.5]



randomhero00
2010-11-05, 03:57 PM
I don't know if its homebrew or not but I decided to become a vampire from a very powerful vampire lord (like, king of all vampires.) This gave me immense power, I have almost no weaknesses BUT the damn vamp lord can force me to do his bidding somehow because he made me. Its not really a problem out of character as I really have free reign, its just in character roleplay wise, my character wants to be top dog really bad. So how can I resist his influence? Keep in mind this vamp lord has epic casting.

Basically ALL items are open to me. Epic included. Anything that will help?

How do upper undead even control their lower undead?

Toliudar
2010-11-05, 04:02 PM
Mind Blank or an item that grants continues "Protection from [alignment]" would be your best bets.

Mystic Muse
2010-11-05, 04:04 PM
If he has epic casting he can pretty much do whatever he wants. Kill him in his sleep or something maybe?

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 04:05 PM
Mind Blank or an item that grants continues "Protection from [alignment]" would be your best bets.

I'm already immune to mind affects being undead. So 98% sure that wouldn't matter. (plus I've already tried mind blank) Do the books say how control works? Is it on a soul level or something?

Also while I'm here, instead of opening a new thread. Now that my con is - and my fort is low what's the best way to deal with it? Is there a feat that will allow me to substitute my charisma for my fort score or something?

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 04:08 PM
If he has epic casting he can pretty much do whatever he wants. Kill him in his sleep or something maybe?

He's epic vampire lord of awesomeness. He doesn't sleep. He can't be turned. etc. Like I said, he has pretty much no weaknesses. I'll have to fight him straight up, face to face. He's also guarded by extremely powerful lieutenants.

Terumitsu
2010-11-05, 04:08 PM
I might be wrong but if you have no Con score then you pretty much auto-pass all fortitude saves. Again, I might be off on that but as most fort saves are poison and the like that affect living things because they are alive, then you should be able to say it's not necessary.

Might be a few exceptions though.

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 04:10 PM
I might be wrong but if you have no Con score then you pretty much auto-pass all fortitude saves. Again, I might be off on that but as most fort saves are poison and the like that affect living things because they are alive, then you should be able to say it's not necessary.

Might be a few exceptions though.

A few very important exceptions. Like disintegrate.

jiriku
2010-11-05, 04:11 PM
You are on the hook, and there's nothing that you personally can do. The usual method is to manipulate him via social skills to convince him to tell you to do things you wanted to do anything, or to send you far away on long-term tasks so that you've at least got a long leash.

If you want to off him, you can't do it alone. The usual tactic would be to find a group of low-level adventurers and subtly, indirectly guide them to oppose his plans, ensuring that they learn progressively more as they advance in level, until finally they confront him in an epic battle in which you discreetly arrange for them to bypass his various defenses.

Really, the traitorous lieutenant who wants to usurp his boss's role and powers is a classic trope. Go with it.

tyckspoon
2010-11-05, 04:12 PM
Being undead makes you immune to the vast majority of Fort effects you would really need to worry about. The remainder tend to be object-destruction spells that can incidentally also affect you. Acquire an item to give you the Ray Deflection spell; it'll take care of Disintegrate and incidentally a lot of other obnoxious touch spells.

For the controlling thing.. the most appropriate thing I can think of is using something like the 'Repair Psychic Damage' option of the Psychic Chirurgery power to remove your progenitor's influence from your soul/aura. There's no in-game effect that will protect you from it otherwise, it seems, since it's fiat-capable of bypassing Mind Blank.

Emmerask
2010-11-05, 04:15 PM
Hm I don´t think that there is any exact stuff in the books for it.
But I could be wrong and in some of the more obscure ones there actually is something^^
maybe the slayers guide book to undead has something in it (though its 3rd party)


I gather that he can control you but not actually sense what you are doing if you are outside his presence?
So I would suggest being a smart evil guy and feed information about his whereabouts, defenses etc to a powerful church (preferably with their own epic level clerics), let them deal with the problem but make sure not to be there during the fight ^^
After that your job is to consolidate the ruins of his "empire".
Well its ruins but its better then being controlled :smallwink:

/edit ninjad



Really, the traitorous lieutenant who wants to usurp his boss's role and powers is a classic trope. Go with it.

Yes this is the smart thing to do :smallsmile:

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 04:26 PM
To the other saying get some adventurers to do my dirty work. Well first off, there really isn't anyone around powerful enough. Second, that'd take awhile. Third, what's to stop them from killing me too?


Being undead makes you immune to the vast majority of Fort effects you would really need to worry about. The remainder tend to be object-destruction spells that can incidentally also affect you. Acquire an item to give you the Ray Deflection spell; it'll take care of Disintegrate and incidentally a lot of other obnoxious touch spells.


Do you know what its called or what book it may be from? So far I've only found an epic affect but it goes on shields only :( but its full spell turning. Too bad my character can't use shields (its like a vow, don't ask.)

tyckspoon
2010-11-05, 04:39 PM
Do you know what its called or what book it may be from? So far I've only found an epic affect but it goes on shields only :( but its full spell turning. Too bad my character can't use shields (its like a vow, don't ask.)

The spell itself is Spell Compendium. As far as I know there isn't a pre-printed item that has the effect; you'd have to get DM permission for a custom Ring or similar, or just carry around a staff with the spell and use it/UMD it.

Lysander
2010-11-05, 04:41 PM
To answer your question, the SRD says vampires automatically control the spawn they create. It also explains how to become free of that control.


Create Spawn (Su)

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

So just convince it to make more vampires and free you in order to control them. Maybe you can fool it into thinking you're so loyal it doesn't need to have you enslaved?

Alternatively, die, get resurrected as a living person, and have another vampire willing not to enslave you turn you into a vampire again. Of course it's safe to assume the vampire lord would sense you leaving his control as you die, but maybe not your resurrection and re-vampification. If you're willing to assume a false identity (perhaps by coming back with reincarnate) this might make him think you're still dead.

Malbordeus
2010-11-05, 04:58 PM
this is the problem with becoming a vampire, sensible people normally go lich or Death Knight. being controlled, unless somone more powerful takes control of you, your stuck with him untill he dies. ofc, he has to sleep sometime, and you can always try and subvert his orders - like giving the route to your lords coffin to an enterprising band of adventurers

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 05:18 PM
Do you think its within the purview of wish? Like "I wish to become my own master"

Emmerask
2010-11-05, 05:35 PM
I would say no, or at least no if you don´t want to feel what its like to be imprecise when wishing or have your words twisted around by a dm :smallsmile:

For example your current wish:

yes you become your own master again, but you lose the vampire template^^

Coidzor
2010-11-05, 05:45 PM
How do upper undead even control their lower undead?

vampires auto-control their spawn. Unless they hit their HD cap of spawn, in which case they have to decide who to release.


Third, what's to stop them from killing me too?

Getting a long enough leash to not be in Dodge when the **** hits the fan. Bargaining with/hiring them through proxies, so that your reward they can't get if they off you is enough to offset the difficulty in offing you too and just taking the swag from offing your boss in payment.

Or a having them be just strong enough to weaken him enough for a surprise attack from another angle before he can recover but not strong enough to survive.

Toliudar
2010-11-05, 05:49 PM
If epic-spellcasting levels of control are the problem, and you don't have useful proxies, then use epic-spellcasting back at him to break the link. Are you a caster?

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 06:01 PM
If epic-spellcasting levels of control are the problem, and you don't have useful proxies, then use epic-spellcasting back at him to break the link. Are you a caster?

Nope :( I have some SLAs but that's it. That's why I'm really looking hard into items.

randomhero00
2010-11-05, 06:10 PM
this is the problem with becoming a vampire, sensible people normally go lich or Death Knight.

What's death knight from? I figured libris mortis but couldn't find it. Can I still become one?

Coidzor
2010-11-05, 07:05 PM
What's death knight from? I figured libris mortis but couldn't find it. Can I still become one?

I think the source is fiend folio. Nope, it's MM2 and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting.

Flickerdart
2010-11-05, 07:29 PM
What's death knight from? I figured libris mortis but couldn't find it. Can I still become one?
Vampire is pretty much a dead end - Undead don't qualify for any other Undead templates.

Your master is probably this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a). He has already survived an assassination attempt by a spawn to have gotten the template, so try to be creative when offing him. If he got the template after he made you, then tough - "The new vampire is enslaved to the vampire lord until its master's death, and the willpower of the vampire lord is too strong to allow it to break free of its enslavement." You have to kill him in natural light, then decapitate him, burn the pieces separately, scatter the ashes from the body into a river and soak the head ashes in holy water, then bury them.

Coidzor
2010-11-05, 09:33 PM
There are, on the other hand, one or two interesting templates a vampire can have,but I think they depend on your creator having the template himself for the most part.