Druid vs Goblin Army

[Rasman]

I'm the type of person that prefers to be...prepared...but fighting an entire army is...not typical...

Granted, I'm not by myself, but stuff happens and getting separated on a battlefield isn't hard to do, so potentially we'll end up having to fight off parts of this army on our own.

As a 7th level PATHFINDER Druid, with a Large Cat Animal Companion, a Commanded Tiger and Eagle via Initiate of Nature, what are my best options?

Obviously I have spells like Entangle and Flame Strike and I could leave my pets in the castle keep until it's time to defend it and just burn a lot of spells on nuking parts of this army in a flight form, but that's too perfect for my DM to not try and do a focused Volley on me by the entire army. (Flame Strike isn't large enough of an area to satisfy me anyway.)

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to crush a large part of this army. The only other dedicated caster is Wizard and I know he knows what he's doing, but everyone else is either a melee fighter or focused on healing.

[Eloel]

Boreal Wind from Frostburn. 4th level spell, can carve a 20ft-wide path through any army of mooks.

[Coidzor]

Druids take, what, a day to get a new animal companion? So even if your animal companion doesn't make it out, using hit and run tactics, they can't get rid of you.

How much time until the army reaches the hard point you're stuck defending? Cutting their supply lines is easy and if they're stretched out far enough will either cause starvation issues or force them to forage unless they're going so slow they're with the supply wagons or they're able to take care of food through other means. Also, would require them to expend resources to defend their rear which weakens their main force's ability to deal with ambushes, people setting fire to their camp at night, and otherwise messing them up.

Heck, flamestrike is a great way to start a nice fire to burn up their equipment/tents and I believe you can still get a form that looks like a flying animal as a Pathfinder druid. Combine that as a signal to let your animal companion to start attacking from the opposite direction while they're distracted by putting out the fires... Plus your party can contribute to such a scenario as well.

If there are any places like fords or bridges over rivers you can prevent them from bringing their main force to bear and have to rely on their champions to accept your melee types' challenge to gain ground across the bridge. Also, if their casters reveal themselves against your bait, you and Mr. Wizard are available to cut down on the magical resources of this army.

[Gavinfoxx]

Your best bets are to fly above things, and do the huuuuuge area of effect spells that actually cause damage, and to summon things for the spell levels where you don't have things that cause damage. Make an effort to disrupt their command and control, attack their flanks and rear.

Some good spells to realllyy make an army's day sucky are:

1. Entangle
1. Spore Field
1. Cloudburst
2. Briar Web
3. ARCTIC HAZE
3. Haboob
3. Menacing Tentacles
3. Tremor
3. Plant Growth
3. Sleet Storm
3. Wind Wall
3. Call Lightning
4. Boreal Wind
4. Flame Strike
4. VORTEX OF TEETH
4. Wall of Salt
4. Blast of Sand
4. Briartangle

Consider the 'being a small bird hidden in a tree casting extremely long range spells to totally whoop an army in the army's camp' tactic. It's a favorite! Just unload your whole spell list on their camp every day for a few days..

[Rasman]

As a thought, any opinions on sneaking into the camp and using Contagion with Slimy Doom - DC 14 Fort Once a Day, 1d4 Con damage, target must make a second Fort save or 1 point of the damage is drain instead; Cure 2 consecutive saves?

If it works the way I think it does and spreads though the goblin army, that would handle a LOT of them in a couple of days, but if doesn't spread when they come into contact with one another, it's a bust.

Spike Growth and Soften Earth and Stone seemed like Viable options for Prebattle preparation, but other than that, I'm totally open to opinions.


Your best bets are to fly above things, and do the huuuuuge area of effect spells that actually cause damage, and to summon things for the spell levels where you don't have things that cause damage. Make an effort to disrupt their command and control, attack their flanks and rear.

Some good spells to realllyy make an army's day sucky are:

1. Entangle
1. Spore Field
1. Cloudburst
2. Briar Web
3. ARCTIC HAZE
3. Haboob
3. Menacing Tentacles
3. Tremor
3. Plant Growth
3. Sleet Storm
3. Wind Wall
3. Call Lightning
4. Boreal Wind
4. Flame Strike
4. VORTEX OF TEETH
4. Wall of Salt
4. Blast of Sand
4. Briartangle

Consider the 'being a small bird hidden in a tree casting extremely long range spells to totally whoop an army in the army's camp' tactic. It's a favorite! Just unload your whole spell list on their camp every day for a few days..

ah...Vortex of Teeth, how I loathed and now love you. TOTALLY forgot it was a 4th and not 5th level spell. Where are Spore Field and Tremor from?


Druids take, what, a day to get a new animal companion? So even if your animal companion doesn't make it out, using hit and run tactics, they can't get rid of you.

How much time until the army reaches the hard point you're stuck defending? Cutting their supply lines is easy and if they're stretched out far enough will either cause starvation issues or force them to forage unless they're going so slow they're with the supply wagons or they're able to take care of food through other means. Also, would require them to expend resources to defend their rear which weakens their main force's ability to deal with ambushes, people setting fire to their camp at night, and otherwise messing them up.

Heck, flamestrike is a great way to start a nice fire to burn up their equipment/tents and I believe you can still get a form that looks like a flying animal as a Pathfinder druid. Combine that as a signal to let your animal companion to start attacking from the opposite direction while they're distracted by putting out the fires... Plus your party can contribute to such a scenario as well.

If there are any places like fords or bridges over rivers you can prevent them from bringing their main force to bear and have to rely on their champions to accept your melee types' challenge to gain ground across the bridge. Also, if their casters reveal themselves against your bait, you and Mr. Wizard are available to cut down on the magical resources of this army.

we probably have around a day and a half before it gets to the "stuck" point, then again...I'm NEVER actually stuck..."I'm a bird" does wonders for getting unstuck...

Rather than use Flamestrike for that, there are Orisons to handle that. One Spark is all it takes to burn down something. Flamestrike is faster, but has better uses, like killing anyone trying to put the fire out.

We sadly don't really have any choke points other than the two Portcullis on the outer walls and that's where a majority of the fighting will take place. We're in luck to have a half-dragon minotaur as a PC, he can pretty much hold those on his own. Our only concerns are what happens when they knockdown the walls.

[The Glyphstone]

How much non-Pathfinder material are you allowed to draw from? This is a massive deciding factor for things like spells.

[Quellian-dyrae]

I'd say stock up on Freedom of Movements and Plant Growths, and maybe go Fog Cloud with your level 2 slots. Plant Growth is...at least the single biggest battlefield control spell that I can think of at a 100' radius circle of 5' movement. Just drop it right on their heads, Free Move your melee guys, and let them wreak havoc while their foes try to get to them, and drop Fog Clouds on casters and archers so they can't get a visual. Plant Growth is instantaneous (can't be dispelled!) and the free moves will last you over an hour. I assume that as long as you don't get swarmed, your guys can easily wipe out as many goblins as necessary.

If the enemy has a large number of ranged attackers, you'll need to adjust the tactics, and I'm not 100% sure of all the spells available to PF characters and what the terrain and tactical situation is like, but if you're outside fighting armies, Plant Growth can have a massive impact.

[Rasman]

How much non-Pathfinder material are you allowed to draw from? This is a massive deciding factor for things like spells.

I have access to ANY book I want except for things from Dragon Mags.


I'd say stock up on Freedom of Movements and Plant Growths, and maybe go Fog Cloud with your level 2 slots. Plant Growth is...at least the single biggest battlefield control spell that I can think of at a 100' radius circle of 5' movement. Just drop it right on their heads, Free Move your melee guys, and let them wreak havoc while their foes try to get to them, and drop Fog Clouds on casters and archers so they can't get a visual. Plant Growth is instantaneous (can't be dispelled!) and the free moves will last you over an hour. I assume that as long as you don't get swarmed, your guys can easily wipe out as many goblins as necessary.

If the enemy has a large number of ranged attackers, you'll need to adjust the tactics, and I'm not 100% sure of all the spells available to PF characters and what the terrain and tactical situation is like, but if you're outside fighting armies, Plant Growth can have a massive impact.

I like the idea with Plant Growth, but considering the terrain, I doubt that I'll be able to use it unfortunately. There just isn't a lot of brush or very many trees for it to work.

[Coidzor]

We sadly don't really have any choke points other than the two Portcullis on the outer walls and that's where a majority of the fighting will take place. We're in luck to have a half-dragon minotaur as a PC, he can pretty much hold those on his own. Our only concerns are what happens when they knockdown the walls.

Leave the portcullis partially open so they really, really want to take down your buffed up half-dragon minotaur. This will likely make them abandon efforts to take down your walls... and allow you to have a fairly focal point of defense from your wall based support. If at all possible at least identify before hand who their champions and main spellcasters will be.

What's their capability to knock down the walls beyond spellcasters? And what kind of spellcaster support do you know they have?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Greenbound Summoning from Lost Empires of Faerun. Every animal you summon becomes a Greenbound version, a template from that same book. Every creature you summon will be able to use Entangle at will and Wall of Thorns 1/day as spell-like abilities, plus they'll get +6 natural armor, DR 10/Magic and Slashing, and Fast Healing 3 among other benefits, so goblins won't even be able to kill them. Summon Nature's Ally III will get you 1d4+1 Greenbound Dire Rats, each of which can immediately use Wall of Thorns and then spam Entangle each round for the duration of the summon. Summon Nature's Ally IV will get 1d4+1 Dire Bats, which at 4 HD will cover four times as much area with their Wall of Thorns spells than the Dire Rats would, and they can fly around Entangling every goblin they see. Retrain into Greenbound Summoning as per PH2 rules if you have enough time, or hire an NPC Psion to use a Psychic Reformation power on you.

[Rasman]

Leave the portcullis partially open so they really, really want to take down your buffed up half-dragon minotaur. This will likely make them abandon efforts to take down your walls... and allow you to have a fairly focal point of defense from your wall based support. If at all possible at least identify before hand who their champions and main spellcasters will be.

What's their capability to knock down the walls beyond spellcasters? And what kind of spellcaster support do you know they have?

our knowledge is pretty limited, unfortunately...we do know they have relatively powerful casters, but no REAL specifics...Blighters are a strong possibility since we've already encountered and killed one and we're fairly certain that they have Wizards, but their strength is unknown. We hope we've dealt with their Shadow Dragon allies, but while I was away, the party cleric stupidly destroyed all but 3 of it's 25 eggs. Needless to say, my Druid was furious and almost left them all in its underground lair. So much for bargaining chips and/or Powerful allies.

Catapults are most likely their main form of non-spellcaster wall destruction.


Greenbound Summoning from Lost Empires of Faerun. Every animal you summon becomes a Greenbound version, a template from that same book. Every creature you summon will be able to use Entangle at will and Wall of Thorns 1/day as spell-like abilities, plus they'll get +6 natural armor, DR 10/Magic and Slashing, and Fast Healing 3 among other benefits, so goblins won't even be able to kill them. Summon Nature's Ally III will get you 1d4+1 Greenbound Dire Rats, each of which can immediately use Wall of Thorns and then spam Entangle each round for the duration of the summon. Summon Nature's Ally IV will get 1d4+1 Dire Bats, which at 4 HD will cover four times as much area with their Wall of Thorns spells than the Dire Rats would, and they can fly around Entangling every goblin they see. Retrain into Greenbound Summoning as per PH2 rules if you have enough time, or hire an NPC Psion to use a Psychic Reformation power on you.

beautiful idea, but sadly not an option

[Coidzor]

We hope we've dealt with their Shadow Dragon allies, but while I was away, the party cleric stupidly destroyed all but 3 of it's 25 eggs. Needless to say, my Druid was furious and almost left them all in its underground lair. So much for bargaining chips and/or Powerful allies.

Yeah... if they cared enough to have 25 eggs... would've made a good bargaining chip.

Not sure how I'd recommend going about getting more info though. Since at night during such an ambush, ideally you wouldn't be visible enough for their spellcasters to be able to make themselves known to you...

[Admiral Squish]

One fun solution: put up some kind of barrier behind the half-dragon with holes just big enough for the cleric's hand to fit through. The half-dragon goes a-murdering, and just backs up against the barrier whenever he needs a heal.

[Rasman]

Yeah... if they cared enough to have 25 eggs... would've made a good bargaining chip.

Not sure how I'd recommend going about getting more info though. Since at night during such an ambush, ideally you wouldn't be visible enough for their spellcasters to be able to make themselves known to you...

I was considering slithering in as a snake or something and riffling though the larger tents to see if I could find any telltale signs, but Goblins will eat anything and I'd prefer to not be lunch and a bird might stand out too much.

...in and out of game I'm still angry about those eggs...it's why I CAN'T play good characters...hell, we captured a live one and my druid refuses to let any of the others near it since it's a form of payment for an "allied" wizard, he's really more of a neutral 3rd party, but he's crazy as hell, so we're not sure what he's up to.

[Coidzor]

what, is the rest of the party CE murder machines?

[Rasman]

what, is the rest of the party CE murder machines?

LG Dwarf Fighter, CG Human Ranger, N Whisper Gnome Rogue, NG Cleric of Pelor, CG Half-Dragon Minotaur Fighter and I think a LN Human Wizard along with me as a True Neutral Human Druid

Shadow Dragons might be CE in alignment, but that doesn't mean you go around smashing their eggs when one did a fly by on our way in and ALMOST KILLED half of us...worst of it is that the Cleric is the one that started this egg scrambling. I get that he's good and all, but that doesn't mean you have to make bad decisions.

[jguy]

Well if you want some really cheesy stuff...

Okay, you will need a Rod of Extend and Rod of Widen and several casting of endure elements and some thick clothing because this will hurt everyone not prepared.

In early morning have all your slots be Control Temperature for 3rd level spells. Its a spell in Frostburn. Since you are level 7, each casting will drop it one temperature band. If its warm, it'll take 5 castings to get it to Unearthly Cold. Unearthly Cold does 1d6 cold damage and 1d4 nonlethal damage a minute for those unprotected. You must have at least 2 levels of protection to partially negate this and 4 levels to negate it completely. On your last casting use the Rod of Extend and Rod of Widen. The area of the spell will be:

280 cubic feet emanation from you of cold that lasts 14 hours.

Edit: This also works the other way around. You can raise the temperature to 140+ with all those casting, making them take 1d6 points of lethal damage a minute, no save, and have to make an increasingly higher fort save for 1d4 points of non-lethal. Wearing leather or heavy metal gives you a -4 to your saves. Water will start to boil and scald so there goes the food and water of the army.

If you have any items or abilities to boost your CL, you should do it. After this, Wild shape yourself into a badger and burrow under the army. In a few minutes, they will all be frostbitten and helpless to you

[Rasman]

Well if you want some really cheesy stuff...

Okay, you will need a Rod of Extend and Rod of Widen and several casting of endure elements and some thick clothing because this will hurt everyone not prepared.

In early morning have all your slots be Control Temperature for 3rd level spells. Its a spell in Frostburn. Since you are level 7, each casting will drop it one temperature band. If its warm, it'll take 5 castings to get it to Unearthly Cold. Unearthly Cold does 1d6 cold damage and 1d4 nonlethal damage a minute for those unprotected. You must have at least 2 levels of protection to partially negate this and 4 levels to negate it completely. On your last casting use the Rod of Extend and Rod of Widen. The area of the spell will be:

280 cubic feet emanation from you of cold that lasts 14 hours.

Edit: This also works the other way around. You can raise the temperature to 140+ with all those casting, making them take 1d6 points of lethal damage a minute, no save, and have to make an increasingly higher fort save for 1d4 points of non-lethal. Wearing leather or heavy metal gives you a -4 to your saves. Water will start to boil and scald so there goes the food and water of the army.

If you have any items or abilities to boost your CL, you should do it. After this, Wild shape yourself into a badger and burrow under the army. In a few minutes, they will all be frostbitten and helpless to you

you are a sick and twisted man...my favorite kind for this kind of thing...I sadly don't think I can get a hold of the rods, but 7 hours will SURELY slow them down quite a bit, might have a shot at hitting 8th level before the get there, so 8 hours is even better.

[Zeofar]

Watch out for paratroopers... Am I kidding? Think about it.

[Coidzor]

Shadow Dragons might be CE in alignment, but that doesn't mean you go around smashing their eggs when one did a fly by on our way in and ALMOST KILLED half of us...worst of it is that the Cleric is the one that started this egg scrambling. I get that he's good and all, but that doesn't mean you have to make bad decisions.

Weird, seems more like a Pholtean rather than Pelorian tact to take, even if he was playing with the Burning Hate mod in place....

Dragon eggs are... valuable both monetarily and... strategically.

[Rasman]

Watch out for paratroopers... Am I kidding? Think about it.

oh god...don't say that...I literally saw an animated ship flying though the sky above the castle the day we went to capture this baby shadow dragon...

...although I know who it belongs to...



Weird, seems more like a Pholtean rather than Pelorian tact to take, even if he was playing with the Burning Hate mod in place....

Dragon eggs are... valuable both monetarily and... strategically.

yeah...he was thinking with his "it's evil, I must kill it" alignment rather than, "I want to survive this war" part of his brain

N Clerics of Atheism are far less troublesome since they just don't care

it's sad that this is the first thing this Cleric has done to really piss my Druid off, he might be more miffed at him than the bumbling Ranger who I was basically designed to not like

[jguy]

Well Rods of Extend and Widen are the cheapest rods you can get and since this would be the Least version they should only cost 3000 each. Oh, and correction, its Enlarge, not Widen. My bad.

[Rasman]

Well Rods of Extend and Widen are the cheapest rods you can get and since this would be the Least version they should only cost 3000 each. Oh, and correction, its Enlarge, not Widen. My bad.

Ironically that's actually the connection I made anyway XD

[jguy]

Nice.

Yeah, I made a build awhile ago that abused Control Temperature and some feats from Frostburn to basically make myself a permanent Ice Age for dang near a mile around me. Even in the middle of summer. The only problem is it's a campaign ender because a lot of people in the summer are not prepared for -50 or lower weather out of nowhere and I would wipe out encounters before they started. And farmland. And Villages. Cities, cave systems, dungeons....

[Rising Phoenix]

Create an army of animals?

[Rasman]

Create an army of animals?

I tried, but...it didn't go well, our local has been rather...ravaged by this goblin horde and the forces of darkness behind it, so there isn't a lot to be found. I was lucky to get the tiger and eagle that I did, to be honest.


Nice.

Yeah, I made a build awhile ago that abused Control Temperature and some feats from Frostburn to basically make myself a permanent Ice Age for dang near a mile around me. Even in the middle of summer. The only problem is it's a campaign ender because a lot of people in the summer are not prepared for -50 or lower weather out of nowhere and I would wipe out encounters before they started. And farmland. And Villages. Cities, cave systems, dungeons....

lol...that's kinda awesome...if I can find a way to make it work, I might just meet the army out in the battlefield on my own first, crush their goons and then let their champions come, at which point...I hope they can fly...

in terms of "protection" for this, does multiple castings of Endure Elements cover that for every casting of the spell?

[Fcannon]

What's the terrain like? If there's a significant amount of stone available, you and possibly the wizard can potentially set up some serious defenses with Stone Shape.

If the battle isn't starting for a day and a half, consider doing some preliminary hit-and-runs. Fly out to meet them, burn down their forward-most siege weapons, and retreat. Repeat the next day. Ideally, your defenses are good enough that without their catapults there isn't much they can do but try to wait you out (that is the original idea behind castles, after all). At that point, make some discreet raids on their food supplies and leadership elements.

You don't need to rout their army, just make it so difficult for the enemy to wage war that they decide it's not worth the effort and leave you alone.

[jguy]

in terms of "protection" for this, does multiple castings of Endure Elements cover that for every casting of the spell?

Protection from Elements cast once on each PC and yourself is all you really need. If you are going cold weather, perhaps some winter clothes in addition but that is all you really need. The thing with an army is even if every adept/cleric in the army can cast it, there is nowhere near enough of them to cover all of the army.

Problem is after your do this the first time, any cleric/adepts left -will- be memorizing as many Endure Elements as they can. Try to take them out first.

[Thrawn183]

Yeah, assuming you survived this, you might have been able to raise some of the dragons to be good. I'm a fan of providing these sorts of opportunities to my PC's, so seeing it go to waste like this is....:smallannoyed:

[Kaww]

What's the environment like? Which season is it? Are the goblins advanced or just MM ones? How many are coming?
I'd suggest Blood snow lvl2, Vortex of teeth lvl4, Arctic haze lvl3.
If applicable I suggest you hit them before they get to you, while they are setting up camp. Start with arctic haze or two, followed by VoT at captains (people that start shouting: 'What are you doing? Back to work! etc')...

[Rasman]

What's the terrain like? If there's a significant amount of stone available, you and possibly the wizard can potentially set up some serious defenses with Stone Shape.

If the battle isn't starting for a day and a half, consider doing some preliminary hit-and-runs. Fly out to meet them, burn down their forward-most siege weapons, and retreat. Repeat the next day. Ideally, your defenses are good enough that without their catapults there isn't much they can do but try to wait you out (that is the original idea behind castles, after all). At that point, make some discreet raids on their food supplies and leadership elements.

You don't need to rout their army, just make it so difficult for the enemy to wage war that they decide it's not worth the effort and leave you alone.


Protection from Elements cast once on each PC and yourself is all you really need. If you are going cold weather, perhaps some winter clothes in addition but that is all you really need. The thing with an army is even if every adept/cleric in the army can cast it, there is nowhere near enough of them to cover all of the army.

Problem is after your do this the first time, any cleric/adepts left -will- be memorizing as many Endure Elements as they can. Try to take them out first.

I doubt they'll have that many to begin with since they're just goblins. I'm not TOTALLY concerned, but making it like Russia will teach them how to not be like Hitler.


Yeah, assuming you survived this, you might have been able to raise some of the dragons to be good. I'm a fan of providing these sorts of opportunities to my PC's, so seeing it go to waste like this is....:smallannoyed:

my first thought about it was something along the lines of "aoswiehf wpoieuhf woieuhf weiopuhf weoiuhf ddddddddddddddddddd"


What's the environment like? Which season is it? Are the goblins advanced or just MM ones? How many are coming?
I'd suggest Blood snow lvl2, Vortex of teeth lvl4, Arctic haze lvl3.
If applicable I suggest you hit them before they get to you, while they are setting up camp. Start with arctic haze or two, followed by VoT at captains (people that start shouting: 'What are you doing? Back to work! etc')...

Temperate, Late Fall right after harvest, a Mix...so lots of Choads but there are some big bads, more than there are of us...so in the 1000s I believe, not cold enough for Blood Snow, Vortex of Teeth is going to be my main 4th level spell and Arctic Haze will crush a lot of them as well, but they do have casters, so it's kind of counterable. I do speak goblin, so screaming at them to get in there and do something could actually work.

MY consideration for this is to pull a classic Russian defense and freeze them out now. One of my other plans as a "kill them all" strat is to sneak into a camp OR catch one running off by itself and casting Contagion for some Slimy Doom, then Charm Monster, since I'm a Greensinger, and telling him to go and hug as many of his friends and leaders as possible. At which point, a large portion of the goblin army will be diseased and either killed off by that OR by their leadership to prevent the spread.

...now if I could only find an army of gelatinous cubes...

[Kaww]

I'd suggest trying to talk your DM into allowing you to use Rogue wave DrMag lvl 3 spell. Acquire a scroll of call avalanche, it will do massive dmg to lots of goblins...
Also use AH as a screen for Vot. That way goblins will have no idea that a swarm of ghostly piranhas is there to kill them... Ask your DM to write down spells for the enemy casters, if you want to use AH as a surprise...

[DragonOfUndeath]

my first thought about it was something along the lines of "aoswiehf wpoieuhf woieuhf weiopuhf weoiuhf ddddddddddddddddddd"


Blue Screen Of Death in real life :smalltongue:

[Rasman]

I'd suggest trying to talk your DM into allowing you to use Rogue wave DrMag lvl 3 spell. Acquire a scroll of call avalanche, it will do massive dmg to lots of goblins...
Also use AH as a screen for Vot. That way goblins will have no idea that a swarm of ghostly piranhas is there to kill them... Ask your DM to write down spells for the enemy casters, if you want to use AH as a surprise...

yeah...Arctic Haze then Vortex of Teeth will be quite nice in combo...I can probably get the Wizard to give me a little help with that and maybe Solid Fog or something similar, not deadly, but hampering...not sure if he has Cloud Kill yet or not...prob not until next level...


Blue Screen Of Death in real life :smalltongue:

that is...actually a pretty good analogy for it

EDIT: And a minor correction, I can seem to use Spells from Dragon Mags, just not PrCs or anything of the like