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View Full Version : 3.5 All the wizards are taken. NEEDZ MOAR SKEELZ!



PrismaticPIA
2010-11-05, 11:16 PM
I need a build and equipment for a 12th level skill monkey that can shine in a party with two wizards and a druid (all semi-optimized).

Only things banned are BoED/BovD, flaws, and third party sources.

Toptomcat
2010-11-05, 11:21 PM
You cannot go wrong with any number of levels in factotum when a skill monkey is desired, unless that number is zero.

As for equipment and specific builds, some information about the builds and spellcasting habits of your other three party members would be nice so we know what role(s) remains to be filled in your party combatwise.

Keld Denar
2010-11-05, 11:23 PM
Arcane Rogue?

Spellthief1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5

Take Master Spellthief and steal spells from people you sneak attack with your attack spells. Persist Hunter's Eye (PHBII) and Cloud of Knives (PHBII) for a free attack every round with lots of bonus damage.

Its roguey, but still mostly wizard. Should be able to keep up jus fine.

Magnor Criol
2010-11-05, 11:24 PM
As Toptomcat said, a bit more info would be helpful, but firsthand guess - with two wizards and a druid, it sounds like the only mental stat not covered by the party is charisma. Maybe you could be the party face / con man type?

FMArthur
2010-11-05, 11:24 PM
Be a Beguiler so that you can skillmonkey and, simultaneously, show them how clever wizards solve problems. :smallcool:

RelentlessImp
2010-11-05, 11:32 PM
Be a Beguiler so that you can skillmonkey and, simultaneously, show them how clever wizards solve problems. :smallcool:

The really clever wizards have Wish Factories at this point through spells the beguiler doesn't get.

They're kind of like monkeys in that regard; while all the other animals are foraging for food, the monkey sticks a stick down an anthill to get its food.

The wizard just has a bigger stick.

PrismaticPIA
2010-11-06, 12:15 AM
You cannot go wrong with any number of levels in factotum when a skill monkey is desired, unless that number is zero.

As for equipment and specific builds, some information about the builds and spellcasting habits of your other three party members would be nice so we know what role(s) remains to be filled in your party combatwise.

I won't have any information about the other party members other then their class until i enter the game. I can tell you that the wizards aren't optimized to the point of having wish factories.

gorfnab
2010-11-06, 12:17 AM
Be a Beguiler so that you can skillmonkey and, simultaneously, show them how clever wizards solve problems. :smallcool:
Whisper Gnome Beguiler 6/ Shadow Adapt 1/ Beguiler 1/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 7 :smallbiggrin:


Arcane Rogue?

Spellthief1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer10/ArcaneTrickster5

Take Master Spellthief and steal spells from people you sneak attack with your attack spells. Persist Hunter's Eye (PHBII) and Cloud of Knives (PHBII) for a free attack every round with lots of bonus damage.

Its roguey, but still mostly wizard. Should be able to keep up jus fine.
Spellthief 1/ Wizard 5/ Unseen Seer 10/ Arcane Trickster 4 - Spontaneous Divination from Complete Champion is just too good to pass up especially with Hunter's Eye.

Eloel
2010-11-06, 12:48 AM
Archivists, being Int-based, naturally lend themselves to skill-monkeyness. A Human Factotum1/ArchivistX with Able Learner can spend his skill points as he wants on whatever skill he wishes.

And it's Archivist. If (ab)used correctly, it is the most powerful class if you play without obvious cheese.

Andion Isurand
2010-11-06, 01:50 AM
Try out the halfling wizard substitution levels in Dragon Magazine 337 to drop your 5th level bonus feat (and 2 automatic bonus spells at 5th level) for the Lore ability and go for the Loremaster's PrC...

...then use the Bardic Knack ACF from PH2 35 to emulate your role as a skill monkey.

Endarire
2010-11-06, 03:32 AM
Rogue1/Conjurer5/Unseen Seer8/Arcane TricksterX.

You're skillful, you're magical, and you can hopefully keep pace with the full casters. This build gets you contingency, wall of force, and lots of magic goodies, whereas a "skills" build would only get you this through items, if that.

mint
2010-11-06, 07:44 AM
I would like to repeat: Factotum.
You imply that wizard is not an option and you want to be a skillmonkey.
Factotum is the skillmonkey. It is.
What I am saying is, the Factotum, is a monkey of the skills, essentially. So you see, it is very good with skills.

Further, Druids are not great combat healers, you can supplement the healing as Factotum.
Also you have a melee presence to add to the Druids.
Your party, of course, will eventually have a impressive summoning potential for brining in a melee presence when it is needed so... so...
Still, skillmonkey.

FMArthur
2010-11-06, 11:00 AM
Two wizards and a druid are going to have every aspect of combat covered and make most of the physical skills redundant. Maybe all you need is a social skillmonkey. To that end, a Marshal with HUGE charisma can double his CHA bonus to his skill checks at first level, and at third provide a large increase to the whole party's initiative by boosting DEX rolls. At that point you should leave the class, but you'll be ECL 15 by then.

Why would you be ECL 15!! you ask. At exactly level 12 you can just play a Succubus. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#succubus) In addition to a host of fantastic SLAs and special abilities that suit your role beautifully, a Succubus's ability score adjustments are as follows: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int, +4 Wis, +16 Cha. +16 Charisma. Starting with an 18 in the stat, you'd have a +34 initial score, or a +12 Cha bonus. With your magic gear it'll be a +15 bonus. When you take your level in Marshal, you'll be able to get +30 to charisma-based skills (plus your ranks) and charisma checks. Diplomacy is easy for you. Intimidation is just flat out rigged. Hell, you would even be awesome at Iaijutsu Focus. Later, when you provide +15 bonus to Initiative for your whole party through boosting Dex checks, your party will love you even if you don't do anything the whole battle. You could even do this with your first Marshal level if you feel you're good enough at social stuff to pass.

Flickerdart
2010-11-06, 11:10 AM
Except as a Succubus, your skill caps are 6 points lower than everyone else's due to LA. If you want to do anything besides seducing people, you're screwed. Considering that social stuff can be bypassed with liberal applications of Enchantment magic, I'd stick with a Beguiler.

Ernir
2010-11-06, 12:08 PM
Idle observation: There is something so awesomely wrong about replacing social skills with enchantment spells.

FMArthur
2010-11-06, 02:14 PM
Except as a Succubus, your skill caps are 6 points lower than everyone else's due to LA. If you want to do anything besides seducing people, you're screwed. Considering that social stuff can be bypassed with liberal applications of Enchantment magic, I'd stick with a Beguiler.

6 less skill points is not a big issue if the things you are focusing on get +30 bonuses from the stat modifier you get out of the deal. I would be more concerned about spells that have increasingly more brutal effects depending on a hit dice gap, although the slew of defenses you get (DR 10/cold iron, immunities, energy resistances, and spell resistance) means you don't have to worry about your low hit point total too much. Succubi by default have some fairly powerful enchantment effects out of the box, anyway, like at-will Suggestion, Charm Monster, and 100ft telepathy; they will also have very difficult save DCs, much higher than the ones listed in the monster entry. Change Shape and Greater Teleport whenever you like is just gravy on top.

An Intimidate check modified by +yes is also likely to be quite useful, and with very little investment (Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered is 1 feat and 2 skill points) can have extremely effective results in combat in addition to its out-of-combat applications. Succubus Charisma on a player character is no joke, especially with a Marshal level. And she probably won't need to do anything other than manipulating NPCs because the party has two wizards and a druid. Everything but this particular schtick is well-covered as far as I can see.