View Full Version : metamagic reduction, probably still broken? [3.5 feat,PEACH]

2010-11-06, 10:10 AM
Metamagic Theory
Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks, Spellcraft 10 ranks, any three metamagic feats, ability to cast 3rd level spells.
Research has revealed to you the fundamental principles of magic.
Benefit: When you apply a metamagic effect to a spell, you may make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + 2 * spell level + normal spell level increase) to drop the spell level increase by 1, to a minimum of +0; for every additional ten points you succeed by, you may reduce the spell level increase by 1. Failure results in losing the ability to cast any form of the base spell until you regain spells.

This shares its feat prereqs with loremaster, yes.

The idea is that you take 10 for these. This taken into account, a table of metamagic level increases which can sanely be applied at each level:

Nicely enough, you're not likely to be able to metamagic your two highest levels of spells, which you usually don't want to risk losing either; the third-highest can be metamagicked only at even levels; and you can usually only metamagic stuff up to one lower than your highest level.

2010-11-06, 01:49 PM
The feat looks fine. a one level decrease in metamagic cost is not that big of a deal.

But I don't like the Lore part.

I don't like the idea of 'lore' or 'knowledge' giving you very helpful and very useful powers that can be used in combat or to enhance a character in general.

The idea that a bookish loremaster would have greater powers and abilities just as he has more knowledge is silly. Not so much the knowledge itself, but how they 'translate' it into a powerful ability. A loremaster would know more information about magic, but to say that he worked out a formula to get more power from it is just too far.

And something like metamagic reduction should be open to all classes, that is all 'smart' spellcasters. Not just the bookish loremasters.

2010-11-06, 03:32 PM
well, okay, dropped the lore part, though it seems to me that metamagic reduction is considered a pretty big deal.

2010-11-07, 01:47 AM
Assuming I read this right, I'm gonna go with craaaaazy broken.

Anyone who takes the feat will do just as you suggest and make sure they can hit the DC taking 10 every time. Then they will go further, and hit 20 higher than the DC every time for a -3 reduction to all metamagics. Even if it was limited to one level of decrease it would still be a bad idea, since it applies to everything. The only metamagic reducers I've seen that aren't broken are Arcane Thesis and Practical Metamagic, which apply to one spell or one feat respectively.

2010-11-07, 06:00 AM
So all your spells are Silent, Still, Extended. For a feat.

Something about that bothers me alot.

(Not that the above assumes full ranks and 18 int. Anything above that gets better. As in, +30 item familiar, 26 int, gives you 51+level. That is +4 max to 9th level spells, and anything below that, you can apply all your metamagics.