PDA

View Full Version : Building Aladdin and Jaffar



gallagher
2010-11-06, 10:48 AM
so last night while watching my younger sister while my parents went out for their anniversary, i was watching aladdin. this got me all inspired to think up how to build both aladdin and jaffar. problem is, i am terrible at building based off of character concepts.

seeing as aladdin is this street-rat, i started to think he would be played as a monk. then i realized the faults there... he is an unarmed swordsage, with hide, move silently, slight of hand, tumble, escape artist and bluff maxed

but what is jaffar? i will admit, unless it is a cleric, i am terrible at building casters. and what kind of bonus does a parrot familiar grant?

Kaje
2010-11-06, 11:13 AM
A parrot familiar is just a refluffed raven, so Appraise iirc.

Jafar would probably be just a wizard, or perhaps beguiler?

And Aladdin would certainly have some rogue in him.

gallagher
2010-11-06, 11:22 AM
A parrot familiar is just a refluffed raven, so Appraise iirc.

Jafar would probably be just a wizard, or perhaps beguiler?

And Aladdin would certainly have some rogue in him.

why rogue? the only thing off the top of my head would be to make him able to disable locks and traps and such, and in the movie (the disney one anyway) only Abu shows talent for being a rogue

Eldan
2010-11-06, 11:25 AM
In most versions of the story I know (I don't remember the disney movie too clearly), he's a thief, so rogue isn't too bad. He was stealing things at least, wasn't he? Thief-Acrobat, perhaps.
Jafar is probably a pretty good fit for a wizard. Though as a Vizier he probably also needs quite a few skill points. Social skills, knowledge, all that. Bard, perhaps? It's a disney movie, so I'd assume he's singing :smalltongue:

In the end, he's also the world's stupidest Efreet, for living in a bottle voluntarily.

Murdim
2010-11-06, 11:55 AM
Jafar is probably a pretty good fit for a wizard. Though as a Vizier he probably also needs quite a few skill points. Social skills, knowledge, all that. Bard, perhaps? It's a disney movie, so I'd assume he's singing :smalltongue:
Wouldn't Aladdin himself fit better as a bard, though, or at least a non-supernatural equivalent ? I mean, he is the main protagonist. Of a Disney movie. From the 90s. Also, Sleight of hand, social skills, and Use magic device.

Jafar is more of a Beguiler type, really.

Greenish
2010-11-06, 12:00 PM
Jafar is probably a pretty good fit for a wizard. Though as a Vizier he probably also needs quite a few skill points. Social skills, knowledge, all that. Bard, perhaps? It's a disney movie, so I'd assume he's singing.Most (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_FguEpJ3fo) decidedly. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9vXZncjGvk)

Urpriest
2010-11-06, 12:12 PM
Jafar, like all good evil viziers (oxymoron much?) should take the Eunuch Warlock PrC. He'd cheese the entry requirements with Alter Self to allow him to still go after Jasmine.

grarrrg
2010-11-06, 12:15 PM
seeing as aladdin is this street-rat, i started to think he would be played as a monk. then i realized the faults there... he is an unarmed swordsage, with hide, move silently, slight of hand, tumble, escape artist and bluff maxed

I'd say he's MUCH more Rogue than Monk/Swordsage, he's fairly skilled (not a "trap" rogue, more a "stealing" rogue).
Process of elimination otherwise?
He's definately not a caster, so no cleric/wizard/etc...(although he has a big blue 'cohort' who is)
He prefers not to get into a straight up fight. Most/All the 'fights' he won in that movie he won more with smarts than anything else, so no Fighter/Barbarian/etc...
And a good hit against Monk is that he doesn't seem very "Wise", he's definately a quick thinker though, so avg/poor Wis, but good/great Int.
Good Cha.
Out of Core that pretty much leaves Rogue (dash of Bard for the singing maybe)


but what is jaffar? i will admit, unless it is a cleric, i am terrible at building casters. and what kind of bonus does a parrot familiar grant?

Definately a caster of some type, I agree with the "reflavoured Raven" idea.

Mmmmmm reflavoured raven *drools*

Lev
2010-11-06, 12:22 PM
Jaffar is a wizard with a parrot familiar.

Alladin is a rogue with a pet monkey, and MAYBE levels in street fighter, but I've seen no reason why he can't be a rogue with improvised weapon proficiency, thief acrobat is a good assessment too.

Xefas
2010-11-06, 01:03 PM
Jafar never actually casts any spells whatsoever (until he wished to be like a 10th level Wizard or something). He has his Snake Staff, which casts Charm Person (a 1st level spell), and he had a massive gizmo in his laboratory that allowed him to use Scrying (a 3rd-4th level spell) with a material component of a giant diamond.

He is clearly a low level Artificer with Obtain Familiar.

Also, keep in mind that Aladdin doesn't have much in the way of fighting skills. He wins most of his conflicts by running the hell away or by just being fast and sneaky. I guess if you had to shoehorn him into D&D, you could do some kind of Unarmed Swordsage with a few Setting Sun maneuvers, and the less combative Desert Wind maneuvers.

RelentlessImp
2010-11-06, 01:05 PM
Jafar never actually casts any spells whatsoever (until he wished to be like a 10th level Wizard or something). He has his Snake Staff, which casts Charm Person (a 1st level spell), and he had a massive gizmo in his laboratory that allowed him to use Scrying (a 3rd-4th level spell) with a material component of a giant diamond.


Correction: An arcane focus of a giant diamond.

Also, his INT can't be that high. He turned into a snake. Turning into a snake never helps.

Urpriest
2010-11-06, 01:11 PM
Correction: An arcane focus of a giant diamond.

Also, his INT can't be that high. He turned into a snake. Turning into a snake never helps.

I don't know, Genre-Savvy seems like it would be governed by Wis, really.

endoperez
2010-11-06, 01:16 PM
Out of Core that pretty much leaves Rogue (dash of Bard for the singing maybe)

Perhaps the variant Rogue who gets feats (as a Fighter) instead of sneak attack? Thief-Acrobat also fits. But what is Abu? Some kind of familiar or animal companion, probably, but no idea what, exactly.

Xefas
2010-11-06, 01:17 PM
Perhaps the variant Rogue who gets feats (as a Fighter) instead of sneak attack? Thief-Acrobat also fits. But what is Abu? Some kind of familiar or animal companion, probably, but no idea what, exactly.

Abu is a Rogue 6 with Leadership. Aladdin is his cohort.

EDIT: Cohort/Mount

Fhaolan
2010-11-06, 01:26 PM
In the Disney animation, I would still put Aladdin as a rogue. His combat is mostly acrobatics, survives as a street-rat, and he heavily uses bluff. Depending on his level, he might have the thief-acrobat PrC, and he likely spent a feat on that wild cohort feat to get a monkey animal companion. Or that's another character being played under the Noble Wild third-party suppliment. :smallsmile:

Jaffar is a wizard who's trying to get the prereqs for a homebrew PrC version of the Sha'ir class.

Greenish
2010-11-06, 01:38 PM
In the Disney animation, I would still put Aladdin as a rogue. His combat is mostly acrobatics, survives as a street-rat, and he heavily uses bluff.Could be a factotum, too.

grarrrg
2010-11-06, 01:42 PM
Abu is a Rogue 6 with Leadership. Aladdin is his cohort.

EDIT: Cohort/Mount

For that, you win +1 internets.

Swooper
2010-11-06, 02:04 PM
Jafar turned into a cobra that was at least huge sized. Cobras are neither vipers nor constrictors, but viper is probably a closer fit. A huge viper is a 6HD animal, so a 7th level wizard could turn into one via Polymorph Self. Jafar also used Wall of Fire, another 4th level spell. The mental influence he had over the sultan and the scrying was the result of his magical items, not his own ability, as has been covered, so neither matters here. So far, Wizard 7 seems a good fit.

Trapping Yasmine in the hourglass is more tricky. Any thoughts on that trick?

Urpriest
2010-11-06, 02:10 PM
Trapping Yasmine in the hourglass is more tricky. Any thoughts on that trick?

Shadow Major Creation?

MarkusWolfe
2010-11-06, 02:22 PM
I haven't got a clue what you're all talking about. Jafar is clearly a sorcerer. He specifically asks the genie to make him the world's most powerful sorcerer. He's got to have a high charisma to have fooled everyone for so long. (remember, Charisma=/=attractiveness)

Greenish
2010-11-06, 02:32 PM
I haven't got a clue what you're all talking about. Jafar is clearly a sorcerer. He specifically asks the genie to make him the world's most powerful sorcerer.An expert can call himself a sorcerer and UMD what little magic Jafar has prior to being boosted by the Genie.

Xefas
2010-11-06, 02:32 PM
(remember, Charisma=/=attractiveness)

I'm not sure why this even needs to be stated. I think Jafar qualifies either way.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad91/bluejanus/JafarandJasmine.png
Pictured: Jafar's "Seduction Face"

...watch out, ladies.

grarrrg
2010-11-06, 02:47 PM
Jafar turned into a cobra that was at least huge sized....also used Wall of Fire, another 4th level spell.....Trapping Yasmine in the hourglass is more tricky. Any thoughts on that trick?

All of these happened AFTER he wished to be "The most powerful Sorcerer IN THE WORLD!"

So apparently the 'second' most powerful Sorcerer in Aladdin's world is level 6.
:smalltongue:

Xefas
2010-11-06, 02:49 PM
So apparently the 'second' most powerful Sorcerer in Aladdin's world is level 6.
:smalltongue:

Which makes a scary amount of sense if you're using E6 rules.

"Most powerful sorcerer in all the world!" *BAM* Level 7

Valameer
2010-11-06, 02:50 PM
Abu is a Rogue 6 with Leadership. Aladdin is his cohort.

EDIT: Cohort/Mount

GAH! Darn it, now I have rice on my monitor! Rice!

Xefas, you'll pay for this! :smallbiggrin:

Lev
2010-11-06, 04:06 PM
Abu is a Rogue 6 with Leadership. Aladdin is his cohort.

EDIT: Cohort/Mount

You just won the thread.

grarrrg
2010-11-06, 05:25 PM
Which makes a scary amount of sense if you're using E6 rules.

"Most powerful sorcerer in all the world!" *BAM* Level 7

Too bad he didn't say "most powerful Wizard", he could have had Level 4 spells.

Mando Knight
2010-11-06, 06:02 PM
Genie, however, is probably a Noble Djinn with at least 7 levels of Bard for extra uses of Major Image, or 8 or more levels of Sorcerer (for Polymorph in addition to the Major Images) and a penchant for singing.

Eldan
2010-11-06, 06:15 PM
Shadow Major Creation?

Reflavoured hold person? Force cage (seems to high-level)?

AslanCross
2010-11-06, 06:45 PM
Aladdin as depicted in the Arabian Nights version of the story would indeed be a rogue or factotum.

Things he did:
1. Sneak into the princess's bathhouse and sneak out undetected.
2. One could argue that he had Use Magic Device, since he activated the magic ring and the magic lamp blindly (more properly, it was his mother who activated the lamp first), but conversely they could just be activated by manipulation.
3. He was intelligent enough to figure out that it was his fake uncle (the unnamed villainous magician) who used the genie of the lamp to teleport away the palace and the princess.
4. He was able to devise a plan to poison the magician.
5. After the death of the magician, Aladdin was able to stab the magician's brother (who had disguised himself as a famous healer and infiltrated the palace; the genie saw through the disguise) and kill him instantly. (Sneak Attack)

He's never done anything that demonstrated any martial arts ability, so I don't agree that he would be a swordsage or monk. All of his heroics in both the Arabian nights version and the Disney movie were performed by keeping his wits about him and improvising.

Jafar in the movie is a combination of two different characters in the AN story: the magician (who was evil) and the grand vizier (who wasn't evil, but did want his son to marry the princess). Either way, Jafar is best represented as a Wizard, and Wizard 7 would be fine.

The AN story describes his magical feats as fairly minor, though:
1. Convince Aladdin and his mother that he was indeed the boy's uncle despite the mom believing he had been dead for years. This might have just been a successful Bluff, or a Charm Person spell.

2. Open/Close (a level 0 spell) on the entrance to the wondrous tomb.

Apart from this, his greatest feat was simply using the genie of the lamp to teleport Aladdin's palace away. The story called him a "Powerful Magician," but in the AN story he did nothing that a Lv 1 Wizard (or probably a Beguiler, as they also have Open/Close) couldn't do.

Mewtarthio
2010-11-06, 07:00 PM
The AN story describes his magical feats as fairly minor, though:
1. Convince Aladdin and his mother that he was indeed the boy's uncle despite the mom believing he had been dead for years. This might have just been a successful Bluff, or a Charm Person spell.

2. Open/Close (a level 0 spell) on the entrance to the wondrous tomb.

Apart from this, his greatest feat was simply using the genie of the lamp to teleport Aladdin's palace away. The story called him a "Powerful Magician," but in the AN story he did nothing that a Lv 1 Wizard (or probably a Beguiler, as they also have Open/Close) couldn't do.

He did divinations, too. That's how he managed to find Aladdin in the first place. Technically, he is a powerful magician compared to an average Joe. That being said the Arabian Nights includes a woman who once turned someone's lower body into marble and then transformed his entire village into a colorful fish pond, so calling Aladdin's nemesis a "powerful magician" is a bit disingenuous.

AslanCross
2010-11-06, 07:03 PM
He did divinations, too. That's how he managed to find Aladdin in the first place. Technically, he is a powerful magician compared to an average Joe. That being said the Arabian Nights includes a woman who once turned someone's lower body into marble and then transformed his entire village into a colorful fish pond, so calling Aladdin's nemesis a "powerful magician" is a bit disingenuous.

Ah yes, I did forget about that part. Still, Aladdin with the Ring and the Lamp > powerful magician. I guess the story was more about matching wits than pitting magic against magic.

Hironomus
2010-11-08, 07:23 AM
I haven't got a clue what you're all talking about. Jafar is clearly a sorcerer. He specifically asks the genie to make him the world's most powerful sorcerer. He's got to have a high charisma to have fooled everyone for so long. (remember, Charisma=/=attractiveness)

I agree with this. I see no indication that he is especially intelligent, (His plans were foiled once by a monkey) and I could come up with most of his schemes no sweat. He IS a disney villain. I think he is just ambitious and very manipulative. One argument for him being a caster at all could be that he possesses highly personalised magical items (a staff matching his character theme, and a scrying device designed to be operated by his familiar) indicating that he may have craft woundrous item, or rod and the nessecary spells and level to create these items.

Not craft rod, the staff one.

Eldan
2010-11-08, 07:24 AM
However, to become a vizier in the first place, he'd have at least some intelligence, I hope. I mean, the Sultan isn't really all that smart, so someone has to be responsible for making the city prosperous.

Hironomus
2010-11-08, 07:31 AM
I dunno, Agrabah didn't seem that prosperous, though that could be due to disinterest in the plight of the downtrodden rather than poor governance. He is probably neutral evil afterall. I am not saying he is stupid, just not brilliant. As far as being a wizard, He doesn't seem especially studious to me. I never saw him preparing spells, even after he just gained several class levels via his 2nd wish.

Myth
2010-11-08, 08:15 AM
How would you stat Jasmine? A Commoner with great Cha and a Wild Cohort Dire Tiger?

Eldan
2010-11-08, 08:17 AM
Well, she doesn't seem to have any special skills, so yes.

Perhaps in the series, which I haven't seen.

Anterean
2010-11-08, 08:18 AM
How would you stat Jasmine? A Commoner with great Cha and a Wild Cohort Dire Tiger?

I think Aristocrat is more fitting

Myth
2010-11-08, 08:43 AM
I think Aristocrat is more fitting

I stand corrected. What level should she be to get a Dire Tiger? Also, since she is a princess she can toss WBL out the window. She can get pretty optimized IMO. And that thing in her hair could be an equivalent of a Circlet of Persuasion.

Avilan the Grey
2010-11-08, 09:53 AM
I have not dived very deeply into the billion of classes, subclasses and prestige classes out there but to me it seems like this:

Aladdin: low level rogue / bard multiclass. High CHA, Quite high INT, less WIS.

Jaffar: Not terribly high level Bard with high USE MAGIC ITEMS. VERY high CHA, just above average INT, WIS about the same as Aladdin.
After getting a hold of the lamp: Bard / Sorceror multiclass (both CHA-based), bard levels untouched but an immediate 12-15 levels of Sorceror added on by Genie.

As for the others... I dislike the whole commoner concept in D&D, especially since there is no logic behind it. All professions should get their own levels (Level 16 master Cobbler!).
More serious certain risk-filled professions shoud: I have said it before but I am 100% sure that Barmaid / Wench is a PC class, otherwise the staff in inns should all have died a long time ago (not to mention where does all "Badass Shop Owners" come from if that is not actually a Character Class?).
A D&D Wench can interrupt poker games between half orcs, tell dwarves they have had enough to drink, and turn down drunk flirting paladins.

grarrrg
2010-11-08, 09:57 AM
How would you stat Jasmine? A Commoner with great Cha and a Wild Cohort Dire Tiger?

Aristocrat seconded.
Dire Tiger vetoed. Plain Tiger ok. Rajah does not have any spikes.



A D&D Wench can interrupt poker games between half orcs, tell dwarves they have had enough to drink, and turn down drunk flirting paladins.

:eek: Someone needs to homebrew the Wench class.
NOW

hamishspence
2010-11-08, 10:04 AM
What about Legendary Tiger? Animal type, in MM2 and Epic Handbook- can be taken as an animal companion, but more formidable than the standard tiger.

Also, I've seen Dire Tiger pics without spikes.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/planar_gallery/82552.jpg

BeholderSlayer
2010-11-08, 10:08 AM
I am pretty sure Jafar is a sorcerer. I think he was even stated as such.

Lapak
2010-11-08, 10:09 AM
What about Legendary Tiger? Animal type, in MM2 and Epic Handbook- can be taken as an animal companion, but more formidable than the standard tiger.

Also, I've seen Dire Tiger pics without spikes.
What about Rajah implies that he's more formidable than an ordinary tiger? Smarter, sure, but the wild/animal companion bit would cover that.

hamishspence
2010-11-08, 10:11 AM
True- it might be more appropriate for higher-level campaigns.

Telonius
2010-11-08, 10:13 AM
Jafar ... hmm. Well, he did get most of his magic as a result of the Genie's power. Before? He was able to disguise himself, had a magic staff that can Dominate Person, apparently dabbled in alchemy and magical devices, has a high charisma and a good perform check, and an Awakened Parrot companion/cohort/familiar. Most of his power came from items. He couldn't actually perform that much magic on his own, which is why he was after the lamp to begin with.

Pre-genie-fication, I'm going to put him at ... Artificer1/Warlock4/Beguiler1 with Leadership (for Iago).

DarkEternal
2010-11-08, 10:16 AM
I'd start Aladdin off as rogue, personally, and perhaps multiclass after finding the lamp. There's that neat class in the Al-Qadim setting that is basically about wizards with genie familiars or something of that sort.

Greenish
2010-11-08, 11:32 AM
I am pretty sure Jafar is a sorcerer. I think he was even stated as such.There's a standard reply for that: :miko:

grarrrg
2010-11-08, 11:59 AM
Also, I've seen Dire Tiger pics without spikes.


BLASPHEMY!
and/or mis-named pictures.

Dire = Spikes, everyone knows that.

casper
2010-11-08, 01:19 PM
What aboutAladin being ranger? Sneaky man with monkey animal companion... Probably non-spellcasting variant from Complete Warrior.

Avilan the Grey
2010-11-08, 01:22 PM
:eek: Someone needs to homebrew the Wench class.
NOW

Seconded.
I might point out that what makes them more awesome is that they can turn down drunk flirting paladins gently!

Urpriest
2010-11-08, 01:44 PM
BLASPHEMY!
and/or mis-named pictures.

Dire = Spikes, everyone knows that.

Mis-named pictures in this case. The tiger pictured is Vivacious, not Dire.

Telonius
2010-11-08, 01:53 PM
Seconded.
I might point out that what makes them more awesome is that they can turn down drunk flirting paladins gently!

Higher levels should get a "Defenstrating Sphere" -like ability to eject unruly patrons. Bonuses if the person tossed is a dwarf.

+8 to balance checks while holding at least one open container of alcohol.

hamishspence
2010-11-08, 02:27 PM
Mis-named pictures in this case. The tiger pictured is Vivacious, not Dire.

It's a dire tiger with the Vivacious template- which makes it incorporeal, but doesn't otherwise affect it's appearence.

Check the 3.5 Art & Map Gallery Archive (Planar handbook) it says Vivacious Dire Tiger.

Myth
2010-11-08, 03:15 PM
THE SERVING WENCH

http://images.elfwood.com/art/n/i/ninajmaria/waitress.jpg

The job has it's perks - sure men stare at you with greasy eyes, you work on foot with barely enough time to grab a piece of cornbread and roasted meats in the kitchens between orders, and your arse is always the object of desire for would be heroes and foul orcs. But when it comes to information, fun and gold coins, I can think of nothing better to do.

Shadra Leylwinn, a Serving Wench

The Serving Wench is a ten level prestige class that focuses on information gathering, dexterous movement and a charismatic persona to get information, gold or even favors in a seamless and non-threatening manner. Where those who slay Dragons and level cities struggle, the Serving Wench succeeds trough finesse and charm.

BECOMING A SERVING WENCH

To become a Serving Wench, one must first understand the very basics of gracious movement and social interaction. One also must possess a level of attractiveness and personal magnetism to make full use of the features of this prestige class.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Tumble: 12 ranks
Balance: 12 ranks
Diplomacy: 12 ranks
Gather Information: 12 ranks
Must have a minimum of 20 Charisma
Must be female

Class Skills

The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skills Points at Each Level: 8 + int

Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Easy Serving, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Attract Stares, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Deny Contact, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Inspire Tip, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Subtle Gossip, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Attract Desire, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Enslave Male, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

8th|
+6|
+2|
+6|
+6|Provoke Envy, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

9th|
+6|
+3|
+6|
+6|Greater Subtle Gossip, + 1 to existing spellcasting class

10th|
+7|
+3|
+7|
+7|Greater Enslave Male, + 1 to existing spellcasting class[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: A Serving Wench gains no weapon proficiencies.

PLAYING SERVING WENCH

The Serving Wench is best suited for subtle manipulation or outright demand of favors by virtue of her intense personal will and gorgeous looks. The most experienced Serving Wenches have Kings and grand Wizards at their beck and call.

Easy Serving (Su):At first level the Serving Wench becomes supernaturally nimble and adept at balance. She may take: 10 on any Balance or Tumble checks, even in situations that normally would not allow that.

Attract Stares (Ex): At her second level, the Serving Wench has such a force of personality that she makes everyone in the room eye her subconsciously. Anyone attempting to take: 10 within a 60 feet radius of the Serving Wench must subtract the total of the Serving Wench's Cha modifier from the result. This ability also makes it impossible for anyone to take 20 on any check, and imposes a penalty to Spot equal to the Serving Wench's Cha modifier. A creature must be able to see the Serving Wench in order for this ability to take effect. Activating this ability is a free action.

Deny Contact (Ex):Each round, as an immediate action, the Serving Wench may make a Touch attack or Grapple aimed at her ineffective. This ability us usable 3+the Serving Wench's Charisma modifier times per day.

Inspire Tip (Su): As a standard action, the Serving Wench may make a Diplomacy check with her character levels as an added bonus. If she beats a DC of the target's total character levels + hit die + Charisma modifier, she immediately compels the target to relinquish gold or items worth 10% of the total wealth it possesses. If the target makes it's save, it is immune to that Serving Wench's Inspire Tip for the next 24 hours. This ability is a [Mind-Affecting] effect.

Subtle Gossip (Ex): The Serving Wench may take: 10 on Gather Information checks, even in situations that normally would not allow that. She also suffers no penalty for repeating the Gather Information checks on the same target up to her Charisma modifier per day.

Attract Desire (Su): Any male target who has been under the effect of the Serving Wench's Attract Stares ability for more then ten minutes is moved one category higher on the positive Diplomacy attitudes list. This ability continues to function for every ten minutes thereafter and the effects stack until the Helpful Attitude is reached.

Enslave Male (Su): As a full round action, the Serving Wench may attempt to convert one male target who has been affected by Attract Desire into a permanent Fanatical ally. She must beat a Diplomacy check equal to the target's hit dice + character levels (if any) + 15 if it is with Helpful Attitude, 25 if it is Friendly or 35 if it is Indifferent. This ability cannot be used on creatures who are Unfriendly or Hostile. Unlike the Epic use of Diplomacy however, this is not a [Mind-Affecting] effect. The Serving Wench can use this ability only on sentient creatures and can target a creature with hit die and character levels up to a maximum of her total character levels + her Charisma modifier.

Provoke Envy (Su): The Serving Wench is so charismatic she forces other females to feel inadequate in her presence. Whenever a female is affected by the Serving Wench's Attract Stares for more then ten minutes, it must make a Fortitude with a DC equal to the Serving Wench's character level + Charisma modifier. If the save is failed, the target is Confused (as the spell) for as long as she is in the area of effect of Attract Stares. If the target makes it's save it must continue to make more saves for each additional 10 minutes it spends in the area of effect, each time increasing the DC of the save by 5.

Greater Subtle Gossip (Ex): As Subtle Gossip but the Serving Wench gains her class levels as a bonus to the Gather Information checks and there is no limit on how many times he performs the check on the same target.

Greater Enslave Male (Su): As Enslave Male but the Serving Wench can target creatures with hit dice and/or character levels equal to twice her character level plus twice her Charisma modifier.

grarrrg
2010-11-08, 03:48 PM
+8 to balance checks while holding at least one open container of alcohol.

I remember an episode of Cheers once had a "waitressing competition", and one of the contestants tried to trip Carla (while she had a full serving tray), and Carla does a one hand cartwheel and doesn't spill a drop.
Sadly, trying to do searches for it fail. I either get random Cheers episodes, or cheerleading competitions.


THE SERVING WENCH

I like it, but I do have a question.
How/why does it get spellcasting?

EDIT: I do believe the thread is officially derailed. Don't tell the mods.

Myth
2010-11-08, 04:03 PM
Because this is 3.5. Spellcasting = good. And i did it for fun didn't put much balance into it. As you can see this can easily become the most broken Diplomancer ever.

Mordaenor
2010-11-08, 04:07 PM
Alladin: Apologies if someone already made this point and I missed it... but aren't Monks required to be Lawful? While Aladin does demonstrate some impressive Dexterity that could be associated with the Monk class, I'm pretty sure a guy who spent his formative years stealing to eat would not meet any definition of "Lawful." Whether he had much choice in the matter is neither he nore there, a moral choice made under duress is still a moral choice. I don't know if it was dropped for 3.5, but Song & Silence had a "Thief Acrobat" PrC that is probably exactly what Disney's Aladin would be. He does demonstrate some sword competence in the final scene of the movie, but I think so well spent Feats could account for that.

Jasmine: Definitely a high level Aristocrat.

Jafar: This is the tricky one. I actually am going to say bard, with maybe one level of Sorceror (to get Iago as a familiar). While he's totally not the typical idea of what we think of as a bard, it makes sense. His entire power is based on influencing others, and last I checked, Bards have more Charisma class skills than Sorcerors. Until he get his hands on the lamp himself, there is little "awe inspiring" magic about him.

Mando Knight
2010-11-08, 04:20 PM
Because this is 3.5. Spellcasting = good. And i did it for fun didn't put much balance into it. As you can see this can easily become the most broken Diplomancer ever.

Looks amusing, at least. Though I'd put the entry requirement skill ranks at 8 each, to fit with most other 10-level PrCs (that I'm familiar with, anyway), or make it a base class (possibly with Bard casting if spellcasting is desired).

Susano-wo
2010-11-08, 06:20 PM
Jasmine: judging from her outfit, I'd say Jasmine is defintiely an aristocrat. Harem girls are still high class, in overall social terms >.>


Aladin would defintiely be a rogue, though because ToB is awesome, a couple levels of unarmed SS for some cool boosts, etc would be sweet

RE: Jafar's power. Just because we don't see him wielding X-level spells doesn't mean he doesn't posess them. That being said, his magic definitely seems more subtle than a Dnd wizard's (gee, go figure:smallwink:), though its not fair to assume that the staf is a magic item, and not, say, a focus for his hypnosis-type spell/spells. Also of note"but you're so...old":smallbiggrin:
But there is no reason to assume that he can only cast 4th lvl spells. all he was dealing with was a street rat, and incompetant sultan, and a princess. (I'd also call the trick he does with aladin and the tower a reflavored teleport spell (greater telepot?) so that's at least 5th lvl spells, right?

Eldonauran
2010-11-08, 06:22 PM
I would stat them out as follows:

Aladdin: Rogue (Variant: Feat vs sneak attacks) with ranks in perform, umd, diplomacy, hide, move silently and tumble (maybe Bluff, too). Wild cohort/Leadership feat to get Abu.

Jasmine: Aristocrat, for sure. Wild Cohort for Razja (tiger)

Jaffar: Prior to 2nd wish: Bard/Warlock with Obtain Familiar to get Iago. After 2nd wish, full blown sorcerer with access to reserve feats?

Lapak
2010-11-08, 09:58 PM
Now that I think about it, Jafar pre-wishing is probably mostly Aristocrat, too.

His scrying is item-assisted, so the only magic spells we see him casting are Hypnotism (not surprisingly the best fit for his hypno-staff trick) and maybe Disguise Self (when he adopts the appearance of the old man.) Even the disguise seems at least partially mundane, but it's convincing enough I could call that magical.

What he DOES do is serve as chief adviser to the ruler of the kingdom, manage the guards, and do various underhanded (but not stealthy) stuff.
So, he could be a Sorcerer 1 / Aristocrat X.

After the wish, of course, he gets a big boost to his Sorcerer levels.

Drakevarg
2010-11-08, 10:21 PM
Y'know, all this talk of needing Wild Cohort for Razja/Abu is kind of unnessicary. Razja at least was almost certaintly raised from a cub, so all you really need is a DC 21 Handle Animal check to get him as a pet. Probably done by one of the palace staff, then given to Jasmine. Abu would've been even easier, and Aladdin might've even done it himself.

Not to mention I highly doubt Aladdin was 6th level. Hell, I'd be suprised if he was 3rd level.

Fhaolan
2010-11-09, 12:59 AM
Y'know, all this talk of needing Wild Cohort for Razja/Abu is kind of unnessicary. Razja at least was almost certaintly raised from a cub, so all you really need is a DC 21 Handle Animal check to get him as a pet. Probably done by one of the palace staff, then given to Jasmine. Abu would've been even easier, and Aladdin might've even done it himself.

Not to mention I highly doubt Aladdin was 6th level. Hell, I'd be suprised if he was 3rd level.

I think they're trying to allow for the Disney-standard unusual intelligence of the beasties by making them familiars/animal companions/paladin mounts/etc. The alternative is that they are PCs themselves (Or fully generated NPCs), and are using awakened animal/noble animals as a basis.

Drakevarg
2010-11-09, 01:07 AM
I think they're trying to allow for the Disney-standard unusual intelligence of the beasties by making them familiars/animal companions/paladin mounts/etc. The alternative is that they are PCs themselves (Or fully generated NPCs), and are using awakened animal/noble animals as a basis.

Or the DM isn't of the opinion that every animal on the planet besides humans is lobotomized and has an INT of 2.

Fhaolan
2010-11-09, 03:03 AM
Or the DM isn't of the opinion that every animal on the planet besides humans is lobotomized and has an INT of 2.

True, but in the spirit of these kinds of threads, I try to stick as close to D&D-standard definitions as I can. In which case as animals they would have INT of 2-3 unless they have some specific method around that such as animal companion, awakening, or some such.

Using Disney films, and most other animation studios, as a basis of a campaign world, and you're dealing with a non-standard D&D where animals normally have INT scores that come close, if not exceed the PC races. :smallsmile:

Personally, my campaign world is about half-way between them. It is full of intelligent animals of all types through all sorts of mechanisms. Most animals are still animals (I train horses and dogs, and I have volunteered at zoos, so I have a different appraisal at to how intelligent animals actually are. Many animals are more intelligent on average then most people think, but they *aren't* as intelligent on average as some people want them to be.), but there are enough exceptions to cover the needs of players who want to do something different.

Avilan the Grey
2010-11-09, 03:13 AM
Looks amusing, at least. Though I'd put the entry requirement skill ranks at 8 each, to fit with most other 10-level PrCs (that I'm familiar with, anyway), or make it a base class (possibly with Bard casting if spellcasting is desired).

Yes, I appreciate the work Myth put into it, but I think Serving Wench must be a base class, not a prestige one, since it is a profession (just like basic Bard, Rogue, Monk etc).

As for animal intelligence: ALMOST every animal on the planet has INT 2 at the MOST. There are exceptions, but those are rare (some birds, particulary anything from the crow family (crows, ravens, magpies) and the larger parrots (studies show that the largest parrots have about ape-rate intelligence), the large apes, dolphins and some other sea mammals, and elephants. Elephants are the only mammal other than man that recognizes their own bones, and knows that an elephant skeleton is indeed a dead elephant, even if it was not part of this particular herd when alive).

Personal observation: I can easily draw comparisons in reasoning skills between my fully mature cats and my nephew when he was about 3-3½ years old; it seems that a cat's top intelligence level is about the same as a human 3-4 year old.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-09, 03:20 AM
I always pictured Aladdin as a rogue: street thief (I think that's enough to justify rogue) with at least moderate combat skills not to mention agile and quick and doesn't wear armor (but then again, does anyone in the film series?:smallconfused:). Maybe a few levels of monk too, but definitely rogue.

As for Jaffar, maybe a few levels of bard: he can definitely manipulate the sultan. I always pictured him as an arcane caster. Let's also not forget his parrot so maybe have a familiar (wizard or sorcerer). I also think you should also include in the build some way for him to become a giant snake. That's one of the things I loved about him in the film.

Myth
2010-11-09, 04:32 AM
Yes, I appreciate the work Myth put into it, but I think Serving Wench must be a base class, not a prestige one, since it is a profession (just like basic Bard, Rogue, Monk etc).

You know... I have a life too. :smalltongue: Yes a base class would fit better. If i wanted to make it an actually playable class I'd have to tone it down a bit and possibly design a custom spell list a-la Bard. But I don't have the time now.

Avilan the Grey
2010-11-09, 04:41 AM
As for Jaffar, maybe a few levels of bard: he can definitely manipulate the sultan. I always pictured him as an arcane caster. Let's also not forget his parrot so maybe have a familiar (wizard or sorcerer). I also think you should also include in the build some way for him to become a giant snake. That's one of the things I loved about him in the film.

I see him as a bard mainly; I would say that in my envisioned backstory, he is a con artist, and a treasure hunter but above all a man that goes over bodies of innocents to get more power. I see him use magical items, but not actually perform any magic himself, until after the lamp is given to him. I am not sure how to get a parrot familiar without being a wizard though, but as I said in my vision of him he is not a wizard or a sorcerer, but a trickster, con artist and murderer.

Souhiro
2010-11-09, 04:46 AM
You know, Al didn't fight until the very end, He would be a DEX-20 (or more) roge, since he dodges a lot. I think you want him to be a monk because all the dodging, but remembet that Al is Chaotic Good to the bone, and a monk MUST be lawful.

Perhaps, put him just ONE ranger level, for the sake of having Abu as an animal companion.



Jafar would be a wizard or a sorcerer (I bet for sorcerer, since he didn't had any spellbook) There is a feat, I think I saw it in Baldurs Gate, "Courteous Magocracy" that allows to add your INT to all your CHA related throws, and was supossed to impersonate the "Court Mage" who could use diplomacy as well as fireballs.

Myth
2010-11-09, 05:06 AM
You know, Al didn't fight until the very end, He would be a DEX-20 (or more) roge, since he dodges a lot. I think you want him to be a monk because all the dodging, but remembet that Al is Chaotic Good to the bone, and a monk MUST be lawful.

Perhaps, put him just ONE ranger level, for the sake of having Abu as an animal companion.

Jafar would be a wizard or a sorcerer (I bet for sorcerer, since he didn't had any spellbook) There is a feat, I think I saw it in Baldurs Gate, "Courteous Magocracy" that allows to add your INT to all your CHA related throws, and was supossed to impersonate the "Court Mage" who could use diplomacy as well as fireballs.

AFAIK there is a way to make a Chaotic Monk. Not that it matters though, I still think Rogue into Thief Acrobat fits better.

Rangers don't get Animal Companion until level 4.

Courteous Magocracy is a FR feat, you can find it in the FRCS and it only grants bonuses to skill checks.

hamishspence
2010-11-09, 05:18 AM
Chaotic monk is the easy part (monks retain all their powers if they change alignment- they just can't advance any more).

Chaotic monk that continues advancing- that's the hard bit.

There's also a Dragon Compendium class that can be summed up as "chaotic variant of monk"- I think it's called Battle Dancer.

Shpadoinkle
2010-11-09, 05:26 AM
Aladdin would be a straight rogue, maybe level 2 or 3. Yeah yeah, he sang, but rogues get Perform as a class skill too. I guess you could make a case for him being higher level due to the fight at the climax of the first movie, but that's kind of iffy. That could all be justified with lucky rolls and/or Jaffar picking a sucky form.

Maybe swap out his armor proficiency for removing the penalty when using improvised weapons to deal subdual damage, as he rarely actually fought anyone with the intent to kill, just stymie them while he got away.

Jaffar, I think, would be a wizard or beguiler, or maybe an artificer- the few times we actually see him use magic before he wishes to become the most powerful sorcerer in the world is when he's hypnotizing the sultan (via his staff, and the spell was broken when Aladdin broke the staff) or using some kind of scrying device (there may be other instances, but I haven't watched the movie in ages.) After the wish, he'd be a fair bit more powerful- at least level 7, as Polymorph is a level 4 spell.

Hironomus
2010-11-09, 07:59 AM
I like to think that in every Disney film there is an additional, invisible, omnipresent character with a hole heap of bard levels.
This character is affiliated with everyone and almost constantly uses its song to provide a huge bonus to players. All the player and indeed the antagonist needs to do to access the bonus is join in the song. Thus all main characters have at least afew ranks in perform (sing).
An example is in aladdin, the song in which he is escaping the city guards whilst bemoaning his status as a street rat is him accessing a gigantic inspire competence bonus to help with his tumbling, jumping etc.
Lets face it. Disney songs are pretty uplifting.

Hironomus
2010-11-09, 08:10 AM
Chaotic monk is the easy part (monks retain all their powers if they change alignment- they just can't advance any more).

Chaotic monk that continues advancing- that's the hard bit.

There's also a Dragon Compendium class that can be summed up as "chaotic variant of monk"- I think it's called Battle Dancer.

Isn't there a Monk variant somewhere called the chaos monk? It's chaotic? gets Flailing strike or something instead of flurry of blows?
Might be dragon but still.

I still think he'd just be a rogue.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-09, 08:11 AM
I see him as a bard mainly; I would say that in my envisioned backstory, he is a con artist, and a treasure hunter but above all a man that goes over bodies of innocents to get more power. I see him use magical items, but not actually perform any magic himself, until after the lamp is given to him. I am not sure how to get a parrot familiar without being a wizard though, but as I said in my vision of him he is not a wizard or a sorcerer, but a trickster, con artist and murderer.

Well one level of sorcerer or wizard and you can have a familiar. Also, I really think the build should have some way to become a giant snake. That's the closest he came to killing Aladdin in the first film (if my memory is correct) so it's goes without saying that the build should somehow include it.

Telonius
2010-11-09, 08:57 AM
If we're treating Iago as a familiar, Jafar would have to be at least a 9th-level spellcaster. No way is Iago's Int any less than 10. Jafar just doesn't strike me as having quite that much power. Iago's either an Awakened animal, or has some houseruled "Disney Sidekick" template. Either way, it seems like he's more of an independent actor than most Familiars would be. (He does abandon Jafar in a subsequent movie, after all).

MightyIgoo
2010-11-09, 09:19 AM
Yes, I appreciate the work Myth put into it, but I think Serving Wench must be a base class, not a prestige one, since it is a profession (just like basic Bard, Rogue, Monk etc).

As for animal intelligence: ALMOST every animal on the planet has INT 2 at the MOST. There are exceptions, but those are rare (some birds, particulary anything from the crow family (crows, ravens, magpies) and the larger parrots (studies show that the largest parrots have about ape-rate intelligence), the large apes, dolphins and some other sea mammals, and elephants. Elephants are the only mammal other than man that recognizes their own bones, and knows that an elephant skeleton is indeed a dead elephant, even if it was not part of this particular herd when alive).

Personal observation: I can easily draw comparisons in reasoning skills between my fully mature cats and my nephew when he was about 3-3½ years old; it seems that a cat's top intelligence level is about the same as a human 3-4 year old.

How exactly are you defining intelligence? Tool-using? Sea otters will bring rocks up from the surface of the ocean to crack open sea urchins and mollusks. Problem-solving? Dolphins and apes can do this quite handily. Countless animals show empathy toward their own kind (wolves, elephants, apes, dolphins, squirrels, horses, etc.) and some show empathy towards other species, as well. Stories about dolphins saving the lives of drowning humans, or wolves playing with ravens. Honestly, most of our problems with dealing with nonhuman animals seem to be communication: Animals have intelligence, we just have no frame of reference in order to speak with them. One of the fun things about being engaged to a grad student is that I'm learning that the definitions of "intelligence" are having to be constantly rewritten. I find that D&D's rules of intelligence work fine for humanoids but start breaking down around nonhumans.

Avilan the Grey
2010-11-09, 09:58 AM
How exactly are you defining intelligence? Tool-using? Sea otters will bring rocks up from the surface of the ocean to crack open sea urchins and mollusks. Problem-solving? Dolphins and apes can do this quite handily. Countless animals show empathy toward their own kind (wolves, elephants, apes, dolphins, squirrels, horses, etc.) and some show empathy towards other species, as well. Stories about dolphins saving the lives of drowning humans, or wolves playing with ravens. Honestly, most of our problems with dealing with nonhuman animals seem to be communication: Animals have intelligence, we just have no frame of reference in order to speak with them. One of the fun things about being engaged to a grad student is that I'm learning that the definitions of "intelligence" are having to be constantly rewritten. I find that D&D's rules of intelligence work fine for humanoids but start breaking down around nonhumans.

That is exactly the problem; most animals do not run on our scale. Cats are more or less equivalent of 3-4 year old humans, except that they are much better at calculating angles etc for hunting. The same goes for many other animals; otters are capable of creating tools, although the best tool makers are crows, which are even better at it than apes. But they are less developed in other ways.

Basically the problem is that the INT score measures human intelligence, with all the quirks and priorities that we have. I would say an otter has INT 2, if only measuring the human-equivalent parts of it's intelligence. The point is that that does not measure all of it's brain capabilities since it does not prioritizes the same things as a human brain.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-09, 10:37 AM
Maybe Iago should just be a parrot with the fiendish template. You're telling me a talking animal with the voice of Gilbert Gottfried isn't from the lower planes.

DarkEternal
2010-11-09, 04:19 PM
Now that I think of it, if we are talking Aladdin from Disney, he could also be an Urban Ranger. They are awesome in the cities with their abilities, and I remember, dimly though, that they can(or must, forgot) have a small animal companion(weasel, rat, so yeah, a tiny monkey could do too). Still going for that genie master thing class after getting to Genie.

mangosta71
2010-11-09, 06:41 PM
I think, at the end, Aladdin's wish after freeing the genie should have been "I wish for you to make me a prince."

For the Serving Wench base class, making a spell list would be easy. Allow almost everything from the enchantment school (or telepathy, if you prefer psionics) and pretty much nothing else.

Susano-wo
2010-11-09, 06:42 PM
I think, at the end, Aladdin's wish after freeing the genie should have been "I wish for you to make me a prince."



He already did that...y'now, it was, I think, his first one?

mangosta71
2010-11-09, 06:46 PM
He already did that...y'now, it was, I think, his first one?
Yes, but I mean when Genie told him to wish for something outrageous, like the Nile, he should have repeated his first wish. It would have been glorious just to see his "I see what you did there" face.

Susano-wo
2010-11-09, 07:15 PM
Yes, but I mean when Genie told him to wish for something outrageous, like the Nile, he should have repeated his first wish. It would have been glorious just to see his "I see what you did there" face.

sorry, I think I'm dense...:smallfrown:
The joke is that he already asked for that so he's basically starting the trouble all over again? (again, sorry...:smalleek:)

mangosta71
2010-11-09, 08:55 PM
No, the point is that the Genie is telling Aladdin to wish for something ridiculous just so that he can say no. If he had wished to be made a prince again instead, Genie's "NO WAY!" would be kind of a **** move.

The joke then becomes that the Genie is either still granting wishes or a phenomenal jerk.

Eldan
2010-11-10, 04:42 AM
He should wish to be in the 1001 nights version, so he could have infinite wishes. Two artefacts granting infinite wishes each, actually. :smallwink:

MarkusWolfe
2010-11-10, 07:56 AM
That is exactly the problem; most animals do not run on our scale. Cats are more or less equivalent of 3-4 year old humans, except that they are much better at calculating angles etc for hunting. The same goes for many other animals; otters are capable of creating tools, although the best tool makers are crows, which are even better at it than apes. But they are less developed in other ways.

Basically the problem is that the INT score measures human intelligence, with all the quirks and priorities that we have. I would say an otter has INT 2, if only measuring the human-equivalent parts of it's intelligence. The point is that that does not measure all of it's brain capabilities since it does not prioritizes the same things as a human brain.

So....you're saying an otter really has Int 4?


He should wish to be in the 1001 nights version, so he could have infinite wishes. Two artifacts granting infinite wishes each, actually. :smallwink:

Correction: 1 artifact that grants Lesser Wish and 1 artifact that grants Wish.

Avilan the Grey
2010-11-10, 09:27 AM
So....you're saying an otter really has Int 4?


No, I am saying exactly what I am saying: We can't 100% accurately measure their intelligence.