Out there idea-is Elan related to Xykon?

[Ilmryn]

In the Start of Darkness book, the still-living Xykon looks remarkably similar to Elan, or Elan's father. Do you think it is possible that Xykon may be related to Elan? They don't really have much in common, exept possibly intelligence, or rather, the lack thereof.

[BridgeCity]

I'd say not because he is already related to one of the bad guys, and two just seems too many.

Be prepared for lots of people telling you there are only so many ways to draw a stcik figure, that always turns up in these sorts of threads.

[Cizak]

Xykon, lack of intelligence? Say whaaat? :smallconfused: Xykon is very smart in my opinion, he just uses his intelligence in a different way.

[Darth Hunterix]

Well...
Xykon has sense of drama... High Charisma... He thinks coffee is important, and so does Elan (look hoe he tries to bribe V in #81 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html)
We don't know who is Tarquin's father... But I don't think Elan's father was a nice guy, so Xykon would fit...

It's official: Xykon is Elan's grandfather.

[Conuly]

Oh, I'll say it: There are only so many ways to draw stick figures! Blond hair and no nose does NOT a family resemblance make!

[Leecros]

Oh, I'll say it: There are only so many ways to draw stick figures! Blond hair and no nose does NOT a family resemblance make!

what are these...."Noses" You speak of?

[Darth Hunterix]

Oh, I'll say it: There are only so many ways to draw stick figures!

How many exactly? Have you counted them?

[KoboldRevenge]

He probably had a bunch of illegitimit kids between his hometown and where he met Redcloak.:smallwink: Bow chicka Bow wow!

[Morph Bark]

Well...
Xykon has sense of drama... High Charisma... He thinks coffee is important, and so does Elan (look hoe he tries to bribe V in #81 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html)
We don't know who is Tarquin's father... But I don't think Elan's father was a nice guy, so Xykon would fit...

It's official: Xykon is Elan's grandfather.

Now that he has said it, it must be canon!

[Zevox]

In the Start of Darkness book, the still-living Xykon looks remarkably similar to Elan, or Elan's father.
*looks back at young Xykon, re-reads this statement with incredulity*

No, no he really doesn't. Not in the least.


Oh, I'll say it: There are only so many ways to draw stick figures! Blond hair and no nose does NOT a family resemblance make!
Heck, Xykon didn't even have blond hair. He had black hair (or at least dark hair of some kind - kind of impossible to tell in a black-and-white book), which turned white partway through the story on account of him growing old.

Zevox

[Kish]

Yes, and the black bald bandit was totally Roy, too...

[Dr.Epic]

It's official: Xykon is Elan's grandfather.

Where's the evidence Xykon ever had offspring? We know nothing of any siblings, cousins, aunts, or uncles, and Xykon killed his own parents (well, was responsible for their deaths) as seen in SoD. Where are the other relations? I doubt they're related.

[Darth Hunterix]

C'mon, do you think, that the guy with his charisma would never get a laid? I doubt.

And as for evidence... well... um... How to say it... I think I've left it in my other jacket.

[Gift Jeraff]

The only pros I can see for it are:
-Tarquin is not a blond, as per #725 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html)
-Nale is a sorcerer

In which case maybe Xykon's sorcerer blood came from Outsiders--Celia! That way Roy marries into the same family as Elan and 3 of his enemies!

And don't forgot that Girard is also somewhere in this family. And is Ian Starshine. Plus the old gladiator with both legs.

In fact, every character in the comic is related.


Where's the evidence Xykon ever had offspring? We know nothing of any siblings, cousins, aunts, or uncles, and Xykon killed his own parents (well, was responsible for their deaths) as seen in SoD. Where are the other relations? I doubt they're related.
Well, Xykon implies that he has kidnapped and had sex with women before. However, I HIGHLY doubt Xykon let them live.

EDIT: The mother is Yydranna! Xykon says she's good in the sack and if they never met again she could still be alive! Case closed.

Well, she'd probably be great-grandmother of Elan, in that case.

[Conuly]

what are these...."Noses" You speak of?

And yet, Bluddy, the Hurt and Burnie, and the man himself (XYKON!) all have noses. Or at least, Xykon has a nasal cavity, which is where the nose should've been.

[Dr.Epic]

Well, Xykon implies that he has kidnapped and had sex with women before. However, I HIGHLY doubt Xykon let them live.

EDIT: The mother is Yydranna! Xykon says she's good in the sack and if they never met again she could still be alive! Case closed.

Well, she'd probably be great-grandmother of Elan, in that case.

Then where's the family resemblance from Yydranna? I just checked my copy of SoD, and her skin tone looks kind of dark. I know it's in black and white, but it sort of resembles Durkon's skin color. Also, Xykon alive doesn't look like Elan. I just check, and it's not that great a resemblance. Xykon hair is black and it's more mess. The only thing that does look the same is that their both parted in kind of the same fashion, and that's hardly the conclusion one can draw from it.

[Gift Jeraff]

Then where's the family resemblance from Yydranna? I just checked my copy of SoD, and her skin tone looks kind of dark. I know it's in black and white, but it sort of resembles Durkon's skin color. Also, Xykon alive doesn't look like Elan. I just check, and it's not that great a resemblance. Xykon hair is black and it's more mess. The only thing that does look the same is that their both parted in kind of the same fashion, and that's hardly the conclusion one can draw from it.

Either you or I just got "whooshed".

[Morph Bark]

Then where's the family resemblance from Yydranna? I just checked my copy of SoD, and her skin tone looks kind of dark. I know it's in black and white, but it sort of resembles Durkon's skin color. Also, Xykon alive doesn't look like Elan. I just check, and it's not that great a resemblance. Xykon hair is black and it's more mess. The only thing that does look the same is that their both parted in kind of the same fashion, and that's hardly the conclusion one can draw from it.

Skin tone genetics don't follow a perfect mix or anything like that regarding offspring. One of my ancestors a few generations back was dark-toned (either she was from Surinam or from Sri Lanka) and it doesn't show in any of my grandparents.

The rest though is of greater importance, considering hair genetics are skewed towards the dark end (which is why within centuries there won't be natural redheads or blondes unless science interferes with genetics). The messiness could be explained as bad hygene though.

[archon_huskie]

Well if bards and sorcerers get their magic from having dragon blood in them, then Elan and Xykon are related if you go far enough back to Tiamat if you must.

[Morquard]

*gasp* V familicided Elan's great-great-grandparents!

[Kish]

Then Elan would be dead. :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

*gasp* V familicided Elan's cousins twelve times removed!

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Because Elan is OBVIOUSLY a Brass or White Dragon descendant.

[NegativeFifteen]

As utterly ridiculous I think this is, I'll throw this out there. Elan's mother had blond hair. He could have inherited it from her.

[Gift Jeraff]

As utterly ridiculous I think this is, I'll throw this out there. Elan's mother had blond hair. He could have inherited it from her.

I think that may have been what Rich intended when he gave young Tarquin non-blond hair. That is, since they look nearly identical to their father, he had to give them some physical quality they inherited from their mother.

[NegativeFifteen]

I think that may have been what Rich intended when he gave young Tarquin non-blond hair. That is, since they look nearly identical to their father, he had to give them some physical quality they inherited from their mother.

Exactly. So his other relatives could have dark hair, and he would still be a blond because of his mother. (The whole 'young xykon has dark hair' argument was the lead against the idea.

[Nimrod's Son]

The whole 'young xykon has dark hair' argument was the lead against the idea.
No, "they look nothing like each other and there's no reason whatsoever to suspect any sort of connection between the two" was the lead against the idea. The hair-colour thing was just part of it.

[NegativeFifteen]

No, "they look nothing like each other and there's no reason whatsoever to suspect any sort of connection between the two" was the lead against the idea. The hair-colour thing was just part of it.

Meh. I'm not really buying this idea to much anyway.

[Bongos]

ah hahaha, wackiest theory yet! You receive a "No-prize" award!

[Gd8908]

Hello, I am from a secret agency that created the internet and monitors it discreetly, and I would just like to inform you that you've won our award, "Wackiest Theory for Fan of (Webcomic N)". Don't worry. This is all off the record. Just congratulate yourself quietly and don't tell anyone.

[Ilmryn]

Heck, Xykon didn't even have blond hair. He had black hair (or at least dark hair of some kind - kind of impossible to tell in a black-and-white book), which turned white partway through the story on account of him growing old.

Zevox

No, the young Xykon doesn't really have that much resemblance. However, the older Xykon's hair is almost excatly the same as Tarquin's, which is how the idea started.

[PsychoticPanda]

Xykon, lack of intelligence? Say whaaat? :smallconfused: Xykon is very smart in my opinion, he just uses his intelligence in a different way.

Ahh but as we know, Elan's family is very smart, and he would be to, but Nale just slapped him in the head one to many times.

[137beth]

Xykon also seems to have rather low wisdom, as does Elan. But I think that if they were closely related (close enough to have family resemblance), then Xykon might have some knowledge of it, or else it may have been found out when he worked with Nale. The fact that Nale hasn't bragged about it is strange. Or they might all be unaware...

[Detrinex]

Rich recycles hairdos often.

[Zevox]

No, the young Xykon doesn't really have that much resemblance. However, the older Xykon's hair is almost excatly the same as Tarquin's, which is how the idea started.
So this theory is about as sound as the one that says that Haley is related to Girard because they both have ponytails. Less so, actually, because those two actually have the same hair color, which while not valid evidence of being related, is still stronger evidence than having the same hair style.

Yeah, I remain completely incredulous about the whole idea.

Zevox

[Roland Itiative]

Everyone in OotS is related. Why? O-Chul. Yeah, I went there. O-Chul is the great-(...)-great-grandfather of everyone, up to and including the gods... and the Snarl. And MitD. Xykon's sorcerer powers come from his Badass Bloodline.

[Morph Bark]

Xykon, lack of intelligence? Say whaaat? :smallconfused: Xykon is very smart in my opinion, he just uses his intelligence in a different way.

Low Wis, high Cha, fair Int but nothing out of the ordinary. About right.

[Darth Hunterix]

A little off-topic:
You know, from the very begining this thread looked very familiar to me, and I finally realised why: once upon a time, on one Star Wars forum I laughed at thread with the idea that Darth Sidious is Anakin's father, he just somehow made his mother forget about it. And now it appears, that the Star Wars refrences in OotS went way further, than The Giant himself probably anticipated, because we even have similar wacky fan theories.
Oh, by the way, before anyone asks: the theory about Sidious being Anakin's father has been unfortunately proven wrong. It was fun though.

And now back to thread:
Xykon would have to be way better organized to make sure that he hasn't left any offspring...

[Zherog]

The rest though is of greater importance, considering hair genetics are skewed towards the dark end (which is why within centuries there won't be natural redheads or blondes unless science interferes with genetics). The messiness could be explained as bad hygene though.

old urban legend is old (http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/blondes.asp)

[Theodoriph]

Xykon and Roy both lack hair. I think they're related.

[Darth Hunterix]

Elan is going to have happy ending & Elan dreams (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0739.html) of being Roy's relative & Xykon and Elan are related => Xykon is related to Roy as well.

Well it makes a little bit of sense... Maybe not a lot, but still.

[abc123]

i think thay are related in fact elan will add him a macebook maleck as well

[Morph Bark]

old urban legend is old (http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/blondes.asp)

Still doesn't take away that darker hair is dominant though.

[binyamin20]

In the Start of Darkness book, the still-living Xykon looks remarkably similar to Elan, or Elan's father. Do you think it is possible that Xykon may be related to Elan? They don't really have much in common, exept possibly intelligence, or rather, the lack thereof.

For the love of.... THERE ONLY SO MANY WAYS TO DRAW A STICK FIGURE!! WE WENT THROUGH THIS WITH HALEYS DAD AND GIRAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

[Scarlet Knight]

:elan: "So, you're the real reason my parents divorced?"

:xykon: "Yes, Tarquin found out I was boning your mother..."

[Roland Itiative]

:elan: "So, you're the real reason my parents divorced?"

:xykon: "Yes, Tarquin found out I was boning your mother..."

This goes against Xykon's established character. Unless Elan's mum is an undead. Remember, Xykon isn't a disgusting biophiliac :smallwink:

[hamishspence]

Still doesn't take away that darker hair is dominant though.

But recessive genes don't just go away- they get passed on.

Suppose, for some reason, a person were to select all the dark-haired adult people on the planet, and have them form a self-contained breeding population. No blondes, no redheads.

Fairly quickly, blondes and redheads will start popping up over the next few generations.

[Red XIV]

Elan is human. Xykon used to be human. Thus, on some level they're related, just like all the other human characters. They've at least got common ancestors from back when the gods first created the current iteration of the OotS universe.

[Conuly]

Still doesn't take away that darker hair is dominant though.

Yeah, but dominant doesn't necessarily mean predominant, and it certainly doesn't mean "more likely to be passed on" or "better in evolutionary terms".

If anything, it's EASIER to get rid of a dominant gene than a recessive one. If I wanted to get rid of all the dark-haired people in the world, I'd just have to take them all and keep them from breeding. But light haired folks? Sure, I could kill off all the blondes this generation, but we'd get more next. Kill them too? We'd still have more in the next generation after that. In fact, barring genetic testing, even after a few generations of no blondes I still couldn't be sure that I'd wiped out that trait - there could be dark-haired people carrying the trait who simply were isolated from each other or, through luck, hadn't had any blond children. Those genes could proliferate through carriers until eventually they popped up in new babies.

Of course, hair color is a multi-gene trait. That makes it harder still.

In short? Blondes aren't going extinct, and even massive selective pressure to keep them from reproducing wouldn't make that happen that easily.

[Thanatosia]

Xykon, lack of intelligence? Say whaaat? Xykon is very smart in my opinion, he just uses his intelligence in a different way.
Xykon was a bumbling idiot in life. It was only he became a Lich that he started to acquire real smarts (the Lich template does have bonuses to INT and WIS, and I think he also built on those with his level bonuses and perhaps other means like wish spells or something sense then).

Xykon even comments himself that he learned far more in death then he ever did in Life. Xykon does indeed maintain a false facade of idiocy and obliviousness that conceals his true intelligence and perceptiveness, but SoD strongly implied to me that the ruse only became a ruse and not the real-deal sometime after his Undeath.

[archon_huskie]

But recessive genes don't just go away- they get passed on.

Suppose, for some reason, a person were to select all the dark-haired adult people on the planet, and have them form a self-contained breeding population. No blondes, no redheads.

Fairly quickly, blondes and redheads will start popping up over the next few generations.

Congratulations hamishspence!

You Win Biology Forever!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailBiologyForever

[Zombie Nixon]

You ever notice how Xykon is surprisingly picky when it comes to spelling and grammar? He kills the executioner for spelling guillotine wrong, he lectures the paladin SoD about proper grammar, he gets pissed when his name is spelled with a Z, etc

[Cybertoy00]

I actually had a similar thought, on the Elan-Xykon connection thing...more specifically, I imagined Tarquin and Malack used to work for Xykon. In Start of Darkness, pre-lich Xykon mentions needing new henchment since his old ones had a 'creative differences' dispute. And Tarquin said that he and Malack used to adventure together...What if they did while working under Xykon?

[Kish]

What do you make the chances of Xykon's former henchmen having survived leaving his service?

I would say "negligible."

[Zevox]

Indeed, having "creative disagreements" with Xykon does not sound healthy. At all.

Zevox

[Innis Cabal]

The only pros I can see for it are:
-Tarquin is not a blond, as per #725 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html)
-Nale is a sorcerer

Your aware his hair is gray because he's old. Not because he's not blonde.


C'mon, do you think, that the guy with his charisma would never get a laid? I doubt.

And as for evidence... well... um... How to say it... I think I've left it in my other jacket.

Xykon has insanely high charisma. He casts 9th level spells so it's at least a 19

[Maximum Zersk]

Congratulations hamishspence!

You Win Biology Forever!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailBiologyForever

Er, wrong trope, dude.


How many exactly? Have you counted them?

Well, let's see here. 3 sexes, 2 human body types, 3 humanoid races, 3 skin colours, 4 hair colours, and about 3 male hairtypes commonly shown.

Approximately 432. That's an estimate, mind you, there's most likely more.

[Watcher]

Your aware his hair is gray because he's old. Not because he's not blonde.
I think what Gift Jeraff meant was that in panel 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html), there's a flashback to Tarquin with starting-to-gray hair, but it shows he used to have brown hair. :smallsmile:

[archon_huskie]

Er, wrong trope, dude.


Well there isn't one for winning biology unfortunately.

[Maximum Zersk]

Well there isn't one for winning biology unfortunately.

True. How about Made of Win (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadeOfWin)?

[Nimrod's Son]

How about not linking to TVTropes in the first place?

I mean, I can just about understand linking there if it's relevant to the discussion (although it usually results in tedious replies like "Why did you have to link there? I'VE BEEN TRAPPED THERE FOR TWO HOURS THANKS TO YOU!!!111"), but that post pretty much amounted to, "hamishspence said something about biology. Here's a page on TVTropes that mentions the word 'biology'." :smallsigh:

[archon_huskie]

True. How about Made of Win (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadeOfWin)?

Doesn't fit quite as well. Blonde hair will not die out as a result of breeding nor will redheads and black hair as a dominate gene is irrelevant.

But if Xykon's relationship to Elan is only by way of a distant sorcerer/bard blood line then hair color would not matter nor would any physical resemblance. (both are supposed to get their magic powers by way of being related to dragons in other DnD settings. Admittedly that has not been confirmed by Rich in the OotS verse so this too may be irrelevant.)

The hair-gene argument is only of interest if we persue that Elan is related to Xykon in a more recent family tie.