Improved energy drain

[Otodetu]

Improved energy drain
This feats reads: Whenever you bestow a negative level upon a creature, you gain a +1 bonus on skill checks, ability checks and attacks rolls, and saving throws for 1 hour.

After looking through my old files today I suddenly remembered stuff.
Had a player (a anti-optimized wight fighter) some 5 years ago that had this feat with stacking and all, not that he abused it much, he did not use his drain more than he had too for rp reasons.

This is a unnamed bonus, so by raw it stacks if I am correct? (not that any sane dm should allow unlimited bonuses no matter how badly written.)

Now at this later date I really want to hear what the raw on this one is.

[Keld Denar]

:smallwink:Well, you could say that each bonus is from the same source (the feat) or from different sources (each separate energy drain attack). The second interpretation is the reason undead gain temp HP that stack and can gain a fair amount of temp HP if they are lucky. It is an unnamed bonus afterall.

[Thrawn183]

I would make it so that you gain bonii equal to the maximum negative levels given to any creature in the last hour. That way an energy drain gives you a lot of bonii, but just putting one negative level on a whole bunch of people only gives you a +1.

Otherwise it would be way too good. You could just use fell drain magic missiles to get absurd bonii.

[Galsiah]

I would say that each time he bestows negative levels, not each level, he gains the bonus. The feat says whenever, not for each, and since all the levels would be taken away at once per drain, it should be each time he bestows negative levels, not per level. As to the stacking of them, I'd say they stack, though it could be argued either way.

[Malbordeus]

temporary hp doesnt stack. the untyped bonusses however do. its awsome fun with a Dread necromancer.

[Keld Denar]

Temp HP from different sources do stack though.

[Claudius Maximus]

I'd say it doesn't stack by RAW, so you can't go over +1. Bestowing more negative levels will just reset the duration.

Also, bonii? Really?

[Otodetu]

Grand... So the raw is that the unnamed bonuses DO stack, and if going into the whole temporary hit-point issue then I can direct to the dream vestige from libris mortis to make it more interesting. (energy drain temp hp does not stack in my games atm.)

"Each touch deals 1d4 points of intelligence drain. When a dream vestige drains a victims intelligence, it gains 5 temporary hit points, no matter how many points it drains. Temporary hit points gained in this way last for up to 1 hour. Should a dream vestige ever acquire a number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points, it self spawns (see below)."

This statement does in no way state that temporary hit points stack, but it does imply that temporary hit points gained from the attacks of undead creatures should stack, if not the self spawn ability will make little sense as the creature can never self spawn unless it for example is a psion manifesting vigor and then stacking that with aid and other sources of temp hp.

[Claudius Maximus]

Grand... So the raw is that the unnamed bonuses DO stack

But the same bonus from the same source won't stack. I'd argue that the bonuses from two drains are the same bonus from the same source (i.e. the feat).

[Keld Denar]

But the same bonus from the same source won't stack. I'd argue that the bonuses from two drains are the same bonus from the same source (i.e. the feat).

So, are you saying that the temp HP from level drain don't stack? Cause its either one or the other.

[Malbordeus]

ah, i see where I was going wrong.

temporary hp from multiple castings of the same spell dont stack. but energy drain isnt a spell, so it will stack up with each hit as the hp are an untyped bonus.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

So, are you saying that the temp HP from level drain don't stack? Cause its either one or the other.
No, they don’t stack, as they are from the same soure—the creature’s energy drain ability.

If a creature bestows two negative levels, it gains 10 temporary hp. If it takes 7 damage, leaving it with 3 temporary hp and then bestows another two negative levels, it gains 10 temporary hp that replaces the current 3 temporary hp.


temporary hp from multiple castings of the same spell dont stack. but energy drain isnt a spell, so it will stack up with each hit as the hp are an untyped bonus.
Same source not stacking applies to all special effects, not just spells.

[Keld Denar]

See the Dream Vestige example above. Either temp HP from different touches stack (while its the same ability, the energy drain, its different applications of it), or the Dream Vestige's spawn ability is...worthless.

Each touch must be treated as a seperate source then, and thus stack with other touches.