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Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 08:29 PM
Okay Playgrounders,

My group started a new game and we have a crazy party... let me give you a roster (two characters per person):

Gold Dragon
Angel (one of middle ones)

Tinker Gnome with a Flying APC and Gun user
Heavy Metal Bard

An Aes Sedai and her Monk Warder (Wheel of Time books)

And me, a Lantern Archon who is a healing machine Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor who has taken Vows of Peace, Poverty and Nonviolence....

Pretty crazy group, but we dont have much in the way of a party tank. And this is why I come to the Playgound... Since we are already going overboard (and can use monsters as RHD=Character Levels), I want a tank who can single handedly protect the party from harm by taking all harm on himself. Something crazy like a huge dude(or beast) in extreem mountain plate? We are all lvl 10 and remember 1 RHD = 1 Normal Character Level. For example, my character is a 1 RHD Archon with 9 character levels, Regardless of the fact that the 1 RHD gives me Greater Telleport at will :smalltongue:. Build your mammoth tanks, and show me why I love my fellow Playgrounders!

Greenish
2010-11-06, 08:33 PM
So you're saying that you are allowed just to ignore LA?

Well, well, well. How about a black ettercap? :smallcool:

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 08:39 PM
No no LA=RHD=Normal Levels. Race with RHD and LA (lycanthrope) is treated as normal. Races/Creatures not normally playable (Lantern Archon) are where it comes in handy. If you find a low RHD creature with awesome at wills... BOOYA! Otherwise its normal rules.

Oh and this is a Good party (incase you couldnt tell) so I will need a Good Race/Creature or a really good reason to play anything else... Maybe the Sanctified template?

Greenish
2010-11-06, 08:44 PM
Ach so. You get to treat "LA: -" as "LA +0"?

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 08:48 PM
That is correct sir!

Galdor
2010-11-06, 08:52 PM
A tried and true method: Half green dragon troll red dragon disciple.
The only energy types he's vulnerable to, he is now immune to, however, I can't remember what level this requires, so you might not be high enough level to build one.

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 08:54 PM
Plus the whole Evil Half-Evil Evil... Remember that three of the characters are LG Outsiders :smallcool:

Ravens_cry
2010-11-06, 08:57 PM
This is the part I get scared. It's like when a video game suddenly gives you a lot of goodies in an enclosed space with few exits. Your genre senses starts tingling.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-06, 08:58 PM
Go Frenzied Berseker. You can pretty much take infinity damage with the class ability and stay alive. Though Bear Warrior may also be nice with the huge bonus to con and size increase when raging.

SurlySeraph
2010-11-06, 09:11 PM
If Dragon Magazine is allowed, you can take the Troll-Blooded feat for Regeneration 1 at 1st level. Take levels in the divine caster class of your choice until you have +4 BAB; Cleric 6 works. Then go into Bone Knight (Five Nations). Bone Knight becomes immune to nonlethal damage at 4th level, so nothing but fire and acid can do actual damage to your nice Cleric 6/ Bone Knight 4. Rings or spells of energy resistance, or casting Energy Immunity work; taking Martial Study (any Desert Wind maneuver) and Martial Stance (Flame's Blessing) can give you a lot of fire resistance.
Have him take the Constant Guardian and Dutiful Guardian feats so that he can block attacks directed at whichever member of the party he's next to, and have him cast Shield Other on the rest of the party each day so half of all damage they take goes to him.

A weirder build would be a Wizard who's damn near impossible to hit. Use the Wizard variant that gains Fighter bonus feats, and go Wizard 6/ Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 4. For your feats, take Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Spring Attack. Yes, there's a reason for this. For your skills, you want 12 ranks in Tumble and 12 ranks in Truespeak. No, seriously. There's a reason.
The reason is that this grants you the Word Given Form martial art, which means you have total concealment (a 50% miss chance) against the target of your Dodge feat. Swiftblade grants you a 40% miss chance, which "does not stack with blink or similar spell effects." But the Word Given Form miss chance isn't a spell effect, so it stacks.
It can get better. Instead of Dodge, take {Scrubbed link: Expeditious Dodge}. Now as long as you run around, the Word Given Form miss chance affects everyone attacking you, not just one guy. Oh, and in addition to being really hard to hit you're a ninja-wizard.

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 09:12 PM
This is the part I get scared. It's like when a video game suddenly gives you a lot of goodies in an enclosed space with few exits. Your genre senses starts tingling.

I like that idea... Now how would I heal back that damage before the Frenzie ends? I could use my heal bot Lantern Archon to try and keep him alive and give him a crazy CON I guess. Now what if I just put him in super heavy uberplate? Could I get a low "lvl" race/creature that has telleport at will to help him actually move? What about another Lantern Archon who is a Frenzied Berserker? :smallbiggrin:

Any other ideas for a race/creature who could be a awesome tank? Any ideas for armor/equipment or battle plans?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-06, 09:15 PM
Maybe a Boneclaw (MM3) with the feat Large and In Charge (Draconomicon), but you wouldn't be able to get any class levels since its already at 10 HD. Plus Undead HD get poor BAB and saves, and you'd have to spend feats on armor proficiency unless someone was casting (Greater) Luminous Armor on you every day.

A Steel Dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040328a) could be a powerful choice, it gets the best spellcasting of all the dragons and huge SR vs lower level spells.

A Cloaked Ape (MM2) gets some nice defensive abilities, and you could go into Psychic Warrior and get feats like (Greater) Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS), Deflective Armor (RoS), Shield Specialization/Ward (PH2), and Focused Shield (RoS), and be sure to get Practiced Manifester (CP). You'd have to come up with a way to get opponents to attack you, a good start would be augmented Expansion to grow to Huge size with Combat Reflexes, but you'd need to have a high Dex score despite wearing heavy armor. They get Improved Grab, so Expansion + Grapple would be amazing versus one powerful opponent. This would probably be one of your strongest defensive options.

An Awakened animal, such as a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3) would be a strong choice. Make sure its a Magebred (ECS) version for some amazing bonuses. Say the Awaken spell was cast with Maximize Spell, so you'll get 18 Int and +3 Cha instead of 3d6 Int and +1d3 Cha. You can get (Improved) Rapidstrike (Draconomicon) to get more attacks with your claws. I'd probably take either Swordsage or Warblade and focus on Tiger Claw maneuvers. Get feats like Ability Focus: Poison (MM) and Virulent Poison (SS), and get Leadership for a small size cohort with Mounted Combat and max ranks in Ride. Make him a Dragonfire Adept with Entangling Exhalation, he can make the source of his breath attack start at the outer edge of your square when he's riding you. He can have a tower shield and use it to give both of you total cover from one direction. The Dex penalty from Entangling Exhalation plus your Dex damage poison will probably disable more opponents than just dealing damage to them.

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 09:18 PM
If Dragon Magazine is allowed, you can take the Troll-Blooded feat for Regeneration 1 at 1st level. Take levels in the divine caster class of your choice until you have +4 BAB; Cleric 6 works. Then go into Bone Knight (Five Nations). Bone Knight becomes immune to nonlethal damage at 4th level, so nothing but fire and acid can do actual damage to your nice Cleric 6/ Bone Knight 4. Rings or spells of energy resistance, or casting Energy Immunity work; taking Martial Study (any Desert Wind maneuver) and Martial Stance (Flame's Blessing) can give you a lot of fire resistance.

A weirder build would be a Wizard who's damn near impossible to hit. Use the Wizard variant that gains Fighter bonus feats, and go Wizard 6/ Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 4. For your feats, take Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Spring Attack. Yes, there's a reason for this. For your skills, you want 12 ranks in Tumble and 12 ranks in Truespeak. No, seriously. There's a reason.
The reason is that this grants you the Word Given Form martial art, which means you have total concealment (a 50% miss chance) against the target of your Dodge feat. Swiftblade grants you a 40% miss chance, which "does not stack with blink or similar spell effects." But the Word Given Form miss chance isn't a spell effect, so it stacks.
It can get better. Instead of Dodge, take Expeditious Dodge (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Expeditious_Dodge). Now as long as you run around, the Word Given Form miss chance affects everyone attacking you, not just one guy. Oh, and in addition to being really hard to hit you're a ninja-wizard.

Those are nice ideas as well Seraph! I dont think Boneknight will work though :smallfrown:

SurlySeraph
2010-11-06, 09:23 PM
If Bone Knight is out, you can a) be Warforged, and go into Warforged Juggernaut, which becomes immune to nonlethal damage at 2nd level, or b) be a paladin, and carry around wands of Favor of the Martyr, which gives immunity to nonlethal damage and a few other benefits for minutes/level.

Worlok
2010-11-06, 09:23 PM
Well, an actual "mammoth tank" for a good-aligned party could be created using the Woolly Mammoth from Frostburn (or as an alternative, an advanced SRD-type elephant), the Anthropomorphic template (perhaps among others - doesn't that template make you a Monstrous Humanoid? Because I'm thinking "Feral Elephant Barbarian") from Savage Species and the standard-issue Celestial Creature template (for the "good-aligned" vibe), even though that might exceed the 10th-level mark... :smallbiggrin:

Perhaps something like a (half-)celestial minotaur. High RHD, even if paired with a bit of an LA, useful immunities/DRs and (wings+)powerful charge...

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 09:41 PM
Funny thought, what about a Living Spell? What spell would you guys choose? Doesnt have to be a tank build, could help with healing or debuff...

Urpriest
2010-11-06, 10:00 PM
So you're saying that you are allowed just to ignore LA?

Well, well, well. How about a black ettercap? :smallcool:

I think you mean ethergaunt.

Unfortunately likely too evil for this guy.

I suggest a Sunfly Swarm. Hard to damage, and with some Con focus and feats can reliably nauseate opponents, keeping them locked down for your guys to kill.

The Shadowmind
2010-11-06, 10:09 PM
I haven't seen anything about size limits, so how about a Behir/Barbarian 1?
Immune to trips and electricity, large bonuses to strength/con and only penalty to int. Has a breath weapon as well as swallowing people.

Abaddon87
2010-11-06, 11:13 PM
What is the heaviest possible armor anyone could wear? Whats the heaviest shield in the game? Im thinking about just a huge guy in massive armor, using a huge tower shield and Dungeoncrashering people to paste...

Skaven
2010-11-07, 12:02 AM
Pretty crazy group, but we dont have much in the way of a party tank.



Gold Dragon

Ummm... ;)

Go gish tank. Buff yourself with armors and other spells. Mage Armor (/ greater) Shield, displacement, mirror image etc. That + mithril armors + dragon high AC...


Spells

A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated in its variety description, gaining bonus spells for a high Charisma score. Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domain lists as arcane spells.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-07, 12:21 AM
What is the heaviest possible armor anyone could wear? Whats the heaviest shield in the game? Im thinking about just a huge guy in massive armor, using a huge tower shield and Dungeoncrashering people to paste...

Mechanus Gear in Planar Handbook is the toughest armor I think, and either a Tower Shield (-2 to attacks) or an Extreme Shield (RoS). Mechanus Gear is about the same as Mountain Plate in RoS, but it's a fraction of the weight/cost and you can run in it, though the armor check penalty is one point higher. If you have enough feats to throw at it and you're a psionic character, get Shield Specialization (PH2), Shield Ward (PH2), Focused Shield (RoS), (Greater) Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS), and Deflective Armor (RoS).

Take Leadership and get a Gauth Beholder for your cohort! It can spam its Exhaustion, Sleep, and Paralysis rays every round to put some serious debuffs/disables out there, plus there's it's stunning gaze attack. It can Dispel Magic at will, and its damage rays aren't bad either. Give it levels in Warlock, its eye rays are a free action so it can spam Sickening Blast or Frightful Blast every round to debuff their saves.

Edit: If you're going to wear heavy armor, make a Dwarf of some sort and take two levels of Deepwarden (RoS) to get your Con bonus to AC in place of your Dex bonus, which technically isn't limited by the max dex of your armor. It requires Endurance, so you may as well take Steadfast Determination in PH2 to get your Con bonus to Will saves as well. Maybe go Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Deepwarden 2/ something.... You won't benefit from the combat style in heavy armor, so that doesn't really matter.

Another alternative to heavy armor would be the spell Greater Luminous Armor in BoED, which grants a +8 armor bonus, no max Dex, you'll benefit from unarmored bonuses like Monk('s Belt) AC, and it's so bright opponents will take a -4 penalty to hit you. Get a Rod of Bodily Restoration from MIC to negate the Str damage for casting it, with an hour/level duration it should only take one to have it up all day. With that and (Anyspell for DMM: Persistent) Shield and casting Magic Vestment on both you'll end up with a higher AC than wearing armor.

Draconi Redfir
2010-11-07, 12:30 AM
i suggest a Troll.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-07, 01:01 AM
After a bit more looking, I'd say your best choice for stats would be an Awakened (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) creature. Say the Awaken spell was cast with Maximize Spell so your 3d6 mental stats will be automatic 18s, or if you can get away with it that it was Intensified (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#intensifySpell) so you'll get 36's. An Awakened Tree gets Hardness 5, which works against all damage types and can only be overcome by adamantine weapons, plus all the normal plant immunities. If its Large size it would have 4 HD, and can take feats with size prerequisites such as Knock Back (RoS), Awesome Blow (MM), and Large and In Charge (Draconomicon). A plant never has to sleep, so you'd never have to take your armor off.

For the absolute strongest no-more-than-10-HD, no-listed-LA race, I'd have to say a Ghaele Eladrin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm) is your best choice. It casts spells as a 14th level Cleric and has a huge list of at-will spell-like abilities including Cure Light Wounds, Greater Invisibility, and Hold Monster. It gets a huge list of immunities and resistances, awesome DR, a globe of light form that can fly extremely fast with perfect maneuverability, and its gaze kills evil creatures. You can cast Greater Luminous Armor + Magic Vestment every day and wear a Monk's Belt and with the +14 natural you'll have a higher AC than anything with armor and a shield. Take Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) at your next level and you'll get three more domains (or get Knowledge Devotion) and be able to use Divine feats like DMM: Persist. I'd recommend you pick a deity who can grant one or more of the Spell, Travel, Time, and/or Celerity domains. Opponents will focus on this character because he'll be the greatest threat, and he'll be able to tank their attacks better than anyone else.

Abaddon87
2010-11-07, 10:41 AM
WOW that Ghaele is amazing! I think to keep up with the whole "tries to be as nonleathal as possible" feel of this group I'll use that blindfold item from MIC and a quarterstaff that does nonleathal damage. I could walk around disguised as a beggar and when things get to hot for the party... the blindfold comes off and its play time!

Thrawn183
2010-11-07, 10:46 AM
I would go with a Dragonborn Gnome. Permanency a Reduce Person on him so he's tiny. Stick him in some kind of fullplate. Pump his Con to absurd levels. He'll have more HP than anyone in the party, more AC than anyone in the party and be able to use Slow Breath for all your anti-melee needs.

Stallion
2010-11-07, 01:16 PM
I would go with a frenzied berzerker/runescarred berzerker combo. Enough of frenzied to get Deathless Frenzy and Improved Power Attack and enough Runescarred Berzerker to start carving heals on your skin that you can cast while raging/frenzied. Of course, then you have to ditch some of your exotic creatures and just be a Rashemi, but I like the idea of being able to soak up an infinite amount of damage while raging and then being able to heal it off before rage wears off. Runescarred will give you some nice offensive boost spells too.... Righteous Might and Div Power stick out the most in my mind. You get Air Walk, too, so you can chase down some annoying flying buggers.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-07, 06:50 PM
If Dragon Magazine is allowed, you can take the Troll-Blooded feat for Regeneration 1 at 1st level.
There's a problem with that: Troll Blooded causes you to be fatigued while exposed to sunlight. You can't charge and you incur a -2 penalty to both Strength and Dexterity. You could worship Fharlanghn and use the Boots of the Unending Journey relic to handle this problem. Without 4th level spells you'd also need the True Believer feat.

Urpriest
2010-11-07, 09:26 PM
There's a problem with that: Troll Blooded causes you to be fatigued while exposed to sunlight. You can't charge and you incur a -2 penalty to both Strength and Dexterity. You could worship Fharlanghn and use the Boots of the Unending Journey relic to handle this problem. Without 4th level spells you'd also need the True Believer feat.

A single level of Horizon Walker could also do this, though that may be trickier to slide into such a build.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-07, 09:43 PM
A single level of Horizon Walker could also do this, though that may be trickier to slide into such a build.
Not unless you're going to stick to desert terrain.

Terrain Mastery Benefits
Desert
You resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.

Horizon walkers take their terrain mastery with them wherever they go. They retain their terrain mastery bonuses on skill checks, attack rolls, and damage rolls whether they’re actually in the relevant terrain or not. With desert terrain mastered, the Horizon Walker will take their desert bonuses on attack and damage rolls with them everywhere. Unfortunately, immunity to fatigue isn't a skill check, attack roll, or damage roll; the Horizon Walker only has that in the desert.

SurlySeraph
2010-11-07, 10:39 PM
There's a problem with that: Troll Blooded causes you to be fatigued while exposed to sunlight. You can't charge and you incur a -2 penalty to both Strength and Dexterity. You could worship Fharlanghn and use the Boots of the Unending Journey relic to handle this problem. Without 4th level spells you'd also need the True Believer feat.

Which is why I recommended a Bone Knight, because they become immune to fatigue at 8th level.

Hawk7915
2010-11-07, 11:12 PM
Is a Hydra too silly? Do you get to assign ability score points as normal? Because if so, making an intelligent Pyrohydra and assigning Robilar's Gambit to it could get pretty extreme pretty fast. You're huge and have regeneration to boot, too.

You need a good-aligned, tanky character? What about being nice and simple and going for an Avoral (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/avoral.htm) -something tanky 3 (Crusader, Warblade, possibly Knight)? Avorals have DR 10/Silver or Evil, a large swath of immunities, some SLAs, +8 Natural Armor, great ability score bonuses, true sight, and (most importantly) the ability to completely restore their health bar as a standard action. Pick up three levels in an appropriately tanky, high HD class and go to town on people with a typical tank feat/weapon set-up (Spiked Chain tripper or Shock Trooper charger type).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-07, 11:36 PM
There's a regional feat in PGtF called Tireless which makes you immune to effects which would make you Fatigued, and if anything would make you skip straight to Exhausted it makes you Fatigued instead.

I think he already decided on a Ghaele anyway, you can't really beat Cleric 14 spellcasting at 10 Outsider HD plus all its other abilities.

Realms of Chaos
2010-11-08, 01:18 AM
Regarding your Ghaele, be sure to take Goad and/or Standstill as your primary goal was tanking and nothing that a Ghaele really gets (besides spellcasting that allows for shield another) is actual tanking.

Otodetu
2010-11-08, 10:28 AM
Not unless you're going to stick to desert terrain.

With desert terrain mastered, the Horizon Walker will take their desert bonuses on attack and damage rolls with them everywhere. Unfortunately, immunity to fatigue isn't a skill check, attack roll, or damage roll; the Horizon Walker only has that in the desert.

Are you sure that is the way it is supposed to be?
That will make the prestige class less than weak-sauce, rather than just sub-pair.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-08, 12:14 PM
Are you sure that is the way it is supposed to be?
I generally don't dwell on such issues and rather pay attention to what the rules actually say. But it would seem like an awfully big difference in power for desert terrain to provide compared to forest, hills, and marsh ─ except for the difference in portability. If the designers were trying to balance the benefits of mastering the different terrains, making just those bonuses to checks and rolls portable (exactly as the rules state) would do it.