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Welknair
2010-11-06, 08:48 PM
I've been wondering, what does a theurge do at level 17? Standard rules say that you can progress 10-level prestige classes beyond the 10th level, but only if the character is epic level. I see why this would be pertinent for specialty prestige classes, such as the shadowdancer, but it puts hybriders in a tough position. What does the theurge do until he reaches epic? What does he put the four levels in? Two in wizard, two in cleric, further increasing his caster level gap compared to solo-class casters? :smallannoyed:

HunterOfJello
2010-11-06, 08:57 PM
Tome of Battle dip!













~

Just kidding. If I was the DM I would allow the player to continue past 10 for spellcasting increase purposes but with no increase in class features.

As far as RAW goes, you need to find another prestige class or get over the fact that you're already powerful enough to take over the world and get over it.

FMArthur
2010-11-06, 08:59 PM
It is a quandary. There isn't a perfect solution unless you're going Druid on the divine side. Most just finish up with whichever class they liked better. A very reasonable and somewhat common solution is to ask the DM if you can just extend it. Mystic Theurge players can squeeze by into Arcane Hierophant from RotW if they become or start as Bamboo Spirit Folk to gain Trackless Step... If you can convince your DM that it counts as the Trackless Step class feature that AH requires.

Kylarra
2010-11-06, 09:00 PM
I've been wondering, what does a theurge do at level 17? Standard rules say that you can progress 10-level prestige classes beyond the 10th level, but only if the character is epic level. I see why this would be pertinent for specialty prestige classes, such as the shadowdancer, but it puts hybriders in a tough position. What does the theurge do until he reaches epic? What does he put the four levels in? Two in wizard, two in cleric, further increasing his caster level gap compared to solo-class casters? :smallannoyed:Well, epic mystic theurge is pretty crappy so YMMV with that. Best to just advance one of them or be a druid/arcanist from the start to go arcane hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge finish. :smalltongue:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-11-06, 09:12 PM
Uncanny trickster avances class features two levels out of three, so you still loose one CL, but it's an option.

FMArthur
2010-11-06, 09:19 PM
Oh! I forgot some other workarounds. You can also use prestige classes classes that only need 10 levels to finish their spellcasting to enter one or both sides of the dual-progression PrC. Mostly people do this for PrCs that offer a rapid-progression version of some base class's spellcasting.

The Ur-Priest (CD) is the most commonly used example, which provides domainless Cleric casting up to 9th level spells in 10 levels.
Sublime Chords (CAr) are probably the second most common and do the same with Sorceror casting, but require Bardic music and can only start at level 11.
Divine Crusader (CD) gives you one domain's worth of Cleric casting in rapid progression form, but if you combine it with a couple levels of Sovereign Speaker (FoE) to quickly gain more domains for it you can make it a little more worthwhile.
Blighter (CD) also has its own 0-9 progression.
Beholder Mage (LoM) is the most rigged class in all of D&D by a rather wide margin, but I'll list it here because it is a rapid-progression class for arcane casting. Never play one.
There are probably more. There is probably a comprehensive list of them somewhere.

Also, using an Ardent and Practiced Manifestor in combination with an arcane class as a Cerebremancer or a divine class as a Psychic Theurge, you can manifest powers as if your Ardent levels were four higher if you have that many levels in classes that don't progress it. You'll have fewer power points than an actual Ardent four levels higher, though.

Thurbane
2010-11-07, 08:33 PM
Uncanny trickster avances class features two levels out of three, so you still loose one CL, but it's an option.
Legacy Champion is handy for this too: 5 of the first 6 levels give "+1 level of existing class" progression.

Psyren
2010-11-07, 09:01 PM
Also, using an Ardent and Practiced Manifestor in combination with an arcane class as a Cerebremancer or a divine class as a Psychic Theurge, you can manifest powers as if your Ardent levels were four higher if you have that many levels in classes that don't progress it. You'll have fewer power points than an actual Ardent four levels higher, though.

You can also combine Ardent and Ur-Priest into Psychic Theurge, losing just 2 ML instead of 4. (The flavor fits exceptionally well too.)

Ardent 10 (Dominant Ideal)/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 8 - a bit light on class features, but plenty of Wis synergy. Feel free to add two levels of Tashalatora Monk in there and still get dual 9s.