Are there any games like this?

[Gaelbert]

I'm looking for two types of games. I've never seen one like either of them, but it seems like they should exist.

1. A real time strategy game dealing with guerrilla warfare. You would have a small amount of units and be up against a much larger entrenched force. I don't like having to deal with making more units, so unit building would be limited and the focus would be on preserving your own forces. The size of the area of play should be large, giving a large amount of freedom of movement and options. It could be on a strategic, operational, or tactical level. Bonus for logistical issues, such as creating bases or interactions with local populations.
2. Another strategy game, this time on a strategic level. I'd like a game that where you command large amounts of troops. Once again, not a whole lot of dealing with building more units but reinforces could exist if they're at a realistic level. It could be a historical simulator, set in World War II were you take over Patton or a like role.

I'd prefer either of those to be set in the last 150 years or so, and be on PC, DS, or Wii.

Pretty much any of those requirements are flexible, except for the restrictions on game station.
Any of you know a game that fits any of those requirements?

[SurlySeraph]

1. Jagged Alliance, which is old but has a great reputation, or the Commandos series, which has a reputation for being ludicrously difficult. EDIT: Wait, those are turn-based, never mind. Uh... not sure.
2. There are many. I hear Company of Heroes is good.

[Ailurus]

The single-player campaign for Dawn of War II fits your first category fairly well, except for the time frame (as its in the Warhammer 40k universe, not historical). Most of it is on the tactical level (just controlling the four squads of guys you have per mission) but there's a small amount of higher strategy in it (leveling up and equipping your squads, and deciding which missions to do and which to skip, and who to bring along on each mission).

The one area it doesn't mesh with your requirements is that your squad leaders can't die (unless your whole team gets wiped out). Instead of dying, the fall unconscious until the rest of your team can rescue him, and if you drop the squad back to friendly territory they'll all slowly reinforce back to full strength.

[Ascension]

This really falls in between those two options, as the troops under your command aren't really a guerrilla force or a large army, but I too dislike "building" units in RTS games, and one of my favorite RTSes that doesn't require it is Desert Rats vs. Afrika Korps, a WWII tactical RTS for the PC. It's actually part of a series of similar WWII-based tactical RTSes by the same company, apparently, and I seem to have purchased another in the series, Moscow to Berlin: Red Siege, but I've not actually installed the later game, so I can't vouch for its quality.

I, ah, will admit that my PC is a good bit behind the times, so if you're looking for a pretty game you should probably disregard my suggestions.

[TSA]

Another option that doesn't fully match your requirements but is worth checking out is the series Soldiers: Heroes of WWII, Faces of War and Men of War. All take place during WWII and are on the PC.

They're real time, with the option of slowing down for tricky parts and speeding up for boring ones. The first game usually plays with 2-6 men per mission, the latter ones give you control over more soldiers.

The feel is pretty realistic. First aid kits heal anything, and there's regenerating health at easier difficulities, but no one on the battlefield can take more than a few hits. Snipers and machine guns are deadly on both sides. Both a Mauser and a Garand are loaded with the same generic "rifle ammo", but there are lots of modelled weapons, from SMGs to anti-tank rifles and their ammon is finite. There are no human mechas, everything has a weight and a lightly equipped soldier is often more useful than one hauling 30+kg of stuff. All heavy weapons and vehicles can be manned and used, as long as they have ammo and/or gas, and almost everything can be destroyed, if you have a big enough gun. Often you do. :smallbiggrin:

Then there's a neat feature called "direct control", which let's you take, well, direct control of one man, manned weapon or vehicle and turns the game into a fun 3D shooter. Absolutely awesome when combined with a Tiger, Panther or T-34. Nothing like taking on the world with a 88mm cannon. :smallbiggrin: Tanks are also very well modelled, with pronounced differences in manouverability between the lighter and heavier ones, realistic armor and weak points.

Men of War is the newest, prettiest and best in the series, although I think that they're all worth playing.

[SparkMandriller]

1. Jagged Alliance, which is old but has a great reputation, or the Commandos series, which has a reputation for being ludicrously difficult. EDIT: Wait, those are turn-based, never mind. Uh... not sure.

Commandos is real time.

I'd say play JA2, 'cause it seems to be everything you want, but it's turn based.
But you should play it anyway, it's really good.

[Sammich]

A game I've played ages ago that is similar to Commandos is Desperados: Wanted Dead or Alive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperados:_Wanted_Dead_or_Alive). I've never played the former game, but if I could beat Desperados as a fairly young kid with only a little help (and lots of trying) then it's probably much easier than Commandos.

[Prime32]

Commandos is real time.

I'd say play JA2, 'cause it seems to be everything you want, but it's turn based.
But you should play it anyway, it's really good.Apart from being mostly turn-based, the Tactical RPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_RPG) genre seems to fit what you're looking for. In Fire Emblem in particular, you have a small number of characters with well-defined personalities (as long as you're not playing Shadow Dragon :smalltongue:), and deaths are permanent.

[Seonor]

I'm looking for two types of games. I've never seen one like either of them, but it seems like they should exist.

1. A real time strategy game dealing with guerrilla warfare. You would have a small amount of units and be up against a much larger entrenched force. I don't like having to deal with making more units, so unit building would be limited and the focus would be on preserving your own forces. The size of the area of play should be large, giving a large amount of freedom of movement and options. It could be on a strategic, operational, or tactical level. Bonus for logistical issues, such as creating bases or interactions with local populations.
2. Another strategy game, this time on a strategic level. I'd like a game that where you command large amounts of troops. Once again, not a whole lot of dealing with building more units but reinforces could exist if they're at a realistic level. It could be a historical simulator, set in World War II were you take over Patton or a like role.

I'd prefer either of those to be set in the last 150 years or so, and be on PC, DS, or Wii.

Pretty much any of those requirements are flexible, except for the restrictions on game station.
Any of you know a game that fits any of those requirements?


Have you heard of the first Ground Control (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GroundControl)? No Unit building whatsover, your enemies have always a huge numerical advantage, you need to use the terrain to survive. The only drawback is thet is set in the future, but the units are mostly standart. And it is free, since it was released to promote the second game.

Also the Sudden Strike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_Strike) series seems to fit your description. I only ever played the second, but it was quite fun. You start with a set amount of troops at the start of each battle and have to work with that. Sometimes you get reinforced after you complete an objective, but you still have to be carefull with your units. Set in WW2.


Mech Commander 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MechCommander_2) is also not bad. Limited troops (mechs) which you can equip with different weapons.

Total War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_War_%28series%29) is mostla turn based, but the actual battles are real time and in most games you could play the battles without the turn based part, I think.

Praetorians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorians_%28video_game%29) is also something that could interest you.

Other fun games: Blitzkrieg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg_%28computer_game%29), Codename Panzers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codename:_Panzers), Silent Storm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Storm) (with the mod that removes the scifi elements)


If you look for a genre to describe this type of game, I would go with Real Time Tactics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_tactics) (RTT)

[Gaelbert]

Thank you very much for all the replies.
Ground Control looks interesting, and I see they released it for free, but unfortunately whenever I try to download it the link doesn't work.
I may very well pick Jagged Alliance up, despite the turn basedness, it seems to be very close to what I was looking for.
Desert Rats vs. Afrika Korps is another one that I'm considering.
I've played a few Fire Emblems and enjoyed them, but that's not exactly what I'm looking for right now.
Also, I've been meaning to get one of the Total War games for a while. They've always captured my imagination.

The timeline thing isn't really a constraint. It could be modern, sci-fi, whatever as long as it's good.

[warty goblin]

For the second time in as many days I'm going to recommend 7.62 High Calibre. Think Jagged Alliance 2 in terms of plot et cetera, but in real time with pause. It's not fake real time with pause, aka continuous turns, but really real time that automatically pauses every time you see a new enemy or a bunch of other stuff.

This allows a massive degree of detail in its firefights, far more than a turn based game could include and not be ridiculously tedious and unapproachably complex. For instance there's no abstraction of initiative and reaction time, you act first if your character spots the enemy first and acts faster, that's it.

The interface is somewhat hellishly complex, the story is dull, but damn the gunfights are superb.

[houlio]

Fallout Tactics is a tactical, real-time fighty game, which might fit your first desire depending on your tastes.

[Oregano]

Not exactly what you're looking for but I think you might enjoy Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, Lost Magic and Heroes of Mana... they're a different kind of RTS. All three are on the DS.

[Airk]

A friend of mine worked on Mosby's Confederacy (http://www.tiltedmill.com/mosbys_confederacy/), which, while I have, embarassingly, not played it, it seems like it fits right into item #1.

[GolemsVoice]

Codename Panzers is very good, and it had strong community support back when I played it, adding everything from more realistic skins to completely new armies.

All tanks need ammo, which can be restocked at depots or from trucks, and might even need fuel, I'm not sure. Powerful tanks are powerful, and can often hold off a whole bunch of smaller tanks. Lost vehicles can't be replaced during missions, but vehicles can be slowly repaired.

It also features a German campaign, which I find nice and refreshing, and actual characters on all side, something which many games set in WW II lack.

It also features a ton of vehicles, not only the commonly known ones. Many of those are often of limited use, though, much as they were in the actual war.

[Triaxx]

Second Fallout Tactics, suggest Battalion Wars, though it might be a little bigger in scope than you want. Also second Company of Heroes. Only played a bit, but it seems awesome.

Total Annihilation is out of your date range, and tends to be larger in scope, but can easily have missions done with less than 20 units for a good strategist. Some unit/base building involved, but with the Commander leading, very little can stop a good strategist.

@Warty: Where does one find 7.62 High Calibre? There's no mention on Wikipedia, Amazon has never heard of it... My crappy connection makes download not particularly viable, but I'm going to check Steam.

[Cheesegear]

Myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_(series)). One of the first games Bungie made before they were bought by Microsoft.

A particular quote that is relevant to the OP.

"Unit formations are tactically important in Myth, since the game simulates a real battlefield accurately enough for maneuvers such as flanking and encirclement to be effective. When placed together in formation, units can provide an effective defensive front, block an enemy force’s escape route, or exploit bad positioning of an enemy force by surrounding it. Since healing is a rare ability, units do not regenerate health, and there is no way to construct new units, hit and run skirmishes are effective and unit conservation is essential. In light of this, each point of damage can be significant."

The learning curve is quite steep. Like it says, when you lose a unit, it's gone. You don't get it back in the next mission. Its quite difficult.

Similarly, Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat, and Dark Omen have similar mechanics. But are more suited to the second type of game you're looking for where you control a lot more troops. Alternatively, you could play 'just' the Battle portions of any of the Total War series.

[warty goblin]

Second Fallout Tactics, suggest Battalion Wars, though it might be a little bigger in scope than you want. Also second Company of Heroes. Only played a bit, but it seems awesome.

Company of Heroes is indeed awesome, probably the zenith of the more or less traditional style RTS. Get at least the first expansion (Opposing Fronts) which adds two of the most creative armies I've ever fielded in such a game.

I'll even suggest playing at least some of the first game's campaign, at least through the Defense of Carrantan mission. The constraints are logical, the pacing superb, the entire thing utterly, poundingly, intense.

That actually goes for the entire game. It's the only strategy title I've ever played with such good voicework and animations that I actually feel sorry for all the little soldiers. I suspect this is why, even though they are very useful, I essentially never use flamethrowers.


@Warty: Where does one find 7.62 High Calibre? There's no mention on Wikipedia, Amazon has never heard of it... My crappy connection makes download not particularly viable, but I'm going to check Steam.

As far as I know, the English version is only available from GamersGate (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-762/762-high-calibre).

It's really only worth getting if you are seriously into simulationesque takes on small unit tactics and vaguely fetishistic gun stuff. The story's crap, there's a lot of dull bits, and the difficulty will eat you alive - as I said elsewhere I had to replay the very first battle something like half a dozen times before I could beat it. And the first time I did manage to kill all my enemies, I promptly died of blood loss because I had taken a hit and didn't have any healing items.

But if you like simulationesque takes on small unit tactics and vaguely fetishistic gun stuff it's pretty fantastic; how many other games actually model a shotgun with a stock and longer barrel being more accurate and damaging but slightly slower to handle than a shorter, stockless one?

Anyway, if you get it, let me know. I've learned some tricks for at least the early game that should make your starting much easier than mine.

[Eldan]

I second Ground Control, I love that game when I had it.

To expand a little: it's not quite guerilla warfare, actually. For ever mission, you are given a choice of several units. Tanks, artillery, different kinds of infantry, later airplanes. They all have several kinds of equipment and stats that can be changed around. Then you are sent to a map via a landing vehicle and have to complete a mission, usually taking or defending some kind of base. In most cases, you are hopelessly outnumbered by the enemy, who has fortified positions and can tear you to shreds if he finds you. Luckily, it has an interesting terrain system with cover and visibility based on whether you stand in the shadow or not.
Artillery has a tendency to make the game easy, though: it fires over a distance of several screens and doesn't have to see it's targets or even have a line of fire: you just fire shells in a high arc at wherever you are expecting the enemy to be and come back later.

[Douglas]

The learning curve is quite steep. Like it says, when you lose a unit, it's gone. You don't get it back in the next mission. Its quite difficult.
IIRC, unit counts at the beginning of each mission are fixed - if you lose an archer one mission and the next mission has the same size archer squad, you'll have a new archer to replace the dead one. Units do improve with experience, however, and the new archer will be a newbie with a substantially lower chance of hitting with his shots than a hardened veteran survivor of 10 missions.

Myth is a great game, though, and it's the first thing I thought of when I read the OP.

Oh, and at least for ranged weapons hitting is determined by a physics engine, not an abstract attack roll type mechanic. The game calculates the appropriate perfect angle to launch a projectile to hit a given target (adjusted to lead for current movement, I think), adds a random error to account for the attacker's skill (experienced units tend to have smaller random adjustments here), and from there it's up to the physics engine. The projectile will damage whatever it happens to hit first. If that happens to be an ally, then you've got friendly fire. If there's a whole horde of enemies in the area, a miss could easily hit an enemy beside the intended target. If someone's shooting at you, you can intentionally change direction while the enemy projectile is in flight to dodge it - and whether you succeed or not is determined by whether the unchanged course of the projectile still intersects your unit at the time it arrives. I killed a fair number of enemy spear-throwers by microing a dwarf to dodge the spears while getting into range to toss some primitive explosives.

[Vorpalbob]

Blitzkrieg was a favourite of mine for quite a while. I love RTT games, now that I know what they're called. :smalltongue:

Anyway, in Blitzkrieg you start most missions with all the troops you are going to have. Occasionally you will receive reinforcements, and in some missions you can call for paratroops. As well, you have a core of six units, three tanks and three artillery pieces, who are elite and can gain ranks (experience levels) and can become quite powerful. You can choose what tank/gun each unit has, and complete optional missions for more choices.

There are three campaigns, Allies, Russians and Germans, each of which has some randomized missions. This, along with the countless ways to complete missions, gives the game a good replay value.

One problem? The game is REALLY EASY on anything other than the highest difficulty levels. I have beaten each campaign using only the core tanks and trucks to resupply and repair them.

All in all, a good game that I would recommend to any fans of the genre, as well as those who are interested in trying an RTT out.

[Triaxx]

One of the reasons I like Fallout Tactics so much is that it's never too easy.

[Jonzac]

Battlefront's Combat Mission series is a hyper realistic tactical view of WWII battles. Three different games with CM:Berlin to Barbarossa for the Eastern Front and CM:Afrika Korp for the Med

http://www.battlefront.com

They also have a real time current events simulator in CM:Shock Force in a fictional assault into Syria...with US, Brit, Marine and soon NATO forces...uses a 1:1 troop ratio display and either WEGO or Real Time.

In a few months they will be selling CM:Normandy...where the 1:1 ratio and real time with better graphics will be out (beta testing that one).

BEST WWII GAMES EVER!!!

[Om]

2. Another strategy game, this time on a strategic level. I'd like a game that where you command large amounts of troops. Once again, not a whole lot of dealing with building more units but reinforces could exist if they're at a realistic level. It could be a historical simulator, set in World War II were you take over Patton or a like roleThat's bringing you almost to the operational level where you find games like Panzer General or, the classic, Operational Art of War. Not for the casual gamer

[MickJay]

I second the Myth series (especially the first two games, third wasn't as good for me). It's a fantasy setting, but apart from that, I'd say it's exactly what you're looking for. In most cases you'll be severely outnumbered, and will have to rely on skirmishing, using terrain to your advantage and the arrangement of troops you're given (from time to time you might get some reinforcements, but these missions are relatively rare).

[Vorpalbob]

I third the Myth series. I just picked up a copy of Myth II: Soulblighter a few days ago, and it has been AWESOME. My noob friends are making fun of me for playing a pre-2000 game, but they have no idea.

Also, the WWII Combat Mission games are excellent, but have a rather steep learning curve. Don't even bother with Shock Force. My dad bought it and I played it for a while. It's friggin' terrible. Here's hoping Normandy will be better. :smallfrown:

[Jair Barik]

Hmmmm cannon fodder? Theres no unit building in it and I seem to recall you are always against a much larger much more advanced enemy.