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mikeejimbo
2010-11-07, 09:01 PM
If you were creating a new spell system, regardless of the actual mechanics what spells would you say are absolutely essential?

What I'm doing is hard to explain, so I might as well start from the beginning. I'm putting together a new spell system for GURPS, but designing them as Powers. (A valid, suggested thing from Thaumatology.)

OK, I guess that wasn't so hard.

But anyway, the important thing is knowing where to start: What spells do you consider fundamental to adventurers? (I'll consider adventurers first, since that's what we need.)

HunterOfJello
2010-11-07, 09:12 PM
If you're trying to find essential spell types then I would look into different video games to get a good idea of what random magical powers are commonly used.


healing
fireballs
elemental spells
summoning
mind effecting
stat boosting types (higher strength or dexterity, etc.)
different status effects


are all common in most game and magic systems.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-07, 11:51 PM
Thanks for that list, it's helping me already. :smallsmile:

Also, I wonder if this should be in Homebrew? My thought was that it's mostly a discussion of what spells are necessary in a fantasy RPG, but the goal is to Homebrew something, so I'm not sure. :smallredface:

DragonOfUndeath
2010-11-08, 12:54 AM
Roleplay until you start statting out specific spells then request a move to homebrew

Summon
Stat boost/buffs
Status effects/debuffs
Damage
Utility (Detect, Prestidigitation, Dominate etc.)

mikeejimbo
2010-11-08, 03:21 PM
Whee, "cantrips" are so easy to build with my proposed mechanics that I couldn't help building some of those.

Of course, I had meant to list all (or most of, anyway) the spells I would need without regards to "level", and figuring that out later. Oh well.

'Cantrips' for the curious

Ignite Fire
Light
Haircut (cuts ones hair and finger/toenails!)
Knock (different from D&D's Knock, likely to be renamed)
Heat/Cool
Cook
Clean
Mend
Compass
Flavor
Rooster (wakes you up at a set time!)
Body Wash (keeps you clean!)
Hangover Cure
Self-Hypnosis
Sleeping Pill (aids in sleeping, but only on the caster)
Bullhorn (gives you a loud voice)

Godless_Paladin
2010-11-08, 07:29 PM
If you were creating a new spell system, regardless of the actual mechanics what spells would you say are absolutely essential? Nothing is essential. What you want a spell system to cover depends entirely on the setting and the kind of story you want to tell.

Ernir
2010-11-08, 07:54 PM
Nothing is essential. What you want a spell system to cover depends entirely on the setting and the kind of story you want to tell.

It's for GURPS, which aims to cover... everything, if I am not mistaken.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-08, 08:34 PM
True, but you have to start somewhere. I did specify that I am starting with what would be good for adventurers, though, as in the Dungeon Fantasy genre.

Aquillion
2010-11-08, 09:15 PM
If you were creating a new spell system, regardless of the actual mechanics what spells would you say are absolutely essential?

What I'm doing is hard to explain, so I might as well start from the beginning. I'm putting together a new spell system for GURPS, but designing them as Powers. (A valid, suggested thing from Thaumatology.)

OK, I guess that wasn't so hard.

But anyway, the important thing is knowing where to start: What spells do you consider fundamental to adventurers? (I'll consider adventurers first, since that's what we need.)Before we can answer, we need to know what sort of game you're planning in other ways -- high magic? Low magic? Are there any things you specifically don't want magic to be able to do (long-range scrying? Teleportation? Time travel? Resurrection?)

What role do you see your casters taking? Blasters who act basically like walking flamethrowers? Logistical support casters who teleport you around, cast buffs, and reshape the battlefield?

Do you want magic to be something reliable and common, or dangerous and risky?

Coidzor
2010-11-08, 09:26 PM
A way to burn things, a way to shock things, a way to freeze/chill things, and a way to melt things.

So, fire, electricity, anti-fire(cold), and acid/base/powerful solvent. 2x for utility vs. combat applications.

So that's 4 more minor and 4 more combat. Unless they're just different applications of the same fundamental thing.

A way to quickly decay things (iron bars, flesh) could be one each for each legal application you want or one spell with multiple legal targets.

Some spell that manipulates sound, either creating false sounds somewhere or mimicking voices heard previously or both. Another that uses it either to push or stun/damage enemies.

Ye olde sorcerous bolt of unspecified arcane energy...

mikeejimbo
2010-11-08, 09:34 PM
Before we can answer, we need to know what sort of game you're planning in other ways -- high magic? Low magic? Are there any things you specifically don't want magic to be able to do (long-range scrying? Teleportation? Time travel? Resurrection?)

What role do you see your casters taking? Blasters who act basically like walking flamethrowers? Logistical support casters who teleport you around, cast buffs, and reshape the battlefield?

Do you want magic to be something reliable and common, or dangerous and risky?

Well like I said, in this case I'm starting out with a rather "mundane" set of Dungeon Fantasy genre spells. (As in, pretty much what D&D built.)

Tvtyrant
2010-11-08, 11:57 PM
Well like I said, in this case I'm starting out with a rather "mundane" set of Dungeon Fantasy genre spells. (As in, pretty much what D&D built.)

The issue is we don't know what limits you want. If we started out with cantrip: make food and water, and you didn't want magic users the ability to live purely off their magic there would be a problem. Same thing with healing, etc.

The general bottom level spells I suggest would be:

Cant:
1. Create water: Makes a cup of water. You can live off it, but not comfortably
2. Create food: Makes a single piece of bread out of dirt. Same as above.
3. Remove Bruises: Heals 1d10 subdual damage
etc.

level 1:
1. ball of burning pitch type spell: Like lesser orbs
2. Create gallon of water
3. Create Loaf of bread
4. Create Ink Minion: creates a creature out of ink that transforms into a message when it gets to its destination.
5. Detect Magic
etc.

Essentially I would make the spells aspects of super powers or abilities people want to have in real life, and make the spells go up in time. So create cup of water ends in creation of an entire lake of water at level 20.

Erom
2010-11-09, 12:09 AM
Morrowind had a pretty awesome "basic magic toolkit". If you dropped some of the identical spells from different school you could use it as a base pretty easily. A good source of ideas anyway.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-09, 12:25 PM
The issue is we don't know what limits you want. If we started out with cantrip: make food and water, and you didn't want magic users the ability to live purely off their magic there would be a problem. Same thing with healing, etc.

Yes, OK, that is fair enough. At the moment, I'm kind of brainstorming, though and would like any and all ideas.


The general bottom level spells I suggest would be:

Cant:
1. Create water: Makes a cup of water. You can live off it, but not comfortably
2. Create food: Makes a single piece of bread out of dirt. Same as above.
3. Remove Bruises: Heals 1d10 subdual damage
etc.

level 1:
1. ball of burning pitch type spell: Like lesser orbs
2. Create gallon of water
3. Create Loaf of bread
4. Create Ink Minion: creates a creature out of ink that transforms into a message when it gets to its destination.
5. Detect Magic
etc.


This stuff is great!

Aquillion
2010-11-09, 07:08 PM
Well like I said, in this case I'm starting out with a rather "mundane" set of Dungeon Fantasy genre spells. (As in, pretty much what D&D built.)D&D pretty much has everything at this point, but it's problematic because it wasn't designed with an understanding of what it meant to throw in everything.

In other words, think about what the D&D Teleport spell means (it's obvious that the designers of D&D didn't really think it through!) Do you want your casters to be able to instantly warp out of danger? If a wizard knows where you live, are you basically screwed because he can warp in and murder you in your sleep (unless you have similar magic to block him?)

Shadowrun, say, bans teleportation magic because the game is heavily based around players trying to break in to places, and being able to just teleport in would undermine that. Scrying magic similarly has to be handled carefully if you want discovering information to be difficult.

You have to think about the statement that your magical effects make about your setting -- what's easy, what's difficult, etc.

Also: Random spell-name generator (http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/dyingearth.html). You may find something interesting in there.

ericgrau
2010-11-09, 07:24 PM
Just to throw in some random options:

Force effects including fields and telekinesis
Calling/summoning with varying degrees of control or duration.
Ways to interact with any special mechanics (ghosts, planes, lost limbs, etc.)
Divination: scrying, telepathy, and reading traces of things that used to be there, detecting any special mechanics your system may have
Illusions, mind control/altering and/or hallucinations (i.e., both)
Defenses to all of the above: general counters to magic, unsummoning, blocking divination, shielding one's mind, etc. Remember that defenses must be versatile, long lasting, cheap or also granted by offensive options to be effective. If you have 10 offensive options, have 10 matching defensive options of equal level and only get to pick 2 major spells then no one will even bother with defense b/c there's only a 20% chance it will do anything while leaving you without any offense. Likewise future updates with new offensive options nerfs defense.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-09, 11:39 PM
You have to think about the statement that your magical effects make about your setting -- what's easy, what's difficult, etc.

Yes, eventually. But right now I'm more brainstorming, I would say. Throwing everything on the table, to take a look at, at least.

Everything in this thread has helped me, already, though, so thanks! :smallbiggrin: