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Morithias
2010-11-08, 02:37 AM
After re-watching Linkara's "History of Power Rangers" series I've come to a thought project of whether or not this concept could make the DMPC "possible" without it being over the top, plot macguffin or mary sue. Although yes many of the Sixth rangers in Power Rangers have ended up as such, or similar to such, I've found many could actually work as such.

As with almost all character it would take work, but I think if I had to pick one that would be "ideal" it would obviously be the Time Force Ranger, his powers are not-connected to those of the heroes, he doesn't actively work with them, rather he's just from another force working towards the same goal, and for a great deal of the series is more of a rival than a partner.

The Magna Defender from Lost Galaxy could work as such, assuming one is able to keep secrets about his past, and play down him after the reveal of who he is, and while we're talking about space themed ranger series. The Phantom Ranger, from Turbo and later "In Space" also showed signs of a good DMPC. Powerful, moved forward the plot, was never stealing the spotlight or even around that much (seriously in two whole series he was in like seven episodes).

On the other hand, if your group REALLY likes combat, but not plot so much. Light-speed Rescue might be more your group's DMPC area. Although the "Titanium Ranger" was a powerful ranger, he actually didn't fight a ton, rather he served as the behind-the-fight-scenes plot advancement, and actually did more in terms of ending the threat for good than the ones actively killing the monsters, enabling the series to progress plot wise, while the main characters where able to keep the "Light-speed" part alive, via fast combat and the "Rescue" by helping injured people, while #6 was working elsewhere.

For DMs who really really really, like having stated PC's in the game, namely so that if mr. explains everything gets attacked you aren't making stats on the fly I think this might be one of the best concepts for doing so, and although it's an idea I personally just came up with, I think it's something I'll seriously consider in future game I run.

What do you people think? Is it time for the DMPC to go Ranger 6?

Edit: When I say "I personally" I mean that it just came to me, not that I invented it.

Callista
2010-11-08, 10:12 AM
I avoid DMPCs like the plague when I run a game. I'm already running the whole world; I don't need the extra distraction of running a PC, too. If they take an NPC with them, then he'll be low-level and uninvolved in fighting. They can keep him safe or get him killed; I'm not going to be spending time planning strategy against myself!

Morithias
2010-11-08, 10:33 AM
I avoid DMPCs like the plague when I run a game. I'm already running the whole world; I don't need the extra distraction of running a PC, too. If they take an NPC with them, then he'll be low-level and uninvolved in fighting. They can keep him safe or get him killed; I'm not going to be spending time planning strategy against myself!

Logical thinking yes, but I don't think most good authors sit down and think "ok we need to design all of the villain plans but ignore all of the hero stuff, the readers will be able to just throw themselves in their shoes". I'm pretty sure that kind of thought process is why ironically, most villains I've read have more personality than the heroes. (Face it no one has ever really written "Villain with a thousand faces" and all the "Idiot Hero" themes are enough to prove to me that either people simply can't write smart heroes or are too lazy too).

Although the heroes are largely the PC's the fact remains that often the PC's just don't always do the thing that is smart. You can drop a million warning signs not to attack the empire head on, but they'll do and you'll either have to Deus Ex machina them out or TPK. The third option is to have this, where a character serves as a Deus Ex Machina but due to reoccuring and having plot rather than being a "Macguffin Girl" seems less like a Deus ex machina and more like a Chekov's Gun.

Note: and yes I read the bloody trope site and use the terms, I don't need the next 3 posts to be lampshading the fact I'm using their terms!

Starbuck_II
2010-11-08, 10:35 AM
I always saw them as a new PC not DMPC.
The DM might help guide the sixth ranger but the character chooses what he does.

Callista
2010-11-08, 10:36 AM
...so I'll TPK them. Better than railroading. Anyway, you can always give them hints, OOC, that what they're doing is a Bad Idea.

Morithias
2010-11-08, 10:40 AM
...so I'll TPK them. Better than railroading. Anyway, you can always give them hints, OOC, that what they're doing is a Bad Idea.

Wouldn't that get old after a while? Having to roll up a new group 3 times a session? Then again my group runs sessions 15 hours long and is kinda crazy, so maybe your group is more sane.

Callista
2010-11-08, 11:26 AM
I've never TPK'd anyone yet... though I did at one point come so close that the party had to be saved by the wizard's familiar.

kestrel404
2010-11-08, 12:29 PM
I don't think most good authors sit down and think "ok we need to design all of the villain plans but ignore all of the hero stuff, the readers will be able to just throw themselves in their shoes".

Ah, here's the problem. Seems to me you're looking at the players as 'consumers' of your story, i.e. you're the 'author'. This is entirely not the case.

The Players are just as much the authors of the story as you are. The 'game' aspect of the role-playing game is both diverse and complicated, but one of the parts of that game is throwing puzzle pieces at the players and watching them try to make a picture out of them - if you do this well, your players will come up with the right picture (or at least something close enough to work with) at the time of your choosing.

I've always disliked the term DMPC anyway - there's no such thing. Either you've got an NPC or a PC. If you, as the DM, want to play a PC, you have to find someone else to DM (even a co-GM can work for this). Otherwise, it's just another NPC.

Amiria
2010-11-08, 12:31 PM
I play Pen & Paper RPGs with only one friend. We almost always have one or more DMPCs and the player almost always plays 2 or more PCs.

I agree that it is demanding to play too many DMPCs but it is quite naturally for me to control 1 or more DMPCs. 3 of them is the most I sometimes control when I'm the DM but I prefer less.

As a player I have no problem (and still fun) playing multiple PCs. The maximum was 4 or later 5 in a Forgotten Realms campaign that ended with City of the Spider Queen. My friedn was the DM and played a bard as a DMPC. I played 4 characters (a Fighter type, a Gish, a Cleric, a Rogue/Ranger), and when we reached the Drow City even 5 (the Cleric's Planar Ally).

In our current Conan RPG campaigns we usually switch DM position after every adventure, so one adventure's PC(s) become(s) the next adventure's DMPC(s).

dsmiles
2010-11-08, 12:35 PM
I've never TPK'd anyone yet... though I did at one point come so close that the party had to be saved by the wizard's familiar.

My (now dead) character's cohort (a warjack) had to save the party's arse in the basement of the temple in EtCR just a few nights ago. It was fun.

Morithias
2010-11-08, 01:28 PM
Yeah, it just seems that most of the complains about the DMPC's largely being "Mary Sue's" or "Overpowered NPC's" who steal the spotlight could be removed by using some of these concepts.

Although you all make a ton of good points. :)

Nero24200
2010-11-08, 02:09 PM
Wouldn't that get old after a while? Having to roll up a new group 3 times a session? Then again my group runs sessions 15 hours long and is kinda crazy, so maybe your group is more sane.

It may sound harsh, but if they're continiously falling into death traps and still don't realise that they need to be careful then maybe roleplaying games with dangerous elements (such as combat) might not be for them.

I feel I run pretty dangerous campaigns at times but despite that my PC's aren't exactly falling left right and center. The shortest and deadliest campaign I ran still lasted about 5 games (with each game lasting about 5-6 hours) and not a single PC died until the last game (a confusion spell on the raging barbarian cause the death of a few party members who were already in a pretty tight situation).

I doubt having to roll up 3 new characters per session is really an issue for anyone. Having to roll more than one character per session shouldn't really be an issue for anyone. 15 hour games or not if your PC's have to roll up multiple characters mid-session you should either try a less deadly game or tell them to use their heads. No one should die that often.

Codenpeg
2010-11-09, 03:15 PM
My (now dead) character's cohort (a warjack) had to save the party's arse in the basement of the temple in EtCR just a few nights ago. It was fun.

What system/book are you playing to get a warjack?

dsmiles
2010-11-09, 03:29 PM
Iron Kingdoms. We used a heavily modified Maug (Fiend Folio) to get a low enough level warjack for me to take an awakened one as a cohort. Standard Light Warjacks have about 12-14 HD.

Cieyrin
2010-11-09, 03:32 PM
What system/book are you playing to get a warjack?

Warjacks are from the Iron Kingdoms Campaign Setting by Privateer Press.

EDIT: ninja'd :smallannoyed:

Tengu_temp
2010-11-09, 03:36 PM
The sixth ranger, especially the original green one, often is one of the coolest characters around and a one-man spotlight stealing squad. I'd be wary to introduce such a character as an NPC, especially if he has a tendency to save the PCs from trouble (and consequently annoy them, if it was something they could've handled alone).

As I said many times before, there are two key points to making good NPCs adventuring together with the party: make sure that the PCs still have the majority of the spotlight are are the main active force, and make sure that the PCs like the NPC. Fulfill those two points and you can get away with anything, even characters much stronger than the party or ones whose existence is critical to the plot.

Codenpeg
2010-11-09, 03:38 PM
Iron Kingdoms. We used a heavily modified Maug (Fiend Folio) to get a low enough level warjack for me to take an awakened one as a cohort. Standard Light Warjacks have about 12-14 HD.

Yes I thought so! It's so difficult to find people who have played the system, I took up the role of cleric for that game. Don't you just love how healing works in Iron Kingdoms?
Things went down hill when we were captured by Cryx bounty hunters... I believe I was the last original character in a party that was now evil, the others kept yelling at me to heal them and I could do nothing. That poor, poor cleric.

Spoiler: In Iron Kingdoms if you heal someone that is too many steps away from your alignment, if they worship the wrong god, etc. terrible things happen if you heal them.

dsmiles
2010-11-09, 03:46 PM
Spoiler: In Iron Kingdoms if you heal someone that is too many steps away from your alignment, if they worship the wrong god, etc. terrible things happen if you heal them.

I know, that's why I was playing a Gun Mage. In Ravenloft. With an awakened Gorgon-type Light Myrmidon as a cohort. Who saved the party's collective arse.