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Traja
2010-11-08, 04:52 AM
Hi!
Since my Party might need a new healer in the future, i'm looking for some options...
I think nobody wants to play a stupid heal-bot that is capable of tanking a rat for days but can't defeat it on his own ;)
I'm not a fan of DMM: Persist - ClericZillas.
I try to find something .. different. Like an Eldritch Disciple with Healing Blast or a someone running around with an Ice Axe, delivering painful touch attacks... but he should still be a viable healer..

Any Ideas? Would be great to get some inspiration...

Greenish
2010-11-08, 04:56 AM
How about a crusader? You'll heal peeps by defeating that rat!

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-11-08, 04:57 AM
Anyone - anyone - with sufficient UMD can be a healer.

Illumian Beguiler1/Wizard4/Ultimate Magus10/Loremaster 5
You're two ranks behind, but that's okay. You'll be healin' and restorin' just fine. Other uses for UMD include Bead of Karma on all those hours-long buffs you'll be putting on yourself and others, and scrolls of Surge of Fortune for crit shenanigans.

Crossblade
2010-11-08, 05:01 AM
Zen Archery? Back of the party, don't dirty your hands, but are still a healer.

Runestar
2010-11-08, 05:04 AM
Shadow sun ninja from ToB? You can attack foes and then store energy to heal your allies. Bonus if you are undead! :smallbiggrin:

Killer Angel
2010-11-08, 05:06 AM
Druid.
While you tear faces, summon a unicorn. :smallbiggrin:

Eloel
2010-11-08, 05:09 AM
Shadow sun ninja from ToB? You can attack foes and then store energy to heal your allies. Bonus if you are undead! :smallbiggrin:

This is a fun way to do it. You can take the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat instead of being an undead, to be healed by the negative energy. Ta-daa, you can now heal yourself, your allies AND damage enemies when you feel like it.

Morithias
2010-11-08, 05:09 AM
The Arcane Archer although lacking heavily in the divine, and magic in general department does have one ability that if the class was easier to get into and advanced spell ranks, would be very useful, namely the "put an area spell on the arrow and shoot it at the ground in the combat zone". Healers can be targets of attacks a fair bit, and often act as a milestone. However if your healer is 200 feet away shooting in a healing spell and then using a move action to hide after the snipe he/she can heal from a distance, and be quite useful due to not getting in the way.

However I'm yet to come up with a way to legit do it, although seriously that one ability should be like a +3 bonus on a bow at most. Ask your DM.

Edit: Also take a ton of mass buff and mass un-buff spells to spam when your allies don't need healing.

Eloel
2010-11-08, 05:23 AM
The arcane archer thing gives me an idea that requires 2 people (use your cohort!)

Person #1 is a Cleric, with a Spell Storing Dagger & Snatch Arrows. Person #2 is a Monk. Person #1 casts Heal into the dagger, throws at Monk. Monk catches with Snatch Arrows, stabs at an ally (be halfling with 6 str for minimum damage), and throws back. Repeat.

Why a monk? He's fast, and is pretty hard to hit (normally ignored because he sucks at the offensive) so he can grab Spring Attack, zoom across the battlefield, healing allies. He's also useless normally, so this gives him something to do.

Found a use for monk!

Edit: You can also do the above with arrows, and actually shoot into enemies when you don't need to heal. Monk could collect all arrows in a quiver and hand back after battle. You COULD make everyone get Snatch Arrows and stab themselves as a free action when you shoot them, but that would make the monk pointless again.

Morithias
2010-11-08, 05:26 AM
The arcane archer thing gives me an idea that requires 2 people (use your cohort!)

Person #1 is a Cleric, with a Spell Storing Dagger & Snatch Arrows. Person #2 is a Monk. Person #1 casts Heal into the dagger, throws at Monk. Monk catches with Snatch Arrows, stabs at an ally (be halfling with 6 str for minimum damage), and throws back. Repeat.

Why a monk? He's fast, and is pretty hard to hit (normally ignored because he sucks at the offensive) so he can grab Spring Attack, zoom across the battlefield, healing allies. He's also useless normally, so this gives him something to do.

Found a use for monk!

Edit: You can also do the above with arrows, and actually shoot into enemies when you don't need to heal. Monk could collect all arrows in a quiver and hand back after battle. You COULD make everyone get Snatch Arrows and stab themselves as a free action when you shoot them, but that would make the monk pointless again.

Could work....it's a bit elaborate...but it seems legit.

Dr.Epic
2010-11-08, 05:45 AM
You can easily make a cleric that also doubles as a fighter.

faceroll
2010-11-08, 05:58 AM
DMM: persist mass lesser vigor. Don't abuse nightsticks, pick a domain other than undeath, and you're only going to be getting one or two spells to persist, tops.

Alternatively, there's an ACF in Complete Champion for a bard (replaces a low level bardic music ability) that makes it so when you use 1 bardic music attempt, all healing spells get a bonus to rolls equal to your ranks in perform. You can also double the rate of natural rest when singing for 5 minutes before bedtime.

AslanCross
2010-11-08, 06:07 AM
Psychic Warrior with Empathic Transfer and Body Adjustment?

Re'ozul
2010-11-08, 06:18 AM
Hi!

I think nobody wants to play a stupid heal-bot that is capable of tanking a rat for days but can't defeat it on his own ;)


I beg to differ. I like playing characters like that, especially in alignment-free or ambiguous settings where I can be greedy and basically ask for payment for heals without suffering character-loss.

Traja
2010-11-08, 07:00 AM
Anyone - anyone - with sufficient UMD can be a healer.

Illumian Beguiler1/Wizard4/Ultimate Magus10/Loremaster 5
You're two ranks behind, but that's okay. You'll be healin' and restorin' just fine. Other uses for UMD include Bead of Karma on all those hours-long buffs you'll be putting on yourself and others, and scrolls of Surge of Fortune for crit shenanigans.

Won't the excessive use of wands and scroll end up in consuming the bigger part of my income? :smalleek:
Never tried it that way.. so correct me if i'm wrong


I beg to differ. I like playing characters like that, especially in alignment-free or ambiguous settings where I can be greedy and basically ask for payment for heals without suffering character-loss.
Ok. But that would not be a boring healer ;) But since we play with alignment and my party would not be happy, if I want to get paid for every heal.. well.. not really an option

Godless_Paladin
2010-11-08, 07:03 AM
You're having trouble making a non-boring healer in 3.5e? :smallconfused:


Hi!
Since my Party might need a new healer in the future, i'm looking for some options...
I think nobody wants to play a stupid heal-bot that is capable of tanking a rat for days but can't defeat it on his own ;)
I'm not a fan of DMM: Persist - ClericZillas.
I try to find something .. different. Like an Eldritch Disciple with Healing Blast or a someone running around with an Ice Axe, delivering painful touch attacks... but he should still be a viable healer..

Any Ideas? Would be great to get some inspiration...

Then play a cleric without DMM:Persist. Saying you can't make a cleric that's more than a healbot without DMM:Persist is like saying you can't play a Wizard without planar binding efreetis for infinite wishes.

You don't need DMM:Persist to make a Cleric fill any role effectively. I'm playing a melee cleric right now without it and she is at least as effective as the party Warblade with a sword... without any rounds to buff. Works at low levels, too. Just counting a 14 Str, Masterwork weapon, Knowledge Devotion, Law Devotion, 2 BAB (I use Cloistered Cleric for my melee clerics, because free Knowledge Devotion and more skills), and Weapon Focus (War Domain) you have a +14 to hit at level 4. +16 on a charge or flank. More if you had time to buff. With a bonus like that, you can always full power attack. You get extra damage from Knowledge Devotion, but you can get more with Blade of Blood (a swift action), giving you a good 12+5d6 on a basic greatsword. And heck, next level you can go into Ordained Champion or something. With time to buff, you could add stuff like Cloud of Knives or Brambles. You also can get a great deal of mobility with the Travel Domain (free action Freedom of Movement), or Updraft (first level SpC spell, basically a very limited fly), and so forth. Soon you can get stuff like Girallon's Blessing (also SpC) to just plain grow four arms and rip people's faces off with your bare hands or whatever. And of course, you can do all kinds of things besides just swing a sword.

Clerics are amazing melee fighters. In fact, you can build a cleric to be good at pretty much any role you want. Just name it.

A low level (e.g., five or less) melee cleric can not only swing a sword with the best of 'em, she can leap tall buildings in a single bound, see through walls, mess with people's minds, outrun a Monk, use Superman's freeze breath, or sneak around silently, summon a whirlwind of knives, paralyze a person with a thought, or forego standard weapons for sudden maximized darkfire for a given combat. That "not boring" enough for you? If not, that's not all they can do. And their capabilities just get much, much better as they level up.

DMM:P is entirely unnecessary cheese. Whoever told you that you need that in order to make a cleric do something besides just heal has no idea what they're talking about.

Clerics aren't healbots. Healing is just something they can also handle on the side. Clerics are unhinged killing machines that come in every flavor of badass.

http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w325/OneWinged4ngel77/Stereotype_Killer.png

faceroll
2010-11-08, 07:04 AM
Won't the excessive use of wands and scroll end up in consuming the bigger part of my income? :smalleek:
Never tried it that way.. so correct me if i'm wrong

A wand of cure light wounds heals 50d8+50 (average ~275) hp and costs 750 gp, or half that if a party member makes it. A wand of lesser vigor costs the same and heals 550 hp. Each HP to be healed only costs a couple gold at the most and handful of silver at the least. Once you get beyond level 2, these costs will become virtually negligible.

[edit]
Forgot to mention, if a party member wants heals, have them buy a wand. You shouldn't have to pay for the fighter's insistence on getting hurt all the time.

Greenish
2010-11-08, 07:09 AM
I beg to differ. I like playing characters like that, especially in alignment-free or ambiguous settings where I can be greedy and basically ask for payment for heals without suffering character-loss.Eberron woot! House Jorasco (which basically has the monopoly on healing on an entire continent) has as a part of it's Hippocratic Oath the promise to never heal anyone before being paid.

Flesh_Engine
2010-11-08, 07:20 AM
Low lvl options:
Dragon Shaman (lvl1 min) with vigor aura heals everyone 50% all day

Sacred Healing (Complete Divine) gives fasthealing 3 for CHR mod rounds per turn undead use (more members the better)

Cleric with Healing Devotion & extra turnings (fasthealing 1/2/3/4/5 for 1 minute per turn) (for smaller parties)

higher level options:
Sorceror with Hoard Life (RotD) + Touch of Healing => 50% healing for entire party all day

Binder with the Buer vestige

Traja
2010-11-08, 08:11 AM
DMM:P is entirely unnecessary cheese. Whoever told you that you need that in order to make a cleric do something besides just heal has no idea what they're talking about.

Clerics aren't healbots. Healing is just something they can also handle on the side. Clerics are unhinged killing machines that come in every flavor of badass.

Woah. Don't get me wrong :smalleek: I never said, that a cleric can't be fun! Or that you need DMM! (..at least, that's not what I was trying to say)
I just meant, that (for example) RsoP or DMM: Persistent are potent ways to play a cleric, but they are not the way I want to play a Character.
And please don't understand this threat as a 'Help me not to suck'-Post, i'm just looking for inspiration :smallwink:

WinceRind
2010-11-08, 08:43 AM
Well, there is such thing as a healing arrow... I'm pretty sure I've seen it in one of the books, might have been 3.0 edition though.

Basically, you shoot people, but instead of damage it casts Cure Light Wounds (and there might be other higher level heal spells available, I'm not sure).

Get max BAB and tell your comrades not to duck. Make pin-cushions of them... pin-cushions of perfect health!

Psyren
2010-11-08, 08:47 AM
Eldritch Disciple is the fun healer :smallsmile:

You get 60' Healing Lasers! Plus all the goodies like Vigor, Recitation, Heal etc. Dump dex and fire your lasers with Zen Archery.

Last Laugh
2010-11-08, 09:11 AM
Low lvl options:
Dragon Shaman (lvl1 min) with vigor aura heals everyone 50% all day

This isn't a bad suggestion. It only gets you half way to healing, but it can be taken as a feat at 3rd level (Dragon Magic, feat is Draconic Aura)
Wands are the easiest way to keep everyone at full health without a level investment I think. (If you have a class who is good at Use Magic Device give him one.)
Ardent could be ok for healing. Pick up Guardian Mantle, get a Psicrystal, manifest vigor affecting you both. (each of you has lots of temp HP, you can block blows for an ally.)

Good Mantle and Life Mantle both offer some healing (Good has Empathic Transfer, if you find some fasthealing)
Grab the feat that lets your psicrystal hold a focus, and take the Dominant Ideal alternate feature from The Mind's Eye (apply metapsionic feats to a single mantle at -2 PP and no loss of focus)
Link power becomes godly at this point. Hustle and link a vigor to it. Manifest a Vigor and link and Empathic Transfer to it. Nothing in Empathic Transfer talks about temporary HP. Empathic Transfer costs 3pp for 2d10 healing (and same damage to yourself) +2d10/pp. You take half of that, A single Vigor (1 PP) will on average (almost) cover the damage.
Share pain on your psicrystal. would be a stellar addition, at the cost of Expanded Knowledge.

You can tank tons of damage, you can manifest powers (pick Kalashtar for more PP, Elan for race stuff, Dragonborn for Draconic Aura, Whatever race you like for whatever reason)
This seems a little feat heavy tho....
Psicrystal Affinity
Psicrystal Containment
Expanded Knowledge (Share Pain) optional, but awesome.
Possibly Expanded Knowledge for Share Pain. (is there a better way to gain access? Pain and Suffering gives Share Pain, Forced. only 1rd/level duration tho)
Cool Mantles for a Healer/Guardian theme
Guardian Mantle (Expend focus to take a hit for an ally)
Life mantle (heal 2hp/PP, has access to restoration)
Physical Power Mantle (Has access to Vigor)
Good Mantle (Empathic Transfer is efficient healing when combined with Vigor)
Ardents are also heavily customizable based on Mantle selection. For Dominant Ideal I like a utility mantle like freedom, You can usually find a use for a Vigor linked Hustle.

Godless_Paladin
2010-11-08, 09:20 AM
I just meant, that (for example) RsoP or DMM: Persistent are potent ways to play a cleric, but they are not the way I want to play a Character.

Which is why I just listed other ways to play one. So what's your issue? :smallconfused:

Psyren
2010-11-08, 09:22 AM
If you want a psionic healer, don't forget the Sangehirn PrC (http://69.8.198.251/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c). The list is very restricted, so the class is best as a 3-level dip to grab Healing Touch. You can then return to your base class or another PrC; RAW, Healing Touch applies to the designated powers regardless of how you learn them, so you can just cherry-pick the ones you want via non-Sangehirn levels.

But here's a real non-boring psionic healer - the Worldthought Medic (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/worldthought-medic) from Dreamscarred Press. You can heal the rest of the party from your living room while they're miles away, or even on another plane at the later levels!

TurtleKing
2010-11-08, 09:25 AM
A Bard can also heal a bit. Granted they are not the best, but they can do some healing. The other great aspect about them is how you optimze your Bard. You could be melee, ranged, caster, party face, buffer, or debuffer.

Another thing to look into is Alchemy. With that you can buff, "heal" conditions, debuff, or bomb away. Also using Brew Potion Feat to make some Cure Light Potions.

grarrrg
2010-11-08, 09:37 AM
Make pin-cushions of them... pin-cushions of perfect health!

This sounds like a quote from Minsc.
A MORE not-all-there Minsc with levels in Cleric.
But Minsc nonetheless.

Souhiro
2010-11-08, 09:40 AM
You can be a humble bard, who carries a few wands of Cure Light Wounds. Those are cheap, and USEFUL.

In one of my games, the paladin died, there weren't any cleric... and then, we recruited a druid to the game party. The main flaw was that the druid only prepared Cure X Wounds and forget he had many other spells.

So, when they plundered a dungeon, I put one of those Cure Light Wounds, with 50 charges. Two Spellcraft rolls later, he knew that recharging it was anything but expensive.

Since that day, the druid hasn't prepaired any CLW. His two wands (He bought another one) are the "Heal outside combat" trick.

Eloel
2010-11-08, 09:41 AM
Psychic Warrior with Empathic Transfer and Body Adjustment?

Telepath w/Empathic Transfer (Expanded Knowledge) and Hostile Empathic Transfer. Maximize your Con and Int, dump all other stats.

Put Schism up. Empathic Transfer (7 pp for 10d10, 11 pp for 100 hp [maximize]) from ally, Hostile Empathic Transfer (with the area choice) into enemy (11 pp for 25 [50 if they fail their save] damage healed off you [per enemy] and dealt to enemies.). So, their damage turns right back to them. Have a friendly wizard with the elemental summoning reserve feat so you can do the healing whenever you want.

Psyren
2010-11-08, 09:49 AM
Telepath w/Empathic Transfer (Expanded Knowledge) and Hostile Empathic Transfer. Maximize your Con and Int, dump all other stats.

Put Schism up. Empathic Transfer (7 pp for 10d10, 11 pp for 100 hp [maximize]) from ally, Hostile Empathic Transfer (with the area choice) into enemy (11 pp for 25 [50 if they fail their save] damage healed off you [per enemy] and dealt to enemies.). So, their damage turns right back to them. Have a friendly wizard with the elemental summoning reserve feat so you can do the healing whenever you want.

Ardent is also great here - beefier HD, and the Pain and Suffering mantle is made for tricks like this. The granted power lets you return half the damage of a melee attack you receive back to your attacker - untyped, no save, and NOT Mind-Affecting like HET is. A few dips can also get you Wis-SAD so you can dump everything but Wis and Con.

They can also learn both ET and HET without needing Expanded Knowledge :smallsmile:

Traja
2010-11-08, 09:50 AM
Which is why I just listed other ways to play one. So what's your issue? :smallconfused:

Just wanted to clarify what I meant (Clerics are not boring but DMM is not my way).. but got more confusing I guess. Lack of ranks in English, I guess :smallsmile:
What you, and the other here, posted was exactly what I was hoping for ;) Thanks for that so far.

Amphetryon
2010-11-08, 09:55 AM
Step 1: Get everyone to take Tomb-Tainted Soul.
Step 2: Be a Dread Necromancer.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit! Free healing and armies of undead. :smallbiggrin:

Psyren
2010-11-08, 10:31 AM
Step 1: Get everyone to take Tomb-Tainted Soul.
Step 2: Be a Dread Necromancer.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit! Free healing and armies of undead. :smallbiggrin:

I found Saph's take on this approach very entertaining:


I always find this kind of CharOp reasoning hilarious. :P

"What do you mean you don't want to be turned into a desecrated undead? I just demonstrated that it would make you more powerful, didn't I?"

:smalltongue:

Eldariel
2010-11-08, 10:36 AM
Anyone - anyone - with sufficient UMD can be a healer.

Illumian Beguiler1/Wizard4/Ultimate Magus10/Loremaster 5
You're two ranks behind, but that's okay. You'll be healin' and restorin' just fine. Other uses for UMD include Bead of Karma on all those hours-long buffs you'll be putting on yourself and others, and scrolls of Surge of Fortune for crit shenanigans.

Cross-class skills don't work that way. If it's ever been a class skill, your max rank is determined by it being a class skill. You'll be able to have full UMD if you have even one level of Loremaster, for example.


EDIT: @OP: There's no way to make a boring Druid. Just so you know. Also, you can play a caster Cleric (they work really well), an Archivist or something to that effect. Or a Sublime Chord Bard. Your options are practically limitless.

Though healing with Wands is the best, especially early on; using those spell slots for combat makes life so much easier.

subject42
2010-11-08, 01:11 PM
I may be reading this incorrectly, but the "sacred" weapon enhancement from Libris Mortis says that is wreathes a weapon in positive energy that does an additional 1d6 points of damage to undead creatures. There's also a sacred burst version as well.

If that additional 1d6 points of damage is actually positive energy damage as is implied, just grab a few tiny daggers that carry this enhancement and stab your party members with them. At worst the 1d6 will cancel out the damage from the tiny dagger and at best it will cure 5 points of damage.

Just do that and call yourself a combat acupuncturist.

Eloel
2010-11-08, 01:14 PM
I may be reading this incorrectly, but the "sacred" weapon enhancement from Libris Mortis says that is wreathes a weapon in positive energy that does an additional 1d6 points of damage to undead creatures. There's also a sacred burst version as well.

If that additional 1d6 points of damage is actually positive energy damage as is implied, just grab a few tiny daggers that carry this enhancement and stab your party members with them. At worst the 1d6 will cancel out the damage from the tiny dagger and at best it will cure 5 points of damage.

Just do that and call yourself a combat acupuncturist.
Hmm, Aptitude Keen Rapier-trick with Lightning Maces, but with Sacred enhancement?
(That could heal Omniscificer too. Yay?)

subject42
2010-11-08, 02:45 PM
Hmm, Aptitude Keen Rapier-trick with Lightning Maces, but with Sacred enhancement?
(That could heal Omniscificer too. Yay?)

Well if you're going to get silly, the 1d2 Crusader might as well use these weapons too.

Greenish
2010-11-08, 02:55 PM
I may be reading this incorrectly, but the "sacred" weapon enhancement from Libris Mortis says that is wreathes a weapon in positive energy that does an additional 1d6 points of damage to undead creatures. There's also a sacred burst version as well.

If that additional 1d6 points of damage is actually positive energy damage as is implied, just grab a few tiny daggers that carry this enhancement and stab your party members with them. At worst the 1d6 will cancel out the damage from the tiny dagger and at best it will cure 5 points of damage.

Just do that and call yourself a combat acupuncturist.Positive Energy damage doesn't heal living beings (even if the weapon would trigger against them).

Eloel
2010-11-08, 02:56 PM
Well if you're going to get silly, the 1d2 Crusader might as well use these weapons too.

Wouldn't have much point. 1d2 Crusader's base weapon damage goes up, nothing else.

subject42
2010-11-08, 03:04 PM
Positive Energy damage doesn't heal living beings (even if the weapon would trigger against them).

It doesn't? I thought that was why you exploded on the positive energy plane.

Psyren
2010-11-08, 03:15 PM
It doesn't? I thought that was why you exploded on the positive energy plane.

That's not due to damage.

Eloel
2010-11-09, 04:42 AM
That's not due to damage.

Yeah, it's due to temporary HP.

Greenish
2010-11-09, 06:41 AM
It doesn't? I thought that was why you exploded on the positive energy plane.Positive Energy Plane doesn't deal Positive Energy damage. (It's also completely harmless for undead.)