Horses plus Dinosaurs - Awesome or terrible?

[Quietus]

In working on a setting I've been toying with for a while, I've come across an issue I'd like some feedback on. My girlfriend suggested that the mix of horses + dinosaurs might be a little too off, and I'd like to see what people here think.

The schtick : an area known as "the central plains", where dinosaurs are known to roam. Groups of humans live there, moving with the herds of large herbivores, taking advantage of the horses (which also generally serve as prey for the carnivorous dinosaurs) that inhabit these plains - they had to do so, because of the fact that many carnivores are extremely fast, and good riders can outpace these quick-footed creatures. There's a reason that these people live here, instead of moving to a city, or at least there was... now it's just tradition and culture, leading to many different tribes following different family-groups of dinosaurs, some more willing to give up the life than others.

Would that mix of dinosaurs, horses, and tribal living pull you out of the setting, if you were introduced to it in-game? The cities these people would interact with are mostly small cities set up on trade routes as a waystation/safe place to serve as a meeting point for trading goods between other, much more far-off cities. So it's not that "D&D modern" cities don't exist, just that they tend to be so far away as to be known, but not experienced by most members of a given tribe.

[Marnath]

This sounds kind of like the talenta plains in Eberron, where halfling barbarians tame velociraptors to ride. I don't know of any horsemen on their actual territory, but there are horser using groups somewhere on the continent.

So I'd be fine with it.

[Kaje]

Everything's better with dinosaurs.

That said, are the horses necessary? Surely there are dinos that could serve the same purpose. I don't hate the concept, but well... horses are boring.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Dire horses might work better, all those spikes and claws are useful to avoid being munched down by a dinosaur.:smallamused:

[Drakevarg]

I don't hate the concept, but well... horses are boring.

Just don't say that within earshot of someone who raises horses. :smalltongue:

Believe it or not, they're a tad more complex than hay-eating bicycles.

[Quietus]

Everything's better with dinosaurs.

That said, are the horses necessary? Surely there are dinos that could serve the same purpose. I don't hate the concept, but well... horses are boring.

In this case, I want something the "barbarians of the central plains" can ride that roughly equals the speed of deinonychus and megaraptors (60 foot speed, run feat), and horses fit this well. I couldn't find a dinosaur that was roughly horse-shaped that I could just steal the horse stats and be done with it, unfortunately - I'm open to suggestions in that area.

[AslanCross]

I think it's a pretty plausible idea.


This sounds kind of like the talenta plains in Eberron, where halfling barbarians tame velociraptors to ride. I don't know of any horsemen on their actual territory, but there are horser using groups somewhere on the continent.

So I'd be fine with it.

Yep, this is true. Actually, the nation of Valenar is right beside the Talenta Plains, and they're pretty much Elvish Rohirrim. They breed horses and occasionally raid Karrnathi border settlements by passing through the Talenta Plains.

It's definitely possible that in Eberron, the wild dinosaurs sometimes prey on the marauding elves and their horses.

Horses aren't boring when bloodthirsty Mongol elves ride them.

[Coidzor]

Just don't say that within earshot of someone who raises horses. :smalltongue:

Believe it or not, they're a tad more complex than hay-eating bicycles.

They're plotting against us, for one.


Horses aren't boring when bloodthirsty Mongol elves ride them.

Well, that's one way to flip the paradigm between half-orcs and half-elves upside down, I must say...

Aren't the bipedal, herbivorous horse-equivalent mounts of the talenta halflings in the ECS as well? You checked that and the MM3 out, Quietus?

[Marnath]

I think it's a pretty plausible idea.



Yep, this is true. Actually, the nation of Valenar is right beside the Talenta Plains, and they're pretty much Elvish Rohirrim. They breed horses and occasionally raid Karrnathi border settlements by passing through the Talenta Plains.

It's definitely possible that in Eberron, the wild dinosaurs sometimes prey on the marauding elves and their horses.

Horses aren't boring when bloodthirsty Mongol elves ride them.

I knew about the Valenar, I just couldn't remember where they were located.

[Quietus]

Horses aren't boring when bloodthirsty Mongol elves ride them.

How about when traditionalist tribal barbarians ride them to get away from hunting dinosaurs, or use them to chase down and tire big herbivorous dinosaurs for meat, tools, and profit?

::Edit:: Alternatively, would it have a better "feel" if I stuck with horses, or had a bunch of drakkensteed-riding barbarians instead?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dmag_gallery/100242.jpg

[Coidzor]

How about when traditionalist tribal barbarians ride them to get away from hunting dinosaurs, or use them to chase down and tire big herbivorous dinosaurs for meat, tools, and profit?

Eh, humans generally gang up and exterminate predators that are that much of a problem, especially if they've been around in the area for generators.

That's what'd strain credibility, not the horses and dinosaurs in the same place.

[AslanCross]

How about when traditionalist tribal barbarians ride them to get away from hunting dinosaurs, or use them to chase down and tire big herbivorous dinosaurs for meat, tools, and profit?

That works pretty well too. There's a myriad of ways to take advantage of their speed.

I'm already imagining a hunting group of mounted barbarians herding and running down hadrosaurs. It's awesome.

[Marnath]

Eh, humans generally gang up and exterminate predators that are that much of a problem, especially if they've been around in the area for generators.

That's what'd strain credibility, not the horses and dinosaurs in the same place.

You're thinking of the type of human that moves in and conquers an area, extracts all natural resources, and moves on. Actual tribal societies are a lot better at keeping the balance. After all, no one ever hunted wolves and mountain lions into extinction/near extinction for thousands of years before settlers showed up on the continent.

[LOTRfan]

If horses are what you want, just slap the reptilian template on them. Its in Savage Species.

[Coidzor]

You're thinking of the type of human that moves in and conquers an area, extracts all natural resources, and moves on. Actual tribal societies are a lot better at keeping the balance.

You mean the same in balance tribal societies that ate all of the megafauna of North America and Australia? :smalltongue:


After all, no one ever hunted wolves and mountain lions into extinction/near extinction for thousands of years before settlers showed up on the continent.

Wolves and mountain lions do not naturally prey on humans.

Humans would not settle for being prey animals to a predator unless they couldn't take that predator out. They especially wouldn't proliferate in an area where they're prey.

[Marnath]

You mean the same in balance tribal societies that ate all of the megafauna of North America and Australia? :smalltongue:

Say what?


Wolves and mountain lions do not naturally prey on humans.

Neither do dinosaurs.:smallwink:

*edit: Obviously it is beyond these nomads abilities to hunt down the dangerous ones. Why the heck do you think they run away?

*edit2: Maybe a rite of passage into adulthood/being a warrior is to successfully hunt down and kill a dangerous predator as part of a group. It keeps the population at levels where you can get away with living around them without running into them all the time, and you get useful practice fighting.

[Coidzor]

Say what? Yeah, North America and Australia had megafauna until the early humans that migrated to the respective continents killed and ate them into extinction. Giant Kangaroos and one or two other things on Australia and I can't remember what exactly on North America. So, yeah, humans are humans.


Neither do dinosaurs.:smallwink:

Well, it's at least listed as not uncommon for several of the ones in the various Monster Manuals. Whereas wolves we have... well, examples and memories and modern day evidence of how they interact with man.


*edit: Obviously it is beyond these nomads abilities to hunt down the dangerous ones. Why the heck do you think they run away?

Hence the straining of credibility aside from the really nasty ones who'd be the sort of things peeps become heroes for taking out.

Also, you wouldn't get many barbarians from a race of people who have more in common with rabbits than humans.

[Tvtyrant]

Say what?



The balance thing was after they wiped out all of the food. There were gigantic animals in both the Americas and Australia, and they all went extinct under the wave of hungry human dinner forks.

[Marnath]

Hence the straining of credibility aside from the really nasty ones who'd be the sort of things peeps become heroes for taking out.

Also, you wouldn't get many barbarians from a race of people who have more in common with rabbits than humans.

I'm really not seeing the strain on credibility here.

What do you mean people that have more in common with rabbits than humans?

[Coidzor]

What do you mean people that have more in common with rabbits than humans?

That they spend so much of their lives running away from larger predators.

[Quietus]

I'm really not seeing the strain on credibility here.

What do you mean people that have more in common with rabbits than humans?

I think they're referring to the fact that part of the reason these nomads took up riding was to run away from dinosaurs that were hunting them. My line of thought on that is that when you're looking at CR 3 creatures that hunt in packs, do you REALLY want to hang around and see if your group of villagers can take out the pack, or would it just be easier to have everyone jump on their horses and ride off?

If they were to see one of them on its own, they might try and take it down for food and/or bragging rights if they were cocky. But generally, anything that's likely able to take a person out on its own in one pounce, they're going to try and avoid having packs of them chasing them.

[Coidzor]

I think they're referring to the fact that part of the reason these nomads took up riding was to run away from dinosaurs that were hunting them. My line of thought on that is that when you're looking at CR 3 creatures that hunt in packs, do you REALLY want to hang around and see if your group of villagers can take out the pack, or would it just be easier to have everyone jump on their horses and ride off?

Villagers? Really?

[Tvtyrant]

Also, in real life the rules are different then in D&D. For instance, if I stick a burning brand in somethings face in real life it runs like heck. In D&D it makes a full round attack next round.

Other instances:

In real life humans have persistence hunting to outmatch their prey. In D&D the prey probably has a better run speed AND more con then a human.

Animal claws don't go through metal armor in real life unless its freakishly huge. Even Polar Bears couldn't get through plate mail (you would die anyway from the battering, but the claws wouldn't pen)

[Quietus]

Villagers? Really?

Nomads, whatever. Honestly, I'm tired, and it's showing in my lack of using the exact correct word to refer to "That group of people". No, not villagers, they moved with the herds so villages didn't really happen. Nomads, or whatever the correct term is. :smalltongue:

With that, thanks for the input guys.. I'm interested in any other ideas/opinions that can be brought up, but for now, my tiredness is affecting my ability to write, so it's time to sleep.

[Lev]

Horse + Dinosaur?

Would that be a horsesaurus or would it be a dinotaur?

Anyway, horses plus dinosaurs is fine, just tweak the breeding rate of the dinosaurs off until the raptor gank squads don't kill them all off.

Raptors are SCARY.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

I think that sounds amazing. It's a creative setting that seems like it would be a blast to play.

[Esser-Z]

Dinosaurs are inherently awesome. Therefore, the idea works.

[Amiel]

Well, with one you probably wouldn't need the other; and if your setting features natural ecologies, the dinosaurs may well cause the extinction of horses, by way of consumption. The dinosaurs will certainly be happy, the horses less so.

More people should ride dinosaurs :)

[LordBlades]

Aren't the bipedal, herbivorous horse-equivalent mounts of the talenta halflings in the ECS as well? You checked that and the MM3 out, Quietus?

Yup, there are at least 3 types of dinosaurs detailed as mounts for the Talenta halflings. At least one (fastieth) is herbivorous and horse-like.

[Marnath]

Yup, there are at least 3 types of dinosaurs detailed as mounts for the Talenta halflings. At least one (fastieth) is herbivorous and horse-like.

Yeah, but it's speed is 50. He was hoping for something that can outrun dangerous dinosaurs. Light horse can do that, at 60.

[Felhammer]

IMO the order of cool goes like this:

Horses < Raptors < Nightmares < Triceratops < Hellcats < Tyrannosaurus Rexes

So... Yes Dinosaurs are awesome and you should totally use them.

[TheThan]

Cadillacs and dinosaurs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9c2K4Jl5LI )
Dino riders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpuhLkh358Y)
Thunderlizards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wfuz7FfM-I&feature=related )
Dinobot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5HT3y3d6Kk&feature=related)
watch part 3 also.

Yeah I’d say that dinosaurs are pretty awesome, no matter what other genre you combine them with.

[Amiel]

It may also depend on a bit on which iteration of horses you're planning on using.
Horses were initially originally approximately the size of a fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse); they probably made up for a deficiency of size with considerable running speed.

[Fhaolan]

It may also depend on a bit on which iteration of horses you're planning on using.
Horses were initially originally approximately the size of a fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse); they probably made up for a deficiency of size with considerable running speed.

Also note that the horses most modern people are used to are notably larger than the ones even in Victorian times. Horse breeding over the last 100 years or so has really focused on 'bigger is better'. So people tend to get a skewed idea of how big a 'big' horse is. Even the huge chargers used by armoured knights were small compared to the monsters we've got now-a-days pulling beer wagons in commercials.

[Marnath]

I believe he is refering to light horses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm#horseLight).

[hiryuu]

Cadillacs and dinosaurs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9c2K4Jl5LI )

Yeah I’d say that dinosaurs are pretty awesome, no matter what other genre you combine them with.

Best... cartoon... ever.

[Quietus]

They're plotting against us, for one.



Well, that's one way to flip the paradigm between half-orcs and half-elves upside down, I must say...

Aren't the bipedal, herbivorous horse-equivalent mounts of the talenta halflings in the ECS as well? You checked that and the MM3 out, Quietus?

Actually, I just checked the MM3, got one .. well, yesterday actually. Very neat stuff, I will definitely be seeing fleshrakers and swindlespitters in my campaign at the very least. Probably not battletitans, since it's a fairly "low level" world - the most powerful NPCs I've got pseudo-statted in my head top out around level 13, and your average NPC is level 1. These nomads will probably be a little above that, level 2 or 3 for the exceptional ones, given the dangers they face on an occasional basis.

As to the ECS, I don't have access to that, unfortunately. Also, since I have a crazy plan to eventually publish my setting, probably in an online way via a wiki or something, I'd rather not draw from other, more established settings. Of course, this will probably never happen, but it's a fun thing to think about.

[Tiki Snakes]

Also, in real life the rules are different then in D&D. For instance, if I stick a burning brand in somethings face in real life it runs like heck. In D&D it makes a full round attack next round.

Other instances:

In real life humans have persistence hunting to outmatch their prey. In D&D the prey probably has a better run speed AND more con then a human.

Animal claws don't go through metal armor in real life unless its freakishly huge. Even Polar Bears couldn't get through plate mail (you would die anyway from the battering, but the claws wouldn't pen)

I'm not so sure that plate mail would do very much against a Polar Bear. Maybe in the sense that them getting their claws through the metal won't happen, perhaps. But with basic plate mail, they're pretty much going to peel you like a banana.

[Lev]

Cadillacs and dinosaurs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9c2K4Jl5LI )
Dino riders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpuhLkh358Y)
Thunderlizards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wfuz7FfM-I&feature=related )
Dinobot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5HT3y3d6Kk&feature=related)
watch part 3 also.

Yeah I’d say that dinosaurs are pretty awesome, no matter what other genre you combine them with.
Nice Cads and Dinos toon, my friend has a red one just like that.

Oh man, I forgot how terrible Dinobot's sword is... though I guess it could work like a gyroscopic estoc?

[Quietus]

Nice Cads and Dinos toon, my friend has a red one just like that.

Oh man, I forgot how terrible Dinobot's sword is... though I guess it could work like a gyroscopic estoc?

It's like hitting things with a stick that spins! How is that NOT able to cut something? :smalltongue:

At any rate, thanks for the opinions guys - I think I'm going to stick with the horses, and add in some MM3 dinosaurs. I was looking for smaller dinos to fill in that scavenger schtick, and if nothing else, swindlespitters would work. Plus, who doesn't love fleshrakers?

I'm still open to suggestions, things you'd like to see in a setting that included that sort of thing, and other related banter.. or discussion of how awesome/stupid other dinosaur-mix genres have turned out. That sword hurts my head when I think about it too much..

[grimbold]

this could be the best idea ever
if implemented properly
im thinking like horse riding dinosaur slaying native americans

[Esser-Z]

Nice Cads and Dinos toon, my friend has a red one just like that.

Oh man, I forgot how terrible Dinobot's sword is... though I guess it could work like a gyroscopic estoc?

I imagine it works similarly to vibroblades and stuff. Or is some super space material!

[The Big Dice]

I'm not so sure that plate mail would do very much against a Polar Bear. Maybe in the sense that them getting their claws through the metal won't happen, perhaps. But with basic plate mail, they're pretty much going to peel you like a banana.

A polar bear can punch through four feet of solid ice to get to the yummy seal hiding under there. I don't think your plate mail is going to be a problem...

[Coidzor]

Yes, going anywhere near a bear is asking for your face ripped off. Hence why things like nets, dogs, and ranged weaponry have been used against bears traditionally.

[Marnath]

I tried to find evidence for or against using armor against bears, but I found absolutely nothing, aside from some idiot who went bankrupt trying to design a bear suit, but never tested it against bears. Nothing at all on the effects of animals versus plate armor.

[Quietus]

I tried to find evidence for or against using armor against bears, but I found absolutely nothing, aside from some idiot who went bankrupt trying to design a bear suit, but never tested it against bears. Nothing at all on the effects of animals versus plate armor.

I think we've found our new subject for this thread!

Horse-riding bears hunting bear-riding dinosaurs across the back of a giant land-borne shark wearing plate mail, GO!

[Marnath]

I think we've found our new subject for this thread!

Horse-riding bears hunting bear-riding dinosaurs across the back of a giant land-borne shark wearing plate mail, GO!

O.o

...What? I don't see how that follows what I said, really.

[Quietus]

O.o

...What? I don't see how that follows what I said, really.

It doesn't. It amused me, though.

[Tiki Snakes]

I tried to find evidence for or against using armor against bears, but I found absolutely nothing, aside from some idiot who went bankrupt trying to design a bear suit, but never tested it against bears. Nothing at all on the effects of animals versus plate armor.

I've actually come across Troy Hurburtise (Can't remember exact name spelling) several times before now.

Essentially, there are two things I'd like to mention here; He did infact test one of his suits against a Kodiak Bear, the closest thing to a Polar Bear basically. With no-one inside it, and it wasn't the most advanced version. It was only nigh indestructable, with the joints protected by chainmail. Good chainmail. The bear essentially brushed that stuff aside like it was cobwebs.

He also tried on numerous occaisions to test it against actual bears in the wild.
But they basically wanted nothing to do with it. Wouldn't come within a mile or more of it. In a sense, it was a pretty reliable protection. The main problem is, the 'final', fully solid form of it was basically power armour. Without the power. Not exactly mobile. But, yeah, laughed at high powered rifles, flamethrowers, basically you name it.

No idea how many times he went bankrupt, but I think that was later, when he designed a more flexible suit for use in warfare, rather than for studying bears. Not entirely sure about this new line of suits, (the Trojan, amusingly enough), but it looks if anything loopier than his old 'Ursus' line, with the benefit of being light enough to move in. Will never see use in actual combat, but seems pretty cool in a mad scientist kind of way.

And yeah, really. He's quite, quite mad.

[Lev]

I imagine it works similarly to vibroblades and stuff. Or is some super space material!

Yeah, when you work in metals like adamantium I think we can take traditional schools of thought for weapon metallurgy out of the question.

Hell, it might even be using magnetic field principles to mess with their circuits on hit.

[dgnslyr]

YES TO DINOSAURS.

Horses are meh-ish when there are dinosaurs around, though. Maybe homebrew stats for a large, fast, herbivorous dinosaur? Other than that, it sounds pretty solid. And I don't see a problem with barbarians constantly on the run from predators. Icewind Dale was full of nasty, people-eating things, and it pumped out barbarians just fine.

Also, for some reason, when I saw the link to Light Horse, I immediately thought of Tron's light bikes, only instead of a bike, a horse. There's definitely something wrong with me...

[Amiel]

Tangentially, would you be inclined to include dinosaur-horse hybrids?

[Fouredged Sword]

If the preditors can run 60, it makes sence that the prey can run around 50, as predetors can oftine run faster then thier prey. This would also help prevent the humans from just rounding up packs of raptors and killing them. The humans have to use guile and numbers to suround the beasts.

Plus I have the image of a human rideing a horse and throwing spears at a dinosaur with an spearthrower. 20 or so humans could take down a very large target by playing hit and run with ranged weapons, and mounted feats let you take a double move and still attack. The humans can't outrun you, but they can keep you in range for long enough to turn you into a spear filled corpse.

[hamishspence]

Other ways of doing it- the predator has the Run feat, Endurance- and a higher constitution than the prey- so it runs the prey down even though the prey is the same speed.

[MarkusWolfe]

This sounds kind of like the talenta plains in Eberron, where halfling barbarians tame velociraptors to ride. I don't know of any horsemen on their actual territory, but there are horser using groups somewhere on the continent.

So I'd be fine with it.

You mean they tame tyrannosaurs. Maybe velociraptors on the side, but the tyrannosaurs are they're famous for.

[hamishspence]

The clawfoot is actually closer to Deinonychus in size.

When The Eberron Campaign Setting came out, the MM had Deinonychus as Large and Megaraptor as Huge.

So, Clawfoots were considered to be synonymus with Velociraptor, and set as Medium.

Later, the MM errata revised Deinonychus down to Medium (maybe to more closely match the real animal, which was a lot lighter than the book version, and pretty compact.)

But the clawfoot wasn't revised downward to match.

A real velociraptor is estimated to have weighed about 30-odd pounds, and be 1.5 ft tall at the hip- rather small compared to typical Medium animals.

[Esser-Z]

Note that what people typically think of as a velociraptor or deinonychus (I imagine many people don't really distinguish the two too well), IE the Jurassic Park or Beast Wars versions, is much closer to the more recently discovered Utahraptor, which is pretty much the classic raptor at the size people think of it as.

Of course, they all had feathers, so. :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

The Jurassic Park beastie is somewhere between Deinonychus and Utahraptor in size- but much closer to Deinonychus.

In the books, its weight was somewhere between 200 and 300 pounds- quite a bit heavier than the current estimates of around 160 pounds, but far short of the weight of Utahraptor.

And in the movie, its height, length, bulk, etc are close to those of Deinonychus- only a little larger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinonychus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utahraptor

Interesting note- at the time 3.0 came out, Megaraptor was suspected to be a dromaeosaur (or at least, the fact that it was not, had not reached the public consciousness) which may be why WoTC used its name.

Later, it was found to be an allosauroid with huge hand claws rather than toe claws:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaraptor

[grimbold]

Cadillacs and dinosaurs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9c2K4Jl5LI )


Yeah I’d say that dinosaurs are pretty awesome, no matter what other genre you combine them with.

brilliant
but why would there be cadillacs from the 70s in the 26th century?
and does evolution work that fasT?

[Marnath]

You mean they tame tyrannosaurs. Maybe velociraptors on the side, but the tyrannosaurs are they're famous for.

No, I don't. A tyrannosaur is way too big to use as a mount when you're a halfing.

[hamishspence]

No, I don't. A tyrannosaur is way too big to use as a mount when you're a halfing.

Rulewise, there's no "maximum size difference" on a mount- and it's common in D&D fiction for a Medium humanoid to ride a Gargantuan or Colossal dragon.

[Marnath]

Rulewise, there's no "maximum size difference" on a mount- and it's common in D&D fiction for a Medium humanoid to ride a Gargantuan or Colossal dragon.

They very specifically ride the smaller dinosaurs, fastieths and clawfoots.

[thompur]

Another example of Horses & Dinosaurs: the 1969 movie "The Valley of Gwangi". Granted it's Cowboys & Dinos, but bit's a lot of fun.

[dgnslyr]

No, I don't. A tyrannosaur is way too big to use as a mount when you're a halfing.

A tyrannosaurus isn't used as a mount. With something that big, it would probably be a war beast, with a platform on its back for archers and javelin-throwers, like a war elephant. Hrm, I'm not sure which is more dangerous, a war tyrannosaurus rex or a war elephant? Both are pretty bloodthirsty, but the elephant has those fearsome tusks. Any opinions?

[Marnath]

A tyrannosaurus isn't used as a mount. With something that big, it would probably be a war beast, with a platform on its back for archers and javelin-throwers, like a war elephant. Hrm, I'm not sure which is more dangerous, a war tyrannosaurus rex or a war elephant? Both are pretty bloodthirsty, but the elephant has those fearsome tusks. Any opinions?

The ECS doesn't make any mention of the talenta barbarian tribes training tyrannosaurs. It says they work with the smaller dinosaurs of the plains.

[Coidzor]

A tyrannosaurus isn't used as a mount. With something that big, it would probably be a war beast, with a platform on its back for archers and javelin-throwers, like a war elephant. Hrm, I'm not sure which is more dangerous, a war tyrannosaurus rex or a war elephant? Both are pretty bloodthirsty, but the elephant has those fearsome tusks. Any opinions?

Well, an elephant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elephant.htm)can trample, targeting reflex saves instead of AC. It also is a quadroped so it can carry more weight on its back in terms of the howdah(thing the passengers would be in) and can alternate between 3 attacks or 1 attack on a full attack.

Tyrannosaurus Rex (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#tyrannosaurus) has the HD and HD-derived benefits advantage but only a single attack targeting AC, though it can swallow enemies whole.

1 strength bonus and 1 AC in favor of the elephant, 1 wisdom bonus in favor of the T.Rex, warbeast template or no.

[Marnath]

I can't find it now, but I swear I read somewhere that a T-rex can carry as much as a quadruped because of how powerful it's legs are.:smallconfused:

Maybe I'm just going crazy? Or have you guys read that somewhere too?

[hamishspence]

Can't remember anything about T. rex specifically having that- but in Arms & Equipment Guide, Megaraptor & Deinonychus are specifically called out as being able to carry weight as if they were quadrupeds.

[The Big Dice]

I want Wexter as my T-Rex steed.

http://ypcomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/wexterProgress.jpg

[hiryuu]

brilliant
but why would there be cadillacs from the 70s in the 26th century?
and does evolution work that fasT?

There was a mysterious environmental disaster that destroyed much of the world. Most of humanity hid in underground vaults. The mechanics that worked the oxygen recyclers and the life support machines formed a sort of mystic tribal cult that worshiped mysterious creatures deep within the Earth, and according to legend, struck a bargain with those beings, which led the people out of the underground tombs to a changed world. The mechanics bred amongst each other, forming the old blood, and in accordance with the telepathic beings with which they had formed the pact, rebuilt ancient machines to run on organic fuels, doing their best to lead by example, working with the world, instead of against it.