Murphy's Law 5: To Comic 100...And Beyond!

[Marnath]

Of those two options, I think I'll take "horrible" and add "but true" to it.

*edit^: yeah, what she said. And then you feel bad for laughing. :smallamused:

[HalfTangible]

Of those two options, I think I'll take "horrible" and add "but true" to it.

*edit^: yeah, what she said. And then you feel bad for laughing. :smallamused:

inorite? :smallfrown:

[Dark Faun]

Stakes are another example of mixing the agreeable with the useful; ashes are a formidable fertilizer as well.

And as religious fanatics, the Kagoans probably love stakes. :smallwink:

[HalfTangible]

Stakes are another example of mixing the agreeable with the useful; ashes are a formidable fertilizer as well.

And as religious fanatics, the Kagoans probably love stakes. :smallwink:

What does religious fanaticism have to do with steak? >.>

Wrong kind of stake. XD

[blackjack217]

What does religious fanaticism have to do with steak? >.>

Wrong kind of stake. XD

Depends on the religion. :smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

Depends on the religion. :smallbiggrin:

She didn't mention any specific religion. She said 'religion'.

But this is dangerous talk. Now for something completely different! =D

I like puppies! Aren't they just adorable!

[mucat]

But this is dangerous talk. Now for something completely different! =D

I like puppies! Aren't they just adorable!

And great fertilizer!
(ducks.)

[HalfTangible]

And great fertilizer makers!
Fixed that for you :smalltongue:

[The_Admiral]

Have you ever seen rice patties?

Patties?It is called Padi

[Mina Kobold]

Patties?It is called Padi

Paddies actually (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paddy)

Padi is Malay for rice, paddy is a field for rice :smallsmile:

And now you know! :smalltongue:

[Marnath]

Uh-oh, Coffee's account is over bandwidth. All her stuff is offline. :smalleek:

[blackjack217]

Uh-oh, Coffee's account is over bandwidth. All her stuff is offline. :smalleek:

Darth Vader said it best: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[CoffeeIncluded]

*Sigh* Dammit. Don't worry guys, it'll be back on the 20th.

And tomorrow's the 19th. Crap.

Okay, update FIRST THING SATURDAY MORNING.

[Tulio d Bard]

Couldn't she use deviantart?

[CWater]

Oh...I won't be seeing it until Sunday evening then.:smallfrown: We're going to visit my grandparents for the weekend and they have no computer... Oh well, good things can wait:smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

If it rolls over at midnight, then I'll post it at 12:01 Saturday. Sorry, CWater. I'm pretty frustrated at this too.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hey! what happened to my sig????:smalltongue:

Don't worry coffee, I am sure we can wait for the issue to be resolved.

[mucat]

Hey! what happened to my sig????:smalltongue:

Don't worry coffee, I am sure we can wait for the issue to be resolved.
If your sig links directly to an image on Coffee's Photobucket account, you might want to put a copy of the image on your own account, and link there instead. It'll help cut down the bandwidth used on her account.

(Right now, every time a board member sees your sig, it counts against Coffee's bandwidth limit.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

:smalleek: Didn't know that... will fix immediatly... though I suppose I would need to wait till Coffee recovers her bandwith to fix that.

Sorry coffee, I swear I didn't know.

[CoffeeIncluded]

:smalleek: Didn't know that... will fix immediatly... though I suppose I would need to wait till Coffee recovers her bandwith to fix that.

Sorry coffee, I swear I didn't know.

I didn't know either. Thanks. :smallsmile:

[Dusk Eclipse]

I didn't know either. Thanks. :smallsmile:

Hey, I can still advertise Murphy's Law, but not as flashy or attention grabbing like with the banner

[Silverraptor]

You could just change the font, size, and color of the words in the link to look more flashy. I did that with the paladin academy link in my signature.

[Cizak]

Can't see the comics anymore... Bandwidth exceeded.

[Marnath]

Can't see the comics anymore... Bandwidth exceeded.

Yes, this has been established. She had this to say on page 9:


*Sigh* Dammit. Don't worry guys, it'll be back on the 20th.

And tomorrow's the 19th. Crap.

Okay, update FIRST THING SATURDAY MORNING.

[Zanaril]

Just temporarily use a different photobucket account, it only takes about five minutes to set one up. Or any other image hosting site.

[The_Admiral]

Paddies actually (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paddy)

Padi is Malay for rice, paddy is a field for rice :smallsmile:

And now you know! :smalltongue:

Thats strange i have always called it padi

[Dark Faun]

To go away from the correct definition of ricefields and back on topic; one day or another Coffee, you'll have to either upgrade your Photobucket account or migrate elsewhere. I doubt your current monthly bandwidth will be enough when you have 150+ pages.

[CoffeeIncluded]

To go away from the correct definition of ricefields and back on topic; one day or another Coffee, you'll have to either upgrade your Photobucket account or migrate elsewhere. I doubt your current monthly bandwidth will be enough when you have 150+ pages.

I know. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. The prequel...Is gonna bump up the rating a bit; I may have to move then.

[Dark Faun]

Why do I have the feeling I know exactly what will cause the rating upgrade as well as whose advice it spawned from?

[CoffeeIncluded]

*Sigh* I finished the comic, but I can't upload it until midnight. 5 hours, 22 minutes to go. :smallfrown:

[blackjack217]

*Sigh* I finished the comic, but I can't upload it until midnight. 5 hours, 22 minutes to go. :smallfrown:

You could always make another one while you wait.:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Lycan 01]

You could always make another one while you wait.:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

This man, he is smart. You should listen to him. :smallbiggrin:

[Worlok]

Seriously. :smallbiggrin:

[Marnath]

Banners are back up, looks like we're in business. :smallsmile:

[The_Admiral]

Thats strange i still see the photobucket thing

[blackjack217]

same for me

[CoffeeIncluded]

It's gonna take a little while for things to show. Screw it; I'm posting it anyway. It should all definitely be visible within the next few hours, though I'll be asleep. Sorry about this, guys.

#97: What Did You Think
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/WhatDidYouThink.png

[Marnath]

Apparently they're going to come back one by one. O.o
I guess I was too quick to celebrate. :smallwink:

[HalfTangible]

It's gonna take a little while for things to show. Screw it; I'm posting it anyway. It should all definitely be visible within the next few hours, though I'll be asleep. Sorry about this, guys.

#97: What Did You Think
[IMG]http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/HelpHelpTheyreBeingRepressed.png[IMG]
The image location shows the title from the last comic, coffee =/

[zimmerwald1915]

#97 looks suspiciously similar to #96.

[Asta Kask]

#97 looks suspiciously similar to #96.

Christmas reruns start early this year. :smallwink:

[Anitar]

Found it. (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/WhatDidYouThink.png) minimumlength10characters

[CoffeeIncluded]

Sorry, it was late and I'm sick. Fixing it now.

[John Cribati]

Lloyd has an Epiphany. A sad one.

[HalfTangible]

... the color of their blood.

Look, i know paladins are supposed to check everything they do to make sure they're doing the right thing (which only Lloyd seems to be doing here) but COME ON! The color of their blood?

Lloyd, there is something very weird in your head >.>

[Marnath]

I has a sad now.:smallfrown:
That went about how I figured it would.

[Geno9999]

... the color of their blood.

Look, i know paladins are supposed to check everything they do to make sure they're doing the right thing (which only Lloyd seems to be doing here) but COME ON! The color of their blood?

Lloyd, there is something very weird in your head >.>

Actually, I find it fitting.
All of Lloyd's life he was taught that the Plavaan was sub-human, that they were evil, that they were below human. By realizing that they have the same color of blood, he realized the truth that Shakespeare once wrote in a play:

I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands,
organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same
food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,
heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter
and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If
you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the
rest, we will resemble you in that.
Though, in this case, replace "Jew" with "Palvaan" and "Christian" with "Kago."

[super dark33]

Violance..... doesnt solve probloms, but it realy helps solving them!

[Marnath]

Violance..... doesnt solve probloms, but it realy helps solving them!

If you've ever heard "peace through superior firepower" this is the sort of approach they're refering to. Everything is peacful when everyone who disagrees with you is dead. :smalleek:

Also known as "kill them all and let God sort them out."

[Dark Faun]

... the color of their blood.

Look, i know paladins are supposed to check everything they do to make sure they're doing the right thing (which only Lloyd seems to be doing here) but COME ON! The color of their blood?

Lloyd, there is something very weird in your head >.>
I agree. I'm sure, say, Xykon had red blood too before becoming a lich. :smalltongue:

[mucat]

... the color of their blood.

Look, i know paladins are supposed to check everything they do to make sure they're doing the right thing (which only Lloyd seems to be doing here) but COME ON! The color of their blood?

Lloyd, there is something very weird in your head >.>
Not quite sure I get your point...but if it helps, Lloyd isn't literally saying it matters what color a Plavaans's blood is. He's being bitterly metaphorical. What woke him up isn't the evidence of hemoglobin-based oxygen transport; it's the way Kylie is trying to protect and comfort her baby sister, almost a if she were a person or something...

So as the implications sink in and he realizes how wrong he's been about everything, he says "What was I thinking, that they don't bleed just like me?" As Geno said, the metaphor was good enough for Shakespeare...and in this case, Lloyd's hands are covered with evidence that it's literally true as well. :smallfrown:

[super dark33]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

[blackjack217]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

Who said they were evil?

[super dark33]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

[blackjack217]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey
Really? then what about this guy:
http://ghostknight.net/dndrealm/dnd/images/DrizztDoUrden.jpg

[mucat]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

Your distinction between "good" and "right" here is entirely unclear; you're not making much sense.

If you're trying to make a point about how you like things to work in fictional stories...well, I suppose we have very different taste in fiction. If you're describing your beliefs about how similar situations should be handled in the real world, then I am fairly sure you just stated yourself to be evil-aligned in real life. (Only "fairly sure," because your writing is unclear and I might be mistaking what you are trying to say.)


EDIT: Ah, ninja'd by another post which makes it more clear what you mean:


Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

Well, Drow don't exist in real life, so if the extent of your statement is that you don't like Drow, there's no point in arguing over fiction. If you are saying that the "X" in your statement could be filled in by any real-life group of people who one society considers "evil", then you are condoning heinous crimes, and should rethink your position.

[Asta Kask]

Really? then what about this guy:
http://ghostknight.net/dndrealm/dnd/images/DrizztDoUrden.jpg

Drizzt is exceptional. For him to be the exception to the rule, there has to be a rule.

[blackjack217]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey
He is implying all drow are automatically evil no matter the circumstances, therefore the drizzt response counters his argument. Also for this setting WoC (word of coffee) has clearly stated that the drow and co have a completely unearned reputation.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Drizzt is exceptional. For him to be the exception to the rule, there has to be a rule.

Yes Drizz't is exceptional... in the Forgotten Realm cosmology; but in Aquear (SP?) I haven't seen anything that implies that Drow are evil (their goddess action notwithstanding; if we could judge accurately a race because of how their god acts, then all Dwarves would be as stupid and irresponsible as Thor).

[Devmaar]

Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

That's not how it works. In D&D alignment is both measurable and tangible. An individual's view, be they a deity or not, makes no difference. You seem to be implying that if two clerics of different gods used detect spells on the same subject, that subject could detect as being good, lawful, chaotic and evil depending on the gods' differing points of view. It would also mean that a cleric devoted to a cause rather than a deity would always have their detect spells confirm their pre-existing beliefs, and they could smite evil against anyone who they vaguely thought might perhaps be a little bit evil maybe.

[Lix Lorn]

Drizzt is exceptional. For him to be the exception to the rule, there has to be a rule.
Oh? Rich Burlew begs to differ. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html) :smallwink:

Also, from experience I'm going to add that superdark is acting evil to get a rise.

[Marnath]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

I have no idea what you're saying, is there any way you could phrase it coherently for me?

[Lycan 01]

Don't kill da behbeh! Don't do it Lloyd! :smalleek:

[Asta Kask]

It will grow up to be a drow soldier. Slice it! Dice it!

[Mina Kobold]

Ugh thats enough!

Paladins Killing civilians for kago, because kago said so, is a GOOD act! not the RIGHT act! even if he did checked them for evil/non evil they would show up Evil and he did GOOD, not right

OBJECTION!

Obeying the laws (what Kago's government say) is a lawful act, lawfulness are by definition in the standard alignment system NOT the same as goodness.

They would not show up as Evil unless they had committed more deeds universally accepted as evil than good, I see no evidence that this is the case.

The defence rests.

Edit:

Post Scriptum:


Drow=Evil. no matter what you say. if a paladin and his deity belive that X is evil, then X is evil for that socitey

I see no evidence for this either, the defence rests again.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Not quite sure I get your point...but if it helps, Lloyd isn't literally saying it matters what color a Plavaans's blood is. He's being bitterly metaphorical. What woke him up isn't the evidence of hemoglobin-based oxygen transport; it's the way Kylie is trying to protect and comfort her baby sister, almost a if she were a person or something...

So as the implications sink in and he realizes how wrong he's been about everything, he says "What was I thinking, that they don't bleed just like me?" As Geno said, the metaphor was good enough for Shakespeare...and in this case, Lloyd's hands are covered with evidence that it's literally true as well. :smallfrown:

BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.

[Asta Kask]

Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood

[Marnath]

BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?

[mucat]

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?

For the most part, but she's got a moral blind spot when it comes to Plavaans.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?

Who absolutely despises the Plavaan for reasons which Janine explained. They killed Salblaze. She'll never forgive them.

[blackjack217]

Who absolutely despises the Plavaan for reasons which Janine explained. They killed Salblaze. She'll never forgive them.

Seems like a very Greek interpretation of gods. (not any morally better, just more powerful)

[mucat]

Seems like a very Greek interpretation of gods. (not any morally better, just more powerful)

Or a Discworld interpretation (where the gods actually share a lot in common with the Greek view.)

I like settings where the gods, if any, have as many flaws and foibles as any human. Mortals should be able to strive to be morally superior to their gods. That way, even if the gods turn out to be fictional, they will have inspired their followers to become better people, rather than lulling them into moral stagnation because "the high priest says the gods approve of what I'm doing."

But I digress, and dangerously so...

[Lix Lorn]

Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood Blood
For the blood god?


BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.
AHA
So, confirmation that Astrid agrees. Intriguing!
So now the question is, why hasn't LLOYD fallen for forgiving them? Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

[zimmerwald1915]

Actually, I find it fitting.
All of Lloyd's life he was taught that the Plavaan was sub-human, that they were evil, that they were below human. By realizing that they have the same color of blood, he realized the truth that Shakespeare once wrote in a play.
Of course, Shylock was a sick sonofagun (most Venetians in Shakespeare's plays are), and Shakespeare was mocking his pretensions towards the moral highground. Shakespeare was no Ben Jonson, but Shylock's speech...isn't meant to be taken seriously.

[Marnath]

Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

I like this theory, a lot. :smallsmile:

[mucat]

So, confirmation that Astrid agrees. Intriguing!
So now the question is, why hasn't LLOYD fallen for forgiving them? Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.
I like this interpretation; Astrid herself is conflicted. That has a Discworld feel to it as well: a god can be prodded into "growing up" by the realization that "my followers are better people than I am."
(waves to Om.)



...which has led, across the mulitverse, to men and women of tremendous brilliance and empathy devoting their entire lives to the service of deities who couldn't beat them at a quiet game of dominoes.

For example, Sister Sestina of Quirm defied the wrath of a local king and walked unharmed across a bed of coals and propounded a philosophy of sensible ethics on behalf of a goddess whose only real interest was in hairstyles, and Brother Zephilite of Klatch left his vast estates and his family and spent his life ministering to the sick and poor on behalf of the invisible god F'rum, generally considered unable, should he have a backside, to find it with both hands, should he have hands.

Gods never need to be very bright when there are humans around to be it for them.

[RdMarquis]

So now the question is, why hasn't LLOYD fallen for forgiving them? Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

Sounds good. Astrid seems as much a person, as she is a goddess. Looks like being close to all powerful doesn't mean you can be still seriously flawed. I'm reminded of a quote from one of the Harry Potter books (from Albus Dumbledore, I think) stating that being smarter makes your mistakes correspondingly larger.

It's a relief to see that Lloyd stopped short of killing Kylie and her sister. I kind of assumed the worse when he chased them into the house.

[mucat]

It's a relief to see that Lloyd stopped short of killing Kylie and her sister. I kind of assumed the worse when he chased them into the house.

Well, we knew Kylie would survive (or at least be raised), since she's alive in the present-day story.



Of course, Shylock was a sick sonofagun (most Venetians in Shakespeare's plays are), and Shakespeare was mocking his pretensions towards the moral highground. Shakespeare was no Ben Jonson, but Shylock's speech...isn't meant to be taken seriously.

I think Shylock's speech is absolutely meant to be taken seriously (and has been, ever since Shakespeare's day.) That's onw thing I love about Shakespeare's villains: just because they're the bad guy, doesn't mean they can't be absolutely right about something.

(And conversely, just because they're right, doesn't mean they won't turn around and act like hypocritical jerks.)

[Geno9999]

Of course, Shylock was a sick sonofagun (most Venetians in Shakespeare's plays are), and Shakespeare was mocking his pretensions towards the moral highground. Shakespeare was no Ben Jonson, but Shylock's speech...isn't meant to be taken seriously.

Ah, but just because you are the villain doesn't negate any of the good points that they bring up. There are times where you can get away with villains doing stuff for the Evulz (see: Joker), but often the best written villains are the ones where the audience can sympathize with his views and/or actions, making the villain more human.
Now, I can agree with you that Shylock is a bad guy, but he does bring up an excellent point about treatment of fellow human beings, one that I stop and realize that I actually agree with him.

[Mina Kobold]

Well, we knew Kylie would survive (or at least be raised), since she's alive in the present-day story.

How do we know she is alive? :smallamused:

This meeting may have deeper roots than any of us can imagine!

It could be... SPIDERS! :smalleek:

Giant, fluffy, large eyed, Disney-like spiders :eek:

[HalfTangible]

Actually, I find it fitting.
All of Lloyd's life he was taught that the Plavaan was sub-human, that they were evil, that they were below human. By realizing that they have the same color of blood, he realized the truth that Shakespeare once wrote in a play:

Not the whole 'they're the same as me' thing, i meant that he realized it through BLOOD, specifically.


If you've ever heard "peace through superior firepower" this is the sort of approach they're refering to. Everything is peacful when everyone who disagrees with you is dead. :smalleek:

Also known as "kill them all and let God sort them out."

No, 'peace through superior firepower' refers to the idea that if nobody WANTS to attack you, nobody WILL. And one way to do that is to make it so that any attack they send your way gets obliterated. Sun Tzu said something like that. Something like "The art of war lies not in relying on your enemy's lack of desire to attack, but in making your position unassailable"

[Anterean]

Why? I thought she was supposed to be a good goddess?
Who absolutely despises the Plavaan for reasons which Janine explained. They killed Salblaze. She'll never forgive them.

So she encourages genocide, that sorta rules out her being good doesn´t it ?

[Alagaesian]

So she encourages genocide, that sorta rules out her being good doesn´t it ?

Ah, she thinks that the Plaavan gods have killed Salblaze in cold blood. Those gods weren't there at the start of time - they were raised up by the Plaavans worshipping them. Therefore, she thinks that the Plaavan's goals coincide with their god's, making the Plaavan race evil enough to wipe off the face of the planet. Plus, in this war, they've been killing Kagoian soldiers who are only trying to do the "right thing."

Let's say a gang leader killed your best friend. The police come in and try to arrest the gang for murder, and a gunfight breaks out, killing gang members and policemen alike. You would be prejudiced to see the gang's side as the bad side because the leader shot your friend and you never learned why. You probably wouldn't be opposed to seeing the police hunt down and kill the rest of them.

Even if that gang had never done anything illegal and wasn't planning on it, you wouldn't know that. Maybe your friend was going to murder someone close to that gang leader. But since you don't know that, prejudice makes you view that gunfight as a gang shooting a bunch of innocent policemen. Instead, it could have started with a gang member trying to protect their leader from capital punishment, with revenge and self-defense killing accelerating fight.

What I'm trying to say is that everyone, even Astrid, can be influenced by their emotions. In her situation, she has enough reason to believe that the Plaavans are evil, so if her intent is to let her paladins wipe out this evil, she may still be considered on the Good side of the alignment spectrum. Besides, it's not as if Astrid is encouraging this genocide. She's letting others do it without objecting.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ah, she thinks that the Plaavan gods have killed Salblaze in cold blood. Those gods weren't there at the start of time - they were raised up by the Plaavans worshipping them. Therefore, she thinks that the Plaavan's goals coincide with their god's, making the Plaavan race evil enough to wipe off the face of the planet. Plus, in this war, they've been killing Kagoian soldiers who are only trying to do the "right thing."

Let's say a gang leader killed your best friend. The police come in and try to arrest the gang for murder, and a gunfight breaks out, killing gang members and policemen alike. You would be prejudiced to see the gang's side as the bad side because the leader shot your friend and you never learned why. You probably wouldn't be opposed to seeing the police hunt down and kill the rest of them.

Even if that gang had never done anything illegal and wasn't planning on it, you wouldn't know that. Maybe your friend was going to murder someone close to that gang leader. But since you don't know that, prejudice makes you view that gunfight as a gang shooting a bunch of innocent policemen. Instead, it could have started with a gang member trying to protect their leader from capital punishment, with revenge and self-defense killing accelerating fight.

What I'm trying to say is that everyone, even Astrid, can be influenced by their emotions. In her situation, she has enough reason to believe that the Plaavans are evil, so if her intent is to let her paladins wipe out this evil, she may still be considered on the Good side of the alignment spectrum. Besides, it's not as if Astrid is encouraging this genocide. She's letting others do it without objecting.

Yes! YES! You've got it!

[Lord Raziere]

So this whole thing started because no one has any idea what actually happened?

huh. fitting. in normal DnD, no one really has any idea why people are at war with other races either.

[HalfTangible]

In your gangfight scenario, however, you still have whatever crime led to capital punishment (for example) and the reason your close friend wanted to kill the gang leader to start with.

What i really want to know is why the Plavaan gods decided that murdering a random dragon (for whatever reason) was a good idea. That's where the whole thing started, really - their reasons for attacking. Or perhaps it started when Astrid decided to descend, if my guess on why they did it (spreading light to a land with dark-dwelling creatures) is correct.


So this whole thing started because no one has any idea what actually happened?

huh. fitting. in normal DnD, no one really has any idea why people are at war with other races either.

It started for the same reason every other sapient conflict in every story that didn't suck ever started: because both sides believed themselves in the right, even when they did wrong.

[Anterean]

What I'm trying to say is that everyone, even Astrid, can be influenced by their emotions. In her situation, she has enough reason to believe that the Plaavans are evil, so if her intent is to let her paladins wipe out this evil, she may still be considered on the Good side of the alignment spectrum. Besides, it's not as if Astrid is encouraging this genocide. She's letting others do it without objecting.

"All it takes for evil to succeed is good men to nothing".
But fair enough, I am still questioning, what led me into this to start with which is that paladins supposedly have to be good in Aquear, and Coffee has so far portrayed all paladins (apart from Lloyd) as hate filled, genocidal manics (yeah-yeah they have been brainwashed, by their deity no less, but they still have some responsibility for their actions).
Now I can understand them remaining paladins because they still have the support deity, but I have a hard time accepting them being good because well... the genocide

[Asta Kask]

genocide schmenocide...

[Draconi Redfir]

Not the whole 'they're the same as me' thing, i meant that he realized it through BLOOD, specifically.

he didn’t, he realized it through the Drow girl trying to protect the young baby Drow the same way any sane human woman would. He just used the Color of their blood as a metaphor for saying "oh dear Astrid, they are the same as us! Only the shell is different!"


In your gangfight scenario, however, you still have whatever crime led to capital punishment (for example) and the reason your close friend wanted to kill the gang leader to start with.

What i really want to know is why the Plavaan gods decided that murdering a random dragon (for whatever reason) was a good idea. That's where the whole thing started, really - their reasons for attacking. Or perhaps it started when Astrid decided to descend, if my guess on why they did it (spreading light to a land with dark-dwelling creatures) is correct.


We don’t know this part yet, considering we have only heard the Astrid side of the story. Now that the Drow girl is here, we might learn that Sailblaze was burning their crops by mistake, or that the Plavaan gods weren’t expecting Astrid, and upon seeing a large beast made of fire, assumed it was a demon and attacked it.

[Asta Kask]

What surprises me is that Astrid continues to grant Lloyd abilities. Seeing as he is violating a fairly central precept - the Plavaan races are evil.

[Devmaar]

What surprises me is that Astrid continues to grant Lloyd abilities. Seeing as he is violating a fairly central precept - the Plavaan races are evil.


Maybe Astrid recognises that his actions are correct, but can't bring herself to do the same.

Seems good to me

[super dark33]

OBJECTION!

I see no evidence for this either, the defence rests again.

if you need evidence then ill need to have permission to use IRL politics
(nazis thought jews are evil, so they killed jews, considering it a good act)

[Devmaar]

if you need evidence then ill need to have permission to use IRL politics
(nazis thought jews are evil, so they killed jews, considering it a good act)

As I said, just because the paladins consider what they're doing to be a good act, doesn't mean it is one.

[HalfTangible]

he didn’t, he realized it through the Drow girl trying to protect the young baby Drow the same way any sane human woman would. He just used the Color of their blood as a metaphor for saying "oh dear Astrid, they are the same as us! Only the shell is different!"

... >.>

:smallsigh: whatever. this ain't worth it.


We don’t know this part yet, considering we have only heard the Astrid side of the story.

Which is why i NOW WANT TO KNOW IT

[Asta Kask]

As I said, just because the paladins consider what they're doing to be a good act, doesn't mean it is one.

Exactly. In D&D, there is an ultimate standard of 'Good', regardless of what anyone (including deities) thinks about it. They can reject that standard, of course, but it doesn't change things. Exactly what falls under that standard is a question for the individual DM, but I think it's clear Coffee doesn't accept genocide as a 'Good' act. It is at best a good act. Or maybe even a good act.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The paladins are trained to be this way. And they're not the only paladins in Aequar, just the largest collective army on the continent of Nordica.

And it hasn't gotten into out-and-out genocide. Yet. Give it a few years without any changes and tossing a couple maniacs into power...

I'd like to think that at that point Astrid would go, "Hey, wait a minute..." but you know how you etch a groove so deep you can't get out of it...

[Asta Kask]

Yeah, remember - if she gets her power from her worshippers, and she suddenly reverses policy like this, half the church could desert. She might rationalize it to herself up to the point where the Leage of Good Gods turn up and says - "Shape up or ship out, you're turning Neutral (or even Evil)".

[Draconi Redfir]

Which is why i NOW WANT TO KNOW IT

and I’m sure we will. Now that we have a Drow with the group, she might be able to tell us the other half of the story. Otherwise Coffee will tell us the other half when it is the right time, just sit down, enjoy the story, and keep your pants on.
no seriously, keep them on. ick.

[HalfTangible]

and I’m sure we will. Now that we have a Drow with the group, she might be able to tell us the other half of the story. Otherwise Coffee will tell us the other half when it is the right time, just sit down, enjoy the story, and keep your pants on.
no seriously, keep them on. ick.

Yes. And i'm expressing my desire to hear it :smallannoyed: I don't think that's outside the societal norm.

[Dark Faun]

What I'm looking forward is this story evolving beyond a run-out-of-the-mill "racism is bad" lesson-teacher. Mind you, it's well-told so far, but every time the Plavaan issue is brought up I feel like I'm reading an imitation of Start of Darkness. It's got the same misled, racist paladins and the poor monsters thing going on.

[CoffeeIncluded]

It's not just racism. It's a whole mass self-delusion thing.

[Dark Faun]

That's what it's been coming off as to me so far.

[CoffeeIncluded]

That's what it's been coming off as to me so far.

It's also...I know just how much of an influence peer pressure and "I was just following orders" is--Take a look at the Milgram study.

But in the end, the choice is yours. It's just you.

[Dark Faun]

I know the choice is mine. And my usual response to these excuses is a vicious kick in the gonads, and more if the law allows it. But I feel Murphy's Law will spend its entirety being utterly anvilicious about the lessons it's ought to teach, instead of subtle.

[Asta Kask]

I don't know. Remember the Tinder arc. Is it right to slaughter people who are evil? Isn't that what laws are supposed to be about? These are fundamental questions of justice.

Socrates taught that it is unjust to harm others, even when they have hurt you. Was he right? He certainly would have made a lousy adventurer...

No, I have hope for this comic. Oterwise I'd stop reading it.

[HalfTangible]

My view: Justice is preventing harm from being committed in the future. Sometimes this means killing a man, sometimes it means keeping him locked up.

[Mina Kobold]

if you need evidence then ill need to have permission to use IRL politics
(nazis thought jews are evil, so they killed jews, considering it a good act)

We are not allowed to discuss real life politics.

But it still proves nothing, the belief that something is good does that change it's nature in a world where good and evil are more than just aspects of philosophy and culture.

IE the WoC.


My view: Justice is preventing harm from being committed in the future. Sometimes this means killing a man, sometimes it means keeping him locked up.

I go a bit beyond that: Justice should be about preventing harm and about creating good.

Which essentially means that if you kill him he can't be redeemed and used to make the world a better place.

But that's subjective.

[super dark33]

so this is it, me vs. evryone else.

Lloyd did what he feels right, not good. the drow are evil, for kagogian detect evil spells.

[Marnath]

so this is it, me vs. evryone else.

Lloyd did what he feels right, not good. the drow are evil, for kagogian detect evil spells.

I still have no idea what you're saying. The drow aren't evil, and Lloyd never scanned them with his detect evil.

[Anterean]

so this is it, me vs. evryone else.

Lloyd did what he feels right, not good. the drow are evil, for kagogian detect evil spells.

but only because in this world "Detect Evil" is really "Detect who your deity as a grudge against"

[mucat]

so this is it, me vs. evryone else.

That tends to happen, when you're wrong...

[CoffeeIncluded]

but only because in this world "Detect Evil" is really "Detect who your deity as a grudge on"

In this setting, Detect X is skewed to pre-existing prejudices, both personal and, say, divine. Generally not enough for a massive alignment shift, but sometimes...

Also, notice that we don't have the whole story.

Also also, the Kagoans kinda went crazy here.

[Anterean]

but only because in this world "Detect Evil" is really "Detect who your deity as a grudge against"
In this setting, Detect X is skewed to pre-existing prejudices, both personal and, say, divine. Generally not enough for a massive alignment shift, but sometimes...

Also, notice that we don't have the whole story.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the above. Though, in my opinion, it would be more appropriate to call it detect enemies.
It seems, to me at least, that paladins in this setting are more akin to the 4e paladins, warriors of a deity rather than warriors of good. And there is nothing wrong with that. As long as I am clear on the ground rules.

And you keep saying "We don´t have the whole story", so are we the only remark "ooh can´t wait to see what happens next"

[CoffeeIncluded]

Paladins are supposed to be warriors for good and justice and all that.

But...Well...Not to get into real-world politics (Then again, this is 200-year old history, so...), but did you know that Robespierre used to called The Incorruptible before the Reign of Terror?

It's the same deal with the paladins of Kago.

Also: Paladins of Kago. Not Paladins of Astrid.

Also also: This inherent bias in Detect X can be overcome if one has the knowledge and willpower.

[Asta Kask]

I still have no idea what you're saying. The drow aren't evil, and Lloyd never scanned them with his detect evil.

We don't know whether the drow are evil. Does it matter? Is it OK to commit genocide against evil people? Is genocide only wrong when the good guys suffer from it?

[Mina Kobold]

so this is it, me vs. evryone else.

Lloyd did what he feels right, not good. the drow are evil, for kagogian detect evil spells.

That is a fallacy, I'm afraid. Few of us were included in this discussion and even fewer (I believe none of us did) showed any opposition to you we merely disagreed and attempted to argue our points :smallsmile:

Earlier you said that he was doing good and not right, now you say the opposite. Me confused @_@

And up until Coffee posting about it (After the quoted post) there was no evidence for that, if I recall correctly. But while you are right that the Kagoan users of the spell might see the Plavaan as evil, that still does not make them evil.

[Anterean]

Paladins are supposed to be warriors for good and justice and all that.

But...Well...Not to get into real-world politics (Then again, this is 200-year old history, so...), but did you know that Robespierre used to called The Incorruptible before the Reign of Terror?

It's the same deal with the paladins of Kago.

Also: Paladins of Kago. Not Paladins of Astrid.


Admittedly I did not, I'm fairly certain though that if he had been a (traditional) paladin he would have fallen for that stunt.
It is a little hard to say for sure of course.

Also : Paladin of Kago are paladins of Astrid, their power source are the same deity (as far as we know.. but we don´t have full story yet... hey perhaps it's like Mephistopheles and Lady Aribeth in never winter nights).

No I get your point, we shouldn´t judge all paladins of Astrid by this extreme sub group.

And the Paladins of Kago started out as good guys, stalwart defenders of their people in a harsh and unforgiving land, and now that they have reached their goal making a secure nation for the people of Kago, they have moved on to persecute and murder civilian Plavaan to make sure the country remains safe.

I'm just not agreeing that they remain good guys, but hey I don´t know the whole story yet



Also also: This inherent bias in Detect X can be overcome if one has the knowledge and willpower.

Here :

BINGO!

And they didn't even bother to "scan" them. Hell, Astrid would have probably lied about the results anyway.
You heavily imply that detect evil is really just "What does my deity think of these blokes" which sorta of conflict with the above.

[CoffeeIncluded]

No I get your point, we shouldn´t judge all paladins of Astrid by this extreme sub group.

And the Paladins of Kago started out as good guys, stalwart defenders of their people in a harsh and unforgiving land, and now that they have reached their goal making a secure nation for the people of Kago, they have moved on to persecute and murder civilian Plavaan to make sure the country remains safe.

Yes.


You heavily imply that detect evil is really just "What does my deity think of these blokes" which sorta of conflict with the above.

It was originally an indicator of the target's alignment and intentions, but over time got perverted into a combination of its original use, personal prejudices, and the prejudices of the deity that the caster worships, if the spell is cast as a divine spell.

But the original purpose is still there, deep down...

[Marnath]

We don't know whether the drow are evil. Does it matter? Is it OK to commit genocide against evil people? Is genocide only wrong when the good guys suffer from it?

No on all three counts. But that's not what my point was, I'm just trying to decipher his comments, because honestly the grammar is a bit too poor for me to quite understand.

And I think that they probably aren't evil, anyways. They look like peaceful farmers to me.

[Silverraptor]

Hey Coffee, do you have the thanksgiving week off from school like I do? If so, then that means more comics.:smallbiggrin: (Although, this means I have no excuse to not come out with any Idiosyncrasy comics.:smallsigh:)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Hey Coffee, do you have the thanksgiving week off from school like I do? If so, then that means more comics.:smallbiggrin: (Although, this means I have no excuse to not come out with any Idiosyncrasy comics.:smallsigh:)

Probably.

And since I've got Phantom of The Opera stuck in my head, I've just got a visual of Serrin wearing a black cape and a half-mask and playing the Phantom for kicks.

I mean, she's a soprano and a girl, but she'd have so much fun doing it. :smalltongue:

[Marnath]

Probably.

And since I've got Phantom of The Opera stuck in my head, I've just got a visual of Serrin wearing a black cape and a half-mask and playing the Phantom for kicks.

I mean, she's a soprano and a girl, but she'd have so much fun doing it. :smalltongue:

Hehe. :smallsmile:
Serrin seems like she's the kind of girl that has fun pretty much no matter what she's doing. She's the eternal optimist/free spirit. I knew a girl like that in school. Everything is awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[mucat]

And since I've got Phantom of The Opera stuck in my head, I've just got a visual of Serrin wearing a black cape and a half-mask and playing the Phantom for kicks.

I mean, she's a soprano and a girl, but she'd have so much fun doing it. :smalltongue:

Let a baritone play Christine, then, and stand back and watch the fun. :smallsmile:

[CWater]

I'm back!


It was originally an indicator of the target's alignment and intentions, but over time got perverted into a combination of its original use, personal prejudices, and the prejudices of the deity that the caster worships, if the spell is cast as a divine spell.

But the original purpose is still there, deep down...

I actually like this version of the spells:smallsmile:, it sorta makes sense, considering that the power of the spell comes from a divine source... And I can believe that the original purpose was honest, but then one god though "Wellll, I'll just tweak the result a little bit, for this one time only, really, what harm can it do?" And then it went overboard...:smallfrown:

Hmm...I wonder how long Lloyd stayed in the Kago army... comic 7# (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/OffOnTheWrongFoot.png) stated that he has seen several battles...

[Lix Lorn]

Serrin is Kaylee. No wonder I love her so much. <3

[Asta Kask]

And I think that they probably aren't evil, anyways. They look like peaceful farmers to me.

Perhaps they are evil farmers. Sacrificing people to the grain god has old, old roots.

[Lix Lorn]

Grain for the grain god, bread for the bread throne? xD

[Marnath]

Serrin is Kaylee. No wonder I love her so much. <3

She's who now?

[Lix Lorn]

Character from Firefly, by Joss Whedon. Cheerful and optimistic and far less innocent than she seems. XD

[Raging Gene Ray]

Ah, she thinks that the Plaavan gods have killed Salblaze in cold blood. Those gods weren't there at the start of time - they were raised up by the Plaavans worshipping them. Therefore, she thinks that the Plaavan's goals coincide with their god's.

Which isn't all that unreasonable. Should she just forget about Salblaze? Should her first reaction to seeing a gang of murderers killing her friend and ally for amusement be "Gee, this MUST be a misunderstanding. I'm sure Salblaze did something to them to deserve it."?

It seems perfectly reasonable to react by wanting to impale the orc god on a post one Saturday evening.

Speaking of which, what do the scriptures of the Plavaan gods say? Was it "Our gods totally killed that weak-willed bitch's sissy pet and they could do it again because WE KICK ASS!!!" or something to that effect, then I don't see why Lloyd still sympathizes with them.

If it instead says something that reveals that Plavaans consider many of the same things good and evil that humanoids do, then why didn't he mention some of these to counter Janine's rant? Will we eventually get details on the scriptures of Astrid and the others.


What I'm trying to say is that everyone, even Astrid, can be influenced by their emotions.

I haven't written a single paragraph so far without the counter-argument jingling in countermeasure to it, but there's not enough information available to turn an infinite series of hunches and suspicions into a representation of objective truth. So, to actually come up with an idea and take a side (or action), some sort of explosive (sometimes forced) emotion is needed to catalyze a passionate end to analysis and make a decision.

[mucat]

Character from Firefly, by Joss Whedon. Cheerful and optimistic and far less innocent than she seems. XD

Cheerful: check.

Optmistic: relentlessly.

Brilliant: undeniably.

But when was Kaylee ever less innocent than she seemed? Book, yeah. Maybe Wash and Inara. But unless I missed something...if you look past Kaylee's cheerful, bubbly innocence, you find more cheerful, bubbly innocence. :smallsmile: If Kaylee had dark buried secrets, I totally missed the hints...

[M@XWeru]

Heh, so I guess I'm the only thinking everyone's being altogether too goody-goody in this comic. :P

Anyway, just dropping in to compliment the creator. There can never be too much of anything that resembles OotS.

Here's hoping for some acid breath action from the dragon at some point in the near future. ;)

[Marnath]

Here's hoping for some acid breath action from the dragon at some point in the near future. ;)

I agree with this, you sir have good taste. :smallbiggrin:
Hopefully we get to see him in action again sometime, although I'd settle for him getting a little more screen time.

[Anterean]

Cheerful: check.

Optmistic: relentlessly.

Brilliant: undeniably.

But when was Kaylee ever less innocent than she seemed? Book, yeah. Maybe Wash and Inara. But unless I missed something...if you look past Kaylee's cheerful, bubbly innocence, you find more cheerful, bubbly innocence. :smallsmile: If Kaylee had dark buried secrets, I totally missed the hints...

First time Mal meets her, she is... erh... copulating with the ships previous mechanic, I know it's hardly a dark secret but it does diminish (some interpretations) of innocence

[mucat]

First time Mal meets her, she is... erh... copulating with the ships previous mechanic, I know it's hardly a dark secret but it does diminish (some interpretations) of innocence

Just different definitions of the word, then. I always thought Kaylee's completely unembarrassed attitude toward sex was yet another demonstration of her fundamental innocence, rather than a counterexample...

Which, to stay on-topic, probably gives her yet another parallel to Serrin.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Hehe. :smallsmile:
Serrin seems like she's the kind of girl that has fun pretty much no matter what she's doing. She's the eternal optimist/free spirit. I knew a girl like that in school. Everything is awesome! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, pretty much. Hell, even if her face were horribly disfigured or something I'll bet it wouldn't get her down for too long.


I actually like this version of the spells:smallsmile:, it sorta makes sense, considering that the power of the spell comes from a divine source... And I can believe that the original purpose was honest, but then one god though "Wellll, I'll just tweak the result a little bit, for this one time only, really, what harm can it do?" And then it went overboard...:smallfrown:

Hmm...I wonder how long Lloyd stayed in the Kago army... comic 7# (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/OffOnTheWrongFoot.png) stated that he has seen several battles...

Thanks. And yeah, that's probably what happened...:smallfrown:

And Lloyd has seem battles and training and actually a lot of battles in the simulations with Lexington, Miles, and Alexis, but this is the first thing he's seen with the Plavaan that went so badly...


Speaking of which, what do the scriptures of the Plavaan gods say? Was it "Our gods totally killed that weak-willed bitch's sissy pet and they could do it again because WE KICK ASS!!!" or something to that effect, then I don't see why Lloyd still sympathizes with them.

Lloyd can't read Goblin, Orc, or Drow, so he's been collecting piecemeal translations and doing the rest himself. Therefore he hasn't actually read that much.


Heh, so I guess I'm the only thinking everyone's being altogether too goody-goody in this comic. :P

Anyway, just dropping in to compliment the creator. There can never be too much of anything that resembles OotS.

Here's hoping for some acid breath action from the dragon at some point in the near future. ;)

Thank you! I hope you continue to enjoy! And don't worry about that. :smallamused:


First time Mal meets her, she is... erh... copulating with the ships previous mechanic, I know it's hardly a dark secret but it does diminish (some interpretations) of innocence


Just different definitions of the word, then. I always thought Kaylee's completely unembarrassed attitude toward sex was yet another demonstration of her fundamental innocence, rather than a counterexample...

Which, to stay on-topic, probably gives her yet another parallel to Serrin.
:smallamused: :smalltongue: (Let's just say that when she and Rolf separated, Rolf's friends were like, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!")

[Lycan 01]

"WHAT WHERE YOU THINKING?!" in the "You're an idiot for breaking up" sort of way, or the "you're an idiot for being with her in the first place" sort of way. Because I've had the latter reaction to my friends' breakups a few times. XD

I'm pretty sure its the former meaning. Though, you did mention her being too energetic for him sometimes. :smalltongue:

[Marnath]

"WHAT WHERE YOU THINKING?!" in the "You're an idiot for breaking up" sort of way, or the "you're an idiot for being with her in the first place" sort of way. Because I've had the latter reaction to my friends' breakups a few times. XD

I'm pretty sure its the former meaning. Though, you did mention her being too energetic for him sometimes. :smalltongue:

I'm guessing the former. :smallwink:
The "overly energetic" is probably why. :smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

I go a bit beyond that: Justice should be about preventing harm and about creating good.

Which essentially means that if you kill him he can't be redeemed and used to make the world a better place.

But that's subjective.
I also believe 'justice' and 'good' are closely related but still different things :smalltongue:

[Anterean]

Just different definitions of the word, then. I always thought Kaylee's completely unembarrassed attitude toward sex was yet another demonstration of her fundamental innocence, rather than a counterexample...


Interesting, never thought of it that way.

It is also entirely possible that was Lix Lorn meant with "less innocent than she seems" wrong, it was just all that sprang to mind

[Worlok]

But...Well...Not to get into real-world politics (Then again, this is 200-year old history, so...), but did you know that Robespierre used to called The Incorruptible before the Reign of Terror?
And throughout it. (As well as "The Virtuous" for his alleged lack of wants and passions - Which he had likely purged himself of in order not to get his judgment all clouded by that whole "humanity" jazz.) Partially because he had people like Danton, who was as much of a close personal friend of his as it was probably possible, executed when he felt Danton had betrayed the Revolution. The guy was firmly convinced to be serving a greater goal, doing whatever he had done to the people for the better of the people and having to do so by any means necessary / technically feasible - therefore his proverbial character sheet had the "Lawful Good" part written on it in blood and thus, he became the "Incorruptible".

The parallel to the paladins is there: The way Robespierre (may have) thought of himself as the one who was destined to deliver the world from the influence of royalty (And let's face it: Even if that "Let them eat cake"-quote never actually happened, the French royals were sort of pricks) and went all "crusader" on his country in (more or less) righteous outrage, the Kagoan Astridites believe themselves to be justified in avenging deocide by means of genocide (Perhaps I should look into rap music, this rhyming thing just keeps happening...) and go all "crusader" on the Plavaan. Of course this has other components, most notably the conflict being religiously inspired and the Kagoan apparently being collective-guilt-believers (Wasn't that even the title of a comic?), which itself almost makes Robespierre with his extremism in the name of civil rights and "freedom" look level-headedly enlightened in comparison (And what is a telltale sign of things having gone horribly wrong somewhere if not that? :smalleek:), but the mindset is pretty much the same.

Also, "Lyric" is an awesome name for a Drow bard. Assuming he is a bard, that is. :smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

We don't know whether the drow are evil. Does it matter? Is it OK to commit genocide against evil people? Is genocide only wrong when the good guys suffer from it?

Genocide is wrong because the inherent reason you're doing it can be overcome by the creatures you are killing. If such a thing is not, then i see no reason not to :smallconfused: except for proving yourself wrong in it's unovercomeability.

EX: Killing all the drow is wrong because not all the drow are evil, and they can stop if they are. Killing The Faceless Ones is okay because their very existence unravels time and drives the lookers insane.

Also: why does the name 'lyric' sound familiar? :smallconfused:

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Also: why does the name 'lyric' sound familiar? :smallconfused:[/QUOTE]

Perhaps because it's only three letters away from being 'Luic'? I haven't trolled through the archive again since CoffeeIncluded's photobucket account ran out of bandwidth but Lyric seems to essentially be a recolouring of Serrin's brother, appearance wise, and that's only hair, eye and skin tones if you go by the outfit Luic (unless that's his father's name, in which case I apologise) first appeared in. At first I thought this might have been a coincidence because of the way that the comics are put together and the fact that at least one of the other drow looked a lot like one of Serrin's grandparents recoloured but by now I've come to think of it as a deliberate parallel to Serrin's family which is supposed to subtly remind us of their 'humanity'. (Humanity in air quotes because their elves which are humanoid rather than human, not as an anti-plaavan statement)
Sorry if that wasn't very coherent but it was enough to finally push me out of lurkerdom. Really enjoying the comic, keep up the good work!

[super dark33]

The drow aren't evil.

and how do you know that?

ugh i HATE people who say 'Drow are people too!', well there right, Drow are people, but evil people.

[Anterean]

and how do you know that?

ugh i HATE people who say 'Drow are people too!', well there right, Drow are people, but evil people.

It is a setting thing, in generic dungeons and dragons, yes drow as vile as they come. but here in Coffees setting they don´t run around and kick puppies.
(Kagoian Paladins do though :smalltongue:)

[blackjack217]

and how do you know that?

ugh i HATE people who say 'Drow are people too!', well there right, Drow are people, but evil people.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1494/112926-136833-drizzt-do-urden_large.jpg

I'm gonna do this until you make exceptions.

[M@XWeru]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html

^ Last two panels.

[Raging Gene Ray]

I noticed something in this strip (http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/AsTheStoriesSay.png) when I was re-reading the story of Astrid...

One of the gods, I'm pretty sure it's Fortune, is wearing the same clothes as the drow survivor. Is she a cleric of Fortune, someone who can appreciate luck, or is it just coincidence?


He just used the Color of their blood as a metaphor for saying "oh dear Astrid, they are the same as us! Only the shell is different!"\

The shell...that makes me imagine a race of Fine-sized peanut people who have perfect anatomical replicas of human anatomy instead of nuts inside of them sleeping together in a basket. Then a human stumbles upon it, cracks one open...

[Worlok]

The shell...that makes me imagine a race of Fine-sized peanut people who have perfect anatomical replicas of human anatomy instead of nuts inside of them sleeping together in a basket. Then a human stumbles upon it, cracks one open...
Wow. That idea, and the mental picture it evokes when you try to imagine the peanut person being cracked open, is at once strangely beautiful and solemnly creepy. :smalleek:

[HalfTangible]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html

^ Last two panels.

You're accepting as credible Nale vouching that one of his own teamates is not evil at a point in time where he was pretending he wasn't evil either.

[M@XWeru]

Not really, I just thought it was quicker and more comically appropriate than referring you to Salvatore's Drizzt, whatsername's princess of the drow and any other drow-tales of gratuitous rebellion I could find. As for making an actual point, I don't care one whit.

[Mina Kobold]

and how do you know that?

Because they have free will? Demons sometimes turn good and they're made of Evil(TM) so why not Drow who are made of flesh, blood and a hint of bitterness for flavour? They're less likely to be evil than kobolds for Pepsi's sake!


ugh i HATE people who say 'Drow are people too!', well there right, Drow are people, but evil people.

Why do you hate people for doing that? They're right, I looked up Drow in both ADnD and the 3.5 Monster Manual and both contradict them being inherently evil :smallsmile:

Even though it was rather pointless to do since Murphy's Law doesn't need to follow any rules that Coffee don't want it to but I'm not the one to say no to an adventurous hunt through ancient temples just to find an old book about fictional monsters :smalltongue:

[HalfTangible]

I prefer to think of stereotyped racial profiles in terms of Mass Effect-ish Renegade and Paragon - Jerk or Altruist. The Drow would be mostly renegade instead of mostly evil, for example. It's a bit easier that way because 'Jerk' and 'Altruist' are much easier to see and define than 'good' and 'evil'.

@V: I hate it when people are dismissive of other's opinions, period.

[Marnath]

and how do you know that?

ugh i HATE people who say 'Drow are people too!', well there right, Drow are people, but evil people.

You know what I hate? People who are dismissive of other opinions because "there's no proof" and then proclaim their own opinion as gospel even though they don't offer any sort of proof either.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay! That's it!

No race in Aequar is inherently good or inherently evil. Q. E. ****ing. D.

And yes, I know that's not the precise definition of QED, but now is not the time to be pedantic.

And the dress thing with Kylie and Fortune was just a coincidence.

Thanks for reading, Elanor_Rigby! Consciously, I kinda got lazy, but who knows what I was thinking subconsciously? :smalltongue:

Lyric didn't have any class levels, but he might have gotten some in bard eventually, had he lived.

[blackjack217]

:
Lyric didn't have any class levels, but he might have gotten some in bard eventually, had he lived.

he died?? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

[mucat]

he died?? :smallconfused::smallconfused:
He did. Lyric is the guy who Lloyd killed before confronting Kyrie and the baby.

[Marnath]

Okay! That's it!

No race in Aequar is inherently good or inherently evil. Q. E. ****ing. D.


I thought you love rampant speculation. :smallwink:
Hehe, just teasin'. :smallsmile:

Also: there are times it's not ok to be pendantic grammar nazis? But, but...this is the internet!!:smalleek:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Sorry, I can't do an extra update this week, even though it's Thanksgiving. I'm really busy. :smallfrown:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Don't worry coffee, enjoy thanksgiving, we can wait :smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

Sorry, I can't do an extra update this week, even though it's Thanksgiving. I'm really busy. :smallfrown:

As for me, I'm purposely stalling on getting my own comic done.:smalltongue:

[Mystic Muse]

As for me, I'm purposely stalling on getting my own comic done.:smalltongue:

*looks at last update*

Yes, yes you are.:smalltongue:

[Ranielle]

NO! I can't wait.. nooooooooooo *falls of a cliff and dies*

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Thanks for reading, Elanor_Rigby! Consciously, I kinda got lazy, but who knows what I was thinking subconsciously? :smalltongue:


:smallredface: As an English Lit. student I'm rather prone to reading too much into stuff, sorry about that!
On an unrelated note, I was wondering whether you'd mind if I posted a 'cover' version of one of your strips here on the thread - something along the lines of the manga versions of OotS that Elagune used to post except not in a manga style? I've been thinking about starting up a webcomic of my own sometime and thought it might be a neat way to practice panel layout and such... I'd make sure to add a disclaimer at the bottom of the page explaining where the original came from but please feel free to say no anyway.

[CoffeeIncluded]

:smallredface: As an English Lit. student I'm rather prone to reading too much into stuff, sorry about that!
On an unrelated note, I was wondering whether you'd mind if I posted a 'cover' version of one of your strips here on the thread - something along the lines of the manga versions of OotS that Elagune used to post except not in a manga style? I've been thinking about starting up a webcomic of my own sometime and thought it might be a neat way to practice panel layout and such... I'd make sure to add a disclaimer at the bottom of the page explaining where the original came from but please feel free to say no anyway.

A cover version? I'd like to see that.

And guys, I know what I said, but I...I might actually be able to update late tonight!!! :smallbiggrin:

[blackjack217]

Excellent.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Excellent.Exquisite

FTFT:smallwink:

[Worlok]

That would indeed be totally awesome.

[Lix Lorn]

:O
Inconceivable!

[Mystic Muse]

A cover version? I'd like to see that.

And guys, I know what I said, but I...I might actually be able to update late tonight!!! :smallbiggrin:

Aww, too bad Ranielle is dead now. Look at her last post to see what I'm talking about.

[Marnath]

Aww, too bad Ranielle is dead now. Look at her last post to see what I'm talking about.

I'm on it. "Ressurection, ressurection, ressurection...."

:smallwink:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Comic Time!

#98: Lockstep
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/Lockstep.png

[Dusk Eclipse]

:eek:Did the halfling arcanist blew up that drow?

Brutal....coffee..... I just don't know what to say.

[Marnath]

It's nice to see that she got away with her brother, at least.

[Raging Gene Ray]

It's nice to see that she got away with her brother, at least.

Sister. The baby is a girl (see Lute's comment in the last comic). I hope we hear some more from Kylee (I think I got that name right) and how she's been supporting herself and her sister.

How much time has passed between the flashback and now? How old would that baby be?

[Marnath]

Sister. The baby is a girl (see Lute's comment in the last comic). I hope we hear some more from Kylee (I think I got that name right) and how she's been supporting herself and her sister.


My mind is like a sieve. :smallsigh:
I'm glad that she got away with her sister at least.

[Worlok]

That was... wow. You'd think seeing how things went so far, one would be mentally prepared for the horror, but then you see that Drow lying there, limbs cloven off, bodies through, the mark of an explosion on the ground... And you just don't know what to say. :smalleek: Wow. Just wow.

[blackjack217]

That's a false military report that is. Now anti-palavaan sentiments aside I would think that would be frowned upon.

[CoffeeIncluded]

:eek:Did the halfling arcanist blew up that drow?

Brutal....coffee..... I just don't know what to say.


That was... wow. You'd think seeing how things went so far, one would be mentally prepared for the horror, but then you see that Drow lying there, limbs cloven off, bodies through, the mark of an explosion on the ground... And you just don't know what to say. :smalleek: Wow. Just wow.

I'm not pulling any punches just because of the cheery colorful art style. This comic is gonna be brutal at times. Oh, and take a look at the drow that got blown up and the drow that we saw just before this happened...:smallfrown:

But I'm glad I could elicit such a response. I guess that means I'm a good storyteller?


Sister. The baby is a girl (see Lute's comment in the last comic). I hope we hear some more from Kylee (I think I got that name right) and how she's been supporting herself and her sister.

How much time has passed between the flashback and now? How old would that baby be?

First off, some naming corrections: Her name's Kylie with an "I". Her brother's name was Lyric; Lute was the little town at the border of Laria where the bandits were. Just wanted to clear that up. :smallsmile: And this happened about...Lloyd's 28 now, so about two years ago? Three? Around that.


That's a false military report that is. Now anti-palavaan sentiments aside I would think that would be frowned upon.

It's not faked according to them...:smallfrown:

[blackjack217]

That's really the definition of "attacked with impunity." :smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown:

[Marnath]

Oh, and take a look at the drow that got blown up and the drow that we saw just before this happened...:smallfrown:


I was wondering where pregnant-drow lady went. I didn't look closely at the hair the first time.

[Worlok]

But I'm glad I could elicit such a response. I guess that means I'm a good storyteller?
Most certainly. :smalleek: (If a brutal one. :smalltongue:)

[Marnath]

Most certainly. :smalleek: (If a brutal one. :smalltongue:)

If you think Coffee is brutal, you should check out the current Goblins strip. Seriously. :smalleek:

[Strife Warzeal]

If you think Coffee is brutal, you should read some of Watersmurf's *cough Dierdre cough* stories.

V Fanfiction.net, You've been warned. (though they are well written in my opinion)
And a link to the OotS crack pairings forum (http://forum.fanfiction.net/forum/Welcome_to_Crack/71859/)

[Worlok]

If you think Coffee is brutal, you should check out the current Goblins strip. Seriously. :smalleek:
I did. But comparing anything to Goblins brutality-in-webcomics-wise is sort of unfair, isn't it? Besides, I don't really think Coffee's all that brutal. That's what the halfling arcanist is for. :smallsigh: :smallwink:


If you think Coffee is brutal, you should read some of Watersmurf's stories.
I don't really know about that, so perhaps I should. Where do I find those?

[Raging Gene Ray]

I don't really know about that, so perhaps I should. Where do I find those?

The Crack Pairings Thread. Click the banner in my sig, scroll down to the post where the authors are listed alphabetically, click.

She writes a Redcloak/V fic and keeps them in character.




It's not faked according to them...:smallfrown:

What are you talking about? Nothing in that report was faked. They attacked with impunity. It doesn't have to be effective or lethal to have impunity. And if the general wanted them to have rules for what constitutes an attack, he should have defined them. He didn't even specify if it had to be a non-verbal attack.

EDIT: Hmmm...Strife Warzeal beat me to the link.

[M@XWeru]

:eek:Did the halfling arcanist blew up that drow?

Brutal....coffee..... I just don't know what to say.


That was... wow. You'd think seeing how things went so far, one would be mentally prepared for the horror, but then you see that Drow lying there, limbs cloven off, bodies through, the mark of an explosion on the ground... And you just don't know what to say. :smalleek: Wow. Just wow.

Oh yeah, the spiky, technicolour puddles of blood and the X'd over eyes really aren't for the faint of heart. :\

Come on!

[Darklord Bright]

Oh yeah, the spiky, technicolour puddles of blood and the X'd over eyes really aren't for the faint of heart. :\

Come on!

To be fair, I suppose it's the mental image produced by the comic that illicits this response.



Mind you, in my own, discontinued comic, I had a man cut in half with an arc of blood, a guy's head exploded open by a flaming fist, a hole punched in a guy's chest, someone got impaled, a neck got slit... and I certainly wasn't using oots style for the whole thing.

[Juggling Goth]

Hey, Lloyd? When having a dramatic change of heart, you might want to drop the bloodstained murder weapon away from the cowering civilians, not towards them. The latter tends to scare them...

Ah well, I guess he's new to this.

[Lycan 01]

"Hey Lloyd, just cleaning up here like we were told."

The flippant attitude is one thing. But also... I think its safe to infer from that statement that Lloyd gave the order. :smallsigh: If he'd been given the order to, they wouldn't really have to explain what they were doing. If he gave the order though... they'd want to tell him they'd finished up doing what they were told to do. By him.

I dunno, maybe my analysis of discourse is off. But you can infer a lot from the way stuff is said or worded. And that seems like something you'd say to your boss, or at least a higher authority figure.

[Worlok]

The Crack Pairings Thread. Click the banner in my sig, scroll down to the post where the authors are listed alphabetically, click.

She writes a Redcloak/V fic and keeps them in character.
Alright. Thanks. I'll definitely look into that.


Oh yeah, the spiky, technicolour puddles of blood and the X'd over eyes really aren't for the faint of heart. :\

Come on!
It's a little something people call immersive reading. Darklord Bright's got it right. (Sorry.) Besides, the medium in question being a stick figure comic (as in, a goddamned stick figure comic), the graphics are quite overwhelming.

[Lix Lorn]

Y...yikes. >_<

[Mina Kobold]

"Hey Lloyd, just cleaning up here like we were told."

The flippant attitude is one thing. But also... I think its safe to infer from that statement that Lloyd gave the order. :smallsigh: If he'd been given the order to, they wouldn't really have to explain what they were doing. If he gave the order though... they'd want to tell him they'd finished up doing what they were told to do. By him.

I dunno, maybe my analysis of discourse is off. But you can infer a lot from the way stuff is said or worded. And that seems like something you'd say to your boss, or at least a higher authority figure.

They could have been told to clean up after it by the general, informing Loyd because he is A) Their leader in battle and B) Was elsewhere during the fight.

But it is possible, he is trying not to remember but does his subconsciousness agree? Worth thinking about.

[RdMarquis]

That 6th panel, where Lloyd is staring wordlessly at the aftermath of the fight, is probably the most unsettling one for me. :smallfrown: Though I had to cringe when I saw that drow who got blasted to cinders below the neck.


But it is possible, he is trying not to remember but does his subconsciousness agree? Worth thinking about.

Interesting. Is there any possibility that this flashback is not completely accurate (besides the matter of who gave the order to attack, that is)?

[Raging Gene Ray]

I was wondering where pregnant-drow lady went. I didn't look closely at the hair the first time.

So, what you're saying is that the halfling should get XP for two kills instead of just one?

[Mina Kobold]

So, what you're saying is that the halfling should get XP for two kills instead of just one?

Even children as old as ten don't give any XP, officially it's because they're just not challenging enough and unofficially it's because it's too evil to let he players do that.

At least, in the game. The Coffeeverse might have different rules about killing children.

[Lix Lorn]

At least, in the game. The Coffeeverse might have different rules about killing children.
Let's...
um.
:smallfrown:
Need happy now... (http://cuteoverload.com/)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Even children as old as ten don't give any XP, officially it's because they're just not challenging enough and unofficially it's because it's too evil to let he players do that.

At least, in the game. The Coffeeverse might have different rules about killing children.

No, the rules are the same. Don't worry Lix. (Though thanks for the link.)


That 6th panel, where Lloyd is staring wordlessly at the aftermath of the fight, is probably the most unsettling one for me. :smallfrown: Though I had to cringe when I saw that drow who got blasted to cinders below the neck.

Same here. This strip, and several others in the future, are going to be pretty tough for me to make. :smallfrown:


To be fair, I suppose it's the mental image produced by the comic that illicits this response.



Mind you, in my own, discontinued comic, I had a man cut in half with an arc of blood, a guy's head exploded open by a flaming fist, a hole punched in a guy's chest, someone got impaled, a neck got slit... and I certainly wasn't using oots style for the whole thing.

Exactly. Thanks, Darklord. And I'm glad you're reading this. :smallsmile:


What are you talking about? Nothing in that report was faked. They attacked with impunity. It doesn't have to be effective or lethal to have impunity. And if the general wanted them to have rules for what constitutes an attack, he should have defined them. He didn't even specify if it had to be a non-verbal attack.

Exactly. :smallfrown:

[super dark33]

Go paladins! yeah! eradicate the tribe!

[HalfTangible]

"Hey Lloyd, just cleaning up here like we were told."

The flippant attitude is one thing. But also... I think its safe to infer from that statement that Lloyd gave the order. :smallsigh: If he'd been given the order to, they wouldn't really have to explain what they were doing. If he gave the order though... they'd want to tell him they'd finished up doing what they were told to do. By him.

I dunno, maybe my analysis of discourse is off. But you can infer a lot from the way stuff is said or worded. And that seems like something you'd say to your boss, or at least a higher authority figure.
Or they were ordered to clean up by one of the military guys above Lloyd. Remember, they were told not to attack until they were attacked themselves. Despite the fact that the plavaan were deemed sub-human(oid).

[Tulio d Bard]

Coffee, do you know who gave the order? Or will it ever be reveled?

[Mina Kobold]

Let's...
um.
:smallfrown:
Need happy now... (http://cuteoverload.com/)

Uh well-*_*

Cute~

The pictures are cute as well :smalltongue:


No, the rules are the same. Don't worry Lix. (Though thanks for the link.)


Phew, I was scared for a moment that they might actually be gaining power by doing it.

That would be very wrong :smalleek:

[HalfTangible]

Coffee, do you know who gave the order? Or will it ever be reveled?

I'm not sure it matters. :smallconfused: The results would be the same and it would cheapen the fact it was hidden in the first place.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not cool dude.

I don't care what your personal opinions are on Drow in D&D. Unless we've heard differently from coffee, the Drow are not inherently evil.

Heck, Green dragons are always evil in D&D and Tinder is lawful neutral.

Kyuubi, I think you might have fell into a bait, just saying.

Not that I disagree with you, beside in some settings (Eberron) Drow are Neutral IIRC, so there is "cannon" precedence of that.

[Mystic Muse]

EDIT: Actually, I'm going to delete my last post because I don't want this turning into a morality thread.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Coffee, do you know who gave the order? Or will it ever be reveled?

HalfTangible's got it.


I'm not sure it matters. :smallconfused: The results would be the same and it would cheapen the fact it was hidden in the first place.

...It doesn't really matter at this point...:smallfrown:

And as I have said before: NO RACE IN AEQUAR IS INHERENTLY GOOD OR INHERENTLY EVIL.

[Tulio d Bard]

I'm not sure it matters. :smallconfused: The results would be the same and it would cheapen the fact it was hidden in the first place.

HalfTangible's got it.



...It doesn't really matter at this point...:smallfrown:

I know.
That's exactly why I asked. :smallwink:

[super dark33]

Why all the NORMALLY evil races are all goody-goody and doing the evil acts because they have to or else they die?
when will I see a bandit who kills for money and doesnt care about people?
or an evil nacromancer zombifieng the people in the graveyard?
and even a Red dragon terrorizing a village for the fun?

[Raging Gene Ray]

Why all the NORMALLY evil races are all goody-goody and doing the evil acts because they have to or else they die?

Well, Aequar...it's a ****ed up place. There are good drow and there are evil drow, they're a lot like humans in that regard. This one drow family, they took me into their house so I didn't freeze to death, gave me some mushroom wine. And they had this cute little son who gave me some soup and stuff...you can tell which drow are the evil ones because they have this glowing mark on their foreheads. Also, more importantly, their behavior is really different from that of the good drow.

Their leader, she was organizing a slave trade. A SLAVE TRADE! That is UNACCEPTABLE, man! So I go up to her in her office and I tell her "Yo! This is UNACCEPTABLE, man!" Then I picked her up and I threw her out the goddamn window!

And all the other drow were gathered around and they saw that their leader was dead, and it was good. And I say "You are FREE now!" Then I saw that one cute little drow boy and I go "Hey." And he's all like "'Sup." That's just how stuff goes down there sometimes.


In all seriousness, Coffee has hinted that there is a truly evil Orc in Janine's past called Quark who did something to somebody named Forde.

[Mina Kobold]

Why all the NORMALLY evil races are all goody-goody and doing the evil acts because they have to or else they die?
when will I see a bandit who kills for money and doesnt care about people?
or an evil nacromancer zombifieng the people in the graveyard?
and even a Red dragon terrorizing a village for the fun?

Because there is no reason for the entire race to be evil? As has been said, they can be both good and evil.

It's simply how free will work, some choose to do evil, some choose to do good and some choose neither :smallsmile:

It is also a fairly medieval setting so actually going about and killing people for money or fun would be difficult, the family would be hunting you and the military would be suspicious if you try to spend too much money or if you are a bloodthirsty red dragon (just look at how Tinder's family went).

And that's if they don't just pay a wizard to deal with you.

[Anterean]

In all seriousness, Coffee has hinted that there is a truly evil Orc in Janine's past called Quark who did something to somebody named Forde.

Are we talking about Janine who hates the Plavaan (which include orcs) with a passion rivalling a Kagoian Paladin for the what their gods did hers ?
Who, if anyone, would berate Lloyd for letting the evil Plaavan go ?

Sure we have seen her not like orcs, but we have no evidence this is a result from anything other than her blatant (religiously founded) racism

[Raging Gene Ray]

Sure we have seen her not like orcs, but we have no evidence this is a result from anything other than her blatant (religiously founded) racism

In one comic, Radic reminds Janine that she needs to remember to "separate other orcs from Quark."

In another comic, shortly before they meet Serrin, Lloyd suggests they work with an orc wizard. Janine reacts with fear instead of rage, she even says that she'd be willing to work with drow or "even goblins," but not orcs. Radic comforts her and says that Janine will NOT work with an orc and that if Janine goes, she goes. While Janine is hysterical, she sobs the name "Forde..."

[Anterean]

I stand corrected.
Janine has obviously been wronged by some orcs in the past. Still doesn´t mean they evil, the ones who murdered Terrence wasn´t, and with at attitude towards Plavaans that is present in the Astridian church it is not entirely unlikely she provoked something.
She is shown to be oblivious of other peoples feelings and where they draw the line (there is properly a proper term, but I just can´t remember it right now.)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well, I'll leave it all to speculation since you'll find out in the sequel. For now, weekly Friday update! :smallbiggrin:

#99: Hyperbole?
http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac294/caffeineincluded/Hyperbole.png

[Marnath]

If they knew, why the hell didn't they talk to him about it sooner? O.o
Still, good to know he's not the only good person in Kago.

[Strife Warzeal]

If they knew, why the hell didn't they talk to him about it sooner? O.o
Still, good to know he's not the only good person in Kago.

My guess is because prior to this they might have thought of lloyd as one of the indoctrinated paladins that would see it as treason.

[blackjack217]

Nice comic. I particularly liked seeing Loyd panic, gives him even more depth.

[Grim ranger]

Well, go figure. Now I wonder how many of those paladins are in fact Not Brainwashed... and how many of them have left Kago :smalltongue:

[HalfTangible]

Lloyd killed one person and he's having an existential crisis.

Moreover, it's not even over the fact he killed someone but that the country ordered him to do it?

Lloyd, you are the biggest wimp that has ever made a good role model and dammit I wish the real world would let people like you prosper :smallfrown:

[Tulio d Bard]

"Lexington's Lexington"
...
:smallconfused:
Now I'm curious.

[HalfTangible]

"Lexington's Lexington"
...
:smallconfused:
Now I'm curious.

Basically it means 'that's just what he's like'

[Mina Kobold]

Lloyd killed one person and he's having an existential crisis.

Moreover, it's not even over the fact he killed someone but that the country ordered him to do it?

Lloyd, you are the biggest wimp that has ever made a good role model and dammit I wish the real world would let people like you prosper :smallfrown:

I believe his dilemma is that the country he has believed in since he was barely taller than a four-legged wolf thing with a funny face* ordered him to kill what was not the heartless monster they had told him it was but instead was perfectly innocent.

After he brutally slaughtered one and saw how others do the same and presumably have for centuries without any remorse.

Basically the equivalent of Obi-Wan finding out the Sith are in fact peace-loving hippies after he killed Darth Maul instead of just Anakin being sad because he killed a Hutt.

*AKA, a Rottweiler.

[Tulio d Bard]

Basically it means 'that's just what he's like'

I know what it means, but I don't know what it MEANS. :smallwink:
What's the "that" in "that's just what he's like"

[Geno9999]

Hey wait, on the first panel, Miles said, "...at last you understand what Elizabeth's been telling us."

So she's been secretly trying to teach Lloyd & co. about the truth of the Plaavan and they didn't get it before?

[Eleanor_Rigby]

"Lexington's Lexington"
...
:smallconfused:
Now I'm curious.


Basically it means 'that's just what he's like'

When Lexington first appeared I thought he might be a human-hobgoblin hybrid or something. I figured since Murphy's Law has featured characters who are half elf and half human and at least one character who was half elf-half goblin then a character being half human-half goblinoid shouldn't really be any less possible. Or he could just be a snaggle toothed elf/half elf like he said...

Either way if there's been speculation about Lexington being part plaavaan here on the forum it's not a huge stretch to assume that characters have had similar theories in-comic. I imagine being on the recieving end of anti-plaavaan slurs even if you weren't actually of plaavaan origin it would probably set you thinking about just how well-earned their reputation was. There again, if there were people in Kago who genuinely believed Lexington was part plaavaan would he still be in such good nick?

[Worlok]

Sorry if I missed this previously or am hereby stating the obvious, but "General Murphy"? Could it be that the title "Murphy's Law" has more than one meaning...? :smallconfused:

[Lix Lorn]

By my count, that is the... third time that revelation has come up. xP

[MoleMage]

Damnit, I missed the new thread for like two weeks!

I knew something had to be up.

Oh well. Caught up again. Keep it up Coffee!

[CWater]

A really good comic this one was.:smallsmile: Sorry for the word order, I've been writing poems.;) Especially the last three panels, Lloyd's panic feels very real.


If they knew, why the hell didn't they talk to him about it sooner? O.o
Still, good to know he's not the only good person in Kago.

My guess is because prior to this they might have thought of lloyd as one of the indoctrinated paladins that would see it as treason.
I think so too...I wonder did Myles and Lexington helped Lloyd run away from Kago...and what happened to them? Oh, what will comic 100 bring? (sorry^^'):smallamused:

Hmm...you know, could this one song match Lloyd? Perhaps more in the present day than just right at the moment, I'm not sure?

It's called "The Power of One" by Sonata Arctica. You really should listen to it,(so a link to Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPfDAekxNM0)) since it's so much better that way, but if you don't have the time/interest,:smalltongue: here are the

Lyrics:
*sounds of rain*

Speaking:
[“My father’s land, my mother’s tongue,
misleading me so shamelessly.
For many years I misbelieved,
the hatred is the path for me..”]

Father I have killed many angels
I think
I will now walk to the sea
I hope I will someday forgive me
Please moor
my empty boat on a pier

I can blame for the blue blood that runs in my veins
But I seem to forget that we are all the same

In your own blaze of hate you've spawned the fear in many lives
You've taken action thinking it was all said on the signs
You cannot heal the feeling burning deep inside your spine
You now collapse, cave-in revealing scabby marks of life

Mother I've seen too much, I hate to live my life
Forgot every word you told me, stubborn little child (angel of your life)
I have to find my Eden now, the gates I left behind
But the pain will remain
No power to gain

Now I have time to dwell on, self awareness, dreadful crime
I saw the colors too bright, not knowing that I was blind
I slayed a man who took a chance and drank the forbidden wine
The map I draw reveals that I have been complete, machine, in team

Father I've seen too much, I hate to live my life
Forgot every word you told me, stubborn little child (angel of your life)
I have to find my Eden now, the gates I left behind
The pain will remain
No power to gain. No!

Mother where's your son?
When has this begun?
Who has been the fool?

No one was born to be a servant or a slave
Who can tell me the color of the rain?
In the world that we live in, the things said and done
They can well overrun
The power of one!

(solo guitar)

No one was born to be a servant or a slave
Can you tell me the color of the rain?
In the world that we live in, the things said and done
They can well overrun
The power of one!

To live and let die
To give hope and take life
Is that what you're here for?

To think that you are right
To make sure it won't fly
Is the making of a hate crime

In the lands of the brave,
In the homes of the land slaves
We are all the same

I need to believe
There's more than the eye can see
All colors of rainbow

(instrumental)

No one was born to be a slave
Seek the past and place the blame
Tell me the color of the rain
No one was born to be a master

In the land we live, we die
Praise the oneness, praise the lie
To bind a web around the faker
We will need a true
Rainmaker

No one was born to be a slave
Seek the past and place the blame
Tell me the color of the rain
No one was born to be a master

Speaking: (chorus sung in the background)
["Children of Abel, Children of Cain
can live in harmony, without shame.
The keys that I grant thee, The Sacred Land
are dry desert sand on the palm of your hand.
Without the water, the wisdom of past
will run through your fingers, forgotten so fast.
Thus now when I leave you, I'm truly blind.
This blindness, this blessing, the hope of mankind..."]

*rain*

[Lycan 01]

Oh wow, I loved this one. Lots of character development and cool details. I loved the random cutaway to Lloyd's hypothetical execution. I just found his expression kinda funny, like it was a "Wait, how did I get here?!" sort of cutaway scene. XD

Interested details on Miles and Lexington. If Miles is supposed to be the next Arch-Magos or whatever, could he possibly try to change things? And as for Lexington being Lexington....... I still say he's a half-not-elf. :smalltongue:

Poor Miles, though. Lloyd just kinda shakes him like rattle, then drops him unceremoniously. XD

[Lix Lorn]

Hmm... I think the song Hero of War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdXq20oJlC0) kinda fits.

[Marnath]

Damnit, I missed the new thread for like two weeks!

I knew something had to be up.

Oh well. Caught up again. Keep it up Coffee!

It's been on top of page 1 this whole time, how'd you miss it? O.o

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ha, thanks everyone! And yeah, I wanted to show Lloyd utterly freaking out (A reasonable response). Notice how his hair, always impeccably groomed, even now, suddenly becomes frazzled when he freaks out? :smallbiggrin:

[Worlok]

Notice how his hair, always impeccably groomed, even now, suddenly becomes frazzled when he freaks out? :smallbiggrin:
I had noticed something was different, but until you pointed it out, I didn't realise what it was. :smallbiggrin:


By my count, that is the... third time that revelation has come up. xP
Alright. Moping in my corner now. :smalltongue:

[Lord Raziere]

:smalleek:

wow.

also,I noticed something..... "General Murphy".....

Murphy's Law.....

General Murphy.....

this ain't about any law stating the worst will eventually happen. Its about the law of General Murphy in the story......now why do I have bad feeling about this?

[Worlok]

So I stopped moping momentarily in order to ask: Does that constitute the fourth time? :smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

:smalleek:

wow.

also,I noticed something..... "General Murphy".....

Murphy's Law.....

General Murphy.....

this ain't about any law stating the worst will eventually happen. Its about the law of General Murphy in the story......now why do I have bad feeling about this?

Four.... :smalltongue:

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Hi again

I've been working on the 'cover version' of one of the strips and I'd say I'm probably at least half way through it but it will probably still be a while yet before I can post the finished thing because I kind of went a bit overboard with it. I've got a coloured version of the first panel-sans lettering though if anyone wants to see a preview?

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa405/Zomp_Jorr/murphyslaw24panel1previewrescaled.jpg

Can you tell what it is yet?

[John Cribati]

@Eleanor: No. The pic didn't show up on my browser.

@Comic: More revelation for Lloyd. It's oddly fun to watch him break down like this.

[Lix Lorn]

Not showing for me either.

[Worlok]

Can you tell what it is yet?
I am sorry, but I doubt anyone can. The picture doesn't show. At least to me. :smallfrown:

Edit: Swordsages all around...

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Sorry, haven't posted images online. I think the file might be too large. Will resize.
Also, as Varsuvius knows, stressful situations will wreak havoc with your hair...

EDIT: Or, I may have copied the URL of the photobucket webpage instead of the image code... :smallsigh:
EDIT EDIT: Or I may have done what you said, Half Tangible. Hopefully it works now, it shows on my computer anyhow...

[HalfTangible]

Sorry, haven't posted images online. I think the file might be too large. Will resize.
Also, as Varsuvius knows, stressful situations will wreak havoc with your hair...

You gave it the album url, you need the image url.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ditto here; I can't see it either.


@Comic: More revelation for Lloyd. It's oddly fun to watch him break down like this.

Ooh, really? Why? :smallbiggrin:

[John Cribati]

It's just a thing with me. I just find it fun to toss one of my characters into a metaphorical meat grinder to see how they respond. It helps build them up for me, mostly because I'm the kind of guy whose characters complain and threaten violence against me when they're written OOC.

[Lix Lorn]

Ooh! I see it!
Matt seems a little short, IMO.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Cool! And is the shortness/pointy nose your drawing style? (Matt's about average height, but slim and wiry with a sprinter's build.).

Also, I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but Matt's blue hair is actually his bangs, dyed and tied up with a lockpick.

Dammit, I really need a new scanner. :smallfrown:

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Ooh! I see it!
Matt seems a little short, IMO.


Cool! And is the shortness/pointy nose your drawing style? (Matt's about average height, but slim and wiry with a sprinter's build.).

Also, I can't believe I forgot to mention this, but Matt's blue hair is actually his bangs, dyed and tied up with a lockpick.

Dammit, I really need a new scanner. :smallfrown:

He does look rather small, doesn't he? Which is odd because I think of him as a tall person too. I think it's probably a combination of things that causes it; my art style (such as it is) and the fact that I was trying to make him look small next to the intimidating Tinder in dragon form (who I've drawn quite tiny) are probably the main reasons. As far as his nose goes I just made one up that suited my visualisation of him since none of the pictures of him in the comic have a nose, for obvious reasons. I preferred the noses on my pencil sketches of Matt but the family scanner is evil so this fanart is going to be 100% unfortunately.

I'm struggling to get my head around Matt's hair style though: what sort of lockpick are we talking here? Is it like a bent up piece of wire?

EDIT: Ooh! Is it difficult to tell that he's both slouching slightly and leaning back a little (to put some distance between himself and the dragon)? In retrospect all the weird angles in there might make that a little unclear...

[CoffeeIncluded]

He does look rather small, doesn't he? Which is odd because I think of him as a tall person too. I think it's probably a combination of things that causes it; my art style (such as it is) and the fact that I was trying to make him look small next to the intimidating Tinder in dragon form (who I've drawn quite tiny) are probably the main reasons. As far as his nose goes I just made one up that suited my visualisation of him since none of the pictures of him in the comic have a nose, for obvious reasons. I preferred the noses on my pencil sketches of Matt but the family scanner is evil so this fanart is going to be 100% unfortunately.

I'm struggling to get my head around Matt's hair style though: what sort of lockpick are we talking here? Is it like a bent up piece of wire?

It's long but not really pointy like that. And the lockpick's like a cross between a loop and a clip.

Now I want to see what you'd do with Human!Tinder and Serrin, since they're not in this scene.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

It's long but not really pointy like that. And the lockpick's like a cross between a loop and a clip.

Now I want to see what you'd do with Human!Tinder and Serrin, since they're not in this scene.

Actually, Human!Tinder is at the very end of this strip. It's strip no.24# so you get to see his face in the last panel. It'll be interesting to see how you react to it as I sort of went with something a little different for that design. I'm just not sure if I can replicate that on the computer or not...