[3.x] Shax's Haversack updated (Ghostwall Shellac)

[Darrin]

I asked Roland St. Jude to unlock the original Shax's Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) thread so I could update a few things:

* Liquid Ice added to Type I, replacing Freeze Powder. Freeze Powder moved to Lesser Alternatives. Write-ups adjusted for Alchemist's Frost, Frostfire, and Quickfrost.

* Goodberry Wine added to Type II, replacing Healing Salve.

* Tarmak War Paint added to Honorable Mentions. This probably belongs in Type II, but it's really obscure.

* Blister Oil added to Honorable Mentions. Thanks to Dark_Juggernaut for discovering the Blister Oil Bomb.

* Darklight added to Honorable Mentions. One of the best light sources in the game, but requires a psionic user.

* Reference to Colossal Scorpion Poison replaced with Megapede Poison in Aboleth Mucus description. Dungeonscape updated the correct DC and primary/secondary damage so it matches the Colossal Scorpion description in the Monster Manual. All hail Megapede as the deadliest poison in print!

* Added Akal Saris' sneaky little trick with using Luhix as an injury poison, and added a link to the Poison Handbook.

* "Who is Shax?" spoiler block added to first post, in case anyone was curious.

To avoid further thread necromancy, I'd appreciate if you'd add any suggestions/comments/discussions here. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to edit the original posts (are there any rules on thread de-necromancy?).

I'm also quite curious to hear if the Haversack saved anyone's PC, or was used to obliterate something interesting.

[Darrin]

Nothing...?

Bueller... Bueller...?

Ok, well... any ideas on how to abuse Tarmak War Paint?

Tarmak War Paint
Price: 500 GP
Weight: ?? (not listed in description)
(Dragonlance Campaign Setting p. 232)
For those of you who want to get on that whole "Braveheart" kink, here you go. This blue body paint provides a +5 natural armor bonus and fast healing 5. Both effects wear off after it heals 20 HP. This makes it difficult to determine just how long it will last, but even at a minimum of four rounds, +5 NA and fast healing 5 from a non-magical source is astounding, if not outright pushing the boundaries of credibility. If you don't take any damage, the +5 NA bonus could last for days/weeks/etc. This is another prime candidate for a Chaos Flask, if you'd rather pay only 100 GP for this item, although this limits the duration to a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. It should probably belong in a Type II or Type III Haversack, but I'm including it here as an Honorable Mention because of how obscure the sourcebook is (Dragonlance Campaign Setting was released by a 3rd party publisher but with the official D&D trademark license, not the D20 license) and the price is a lot higher than other alchemical items.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 25


So... +5 NA until the fast healing 5 heals 20 HP. Crusaders can shunt damage into Steely Resolve, but I'm not sure how that interacts with Fast Healing. What about combining this with regeneration... does the 20 HP limit count for nonlethal damage?

Other ideas... Blister Oil Bomb. Wear gloves, and put X applications on a vial of atramen oil. Ranged touch attack, target must make DC 19 Fort save or take X amount of damage. That's assuming the ranged touch attack (or pieces of the broken vial) managed to touch bare skin.

Oh... hold on. Net/Lasso + Blister Oil Bomb = dead Tarrasque (well... *mostly dead*, still need a wish to make it stick).

78 vials of Blister Oil applied to a lasso (no size restriction) would do an average of 877.5 nonlethal damage to a Tarrasque. 78 x 15 GP = 1170 GP, + 1 GP for the lasso. Is that right? Blister Oil isn't weapon damage, so does it get past Big T's DR 15/epic?

Still... have to get him to fail a Fort save with a +38 save bonus. So... 20 hirelings (4 GP) with Blister Oil Lassos, law of averages says he'll eventually roll a 1. (1171 x 20) + 4= 23424 GP.

Or Blister Oil Lasso + Sovereign Glue, wait 20+ rounds. 1171 + 2400 = 3571 GP.

[Eldan]

How long does the Warpaint take to apply?

I'd actually try and get a lot of damage reduction alongside it. As long as your DR absorbs the damage going through, you'll be fine. Not really an abuse, though.

[Darrin]

How long does the Warpaint take to apply?


The description doesn't mention this, so I would assume it works just like any other oil: standard action (provokes) to apply.

There's another item I'm considering adding to the Type IV, but have some questions that I was hoping the more rules-savvy could tackle.

Bead of Beckoning (part of the Necklace of the Wild Beast)
Price: 2000 GP
Weight: --
(Arms & Equipment Guide p. 135)



A necklace of this sort appears to be a normal piece of nonvaluable jewelry until it is placed about the neck of a character capable of casting animal friendship.


How exactly does this animal friendship requirement work by 3.5 RAW? Use speak with animals instead?

Does this requirement only apply to identifying the necklace? Is this the only way to identify the necklace? Detect magic, spellcraft, bardic lore, identify, legend lore, etc., should still work, yes?

By a strict reading, I don't see that being a druid/ranger is required to *use* the beads, just to identify the necklace.

If that's the case, then a non-druid/ranger could use this bead as a one-shot to cast Summon Nature's Ally IV. There's a lot of utility in that spell:

Elemental (whirlwind, earth glide)
Unicorn (CLW x3, CMW, neutralize poison)
1d3 Thoqqua (digs permanent tunnels through solid rock)
1d4+1 Dire Badgers (digs permanent tunnels through not-so-solid earth)

[Coidzor]

^: Hmm, I dunno, but at minimum I'd say most DMs would rule it as allowing Ranger, Druid, Spirit Shaman, and Archivist if they're using the divine spellcasting part of it as the basis, or give it to any class with wild empathy or an animal companion... Probably wouldn't extend it to characters with Wild Cohort alone though.
Other ideas... Blister Oil Bomb. Wear gloves, and put X applications on a vial of atramen oil. Ranged touch attack, target must make DC 19 Fort save or take X amount of damage. That's assuming the ranged touch attack (or pieces of the broken vial) managed to touch bare skin.

Oh... hold on. Net/Lasso + Blister Oil Bomb = dead Tarrasque (well... *mostly dead*, still need a wish to make it stick).

78 vials of Blister Oil applied to a lasso (no size restriction) would do an average of 877.5 nonlethal damage to a Tarrasque. 78 x 15 GP = 1170 GP, + 1 GP for the lasso. Is that right? Blister Oil isn't weapon damage, so does it get past Big T's DR 15/epic?

Still... have to get him to fail a Fort save with a +38 save bonus. So... 20 hirelings (4 GP) with Blister Oil Lassos, law of averages says he'll eventually roll a 1. (1171 x 20) + 4= 23424 GP.

Or Blister Oil Lasso + Sovereign Glue, wait 20+ rounds. 1171 + 2400 = 3571 GP.

If you're lassoing the Tarrasque, I think that means you'd be within his reach, wouldn't you? Wait, he only has 20 reach. Whoa. Lasso has 30 for medium creatures, IIRC. So yeah... :smalleek:

If it gets through the DR, which I can't remember... Doesn't matter if all of the applications of the oil stack and so get their damage applied at once rather than piecemeal... I think.

That warpaint does look pretty interesting though. I'll probably be adding some to my next character if I can get it okay'd...

[bokodasu]

How exactly does this animal friendship requirement work by 3.5 RAW? Use speak with animals instead?

I'd rule it would be the ability to have an animal companion, since that's pretty much what animal friendship was all about.

[Darrin]

Some thoughts about level ranges for when to begin assembling/upgrading would be nice...


Assuming a PC has a +1 weapon, +1 armor, and nothing else except a Type I Haversack, that would put him around 5th level by the Wealth By Level table.

After that... assuming a PC devoted 50% of their income to upgrading, Type II might be doable by 7th level, although 8th or 9th seems more reasonable.

Type III is probably more towards 11th or 12th level.

Type IV feels like 15th level might be good, although at that point the pressure to keep upgrading your weapons/armor *and* keep up with your stat-buff items may put a damper on equipment purchases.

However, I don't think too many campaigns pay much attention to Wealth By Level (for generally good reasons... the WBL table can get out of whack really, really quickly). Every DM/group/campaign is going to be a little different.

Other changes I'm considering...

The ability to take out a Tarrasque may warrant moving the Blister Oil to Honorable Mention.

Bead of Beckoning will probably go into DM Consultation.

Another addition I'm considering:

Darklight
Price: 500 GP
Weight: 1#
(Secrets of Sarlona p. 140)

This seems like the ultimate light source: four modes of illumination, free action to switch modes, and the ability to drop shadows/darkness in an 80' radius offers something I've been looking for: a cheaper way to get long-duration concealment from something other than a Smoking weapon (Lords of Darkness p. 180). However, as a general-utility item, there's a snag: it's a psionic item, and needs to be activated with at least 1 power point per day.

I've never managed to get more than a very vague understanding of psionics, so I'm clueless about how a non-psionic can scrape up a regular source of power points to activate this thing. The best I can come up with:

Masterwork Buckler +1 with the Manifesting enhancement (+6000 GP, MIC p. 12). 1/day, draw up to 3 PP from the shield to manifest a psionic power. Can those PP be used to activate items? By a non-psionic user?

[Deth Muncher]

If the original thread is unlocked...why is there this one?

[Darrin]

If the original thread is unlocked...why is there this one?

I was just trying to follow the thread necromancy rules (start a new thread to discuss the old one). I asked Roland to unlock the original thread so I could update it, but I haven't decided if I'm done updating it yet. It may get locked again later.

[Thurbane]

I still can't believe Aboleth Mucus...save or die in a can for 20gp. :smallfrown:

This is why I'm very cautious about allowing 3.0 to mix with 3.5...

[Darrin]

For dealing with incorporeal/ethereal creatures... ghostblight or ghostoil doesn't last all that long, and ghost touch armor is *expensive*... ghost touch weapons are only a +1 enhancement, but armor is +3. So how about...

Ghostwall Shellac
Price: 150 GP
Weight: 1#
(Dungeonscape p. 35)

Ok, this can be spread on any nonliving surface... what about a greatsword or full plate? The item temporarily exists on the ethereal plane, so incorporeal creatures would treat this as a solid object. Lasts 4d6 hours (average 14 hours), so the better part of a day. If you spread this on your armor, do you now get your full armor bonus against incorporeal creatures?

Does that work by RAW, or is that more of a DM's Call?

[Cieyrin]

armor is +3. So how about...

It got downgraded to +1 in Ghostwalk, when they made a specific spell for granting it.


Ghostwall Shellac
Price: 150 GP
Weight: 1#
(Dungeonscape p. 35)

Ok, this can be spread on any nonliving surface... what about a greatsword or full plate? The item temporarily exists on the ethereal plane, so incorporeal creatures would treat this as a solid object. Lasts 4d6 hours (average 14 hours), so the better part of a day. If you spread this on your armor, do you now get your full armor bonus against incorporeal creatures?

Does that work by RAW, or is that more of a DM's Call?

I'm AFB but, if memory serves, all Shellac does it keep incorporeals from passing through it, which may not be the same as interacting and damaging incorporeals. For armor, I could see it making them working but I don't know whether you could render ghosts asunder with a shellac covered weapon. Seems kinda like a DM's call to me.

[Skorj]

For armor, I could see it making them working but I don't know whether you could render ghosts asunder with a shellac covered weapon. Seems kinda like a DM's call to me.

I was just thinking the same. Armor should work, but weapons are more DM's interpretation.

Both this and the War Paint seem completely reasonable to me, because of the cost. Both are nice for a given encounter, but you wouldn't be able to use them constantly (at least, not at a level where they're meaningful). Maybe I just like clever one-shot problem solvers (and the whole concept of the original thread because of that).

[Darrin]

It got downgraded to +1 in Ghostwalk, when they made a specific spell for granting it.


Yes, I saw that in Ghostwalk. The ghost touch armor spell made it into the Spell Compendium, which also has ghost touch weapon, but I'm not sure if that's a reworking of ghost bane weapon.

The change in the cost for the armor enhancement is specific only to the Ghostwalk campaign world. Ghosts/incorporeal are much more common there, so it makes sense to make it more affordable.

There was a Ghost Ward enhancement added to the MIC, however... it allows your enhancement bonus to count towards your touch AC, but not your armor/shield bonus. So maybe that was a nod towards "Yeah, ghost touch armor is too expensive, but we're not going to change it in the DMG." As far as a cheaper version of ghost touch goes... ghost ward is pretty lackluster.


For armor, I could see it making them working but I don't know whether you could render ghosts asunder with a shellac covered weapon. Seems kinda like a DM's call to me.

I was thinking "Ok, you're hitting a ghost with a solid layer of lime-green pasty shellac. *ping*. The ghost doesn't care." Then the description mentions that the shellac causes the object (or at least a portion of it's surface) to exist in the ethereal plane. If I've got an edge of a blade (even just the surface of the blade) that exists in the ethereal plane, then I think I'm cuttin' that ghost asunder.

[The-Mage-King]

Any chances we could get a simple list of the stuff in each type of haversack?

Like-


Name; price; reference
Name 2; price 2; reference 2

-and so on? Because that would make it easier to sort through quickly, and you could put the full explainations into one post, along with a little note about which haversack they're in...

[Darrin]

Any chances we could get a simple list of the stuff in each type of haversack?


I'll put that on my "To Do" list. I'm working on an armor handbook at the moment, but the scope is creeping on me...



I'm AFB but, if memory serves, all Shellac does it keep incorporeals from passing through it, which may not be the same as interacting and damaging incorporeals.

I've been looking at this again, since there's been some confusion between Incorporealness and Etherealness. Skip Williams attempted to clear things up (Rules of the Game: There, Not There Part 1 (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040914a), Part 2 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a), Part 3 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040928a), Part 4 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041005a), Part 5 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041012a), Part 6 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041019a)), and it looks like these articles were written after the Incorporeal template was updated in MMIII. I'll have to take a closer look at these articles when I get home and have more time.

Incorporeal creatures are not automatically considered ethereal. In fact, only ghosts are naturally on the ethereal plane, while other incorporeal undead such as shadows, spectres, and wraiths are not. A ghost only becomes incorporeal (and thus subject to ghost touch effects) when it manifests. While it's just ethereal, a ghost touch weapon/armor wouldn't affect it. When a ghost does manifest, it is still partially ethereal, so ethereal objects (such as those coated with Ghostwall Shellac) should still affect it.

So, I think by RAW I can say this technique works against ghosts and creatures with a miss chance due to etherealness (i.e., blink spell/effect), but not against other incoporeal undead. Against shadows, spectres, and wraiths, the best low-cost option is probably ghostblight or ghostoil.

[Darrin]

So, I've been looking for cheaper ways to deal with incorporeal foes, noodling around some things that can be done with Chaos Flasks and Ectoplasm (Ghostwalk, and also some details available online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030606a)). Originally, I left Ectoplasm out of the haversack because the raw stuff evaporates in 10 minutes and ectoplasmic equipment evaporates in 10 days.

However... a Chaos Flask can be turned into a 0.5 lb of raw ectoplasm. There are two varieties of ectoplasm, slippery and sticky, and they have a few interesting applications:

A creature covered in slippery ectoplasm gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks. However, the amount required (10 lbs for a medium creature, 5 lbs for a small creature) is impractical to make via Chaos Flasks (2000 GP for 10 lbs, 1000 GP for 5 lbs).

Putting slippery ectoplasm on your feet gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Move Silently, although you may have to make Balance checks depending on how far you move.

Sticky ectoplasm applied to your hands gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Climb checks.

If sticky ectoplasm is placed on a weapon, it's treated as a ghost touch weapon, but it only deals half damage. This seems like it might be a much better alternative to Ghostblight or Ghost Oil. Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has Ghost Touch Oil that lasts 10 rounds, but it costs 500 GP. One Chaos Flask (I assume 0.5 lbs is enough to coat most weapons) turned into sticky ectoplasm would last a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom score. Assuming average Wisdom = 10, you'd get at least 10 rounds of ghost touch, 7 more rounds than Ghostblight.

However, I'm not sure how the "half damage" would be calculated... is that just the *weapon damage*, or the entire damage, including Strength bonus, energy damage, spell effects, feats, power attack, etc. If it's half of all damage, then math-wise it's not really any better than a 50% miss chance (unless you've got some other effect on the weapon that isn't explicitly damage, such as stunning, disrupting, spell storing, etc.).

Does "but it deals only half damage" mean it = just the weapon itself? If it said "you deal only half damage", then that would presumably be all damage, not just from the weapon. Are there any other RAW/FAQ examples of how "half damage" is calculated for other effects? Or am I just splitting semantic hairs?

Unfortunately, the sticky version doesn't appear to be applicable to armor.

Rather than coat a weapon with ectoplasm, though, you can just use the Chaos Flask to create an ectoplasmic weapon. Then it occurred to me, why stop there, just create a dagger made out of astral driftmetal. There are a couple of problems with this, however:

1) Can anyone find an official price for weapons or non-armor objects made out of astral driftmetal? The Planar Handbook is the most recent source for this material, but it only lists one price: +12000 GP for armor (limited to breastplate, shield, or any heavy armor). Expensive, yes, but actually cheaper than buying ghost touch armor +1 (+4 enhancement bonus = 16000 GP).

2) The Chaos Flask description says it can make a diminuative-sized metal or stone object. This means the biggest weapon you could create with one flask would be a light weapon for a small-sized character (per the SRD, "a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder").

Even so, that means one Chaos Flask can create a small-sized shortsword (-2 size penalty, 1d4 damage) out of any non-magical material: mithral, adamantine, astral driftmetal, etc. (I'm assuming riverine lights up on detect magic like a Christmas tree). Two flasks can probably be combined to make a medium-sized shortsword.

Another possible solution for ghost touch armor: potion of ghost touch armor (Spell Compendium, Clr/Sor/Wiz 2) only costs 300 GP, lasts 30 rounds.

And then I started looking at ectoplasmic equipment, which costs 5 GP per lb. Check this out:

Ectoplasmic Full Plate, 50 lbs x 5 GP = 250 GP.
Masterwork, +150 GP
Unguent of Timelessness, +150 GP
Total: 550 GP

375 days of masterwork full plate for only 33% of the cost. You can enchant it, too. After the unguent wears off, you can add more unguent for another year, for up to 10 years. And while we're in the neighborhood:

Ectoplasmic Full Sectioned Armor = 600 GP
Ectoplasmic Masterwork Heavy Plate = 800 GP
Ectoplasmic Masterwork Mechanus Gear = 675 GP

Does anyone know if there's any official ruling on whether druids can wear ectoplasmic armor? I can't find anything in print that says ectoplasm = metal, but I'm not sure the ectoplasm in Ghostwalk is the same stuff in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

[Akal Saris]

I'm tickled that Luhix made it into the guide :smallbiggrin:

I don't remember if Sleep-Smoke from Waterdeep: City of Splendors was ever considered. Quite a wide AOE of save-or-sleep that lasts for 2 rounds, and only 25g to purchase.

[Darrin]

I don't remember if Sleep-Smoke from Waterdeep: City of Splendors was ever considered. Quite a wide AOE of save-or-sleep that lasts for 2 rounds, and only 25g to purchase.

Yes, I did consider it, but I wasn't able to find any alchemical-sleep items that I liked. Sleep-Smoke is certainly cheap, but I had two problems with it: I thought DC 15 was too low to consider it practical, and the 20' diameter cloud could run the risk of putting some of your allies to sleep.

However... actually, 25 GP for a DC 15 poison is a really, really great bargain. And the 20' diameter is only 4 x 4 squares. Other party members familiar with how the cloud expands should be able to avoid it fairly easily (or Auran masks are fairly cheap, too). As a comparison, drow sleep poison is DC 17 for 75 GP.

Soften a target up with a hit of Atramen Oil, and the Sleep-Smoke DC goes up to 19. I don't see Atramen Oil in your poison handbook...

[Coidzor]

Well, this line suggests that metal gear would have ectoplasmic wood substituted for it, like how certain medium and heavier armors can be made of wood in Races of the Wild and I think one of the Eberron books.
(buckles, buttons, and other small parts that would normally be made out of metal are instead made of ectoplasmic wood but are sufficient for this purpose)

From the feat Shape Ectoplasm [Ghost, Shaper] at the bottom of this page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030606a)you linked.

[Darrin]

Well, this line suggests that metal gear would have ectoplasmic wood substituted for it, like how certain medium and heavier armors can be made of wood in Races of the Wild and I think one of the Eberron books.

From the feat Shape Ectoplasm [Ghost, Shaper] at the bottom of this page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030606a)you linked.

Shape Ectoplasm makes metallic items out of ectoplasmic wood because that's the hardest material you can shape with that feat. There's another feat called Temper Ectoplasm that lets you shape harder materials, the equivalent of stone, crystal, and metal.

After looking at the cost for Ectoplasmic Equipment again (Ghostwalk p. 44), I noticed there's a plus sign in front of that 5 GP/pound. So I would have to conclude that the cost for ectoplasmic equipment is +5 GP/lb in addition to the normal cost for that item. Thus, ectoplasmic full plate would be 1500 GP + 250 GP = 1750 GP, or 1900 GP for masterwork. This makes more sense than only paying 250 GP for full plate.

Still, that's horrendously cheaper than paying for ghost touch armor (+4 enhancement = 16000 GP). I can't find anything in Ghostwalk about how druids might treat ectoplasmic armor. If the ectoplasm has the same consistency/hardness of metal, does it count as metal for a druid's oath?

[Darrin]

Added to the Honorable Mention section:

Messenger Arrow
Price: 400 GP
Weight: 0.1#
(Ghostwalk Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030607a) p. 8)
This one-shot arrow or bolt can be used to cast helping hand, which can locate *any* target within 100' in 1 round. This can be used to locate invisible or hidden creatures, even those with the Darkstalker feat. Heck, it's also an evocation spell, so it works against obscure object, sequester, and mind blank. For another +160 GP, you can add the Spell Storing property and trigger a faerie fire or glitterdust when the arrow lands (you can also do this by attaching a keyed Glyph Seal to the arrow, 1000 GP, MIC p. 161).

[Endarire]

Any other updates in Haversack land?

[Darrin]

Not since Messenger Arrow. Most everything new wound up in Honorable Mentions (possibly because recalculating the upgrade costs/weights for each type can be a pain in the Acererak).

Right now most of my time is getting sucked up into an Armor Handbook. Actually, I need to tweak a few entries after I discovered another ghost oil alternative... Ectoplasmic Ichor (500 GP, Libris Mortis p. 78) grants the ghost touch property and lasts 1 hour.

After that, I promised The-Mage-King a simpler line-by-line breakdown of the contents. Actually, the fact that I don't have it in at least a spreadsheet format by now is exceedingly puzzling...

I still feel bad for not including some of Akal Saris poison/sleep suggestions. I should probably add a few of the cheaper poisons.

I was hoping for more comments about Ghostwall Shellac or Bead of Beckoning. I think I've beaten the "how do I deal with incorporeal creatures" issue to death (which I'll probably go into more detail with the Armor Handbook, if it ever gets finished). I *love* summons for swiss-army work-arounds, but running a summoner is a lot of bookkeeping and sucks up a lot of table-time. Being able to put that same kind of utility in the hands of a non-spellcaster, even as just a one-shot, would be loads of fun.

Does anyone have any stories/examples where Shax's Haversack or one of the recommended items/uses saved a PC? I'd love to hear if anyone was able to actually bought a Type I/II/III/IV "off the shelf" and it came in handy.

[borg286]

Just wanted to get an update.
Does anybody have a list of mundane/low level stuff they refer to.
This list was invaluable, and i'd like to make a collection of this kind of stuff. I see some lists, but they just seem incomplete.
Anything McGuyver, Artificer, Batman(not high level wizard type), Alchemist, crafter would be helpful.

[Omeganaut]

Hammer
Price: 5 SP
Weight: --
(PHB)
Can't touch this. Also, useful for spiking doors and driving in pitons.

Hammers weigh 2 lbs by PHB


Still, that's horrendously cheaper than paying for ghost touch armor (+4 enhancement = 16000 GP). I can't find anything in Ghostwalk about how druids might treat ectoplasmic armor. If the ectoplasm has the same consistency/hardness of metal, does it count as metal for a druid's oath?

Druids can use it as long as its made from wood and not from metal.

However, I love the thread, and I will definitely be using it for character creation in the future, even if I don't use everything.

Just noticed the date, I apologize for any thread necromancy.

[Gardener]

Re the Darklight: Any character can blow a feat on Wild Talent to get a power point reserve of 1pp. Some races, such as elans or kalashtar, get free pp as a racial feature. And, of course, the psionic classes get quite large amounts of pp as they level - a level 20 Psion or Wilder has 343 pp before bonuses from a high ability score.

I'd say it warrants an honourable mention - very good for anyone with a pp reserve greater than 1, but probably not worthwhile for nonspionic characters.

[Doc Roc]

Did you ever hunt down firewine?

[The Random NPC]

I believe there is a flask of sunlight type item in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. I've heard that it is 20gp for a nonmagical everburning torch.
Edit:
Liquid Sunlight from Complete Scoundrel is an alchemical item that glows like a torch, and is ment to hurt light sensitive creatures.

[Rubik]

Check the rod of ropes, from Complete Scoundrel.

[Agent 451]

Practice necromancy much?

[Rubik]

Practice necromancy much?'Twould be impossible to reply without doing so, and making a new thread is unfeasible, at best. What else would you have me do? It's a valuable thread, and adding to it is adding to the community.

Also, why isn't Heward's Handy Haversack on here? Or Heward's Fortifying Bedroll?

And does anyone else have suggestions?

[Agent 451]

Wasn't trying to sound facetious, apologies if I did.

[ShriekingDrake]

I have the same raise dead discussions with myself from time to time. The thread is great, not yet closed, and I have something relevant to say. And, starting a new thread is out of context.

This is a good thread, but I'm clearly not a good judge of when to breathe life into oldish threads.

[Cieyrin]

'Twould be impossible to reply without doing so, and making a new thread is unfeasible, at best. What else would you have me do? It's a valuable thread, and adding to it is adding to the community.

Also, why isn't Heward's Handy Haversack on here? Or Heward's Fortifying Bedroll?

And does anyone else have suggestions?

PM the original author (Darrin is still around and active on the forums) or link back to this and Shax's haversack in a new thread is the usual procedure. As for the Haversack, Shax's Haversack IS a Handy Haversack. Darrin designed each haversack with its size and weight consideration in mind, hence if the Bedroll isn't included, it's b/c it's too big to fit in the Haversack.

[Darrin]

Hammers weigh 2 lbs by PHB


I do not know how I missed that before. Good catch.


Did you ever hunt down firewine?

Apparently not. But yes, I do have Jhuild in the drugs/poison section... at least, the Lords of Darkness version, which was called "Thrallwine".

I wasn't aware it was updated in Unapproachable East to "Rashemi Firewine". The mechanics are mostly the same... 1 point of Wis damage, then gain a +2 bonus to Strength for 2 hours. But now after the Str bonus wears off, there's a Fort save DC 20 vs. falling unconscious for 3d4 hours, and there's a -2 penalty on attacks, saves, and skill checks for 12 hours that is apparently unavoidable. The price has changed: bottle is 70-100 GP.

Hmmm. Interesting debuff, but it takes 2 hours for the -2 penalty to kick in. The rules for it don't quite conform to the drug rules in Lords of Darkness. I'm not sure how the unconsciousness or -2 penalty can really be put to use... I guess I prefer the Lords of Darkness version.



Liquid Sunlight from Complete Scoundrel is an alchemical item that glows like a torch, and is ment to hurt light sensitive creatures.

Alchemical Sun Flash (from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) already does the same thing... actually more, since it has splash damage, deals fire damage to all creatures, and actually staggers vampires as well as dazzles. Liquid Sunlight is a bit cheaper (30 GP), but I think the Alchemical Sun Flash (50 GP) is better bang for your buck.


Check the rod of ropes, from Complete Scoundrel.

Very nice... hadn't really looked at that magic item before. A solid Type IV pick, and I like the move action to activate, you don't see a lot of those. I love the bull rush attack (battlefield control!). However, most of the rest of what it can do is probably already covered by Troll Gut Rope and Shapesand.



Also, why isn't Heward's Handy Haversack on here? Or Heward's Fortifying Bedroll?


The cost of the Handy Haversack is included in the total for each type. Except for the hammer, which adds 2 lbs, I added/removed items from each type so everything fits in one Handy Haversack. Ideally, I would imagine most adventures have a Haversack for things they need to get to quickly, and a Bag of Holding for loot and/or items they don't need immediately.

I opted to include the Magic Bedroll (500 GP, MIC version) to the Type II Haversack because it seemed more like a "general purpose" item rather than the Fortifying Bedroll, which might be better suited to spellcasters... although the "gain 8 hours of rest after 1 hour" I suppose could benefit even non-spellcasters. The Magic Bedroll also works every time you use it, while the Fortifying Bedroll has that annoying "48 hour" recharge thing to deal with. It also costs 3000 GP, which would put it into the neighborhood of a Type IV Haversack... However, it only weighs 2 lbs, which makes it the lightest of any bedroll in print (and provides enough room for that 2 lbs of hammer I forgot to factor in).

The Complete MacGuyver (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11066.0) handbook over on BG compiled by Borg286 may have more recent equipment advice/suggestions, although a good chunk of it is taken directly from Shax. I'm not sure if it's still being updated, though... I don't think it's been moved over to the Minmax boards.

Bunko's Bargain Basement (3.0) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1002) *was* updated recently on the Minmax boards, but I'm not sure how much was changed.

I'm currently happy with Shax's list as it is now... although that 2 lb. hammer thing is going to gnaw away at me. I'm still working on a big armor handbook that's sorta half-done, but I'm still debating whether or not I should finish it.

[The Random NPC]

The real advantage of Liquid Sunlight is that it is a 30GP everburning torch.

[Darrin]

The real advantage of Liquid Sunlight is that it is a 30GP everburning torch.

Not by my reading:

"The liquid continues to glow with the light of a torch for 1 round after exposure to the air."

Lasts 1 round, near as I can tell. Did I miss something?

Ah, now I see it: it glows *before* you throw it... so never throw it, and you always have a source of light:

"Shining with the light of a torch, a pellet of liquid sunlight is a half-inch-diameter sphere of glass that contains a gold-colored liquid."

Hmmm. Not sure I agree that's RAW, since RAI seems somewhat clear. If that's the way it works, though... much cheaper than a grey ioun stone + continual flame.

[The Random NPC]

It's been awhile since I last read it, but I recall comming to the conclusion that it works. I'll check my books when I get off work.

Edit: It seems to mix fluff with crunch, and says it shines with the light of a torch. In my opinion, that is just vague enough to go either way.

[Rubik]

Check the night hag's entry in the Monster Manual, and look at its heartstone (especially the price tag, which, according to Savage Species, is its full market price). Now look at the entry for UMD. Now combine them and see what happens.

It deserves an honorable mention AT LEAST, even if it doesn't go into your haversack.

[Endarire]

This should so be a Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=77.0)!

[Azraile]

This is awsome:

Dust of Dryness

Aura moderate transmutation; CL 11th

Slot —; Price 850 gp; Weight —
Description

This special dust has many uses. If it is thrown into water, a volume of as much as 100 gallons is instantly transformed into nothingness, and the dust becomes a marble-sized pellet, floating or resting where it was thrown. If this pellet is hurled, it breaks and releases the same volume of water. The dust affects only water (fresh, salt, alkaline), not other liquids.

If the dust is employed against an outsider with the elemental and water subtypes, the creature must make a DC 18 Fortitude save or be destroyed. The dust deals 5d6 points of damage to the creature even if its saving throw succeeds.
Construction Requirements

Craft Wondrous Item, control water; Cost 425 gp



For one... It could be argued this could work with holly water. And that is...... ridiculous. Though the cost of making any large amount of holly water is ridiculous anyway, so if they want to dump an obssurd amount of gold into one shorting a vampire lord, then hey least they put the time and money into it.... lol

The other uses come to the kind of ones that can be replicated by the Decanter of Endless Water but sooner.

But the water is released when it brakes, and it will always brake on the first thing it hits if you throw it....

getting some one to swallow it or throwing it down the throat of a large creature? Yah the Aboleth Mucus works better for suficating some one..... but you don't get the same kinda damage as sudently there being 100 gallons of water per item inside there belly. And it's just so much cooler than covering them in muck.

Especially if you freeze it....... and while still inside them >.>




I am not sure what the damage would be on Ice bursting your lungs apart would do..... but it can't be good.

[Azraile]

There is also something you could add to feather token, tree.

It instantly creates a great oak that's 5 feet wide, 60 feet
hight, 40 feet wide branches

Now try throwing that in some ones house. >.>

Dropping one at some ones feet is crazy, but just think of the structual damage you can do with one... or a few of these?

particularly if thrown with some fire/oil stuff too

[Rubik]

How about a few dollops of quintessence? The stuff is fragile but lasts indefinitely, and it can hold anything it can envelop in perfect stasis forever, which can definitely come in handy, and it costs 280 gp per manifestation.

[Deophaun]

I was unaware you could use dust of dryness for necromancy. Now I know.

As for getting large amounts of holly water, just get a bunch of infusers and put the sprigs in them over night. No big deal.

[The Random NPC]

FYI 100 gallons is about half a coffin/caskets worth of water.

[Darrin]

FYI 100 gallons is about half a coffin/caskets worth of water.

I have looked at the Dust of Dryness before... it's in the "Lesser Alternatives, Items to Avoid, and Disappointments" section. There's some math in there about trying to fill a 5' x 5' pit, and 100 gallons only gets you about 6 inches. Thirsty Sand (Sandstorm) can absorb a much higher volume, but it's still too expensive. It's cheaper to buy a Waterskin of Deluge (12350 GP, Sandstorm) or a one-shot item of flashflood.

The Feather Tokens could probably use a mini-guide of their own. I've said before they have hundreds of different uses, but when I try to list them, all I can come up with is the obvious stuff:

1) drop on an enemy from above
2) counter to "swallow whole"
3) put in front of/underneath flying creature

Quintessence I need to take a closer look at. I'm only familiar with it via the Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?121334), but there's something to be said for anything that squidfaced cthulhu-beasties will suck your brains out to get ahold of it.

[Troacctid]

In the case of tree tokens, I think the most obvious use is creating easily climbable terrain that is also ten times as tall as a typical ladder.