Hiding in Armor: How would you rule it?

[Qwertystop]

How would you, as a DM, rule the following situation:

A Tiny creature hovering at head-height inside a suit of armor (made for humans) (probably full plate). Would you rule that the creature inside:
A) Uses the armor as any normal creature would use armor, gaining the normal AC and AC penalty.
B) The armor is treated as an object, and people are dealing damage directly to the armor as an object, not the character, and the character is hiding inside the armor, gaining cover and concealment (for himself, the armor obviously does not have concealment or cover)
C) Other.

The creature's natural mode of movement is hovering up to 5 ft. above the ground (counts as land-speed unhampered by rough terrain), so the hovering takes no extra actions or anything.

I am thinking of doing this in a game, and I want a good idea of what people would say, both as a "sensible use of the rules" choice and your RAW choice.

EDIT: Also, would you rule that the creature can make touch attacks (normally, it can make touch attacks for 1d6 electricity damage) by floating into the empty hand-space (probably no gauntlets).

Another EDIT: It's a Ghostlight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9699241&postcount=949), if that helps your decision.

[Sipex]

This is really up to DM interpretation.

It would depend on how much health your character has, what their primary means of attacking are, etc. If they're normally weak I'd give the armor it's own health and have it deteriorate as it was attacked.

[Qwertystop]

It's a Ghostlight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9699241&postcount=949), if that helps your decision.

[Lev]

Ask your DM.
I would rule the helmet as being an object-- like someone hiding inside a crate.

Though, it's made of metal and not secured, so damaging the object probably would bash the creature inside.

I'd give it concealment depending on config and line of sight, but I would also have reasonable hits deal bludgeoning damage. An arrow might not do much, but a sledgehammer would.

[Quietus]

Depends on the telekinetic effect in question. I'd certainly give large amounts of cover, probably 9/10ths if it had the face guard down so all it had was little slits, or just regular cover if it has an open face. In order to make touch effects, it actually has to *touch* targets, though - which means, being Tiny sized, it has to enter the target's space.

Really, a lot of this depends on how the telekinetic effect works, though. If it's just a Mage Hand type effect, anyone could simply pick up the helmet and take away your cover. If it's a more powerful effect, then it's probably involving some kind of concentration, which is gonna suck a lot.

[Diarmuid]

I dont see where the Ghostlight's natural movement would allow for the armor to move along with it without any additional actions being taken.

I'm also confused by the whole "No Hands" entry and then the subsequent entries dealing with the Touch attack. As written, No Hands says "you cannot Touch anything", so you've got a bit of a contradiction on your hands.

[Quietus]

I dont see where the Ghostlight's natural movement would allow for the armor to move along with it without any additional actions being taken.

I'm also confused by the whole "No Hands" entry and then the subsequent entries dealing with the Touch attack. As written, No Hands says "you cannot Touch anything", so you've got a bit of a contradiction on your hands.

I'm guessing it'd be more like a full-body check?

[Qwertystop]

I dont see where the Ghostlight's natural movement would allow for the armor to move along with it without any additional actions being taken.

Good point, I'll remove the bit about moving inside the armor. It is now just hiding inside a suit of armor, for the purposes of this question.


I'm also confused by the whole "No Hands" entry and then the subsequent entries dealing with the Touch attack. As written, No Hands says "you cannot Touch anything", so you've got a bit of a contradiction on your hands.
You are essentially banging into them.

[Diarmuid]

I'm just trying to look at this from a RAW standpoint. The creature doesnt have any natural weapons with which to be proficient in, so would making these "touch" attacks be considered bull rushes? Do they provoke attacks of opportunity?

How would you make such a touch attack from within the confines of the armor without leaving the armor?

[Hawriel]

A tiny critter like say a cat or pixie could not hover in the armor. Not enough room for the wings to beat. Take a cat stuff it in a football helmet. However a tiny creature can sit inside it. there is enough room in a helm to squeze into and sit snuggly. you can even brace yourself inside the torso area.

This armor is standing? Like a decoration? So it has some kind of stand inside it. Again get a football helmet stand it on a broom stick then shove a cat in it. What kind of helm is this? lobster tail open faced helm? A great helm? A visored helm? open faced with nose guard and chain mail neck protection?


How did you get inside? yes I know its not a space suit. Depending on what kind of armor it is determines how big a hole you have to crawl through. And whare.

Would you have consealment? Definetly. I would give full. If it was a great helm or vizord helm. would give 3/4 or so if an open faced helm. If and when you try to look out of the helm.

Any one in the room would have to roll a listen vs move silently. In order to get in it would be a climb check, with a dex to not knock the suit over or sag. A perseption check for some one to notice weather the armor has been disturbed. Any movment wile in the armor would requir a climb/balance and move silently check with full armor check penalties of the armor.

I would not give a cover mod for being attacked. I would give an AC bonus for the part of the armor you where in. If its a helm I would give +2, if in the chest +5. +5 because of the arms, after the first round down to +4. However you would be flat footed. Uncanny dodge or evasion would not apply.

edit.
Just red the ghostlight homebrew.
NO. You can hide in armor. You cannot move it around. You are a light. It sais under the no hands entry that you cannot carry any thing. However sence your a big ball of light the size of a cabbage there would be huge bonusses to see you in side the armor. Your a big damn ball of light :smallannoyed: I would not even give you consealment. There is light shining out of the helm of that suit of armor? What the hell? :smallconfused:

[ericgrau]

IMO it's cover, +4 AC. If there's barely any crack to attack through, including full plate, it's improved cover, +8 AC. If the target's mobility is limited and/or it's reasonable for the attacker to locate the creature and stab through the armor to hit him I'd give a much lower bonus. IMO a creature 1 or 2 size categories smaller than the armor would reduce the bonus, but not 3 categories.

[kyoryu]

IMO it's cover, +4 AC. If there's barely any crack to attack through, including full plate, it's improved cover, +8 AC. If the target's mobility is limited and/or it's reasonable for the attacker to locate the creature and stab through the armor to hit him I'd give a much lower bonus. IMO a creature 1 or 2 size categories smaller than the armor would reduce the bonus, but not 3 categories.

I'd agree with this, so long as the attacker realized what was going on. If the attacker is unaware that there's a hiding creature in there, I'd probably rule some percentage chance of randomly hitting the right area of the suit and getting some feedback that there's a creature in there.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd ask how he's carrying around a suit of armor which weighs some fifty times what he does to set up this ruse in the first place.

Then I'd point out that hardness/hit points of armor really stinks, if you are using object rules, and that any blowthrough damage would be targeting him.

Then I'd point out that the little fellah would effectively be *trapped* within said suit of armor, and unable to move unless an ally helps him out of it, since he doesn't have the hands necessary to lift the visor of the helmet, nor the strength to lift it while hovering.