PDA

View Full Version : Multiple Thrown Attacks and Quick Draw



kkortekaas
2010-11-09, 03:44 PM
I've got a problem with one of my player's character concepts and I'm having difficulty articulating the problem too him.

We're using Iron Heroes (a D&D 3.5 Alternative although many of the mechanics are the same.) and he plans on making a dagger thrower and benefiting from the following feat(s).

-----------------------------------------------------------
RAZOR FIEND [FINESSE]
You wield daggers with lethal speed and precision. You deliver a storm of metal with your throwing daggers, while in close combat you slash your opponents into bloody ribbons.

Base Mastery: 1

Prerequisite: Dagger. To gain this feat’s benefits, you must be proficient with the dagger you wield.

Benefit: In your hands, a dagger becomes a blur of lethal metal. You gain the benefits of the Quick Draw general feat (see page 117) with all daggers. In combat, you may take an additional attack when you use a full attack action while armed only with one or two daggers. You gain this benefit when using a dagger in a ranged or melee attack. However, these attacks trade speed for hitting power. You make the bonus attack at your highest base attack bonus, but all of your attacks (including the bonus attack) suffer a –2 penalty. You gain only half your Strength bonus to damage when you fight in this manner. These penalties last until the beginning of your next action.

Special: When using Razor Fiend to gain additional attacks, you receive only half the normal bonus damage from any Power feats you use.
-----------------------------------------------------------
QUICK DRAW [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can ready a weapon much faster than normal. You may draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see “Sleight of Hand” in Chapter Four) as a move action. A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at her full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action and draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Now, my understanding of this is as follows, he starts with a dagger in each hand, throws them both and then quickdraws another dagger and throws it as well resulting in him being weaponless at the end of the round.

My difficulty in this, is that come the next round, he feels like he should be able to essentially quick draw 3 daggers.

For whatever reason, I've got difficulty seeing a 1st level character pulling off being able to do this.

Am I crazy?

Zeofar
2010-11-09, 03:50 PM
Wait... huh? Shouldn't it depend solely on how many daggers he has? If he's throwing 3 daggers a round, 3 will last one round, 6 will last 2, 9 will last 3, etc.

Maybe I'm seeing your point now: quick draw allows you to draw 3 daggers in a round, yes. They are free actions. As the DM, you can technically limit him on this, but it is hardly overpowered or unrealistic for a first level character as long as the daggers aren't stowed away in a pack or something.

Marnath
2010-11-09, 03:50 PM
QUICK DRAW [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1
Benefit: You can ready a weapon much faster than normal. You may draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see “Sleight of Hand” in Chapter Four) as a move action. A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at her full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action and draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.


Seems pretty clear to me that he could quick draw the three daggers a round. It says "much like a character with a bow" and an archer has to draw all his arrows singly usually, so I don't see a difference.

AtwasAwamps
2010-11-09, 03:53 PM
Am I crazy?

Yep.

Drawing a weapon is a free action when you have quick draw. As long as he has hands free and weapons to draw, he can draw them. Quickly. Cause he's quick like that.

Zeofar
2010-11-09, 03:56 PM
Yeah, it also becomes easier to visualize if you see it like this:
1. Throw Dagger A
2. Grab Dagger C while throwing Dagger B
3. Grab Dagger D while throwing Dagger C
4. Grab Dagger E while throwing Dagger D
5. Repeat until one side dies.

kkortekaas
2010-11-09, 04:02 PM
Fair enough, thanks for you input guys

Kyouhen
2010-11-09, 05:38 PM
Wait, can you even throw multiple daggers just by wielding one in each hand? I think at level 1 he'd only be able to throw 2 daggers (his normal attack +1 for the razor fiend). Unless he has something else that gives him that extra attack I don't think he can go through 3 daggers in one turn.

That said, yes, quick draw lets him go through weapons that quickly. In fact, since it's a free action I believe he can throw his 3 daggers then draw 2 more right after before he ends his turn.

Greenish
2010-11-09, 06:04 PM
Wait, can you even throw multiple daggers just by wielding one in each hand? I think at level 1 he'd only be able to throw 2 daggers (his normal attack +1 for the razor fiend). Unless he has something else that gives him that extra attack I don't think he can go through 3 daggers in one turn.Two-weapon fighting.

Last Laugh
2010-11-09, 07:52 PM
Also, he doesn't have to be weaponless at the end of the round. After throwing all 3 of his daggers (at a -4 penalty?) he should be free to drawn 1 more (or 2, or 12 and drop them all at his feet).

This is only important so that he can still threaten the area around him. (if this rules is gone in Iron Heroes than disregard please)

Susano-wo
2010-11-09, 08:16 PM
yeah, he will take some nasty penalties throwing three daggers without TWF feat. he should probably take that if he is human

kkortekaas
2010-11-10, 07:54 AM
It's planned for level 2 (the feat aquisition system works a bit differently in IH) which will make his dagger thrower much more viable.

He's currently got a -12 penalty applied to his 6 atk bonus on the 3rd dagger.