PDA

View Full Version : Manipulative class



Qwertystop
2010-11-10, 01:10 PM
Is there a base class in 3.5, either core or in one of the "complete" books, that is a very manipulating-people sort of idea?

Urpriest
2010-11-10, 01:12 PM
Master of the Unseen Hand is very good at manipulating people, depending on how literal you want to be.

Edit: This joke doesn't work, you said base class. For a serious answer, Beguiler is tailor-made for this, in the PHB II

Edit: Which isn't one of your listed sources. Bard is probably the closest you'll get, with Warlock and Psion(telepath) giving their own flavors to the concept.

Kylarra
2010-11-10, 01:14 PM
Bard is in Core.
Beguiler is PHB 2.
Warlock is C. Arcane.

really any cha-based class would do though.

zephyrkinetic
2010-11-10, 01:15 PM
The Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel books have a few options, depending on what other fluff you want.

Qwertystop
2010-11-10, 01:18 PM
I could find the PHBII if it seems worth it. What is the class like?

mangosta71
2010-11-10, 01:23 PM
Depends on how you want to manipulate people. A wizard specializing in enchantment or a psion focusing on telepathy powers could be suitable.

Magic Myrmidon
2010-11-10, 01:23 PM
Beguiler's pretty awesome. They're based almost entirely off of being sneaky and spellcasty. They have a premade list of spells that draw almost solely from enchantment and illusion schools, they get silent and still spell feats for free, and can wear light armor with no Spell failure.

Basically... tailor-made for what you want.

bokodasu
2010-11-10, 01:27 PM
I haven't played one yet, but I was just reading the PHBII and they look pretty fun. Spontaneous casting off the Beguiler list (which looks pretty good as far as illusion/mind control spells go, and you get all the level's spells when you gain that level), some rogue-y features, including trapfinding and a spellcasting ability kind of like sneak attack, and 6+Int skills. I guess it's kind of MAD, but I still want to play one.

Psyren
2010-11-10, 01:34 PM
I haven't played one yet, but I was just reading the PHBII and they look pretty fun. Spontaneous casting off the Beguiler list (which looks pretty good as far as illusion/mind control spells go, and you get all the level's spells when you gain that level), some rogue-y features, including trapfinding and a spellcasting ability kind of like sneak attack, and 6+Int skills. I guess it's kind of MAD, but I still want to play one.

Nah, they're not MAD. Even with a lower Dex, their Int and spells can pick up the slack. (e.g. crazy-high Open Lock and Hide scores aren't a priority when you can cast Knock and Invisibility.)

I'll second Warlock though because they're so easy to play. (I really want to be a creepy Ghostwise Halfling Warlock that eventually slips into Child of Night...)

gorfnab
2010-11-10, 02:53 PM
I could find the PHBII if it seems worth it. What is the class like?
Here's a handbook that explains what the Beguiler is capable of: New Beguiler's Handbook
(http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2322.0)

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-10, 03:31 PM
If you don't mind your "manipulation" coming from spells rather then a high charisma and diplomancy then a wizard focused on Enchantment or even illusion is a possibility. Another idea, while not as mainstream is an Archavest/Dracolyte who uses that class' prestige domain to get True Dominate and Monstrous thrall and then uses scribe scroll on them allowing you to record them into your prayer book and cast them as many times as you want to prepare them. In addition you can most likely find plenty of other divine spells that can act a lot like the mind control the arcane list possesses, including Dominate person as a level 4 instead of it's usual level of 5 via the Paladin of Tyranny list. You can also use the druid list to dominate and charm animals as well as humanoids and monsters, if you so chose.

Also, if you really want to be able to do some diplomancy an enchantment wizard can just throw around charm person spells to make everybody love him and an archivist gets diplomacy as a class skill(and ranks in diplomacy are part of the Dracolyte entry..who would have thought things would work out like this. XD) so all you really need to do is use the academic priest feat which makes you 100% SAD meaning you can dumb wisdom and thus afford to put more extra points into charisma. You won't have as high a charisma as any true cha focused class but your a full caster and if you really need to get something you want just use suggestion, command, charm person, Geas ect...or just slap on an eagle's splendor and actually put on that + charisma cloak you where holding onto for selling purposes, making it actually useful to you for once.

So while it's not quite smooth talking enchantment specialized wizards and archivists/dracolytes(Or just strait archivist if your DM is very generous with scrolls and you can somehow get monstrous thrall and the other domination domain spells in that manner.) can be quire manipulative and get better high level mind control spells then a beguiler dose.(Monstrous Thrall and Mind Rape are both FAR better mind controllers then Dominate Monster, though the latter is good too.)

Of course any class that is charisma based works great as a manipulator and most of the best ones have been listed here already. Beguilers get a special nod from me as well, though. They are great at being tricky and manipulative and really fit what your looking for.

Qwertystop
2010-11-10, 03:37 PM
Thanks everyone, I think I'll go with Beguiler because I want to be manipulative from 1st level, not have to take a few levels in a multiclass.

Frosty
2010-11-10, 03:44 PM
PHB2 is win. Go get it. And Beguilers are more SAD than MAD. You want Int and Con (all classes want Con) and the rest are just gravy.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-10, 04:52 PM
Beguiler is fun, glad you decided on it. Personally I could never play one, I'm not social enough. :smallfrown:

Psyren
2010-11-10, 05:00 PM
Beguiler is fun, glad you decided on it. Personally I could never play one, I'm not social enough. :smallfrown:

Actually, I see that as being the best kind of Beguiler. If you were friendly and outgoing you'd be a Bard; Beguilers are sneaky, subtle and rely on cunning and magic to tricky people.

In short, if the people you adventure with know that you're a Beguiler, you're doing it wrong :smallamused:

@ OP: Beguiler is definitely the best choice; you just threw off some folks (including me) when you said "Core + Completes" because Beguilers are neither.

(Well, PHB2 and DMG2 could theoretically be "expanded core.")

mikeejimbo
2010-11-10, 05:20 PM
True, but Bluff is social and necessary for subtlety and sneakiness.

My "creative" uses of spells never seem to work, either.

Psyren
2010-11-10, 05:28 PM
True, but Bluff is social and necessary for subtlety and sneakiness.

My "creative" uses of spells never seem to work, either.

Beguilers get Glibness :smallwink: There are other ways to boost it as well.

I'm not saying dump Cha (UMD is awesomesauce after all) but you can be a fine Beguiler without being a social butterfly.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-10, 05:30 PM
Well see, I'm not very good at being social out of character, which means Cha and Glibness are useless.

Psyren
2010-11-10, 05:39 PM
Well see, I'm not very good at being social out of character, which means Cha and Glibness are useless.

Eh? The whole point of RP is to let you be someone you're not. :smallconfused:
Simply say "I lie to the guard with a straight face" and roll.

We're getting off-topic though :smalltongue:

randomhero00
2010-11-10, 05:41 PM
Sorc is pretty good for this. Just pick your spells well.

mikeejimbo
2010-11-10, 05:44 PM
Eh? The whole point of RP is to let you be someone you're not. :smallconfused:
Simply say "I lie to the guard with a straight face" and roll.

We're getting off-topic though :smalltongue:

We don't do that in my group, we require it to be roleplayed out before you can make a roll.

But yes, off-topic!

Frosty
2010-11-10, 06:26 PM
In our group, if you rp it out, you may get a circumstancial bonus if you rp'ed it well.

Psyren
2010-11-10, 06:31 PM
In our group, if you rp it out, you may get a circumstancial bonus if you rp'ed it well.

I can understand a bonus/penalty approach, but to preclude a roll entirely?