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isotunknown
2010-11-10, 01:52 PM
There is a lot out there for druids and what feats they should take. But my druid just got a fleshraker as an AC (yup, it's a very optimized group) and I want to make it hum as best I can. I would like some help thinking about its feats and where to put skill points.

faceroll
2010-11-10, 01:58 PM
Ability focus: poison and Virulent Poison (savage species, urk) each increase the poison DC by +2. Good if you will be fighting things not immune to poison.

Multiattack & improved multiattack, improved natural attack, power attack, and shocktrooper are all good. Armor proficiency:light/medium are also good if you aren't allowed to use warbeast template.

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 02:02 PM
Ability focus: poison and Virulent Poison (savage species, urk) each increase the poison DC by +2. Good if you will be fighting things not immune to poison.
Ah I see. I had not thought about going this way at all.


Multiattack & improved multiattack, improved natural attack, power attack, and shocktrooper are all good.

I've seen posts about shocktrooper before, but whenever I read the description I don't get it. Why is this so good?

Also, doesn't the AC eventually get multiattack? Do I need to get it earlier and then see if I can retrain when it comes as part of the AC leveling.


Armor proficiency:light/medium are also good if you aren't allowed to use warbeast template.
Warbeast template. I hadn't thought about that. I'll ask if I can apply that. It's a trained template, right?

Kaww
2010-11-10, 02:05 PM
Power attack, Improved Bull rush, Awesome blow. In next round charge, pounce...

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 02:06 PM
Power attack, Improved Bull rush, Awesome blow. In next round charge, pounce...

How does Awesome Blow work?

Swooper
2010-11-10, 02:14 PM
How does Awesome Blow work?
It works pretty well (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Awesome_Blow) actually. I'm pretty sure "flying to feet" is supposed to be "flying 10 feet" there, btw.

Kaww
2010-11-10, 02:18 PM
It is a miracle worker... I apply it to just about anything large enough with three dumb feats (why does a dire bear have toughness and run?!). If your DM rules that you companion grows with HD this could be a killer...

faceroll
2010-11-10, 02:19 PM
Shocktrooper allows your AC to add 3/4 his HD in damage to all his attacks, on a charge. Combine with leap attack to become 3/2 HD damage to all his attacks on his leaping pounce. Not a small amount of damage.

Multiattack practically is the difference between proficiency and non-proficiency. Pick it up if you're not going to be starting at level 10 or whenever a druid's ac gets it. Chaos Shuffle it out when you finally get it.

Awesome Blow requires 25 str and large size. A fleshrender doesn't have either of these (until you're a high level druid, and/or with a belt of str, and animal growth).

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-10, 02:24 PM
Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty! (extremely cheesy and DM-gets-book-throwy) Requires the feat Exalted Companion to make it a Celestial creature so it's good-aligned.

Power Attack and Leap Attack, since it does leap into the air with its attacks anyway. Get it some Armbands of Might, and when it power attacks for -2 it gets +8 damage with all attacks (+2 for the -2, +2 for armbands = +4, increased by 100% for Leap Attack). Raptor School in CW could also be good if your DM will let the Jump check based damage bonus scale with higher DCs.


Awesome Blow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#awesomeBlow) requires Large size or bigger, and takes a standard action to use. You cannot use it with a full attack, or a charge, or a spring attack, etc. A Fleshraker is better off full attacking every round, whether from a leaping pounce or just standing in one spot.

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 02:25 PM
It works pretty well (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Awesome_Blow) actually. I'm pretty sure "flying to feet" is supposed to be "flying 10 feet" there, btw.

Quite nice. The only issue here is that this feat would not work unless the fleshraker were animal growthed, as fleshrakers are medium.

Still worth considering, I'd say.

Kaww
2010-11-10, 02:27 PM
Shocktrooper allows your AC to add 3/4 his HD in damage to all his attacks, on a charge. Combine with leap attack to become 3/2 HD damage to all his attacks on his leaping pounce. Not a small amount of damage.

Multiattack practically is the difference between proficiency and non-proficiency. Pick it up if you're not going to be starting at level 10 or whenever a druid's ac gets it. Chaos Shuffle it out when you finally get it.

Awesome Blow requires 25 str and large size. A fleshrender doesn't have either of these (until you're a high level druid, and/or with a belt of str, and animal growth).

I know that, but why does a druid need more dmg? It's much more fun seeing enemies fly around... Landing prone, in entangle, not having a reflex save. Fleshreaker becomes large with 9+HD and then it has enough strength to fill the requirements...

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 02:29 PM
Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty! (extremely cheesy and DM-gets-book-throwy) Requires the feat Exalted Companion to make it a Celestial creature so it's good-aligned. Can an intelligence 2 animal really have such feats. I suppose; it's a magical world. I'm betting my DM will NOT go for this, but that would be a LOT of power.


Power Attack and Leap Attack, since it does leap into the air with its attacks anyway. Get it some Armbands of Might, and when it power attacks for -2 it gets +8 damage with all attacks (+2 for the -2, +2 for armbands = +4, increased by 100% for Leap Attack). Raptor School in CW could also be good if your DM will let the Jump check based damage bonus scale with higher DCs. Can you flesh this out for me? I'm not sure what you mean by this last sentence.



Awesome Blow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#awesomeBlow) requires Large size or bigger, and takes a standard action to use. You cannot use it with a full attack, or a charge, or a spring attack, etc. A Fleshraker is better off full attacking every round, whether from a leaping pounce or just standing in one spot.

Agreed.

faceroll
2010-11-10, 02:31 PM
Fleshreaker becomes large with 9+HD and then it has enough strength to fill the requirements...

Bonus HD aren't the same as advancing a monster's hit dice.

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 02:31 PM
I know that, but why does a druid need more dmg? It's much more fun seeing enemies fly around... Landing prone, in entangle, not having a reflex save. Fleshreaker becomes large with 9+HD and then it has enough strength to fill the requirements...

:smallbiggrin:

Kaww
2010-11-10, 02:34 PM
Bonus HD aren't the same as advancing a monster's hit dice.

Read my second post in the thread for further clarification...

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-10, 02:47 PM
Can an intelligence 2 animal really have such feats. I suppose; it's a magical world. I'm betting my DM will NOT go for this, but that would be a LOT of power.

Can you flesh this out for me? I'm not sure what you mean by this last sentence.

That's why you take Exalted Companion, so it becomes a Celestial creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/celestialCreature.htm). Its Int score is 3, it's good-aligned, and it can take exalted feats like VoP. The biggest obstacle is the fact that a Fleshraker has a poisonous attack, and BoED specifically says that using poison is an evil act, despite the core rules allowing for a good-aligned Druid of a good-aligned deity being able to cast the spell Poison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/poison.htm) with no alignment implications.

Raptor School is a tactical feat in CW, one of its uses is to grant bonus damage by making a jump check when you leap upon an opponent from at least 10 ft. up, which can be accomplished with at least a 10 ft. vertical jump as part of its Leaping Pounce. It says you can attempt a DC 15 Jump check for +2 damage, or a DC 25 Jump check for +4 damage, but if you fail you automatically miss the attack. If your DM will allow you to attempt a DC 35 check for +6 damage, or a DC 45 check for +8 damage, etc. then it would be worth getting, since a Fleshraker could easily make such high checks as long as it keeps putting ranks in it. It only requires a +6 BAB, Wis 13, and Jump 5 ranks, no other feats, so if you have an open feat later on it would be worth getting.


Be sure to get a Magebred version of whatever animal companion you get, it's a template in the Eberron Campaign Setting. It's basically just free bonuses for your animal companion, since there's no drawback to using it. You can also spend a few weeks training it and make a Handle Animal check to give it the Warbeast template in MM2, which grants it additional bonuses for no drawback.

icefractal
2010-11-10, 02:51 PM
Raptor School is worth it regardless. By early mid levels, you can't fail that jump check, and +4 damage per attack is pretty nice when you have 4 / 5 attacks.

Kaww
2010-11-10, 02:55 PM
-Munchkinism-


As if being a druid isn't bad enough. When I want to play the most powerful class in core I use the feats to get more flavor, and I have a lovely little puppy dog that I ride when in form of a lightning shootin' rabbit.

Adumbration
2010-11-10, 02:59 PM
Cast Venomfire. Kill everything.

Urpriest
2010-11-10, 04:05 PM
Be sure to get a Magebred version of whatever animal companion you get, it's a template in the Eberron Campaign Setting. It's basically just free bonuses for your animal companion, since there's no drawback to using it. You can also spend a few weeks training it and make a Handle Animal check to give it the Warbeast template in MM2, which grants it additional bonuses for no drawback.

While Warbeast is potentially legitimate, I've never seen rules for Magebred animal companions. Could you point out where I might find them? Nothing in their monster entry says they are legitimate choices as companions.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-10, 04:21 PM
While Warbeast is potentially legitimate, I've never seen rules for Magebred animal companions. Could you point out where I might find them? Nothing in their monster entry says they are legitimate choices as companions.

In Five Nations, statistics are given for a Magebred Brown Bear and a Magebred Tiger. It is stated at the end of each creature entry that they are available as animal companions to a Druid of 7th level or a Ranger of 14th level, the same level that the base creatures are available as animal companions. Therefore, Magebred versions of animals are available as animal companions at the same adjustment as the untemplated base creature.



(calling my advice "-Munchkinism-")


It is a miracle worker... I apply it to just about anything large enough with three dumb feats (why does a dire bear have toughness and run?!). If your DM rules that you companion grows with HD this could be a killer...

My advice works within the rules. You suggested that someone knowingly break the rules just because their DM doesn't know any better. Who's the what now?

Tael
2010-11-10, 04:56 PM
As if being a druid isn't bad enough. When I want to play the most powerful class in core I use the feats to get more flavor, and I have a lovely little puppy dog that I ride when in form of a lightning shootin' rabbit.

Uh, what?
1. Rules explicitly say don't be elitist with regards to roleplaying/powergaming or whatever.
2. The OP asked for optimization advice. He gave it to him. The only thing you've contributed are illegal builds.
3. The OP has already said that this is a high optimization group.
4. Unless all your druids are gnome tricksters, what you describe isn't flavor, it's just silly and childish.

Optimator
2010-11-10, 04:57 PM
Powerful Charge, Shock Trooper

Coidzor
2010-11-10, 06:15 PM
^: I would recommend against powerful charge due to it only applying to a single attack on a charge when fleshrakers are the go-to for medium pouncers.

Just got a fleshraker... so you're a 4th level druid? or switched to it at a later level?

If 4th level, you've got 2 feats if you're allowed to pick 'em, then another feat in 2 levels...

I'd say for now, multiattack is a good choice, along with the ability focus on poison. Or power attack + improved bullrush so that you can get shock trooper in two levels and then Leap attack to go with it in 4 levels.

Ultimately get 6 feats at 20th level with one if it's kept, in which case I'd recommend going into a feat chain along with multi-attack.

When/are you planning on trading up?

Also, if you can't change the existing feats, putting points into survival nets you a tracker for the party if that's something worth your party's while.

AslanCross
2010-11-10, 06:53 PM
Ah I see. I had not thought about going this way at all.
I've seen posts about shocktrooper before, but whenever I read the description I don't get it. Why is this so good?


Because it penalizes your AC instead of your attack bonus, so you get a powerful hit without jeopardizing your chance to hit. Losing AC isn't so bad when your opponent is dead.

Akal Saris
2010-11-10, 07:28 PM
Regarding magebred and warbeast templates:

First, the PHB states that an animal companion is completely typical for its type, so you shouldn't be allowed to have a templated AC without training the animal in-game. Still, specific trumps general.

Magebred: From the EBCS, pg. 37:
A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred
animal as a companion. Most druids and rangers are
ambivalent toward such creatures, while some consider
magebred animals to be corruptions of nature.

So you could get a magebred tiger or bear if you're from Breland as those two specifically trump the general rule, but otherwise you can't get a magebred animal.

Warbeast: My take on this is that it domesticates the animal, so you probably can't start with the template. My own swift hunter has a warbeast giant crocodile, trained in-game during 3 months of travel :P Of course, I'm playing a ranger/scout in a 14th level game with a wizard, a cleric, and a druid, so a warbeast AC isn't going to break anything :smalltongue:

My own recommendation for two feats would be ability focus (poison) and multiattack, by the way. Both are solid feats that are unlikely to be shot down by most DMs.

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 07:38 PM
Just got a fleshraker... so you're a 4th level druid? or switched to it at a later level?
I just got it and I'm 4th level. I'm going to take the natural bond feat to improve my druid level for the fleshraker and I intend to take this fleshraker all the way.


If 4th level, you've got 2 feats if you're allowed to pick 'em, then another feat in 2 levels... How do I get to take 2 feats? The fleshraker comes with feats, but I don't think I get to take two, do I?


Ultimately get 6 feats at 20th level with one if it's kept, in which case I'd recommend going into a feat chain along with multi-attack. I'm not seeing how I get six feats. I can see four with Natural Bond.


When/are you planning on trading up? I'm not going to trade up.


Also, if you can't change the existing feats, putting points into survival nets you a tracker for the party if that's something worth your party's while.
Cool.

Thanks.

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 07:40 PM
Because it penalizes your AC instead of your attack bonus, so you get a powerful hit without jeopardizing your chance to hit. Losing AC isn't so bad when your opponent is dead.

Hard to argue with that logic. Am I interested in all that pushing stuff with Shock Trooper?

isotunknown
2010-11-10, 07:43 PM
Regarding magebred and warbeast templates:

First, the PHB states that an animal companion is completely typical for its type, so you shouldn't be allowed to have a templated AC without training the animal in-game. Still, specific trumps general.

Magebred: From the EBCS, pg. 37:
A druid or ranger may never acquire a magebred
animal as a companion. Most druids and rangers are
ambivalent toward such creatures, while some consider
magebred animals to be corruptions of nature.

So you could get a magebred tiger or bear if you're from Breland as those two specifically trump the general rule, but otherwise you can't get a magebred animal.

Warbeast: My take on this is that it domesticates the animal, so you probably can't start with the template. My own swift hunter has a warbeast giant crocodile, trained in-game during 3 months of travel :P Of course, I'm playing a ranger/scout in a 14th level game with a wizard, a cleric, and a druid, so a warbeast AC isn't going to break anything :smalltongue:

My own recommendation for two feats would be ability focus (poison) and multiattack, by the way. Both are solid feats that are unlikely to be shot down by most DMs.

Thanks for all this. I'm curious, however what you think about the AC getting Multiattack later on in the game automatically. Retraining seems like the only option, if it is an option.

Urpriest
2010-11-10, 08:02 PM
I just got it and I'm 4th level. I'm going to take the natural bond feat to improve my druid level for the fleshraker and I intend to take this fleshraker all the way.

How do I get to take 2 feats? The fleshraker comes with feats, but I don't think I get to take two, do I?

I'm not seeing how I get six feats. I can see four with Natural Bond.

I'm not going to trade up.


Cool.

Thanks.

You may get to pick the feats the fleshraker comes with rather than just using the ones in its statblock.

As for Natural Bond, make sure your DM's okay with that. Natural Bond offsetting the penalty for a higher level animal companion is somewhat dubious.

Coidzor
2010-11-10, 08:05 PM
Multiquote or the edit button are good for preventing double or triple posting, for future reference.


How do I get to take 2 feats? The fleshraker comes with feats, but I don't think I get to take two, do I?

That's what I meant, the Fleshraker has 2 feats by virtue of its 4 HD before bonuses from being an animal companion. If you get to pick the feats for it, then you have two feats to work with it, otherwise you have to wait until your effective druid level is 3 in order to select a single feat.

As it stands, if you can't select all of its feats for it, you can only give it a single feat at the moment. And so putting its skill points in survival to take advantage of its track feat would be good, as would spot and listen which are always good.


I'm not seeing how I get six feats. I can see four with Natural Bond.

Yeah, I messed up my math there in regards to effective druid level because I forgot about the -3 for taking a fleshraker. But you've got natural bond... so... If Natural bond works to counteract the -3 to effective druid level from taking a fleshraker, then you have effective druid level 20, and so the fleshraker gets 12 bonus HD. If natural bond doesn't counteract the -3 to effective druid level from taking a fleshraker, your effective druid level is 17 for Animal Companion purposes, so it gets 10 bonus HD.

Fleshrakers have 4 HD as a baseline, so that's either 14 or 16 HD it has after animal companion bonuses. 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, and 15th HD all give feats, so that'd be 6 feats if natural bond works, 5 feats if it doesn't. But only at levels 18-20, which is 14 levels away. If warbeast template is allowed, then either way the fleshraker would have 15+ HD and thus 6 feats ([Level+HD]/3 + 1)

If you're not going to go high level, stay away from long feat chains as they won't pay off as much as multiple feats taken individually.

As for the Multiattack question... That's 5 levels away if your GM allows natural bond to offset your druid level penalty for taking an alternate companion, 8 levels away otherwise, if you don't make it that high, it's definitely worth it. You'd have to work it out with your GM whether he'd let you retrain the feat or have the bonus from being an animal companion turn into Improved Multiattack.

AslanCross
2010-11-11, 12:07 AM
Hard to argue with that logic. Am I interested in all that pushing stuff with Shock Trooper?

While it opens up more interesting tactics (It is a tactical feat), the pushing stuff is just gravy; the damage output that Shock Trooper allows is worth the feat. Since you do need Improved Bull Rush to qualify for Shock Trooper, it is still worthwhile. Fleshrakers have good strength besides.

Kaww
2010-11-11, 12:37 AM
My advice works within the rules. You suggested that someone knowingly break the rules just because their DM doesn't know any better. Who's the what now?


It is a miracle worker... I apply it to just about anything large enough with three dumb feats (why does a dire bear have toughness and run?!). If your DM rules that you companion grows with HD this could be a killer...

If any of my players tried to convince me that his fleshreaker started donating money to charity, feeding the pour in the streets, started proposing to the party that they should take prisoners and treat them with care I'd just let a rock fall on the thing. I think no sane DM would allow it unless it's a comedy relief campaign, then I'd make the druid player RP his companion.



4. Unless all your druids are gnome tricksters, what you describe isn't flavor, it's just silly and childish.

Technically he was an insane xvart with a random list of wildshape forms (when I say random I say really random). DM's kind of fun nerf for druids in a low op party. You play with the hand you are dealt. Your guess was close enough...

Also I don't like abandoning my dog...

Akal Saris
2010-11-11, 12:42 AM
RAW you don't get Multiattack twice, but I think most DMs would let you get Improved Multiattack if you already had it, and nice ones would let you choose a new feat instead. So ask your DM I guess.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-11-11, 12:50 AM
Hard to argue with that logic. Am I interested in all that pushing stuff with Shock Trooper?

Well, it lets you really get a lot out of the Pounce which fleshrakers get.

Y'see, shock trooper only lets the AC tradeoff occur on a charge, which a pounce counts as (actually pounce simply lets you make a full attack on a charge, so technically you are charging already).

So Power Attack lets you trade out your BAB for damage. Leap Attack lets you double this. Shock Trooper lets you trade out AC instead of attack bonus for the damage increase. Twice his BAB as free damage on every attack he makes in a pounce. Then find a way to get Divine Power cast on him. Have a nice day.

Then by pushing the opponent 10' back, you are once again able to Charge him, which you can't do if you are adjacent to your opponent. So again, this lets you basically charge your opponent every turn, in addition to situationally useful battlefield control option.

isotunknown
2010-11-11, 09:13 AM
This is all very helpful.

So, assuming that my 16HD Fleshraker (when I'm 18th level and have Natural Bond) has the following feats:

-Improved Natural Attack (claws),
-Multiattack (by retraining Track, assuming DM approval),
-Improved Multiattack (Animal Companion advancement instead of Multiattack or just retraining Multiattack, assuming DM approval)
-Power Attack,
-Improved Bull Rush,
-Leap Attack, and
-Shock Trooper

. . . how does the attack break down?

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-11-11, 05:45 PM
This is all very helpful.

So, assuming that my 16HD Fleshraker (when I'm 18th level and have Natural Bond) has the following feats:

-Improved Natural Attack (claws),
-Multiattack (by retraining Track, assuming DM approval),
-Improved Multiattack (Animal Companion advancement instead of Multiattack or just retraining Multiattack, assuming DM approval)
-Power Attack,
-Improved Bull Rush,
-Leap Attack, and
-Shock Trooper

. . . how does the attack break down?

Animal HD have a 3/4 BAB. Full Str mod for primary attacks, and 1/2 Str mod for secondary attacks.

So he'd have his full allotment of attacks for his stat block entry, although most of them would be at a better attack and damage.

I'd also suggest a Collar of Giant Strength +6, if you can afford one for your pet.

If he charges, he gets twice his BAB to damage. So that would be twice of 3/4 his HD, which makes it at 1.5x HD, added to every hit. It drops his AC by one half this number until his next attack. For this reason, I'd suggest finding some way to cast Mirror Image and sharing it with him. Failing that, Blur or Displacement both help. I wonder, can it wear a Cloak of Displacement, Lesser? That would also protect him from sneak attacks too, due to the concealment modifier. Failing that, finding a way to cast either Blur or Displacement would be beneficial to his survival.

Rasman
2010-11-11, 06:15 PM
I REALLY like Faceroll's suggestions, especially the Warbeast Template since it's a free template that only requires 2 months of training, it's a must for any long term animal companion.


Power attack, Improved Bull rush, Awesome blow. In next round charge, pounce...

they don't get big enough to use Awesome Blow as an AniCom, otherwise, fairly solid.




While Warbeast is potentially legitimate, I've never seen rules for Magebred animal companions. Could you point out where I might find them? Nothing in their monster entry says they are legitimate choices as companions.

a Magebred creature is exactly what it sounds like, it's just a creature that has be "bred" by "mage"s that gives it magical enhancements. Typically they would be bought and either hatched or reared, but you could probably get a fully grown magebred animal as well, fairly easily. It's just not a template you can apply later because it has to do with how they're born and raised.

But there's nothing that says you CAN'T have it that I have found.

Coidzor
2010-11-11, 06:47 PM
I'd also suggest a Collar of Giant Strength +6, if you can afford one for your pet.

If he charges, he gets twice his BAB to damage. So that would be twice of 3/4 his HD, which makes it at 1.5x HD, added to every hit. It drops his AC by one half this number until his next attack. For this reason, I'd suggest finding some way to cast Mirror Image and sharing it with him. Failing that, Blur or Displacement both help. I wonder, can it wear a Cloak of Displacement, Lesser? That would also protect him from sneak attacks too, due to the concealment modifier. Failing that, finding a way to cast either Blur or Displacement would be beneficial to his survival.

Cloaks are shoulder slot, neck's fairly similar, I'd try for Magic Item Compendium stacking rules of a collar of giant strength +6 and lesser displacement, maybe stacked with a necklace of natural attacks or an amulet of mighty fists. Trying to remember body slots for animals... I think they have fore-limbs though, I think that's what they claw with and the rakes are from the hind-legs, so some variety of armslot item could be used for a strength/dex item instead of having it be on the collar where the displacement and magic weapon enhancement to its natural attacks could go.

I can't recall what sort of chunk of this would be of the WBL by that point, but if you want it for the long haul it seems mostly reasonable, depending upon what your druid does in combat.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-11-11, 10:01 PM
Cloaks are shoulder slot, neck's fairly similar, I'd try for Magic Item Compendium stacking rules of a collar of giant strength +6 and lesser displacement, maybe stacked with a necklace of natural attacks or an amulet of mighty fists. Trying to remember body slots for animals... I think they have fore-limbs though, I think that's what they claw with and the rakes are from the hind-legs, so some variety of armslot item could be used for a strength/dex item instead of having it be on the collar where the displacement and magic weapon enhancement to its natural attacks could go.

I can't recall what sort of chunk of this would be of the WBL by that point, but if you want it for the long haul it seems mostly reasonable, depending upon what your druid does in combat.

Necklace of Natural Attacks would be mostly obviated by Greater Magic Fang, unless you were allowed to stack enhancement equivalents on it. Valorous to increase charging damage would be the obvious equivalent, with Collision to give a flat +5 to damage with all attacks being a secondary option.

isotunknown
2010-11-28, 02:11 PM
This is all very helpful.

So, assuming that my 16HD Fleshraker (when I'm 18th level and have Natural Bond) has the following feats:

-Improved Natural Attack (claws),
-Multiattack (by retraining Track, assuming DM approval),
-Improved Multiattack (Animal Companion advancement instead of Multiattack or just retraining Multiattack, assuming DM approval)
-Power Attack,
-Improved Bull Rush,
-Leap Attack, and
-Shock Trooper

. . . how does the attack break down?

I was still hoping that someone could help me break this down.

Coidzor
2010-11-28, 05:05 PM
16 HD ...that's BAB of +12/+7/+2. If you can get it iteratives.

+5 bonus to its strength, so whatever that ends up as.

+3 stat-ups from HD (can't recall the base stats offhand), as I believe the +1 statup for the base 4 HD that he gets from just being a fleshraker is already figured into his stats.

So a +8 strength before using items or anything on the guy, without buffing con or dex, which since it has a 19 dex and 15 con naturally, wouldn't be too bad, going up a point of bonus on con and dex and having a +6 to strength...

Going strength, that's +8 strength on 17 strength base. So 25 strength, +7 strength bonus.

So that's a +19 on the main attack, and +17 on the secondary weapons with only multi-attack. With improved multi-attack that's +19 all around.

If you put a point into constitution instead of strength, it's the same strength bonus and to-hit, but the poison's save DC goes up by 1.

With Power attack + shock trooper it can power attack for 12, lowering its Armor class by 12 (so 20 + 10 natural armor from druid -12) So an AC of 18. Leap Attack doubles the damage. So, that's an extra 24 points of damage for leap attacking power attack for full.

So that'd be 2 claws +19 (1d6+7strength+24powerattack+poison), 1 bite +19 (1d6+3strength+24powerattack), 1 tail +19 (1d6+3strength+24powerattack+poison).

The rakes... I don't know. Full strength on the base creature is 3. half strength is 1, but the rake has 1d6+2 for its damage on the statblock...

Gavinfoxx
2010-11-28, 05:41 PM
16 HD ...that's BAB of +12/+7/+2

+5 bonus to its strength, so whatever that ends up as.

Well, lets see... you get to improve stats from every 4 hd as well as the bonus stats from the druid animal companion thing, right? And it doesn't actually get iteratives, right?

isotunknown
2010-12-27, 10:23 PM
I really do appreciate all the help on this. Thanks so much. In the end, there is a lot to keep track of when playing a druid.