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View Full Version : 2e Duel Class rules with proficiencies



Gospel
2010-11-10, 04:01 PM
I need help figuring out what to do with duel classing and proficiencies.

Since Proficiencies are an optional rule they were not addressed very clearly in the Duel Class option.


Has anyone ever found an official ruling on what to do with proviciences when you change class? Do you get a whole new collection of the? Are you restricted from retaking old ones?


Little pressed for time and I don't want to make this a TLDR thing so i'm interested to see what people have done for themselves.

hamlet
2010-11-10, 05:26 PM
It's not explicitly covered, I don't think.

The way I've handled it was to assume that the dual classing character does not gain the initial "allotment" of proficiencies for his new class, but gains only 1 and then resets his count to the new class.

You retain all the old ones and I see no problem with using them within certain bounds. You're supposed to be focusing on the new class, so using proficiencies to emulate being your old class is probably gonna result in a hit to XP (i.e., a wizard wading into melee with Blind Fighting or something like that).

Matthew
2010-11-10, 05:53 PM
Since the character cannot use any abilities associated with his former class until he exceeds the level previously attained, he would presumably get new proficiencies as if he had begun as the new class. This would not, in my estimation, apply to non-weapon proficiencies gained from intelligence.

hamlet
2010-11-11, 07:49 AM
Since the character cannot use any abilities associated with his former class until he exceeds the level previously attained, he would presumably get new proficiencies as if he had begun as the new class. This would not, in my estimation, apply to non-weapon proficiencies gained from intelligence.

Yeah, that's my problem, though. How do you differentiate between abilities gained from high INT from those gained from standard class allotment?

My answer is, I don't. I draw the line at action. If you are acting like your new class, then you're fine. If you're acting like your old class, then you take the hit.

So a newly minted wizard can't use non-weapon proficiencies from his days as a fighter that a wizard would have no earthly business knowing, like armor and weapon smithing, blind fighting, etc. Stuff like languages, knowledges, or some other skills would stay, though.

It's a judgement call.

amaranth69
2010-11-11, 02:33 PM
i always give them the initial amount of slots for tbheir new class with no int bonus. tthen i only give xp penalty if the prof is in the old class list, not for any from the general list.

Gospel
2010-11-11, 05:48 PM
Thank you for the responses. Many different viewpoints here.


What if the classes have redundant abilities, how have you handled that.

IE a Bard changing to a Wizard(spells), or a Bard changing to a rogue(detect noice read language etc).

Also the proficiencies for Bard and rogue class trees are the same, and they have similar roles in the party.

amaranth69
2010-11-11, 09:39 PM
If the character casts spells from the original class, then I would deduct the xp. Bard and thief are not valid dual class options as a character can only have one class from each of the four major groups (fighter, priest, rogue, and wizard) a rogue/ranger character might be valid, and I would make the character go by the new class' score in the skill. Then, after attaining a higher level i would probably allow half of the previous class' score to be added to the new score to allow some benefit.

Gospel
2010-11-12, 05:11 PM
@amaranth69: I didn't understand that to be a guideline. Even just rereading the text I don't see where it restricts you to one from each of the four major groups. Although if thats the case it does solve the problem I asked about.

Is this how everyone else views reads the rule also?

Matthew
2010-11-12, 07:24 PM
@amaranth69: I didn't understand that to be a guideline. Even just rereading the text I don't see where it restricts you to one from each of the four major groups. Although if that's the case it does solve the problem I asked about.

Is this how everyone else views reads the rule also?

There are no restrictions in the rules as to which classes a character can move between as far as I can see, but it would be reasonably sensible based on the multi-class combinations to assume that as the rule was conceived it did not envision moving within groups (though, in fact, that might make more sense in many contexts, such as moving from Fighter to Paladin). Later on multi-class combinations such as bard/thief were explicitly permitted (Complete Bard's Handbook), but that is the nature of second edition, a lot comes down to what individual game masters will allow. Bear in mind that all classes beyond the default four (fighter, magician, cleric, thief) are optional, so corner cases involving those classes are generally left to the discretion of the game master.