Deck of Many things. Help me make something useful out of it

[NekoJoker]

My dear playgrounders, please don't throw anything at me...

Well, I have always liked THE IDEA of the Deck of Many things, i have put it to action with...well, disastrous results (for my players, hilarious to me...).

The thing is... I still love this thing and I sense great potential on it if used correctly; the question is HOW?

i have been thinking about making the deck the center of a campaign, the power of some abilities can grant som awesome plot hooks if timed correctly. In my imagination I can see an episodic campaign that revolves around the events brought upon the players by a powerful outsider that uses the decks effects on the players (of course i know the player must draw a card to make it effective, but there may be some way to go around it. Every adventure will be named after that particular card, and all the action with derive from that.

Now that I think of it the idea is very similar to the opening sequences for each episode in the Escaflowne anime series....

but I digress, I want you playgrounders, and your collective minds to help me find a fun and constructive way to use this lovable monstruosity that is the Deck of Many things.

All Ideas are welcome except "just don't use it".

[Urpriest]

I think a villain with the Deck could be interesting. A Jester focused on randomness, possibly with something (Fatespinner? Luck Rerolls?) to let him avoid obviously horrible stuff like Imprisonment. The rest should be fair game though: have the guy suffer positive effects and negative effects. Have it be a little like Deathnote, with the players sparring against this odd, supernatural foe who mysteriously has setbacks at crucial moments, possibly finding an imprint of a card on the scene when they try to track him down.

[Susano-wo]

well, especially used as a central plot hook, it could be that you only get one. Each person may draw fro mthe deck once in his or her lifetime. So it becomes an epic gamble.

Or each card can only be drawn once, and it takes a milennium (or somthing) for them to appear again. So you can draw all you want, but its going to thin down your odds of getting a good card. (oh, and the deck always appears full until the last card is drawn...no card counting in this casino:smallyuk:)

Or perhaps the deck is a powerful wish granting artifact, though with a chance to end in calamity, but you need to assemble all the cards, scattered amonst ancient ruins..

[The Deej]

What if the deck was originally designed by a (perhaps addled) Archmage for a game of chance? And completely new abilities of the deck are activated when said game is played?

[gbprime]

Well... let's start with a loophole. There's nothing in the 3.5 RAW that states that a Deck of Many things cannot be influenced by divination magic, or by a Wish. Now while I would make houserule to keep this under control, letting a Wish predict or request the next card drawn by a given individual brings to mind a plotline.

A Noble Djinn (or Efreeti), playing kingmaker. He's got an agenda and a bone to pick with someone, and more importantly has a Deck of Many Things. Let's say he picks someone, gives them 3 wishes and advises them to use those wishes to pick specific cards from their 3 draws from the deck. Even if you can choose each card only once, he could manufacture heroes (or villains) by ensuring that each of them gains 50,000 XP instantly, then training them (or having them trained).

[Urpriest]

Another potential anime parallel comes to mind: Eden of the East. The above Djinn/Efreet could be a mysterious benefactor running some massive game to see who can save Japan/Insert Country Here.

[Psyren]

Another potential anime parallel comes to mind: Eden of the East. The above Djinn/Efreet could be a mysterious benefactor running some massive game to see who can save Japan/Insert Country Here.

Sounds a lot like Psyren. (My namesake, rather than me)

[Urpriest]

Sounds a lot like Psyren. (My namesake, rather than me)

After reading the wiki entry: kind of. One difference is that Psyren involves a set goal: the characters have on some level a clear idea of what they're supposed to prevent. "Save Japan" in Eden of the East is really really ambiguous, it gets interpreted as anything from creating a self-sustaining hospital system to treat the poor to murdering Japanese rapists and importing sexy western men to improve Japan's selection of males.

Edit: This is relevant because this last structure could potentially make for a more interesting campaign, with those chosen by the Djinn as both heroes and villains.

[Stephen_E]

1 suggestion.
If the players r getting to draw from the deck install a 3 card maximum.

Most of the best plot hooks are bad results.
So you need to work out what the recovery point is for each of them.

Balance - Alignment shift. Has to be lived upto.

Donjon - How is the party going to find the captive. What is the captive going to be doing. You will need to run both plotlines relaitively simultaneously. Maybe have the captive's spirit be temprily stripped from their body and join the party as a ghost until they recover the imprisoned body.

Flames - The person, and by the default the party has gained a personal BBEG opponent, or maybe not so evil ?

Knight - Where did the 4th level fighter come from. How did he get linked with the Deck. A family curse? persoanl, romance. What can the party do to free him from the curse.

Rogue - Full of wonderful plothook opportunities. Enough said.

Ruin - How is the wealth and non-magical items lost? Siezure by the govt? A dead elder brother turns up alive and is entitled to it all? How the items are stilen and there recovery, or dealing with the agent of there taking is plenty of plotline.

Talons - See Ruin.

Throne - You just inherited a castkle. This has so many great plothooks. Where is the castle. Who had it before. Why did you just inherit it. What probnlems is the castle having. :-)

The Void - The soul is stripped out and imprisoned somewhere. Obviosly the party must recover the sould, but what about the player of the PC affected? There is a empty living bidy there. Something steps up and sets up residence. Workout with the player whether it's a temporary residence andhow helpful it will be. Basically the player gains a new PC in the old PCs body. Work with them to make something both player and GM are happy with.

Important notes. Wherever the Deck says "can't be reverse/regained ect" replace with "difficult, unlikely ect".
Remember you are doing plot hooks, not character ending events. Anything taken should be regainable or replaceable in someway, after sufficient hoops have been climbed through.

Stephen E

[blackjack217]

Creative use of augery observe: http://agc.deskslave.org/excerpt_viewer.html?goNumber=802

[Psyren]

Creative use of augery observe: http://agc.deskslave.org/excerpt_viewer.html?goNumber=802

That DM lacked creativity :smalltongue: gaining a level isn't necessary "weal" - you end up a target for higher-level monsters.

[Coidzor]

...I'm sorry, but all I can think of now is Shin Megami Tensei: Persona d20. x.x More along the lines of 4, granted...

[blackjack217]

That DM lacked creativity :smalltongue: gaining a level isn't necessary "weal" - you end up a target for higher-level monsters.

Then you are penalizing creativity, which is bad DMing

[Psyren]

Then you are penalizing creativity, which is bad DMing

Augury + Deck of Many Things is not creativity, I assure you. The combo has come up in at least a dozen threads.

[blackjack217]

Augury + Deck of Many Things is not creativity, I assure you. The combo has come up in at least a dozen threads.

If you come up with it you are creative, if you get the idea from someone else not so much. Besides using divination the players will actually use the Deck of Many Things rather than be afraid to. Are there any variants to the deck incidentally?

[Telonius]

I believe there was a variant of it put out by WotC awhile back. A previous DM of mine returned from a convention with a bunch of actual cards. The effects were more along the lines of Traits. It was wimpy enough that none of us thought it was very interesting (and I think that was the general consensus, so I haven't seen or heard of it again).

[amaranth69]

I once DMed a module in AD&D called House of Cards. The premise was that an arcanadaemon created a dungeon in which the placards from a Deck of Many Things were placed over the operational mechanisms of the doors. Due to the nature of the Deck, he was only able to use all of the cards, both beneficial and baneful. The doors were magical constructions that could not be bypassed in any way, thus the characters had to remove the cards to open the doors. My players had a blast in this adventure. I don't know how that would play out in other editions, since AD&D modules had scenarios such as this that one could not explain step by step, but simply because the DM says that is how it works. Hopefully this might give you an idea because that module was great fun, both for me as DM and for the players.

[gbprime]

Augury + Deck of Many Things is not creativity, I assure you. The combo has come up in at least a dozen threads.

And I still maintain that the easiest way to deal with this is to assume that the cards themselves are not set until the moment you actually draw them. Until that very moment, anything could happen, and a divination spell simply doesn't have anything to detect.

Hence it takes a very strong spell to control what the draw will be, rather than predict it. And that makes scamming a Deck a very cost inefficient thing to do. (Barring wishes as supernatural abilities.)

[blackjack217]

And I still maintain that the easiest way to deal with this is to assume that the cards themselves are not set until the moment you actually draw them. Until that very moment, anything could happen, and a divination spell simply doesn't have anything to detect.

Hence it takes a very strong spell to control what the draw will be, rather than predict it. And that makes scamming a Deck a very cost inefficient thing to do. (Barring wishes as supernatural abilities.)

Or you could just let them scam the deck because if you didn't want them to get the good stuff you should not have given them the option to draw in the first place. This thread makes me want to create home-brewed decks though. Like the deck of good fortune and the deck of many traps.

[gbprime]

Or you could just let them scam the deck because if you didn't want them to get the good stuff you should not have given them the option to draw in the first place.

Well the last time it came up, I was one of two DM's in a shared campaign. We traded off running plots and adventures, hooking off each other and using our PC as an NPC while we were reffing. It was the other DM that handed the thing out, right before he handed the DM chair over to me again. :smallsigh:

[Hida Reju]

So does the Deck still qualify as an Artifact if so I guess WOTC forgot to leave in the clause that Artifacts are not subject to spells effects. Back in 1st/2nd ED Artifacts had "ONE" way to be destroyed and could not be even affected by other spells.

I might in a superhero power lvl D&D game that went epic allow a chance to affect a Deck by an epic lvl spell but that would be the extent of it. Anything else is begging for problems.

Oh and one house rule that I played in a game that had a deck was that if you had earned a Wish from the deck you could use that wish to counter one of the bad draws but you had to redraw again.

[grimbold]

well, especially used as a central plot hook, it could be that you only get one. Each person may draw fro mthe deck once in his or her lifetime. So it becomes an epic gamble.

Or each card can only be drawn once, and it takes a milennium (or somthing) for them to appear again. So you can draw all you want, but its going to thin down your odds of getting a good card. (oh, and the deck always appears full until the last card is drawn...no card counting in this casino:smallyuk:)

Or perhaps the deck is a powerful wish granting artifact, though with a chance to end in calamity, but you need to assemble all the cards, scattered amonst ancient ruins..

imo the first 2 rock

[blackjack217]

Well the last time it came up, I was one of two DM's in a shared campaign. We traded off running plots and adventures, hooking off each other and using our PC as an NPC while we were reffing. It was the other DM that handed the thing out, right before he handed the DM chair over to me again. :smallsigh:

In that case I have no problem with limiting divination, though the negative effects can be just as derailing as the positive. My point of don't hand it out if you aren't willing to live with the consequences still stands, however.

[Galdor Miriel]

You are guys are forgetting what inevitably happens with the deck of many things........

The PCs keep drawing cards, they go crazy, they love the risk, they don't stop. Any campaign I brought it into in older editions it caused the end of the campaign because it is so silly, random and quick.

If you want to make it work you should fix it and never tell the players you have fixed it. Limit the number of draws so you always know what is going to happen, and then you can build a nice plot that ties all the draws together following some of the suggestions you have had.

Then I think it would be a wonderful way to drive a campaign. Though it might require a lot of seat of pants dming, which is fun.

GM

[kestrel404]

I think that if you're going to introduce something like the DoMT at an early level to the characters, you're going to need to make some BIG changes to it. As it exists now, it's a REALLY Gygaxian object, with 1/4 or so of the cards effectively killing character who draws them, and another 1/4 at least making those characters nearly unplayable with the rest of the party - or at least unbalancing them for no good reason.

Instead, I think that you should make up an entirely new item - one that can work well within the context of a party that can use this as a magic item more than once per game.

Here's an example: The Deck of Many Forms

Any one person may draw from the Deck of Many Forms no more than once per day, but there is no limit to the number of different people who can draw. Once a card is drawn, it cannot be drawn from the deck again for the rest of the day - with the exception of the 'Joker' card, which is immediately replaced.

Each card has the picture of a creature on it. The individual that draws any given card is immediately subjected to a 'polymorph any object' effect, transforming them into that creature. The maximum duration of the effect is 24 hours, rather than permanent.

While every creature in the monster manual is represented within the deck, its innate magic prevents a creature from drawing the card of any creature that has more hit dice than themselves - so a level 3 character cannot draw any creature that has more than 3 hit dice.

The following cards, called 'major arcana' are also present in the deck:
The Knight - This card represents the personal enhancement of the individual who drew it. Instead of taking on a new form, they are instead affected as though by the Divine Might spell for the next 24 hours.
The Mage - This card represents gaining new arcane potential. For the next 24 hours, they gain an Eldritch blast as though they were a Warlock of their character level, plus one blast shape or eldritch essence of their choice per four hit dice. If they are already a Warlock, they gain the new eldritch blast or +2d6 damage to their existing ability, whichever is better.
The Rogue - This card represents an increase in personal skill. The character may add their hit dice to any skill roll they make for the next 24 hours.
The Jester - This card represents the loss of personal abilities. Any character who draws the Jester card must make a DC 24 fort save of be turned to stone, as though by the Flesh to Stone spell, for 24 hours.


Hope that helps.

[BeholderSlayer]

Put it in a Heward's Handy Haversack and pull out the exact card you want EVERY SINGLE TIME. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Concerning Augury - I'm not against it; after all, drawing Void would suck and just end the campaign or force you to reroll a new character, so it's just a pointless "gotcha!" card. But that doesn't mean I'd make all the good cards easy to find either. Whether a card is weal or woe depends on perspective, and most deities have a pretty large perspective.

Here is how I'd play out the Augury of each card.

Balance: Neither, changing alignment is neither explicitly bad or good.
Comet: Weal and Woe (you have to fight on your own, but gain an instant level if you win.)
Donjon: Imprisonment is primarily Woe (though it could be Weal and Woe in very limited circumstances e.g. if you're being hunted by something and you don't want it to catch you.)
Euryale: Woe, there's no possible benefit to getting permanently cursed.
Fates: Weal, nothing bad about a get out of X free card.
Flames: Woe, few people want an outsider mad at them. (Potential Weal if you're the bloodthirsty/combative sort, e.g. a cleric of Garagos.)
Fool: Weal and Woe (Woe for the XP loss, Weal for the redraw.)
Gem: Now this one's interesting. Money is nice, but how do you get it? It could all appear in the air above your head. Or you'd be a bigger target for bandits lugging a sack of riches around. I would most likely go with Neither here.
Idiot: Weal and Woe, same reasons as Fool.
Jester: I'm leaning towards Weal, but the two draws could be pretty bad. The Augury can't see past the initial pull after all. Ultimately Neither.
Key: Weal. it carries some of the same risks as Gem, but also explicitly lets you defend yourself (since it has to be something you can use), therefore it has less of the risks.
Knight: *dies laughing.* (Neither.)
Moon: Obviously wishes can turn out pretty bad, but I'd be nice and let this one be a Weal (as that is how most mortals would see it.)
Rogue: Woe - Betrayal stinks.
Ruin: Woe unless you're an extreme ascetic (in which case you probably don't have anything anyway.)
Skull: See Flames
Star: Weal!
Sun: Weal!
Talons: See Ruin
Throne: Castles are a lot of work. Hell, if you're an adventurer you probably aren't that interested in settling down to begin with. Neither.
Vizier: Weal - Knowledge is power (even impractical knowledge.)
Void: Unlike even Donjon, I see no possible positive to this. Woe.

[BenTheJester]

You could have a "russian roulette" game.


The setting is that a very powerful mage organizes a tournament where the risk is high, but rewards are enormous.

The mage brings both contestant to a small demi-plane, where they both are unable to affect each other and can't get out by any mean. The realm would be empty if it was not for the lone table on which lies the Deck.

From the outside, a big scrying pool is displayed and the people watching can make various types of bet, either on the players and/or the effect that will occur.

The players then draw a card from the deck, turn by turn. The only way to escape is by having the other player draw a card that would kill/emprison him.


You can also allow for various rules, like giving the players the ability to make the other person draw twice in a row 1/game, or the ability to make the other guy redraw.

[Kislath]

I would leave everything just as it is, and if the PC's are dumb enough to use it, they get what they deserve. As for the plothook, maybe they encounter a band of heroes dedicated to keeping the Deck out of circulation, and they need help.

[Tyndmyr]

The deck of many things could be used to make the house of many cards.

It'd be epic.