Difference Between M&M 2e and 3e?

[Starsign]

I have heard good things about M&M 3e, but I have never played it. I was wondering what the differences were between it and 2e (which I have played), and which one people like better. Could you fill me in please?

[dsmiles]

Haven't played 3e (DC Adventures), but I hear it has gotten further away from the d20 mechanic. It's also relatively new, so there are more books available for 2e right now. Personally, I only picked up 2e about a month ago, and I loved it.

[Starsign]

Haven't played 3e (DC Adventures), but I hear it has gotten further away from the d20 mechanic. It's also relatively new, so there are more books available for 2e right now. Personally, I only picked up 2e about a month ago, and I loved it.
Yeah, I enjoyed 2e as well. I've heard many things about 3e though so anyone else who has played 3e like to speak their mind?

[Optimator]

I was under the impression that it wasn't even out yet, only some DC comics book using the 3rd edition rules. Like some sort of preview. It may have been released since I read/heard that though.

[Gralamin]

I was under the impression that it wasn't even out yet, only some DC comics book using the 3rd edition rules. Like some sort of preview. It may have been released since I read/heard that though.

This is correct.


From my look at it, it has some nice changes (like limited power attack for everyone for free), and some odd things (Combining ranged attack and melee attack into a fighting stat), but overall the difference is so minor that you can port the good ideas back into M&M2e without much, if any, pain.

So I recommend grabbing the M&M3 taking a look through it, and dumping ideas back into 2.

[Pinnacle]

Overall, the core of it is still very similar.
Let's see, some new stuff..


Some things cost different. Skills are now 2 ranks per point instead of 4, but the list is condensed so you get more value for each skill rank (Theoretically... this has been the subject of some complaints; depending on which skills your character used and whether they've been condensed or not your points may go up or down).
Since skills gives +2/point, the same as Attack Specialization, the feat has been replaced with Close and Ranged Combat skills. I like that, since it means you can add an odd number to a particular attack if you want, but it doesn't change much.
Your total skill bonus is limited by PL, rather than having separate limits for skill ranks and Ability bonuses. It's simple, 10+PL.

Some things have been renamed, but essentially work the same.
Advantages are the new Feats. I think I prefer that name, more descriptive of what most of them actually are.

Luck only allows you an extra re-roll, not a real Hero Point that can do any of the things they do.

There are eight ability scores--Strength, Agility, Dexterity, Stamina, Fighting, Intellect, Awareness, and Presence. Fighting refers specifically to melee combat ability, since obviously all superheroes are rather good at fighting as a whole. Gralamin is incorrect; Fighting adds to close attacks and Parry defense, not close and ranged attacks.

Defense has been split into Parry (defense vs close attacks) and Dodge (defense vs ranged attacks), but Dodge also doubles as what was once Reflex.

Attack rolls and defenses are all based on ability scores again. Since close attack comes from Fighting instead of Strength, the problem with the same stat adding to both attack and damage is gone.
Strength adds to Damage (adding strength-based to a Damage power is free unlike 2E's Mighty feat, though of course you still need to pay to add any extras to the Strength bonus), Agility adds to Dodge defense, Dexterity adds to ranged attacks, Stamina adds to Fortitude and Toughness, Fighting adds to Parry defense and close attacks, and Awareness adds to Will.
No more Base Attack Bonus and Base Defense Bonus.

The Aggressive Stance and similar combat moves are replaced by allowing anybody to use Accurate/All-Out/Defensive/Power Attack up to +/-2. The Advantages still exist, but raise it to the old limit of +/-5.

Ooh, I should mention Affliction. It's a new power that covers a lot of ground, and a good number of 2E powers are covered by Affliction. Basically, there are three tiers of conditions, and you pick which ones you want and whether it's resisted by either Will or Fortitude (which is kinda an irrelevant option since you could've changed it with Alternate Resistance for free anyway *shrug*). So you can make Fatigue with it, or Dazzle, or Mind Control (which also brings the power level of that last on in line... I didn't use it often, but it's a bit much, no?).


Lots of little things... Takedown is better. Evasion grants a circumstance bonus vs areas (so not limited by PL) rather than change the rules for you.


EDIT: One little thing I forgot. Ability scores and modifiers are gone, replaced by just ranks/modifiers. Really, the only reason the scores exist is because of rolling, and in a build-your-character-from-points system you're not gonna roll (also, it would work terribly for a superhero system since many characters are on a completely different level in one or more scores). Average ability rank is 0. Two points to increase or decrease it. Simple.

[Sophistemon]

Overall, the core of it is still very similar.
Let's see, some new stuff...
Pretty good summary.

Personally, I like the new rules.

They take a little bit of work to get used to compared to 2E, but there's a lot of cool stuff going on.

[Optimator]

Wait, it doesn't have the same Ability Stats? Weird.

[Pinnacle]

Wait, it doesn't have the same Ability Stats? Weird.

Mostly just different names.
Strength = Strength
Stamina = Constitution
Intellect = Intelligence
Awareness = Wisdom
Presence = Charisma


The only differences are splitting up Dexterity and Agility (which makes sense to me, as they are definitely not the same thing even if the same characters often have them both) and adding Fighting.
And Fighting really exists 'cuz otherwise there wouldn't be a score to go to close attack bonus and Parry. Plus, it allows for below-average attack and defense bonus, which I like for "making sense" reasons even if it won't come up much 'cuz you just assume all the bystanders are average all 'round for simplicity sake.

[Starsign]

Wow, that's a lot of info Pinnacle, thanks! :smallsmile:

I've only played 2e myself and enjoyed it, though I was not a fan of ability scores, so I'm glad that's changed. So only the DC Comics version of 3e is out atm? What will other sources be for 3e and when will they be coming?

[Beleriphon]

Wow, that's a lot of info Pinnacle, thanks! :smallsmile:

I've only played 2e myself and enjoyed it, though I was not a fan of ability scores, so I'm glad that's changed. So only the DC Comics version of 3e is out atm? What will other sources be for 3e and when will they be coming?

The M&M Heroes Handbook will be out soon. It's the same as DCA without the DC stuff, and it's soft cover. We can expect that most of the material for second edition will be available, quite similar in terms of content for books. Right now only DC Adventures Heroes Handbook, Heroes and Villians Vol. 1 & 2, and the DC Adventures Universe books have been announced.