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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5] Homebrew magic item creation rules?



Warlawk
2010-11-11, 01:26 AM
Ok, so our weekly gaming group just finally started back up after taking the summer off. We're playing a D&D 3.5 forgotten realms game. Pretty standard. I am playing a Wizard for the first time in something like a decade, and wanted to look at the item crafting rules. Mostly because they're painfully bad. If you use them extensively you end up hemorrhaging xp and gimping your character. If you take the feats and use them sparingly, you just end up gimping yourself with a bunch of feats you really don't use. I think this is one point where 4E really made a good move forward.

At any rate, here is just a first draft rough project on revamp for 3.5 crafting rules. Very rough draft, just wanted to get my ideas down in writing while they were fresh. I am open to any sort of critique or any houserules people may already have around that involve non-xp based magic item crafting. The non spellcaster section is really just framework and doesn't have the specifics yet for ranks of craft, exact values etc. I need to take a hard look at the numbers in the books before laying that out, but it's not really the focus of this anyways, it just is a bit of a tack on idea that would allow exceptionally skilled craftsmen to enchant items, which seems to come up regularly in various fiction (Bruenor with Aegis Fang being a prime example built right into D&D).

The following are intended to supplement and not supplant the rules given in the various rulebooks. They are additions, not replacements. All the usual requirements for creating an item such as base costs, time frames, spells required and similar things must be met as listed in the books.

Any spellcaster may create an item as if he had the prerequisite item creation feat. He must meet all other requirements such as spells known to create the item, minimum caster level and other such requirements. There is no Xp cost to create this item, however the gold cost to create the item is 100% of the market value. Up to 25% of this cost may be fulfilled with "rare items" or specific enchanting materials. During each day of the crafting process all of the characters spells of the highest level he is able to cast are considered to be spent and may not be cast in the regular way. This energy is used as part of the creation process to imbue magical energy into the item.

Any person without spellcasting ability may create magical items in this fashion through use of the Craft skill. The relevant craft skill minus 5 can be used in place of the minimum caster level for creation of items specifically relating to that skill (an armorsmith may create armor, but not weapons, etc). The character also takes 1 point of con damage per X000 gold market value of the item. This damage may not be magically healed and heals slowly at the rate of 1 point per week. Please note that only actual skill ranks may be used to meet this qualifier, racial bonuses, magical bonuses or anything aside from raw skill ranks are not considered for this qualification. Should the crafter seek to create an item with special properties (flaming sword for instance) rare materials equal to at least 10% of the market value will be required, these materials do count toward the cost of creating the item. More than 10% may be used, though not more than 25% of the market value.

A spellcaster who has taken the relevant item creation feat may create items without paying the XP cost for the item, however the gold cost to create an item in this way is 80% of the market value of the item. Rare items or Enchanting Materials may be used to cover up to 25% of the cost of an item created in this way.

A spellcaster who has taken the relevant item creation feat and chooses to expend XP during the process as dictated by the item creation rules listed in the rulebooks may create the item without need of a lab as the raw energy of his life force replaces many of the alchemical processes usually used to prepare an item to accept the infusions of magical energy.


Disenchant Magical Item
Universal, ritual.
Cast time: 8 Hours
Range: Self
Target: 1 magical item which remains in the possession of the caster for the entire cast time.
Description:
This ritual allows the caster to destroy one magical item in his possession for the duration of the casting time. The caster may not destroy an item which far exceeds his own potential to make. While it is easier to destroy than to create, there are limits. If the item has a minimum caster level to create which is greater than the Caster level +3 of the person casting this spell, the item is unaffected by the ritual. While casting this spell the caster is in a light trance and may take no other actions. The caster is considered to be flat footed and may not defend himself. Any damage taken will interrupt the cast unless a concentration check is passed per the usual guidelines. The ritual is demanding enough that the caster may not ride an animal under his control, though he may remain mounted if his mount is led by another, or ride in a wagon. Any required ride check or balance check to remain mounted or seated in a transport is automatically failed and requires a concentration check to not interrupt the ritual. If the ritual is successfully completed the item in question is destroyed and the caster is able to gather 50% of its value in materials which may be used in the creation of magical items.
SPECIAL: This spell may be learned no earlier than caster level 5. When preparing the spell it is always considered to be of the highest level the caster is able to cast and must be prepared (or cast, in the case of spontaneous casting classes) at the highest spell level available.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-11-11, 07:26 AM
Looks okay for a house rule - but why not just adopt the Pathfinder item creation rules (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html)?
They're very similar to D&D 3.5. They don't have an XP cost, but have a craft check instead (with consequences if you fail the check badly).

DracoDei
2010-11-11, 11:42 AM
To me, rare items etc are assumed to be the default setting... you don't just pile up some gold and it vanishes in the course of enchanting an item. You need Eye of Newt (and in the extreme cases they have to all be blue-eyed newts, who died of natural causes before the eyes were harvested), and a feather from a roc with severe arachnophobia and such like. That is what you buy with the "GP cost to create" now, of course, the middlemen are going to want their cut, and so you can probably save some coin by doing that step yourself. One of my characters was actually such a middle-man by trade (Archery-Path Ranger with Favored Enemy Abberation). Which reminds me... generic "residuum" (sp!) is a REAL fluff-killer to me.

I am not so sure that trading in XPs to save GPs is as bad a deal as you make it out to be. I remember a thread (or was it part of the "Being Batman" thread?) on the concept that if you bling yourself out enough, and end up a level behind the party, you not only have really effective gear (even if it is just a bunch of scrolls), but you also get XPs at a greater rate, since you are a level lower. I understand that many players are very very reluctant to spend XPs, and for them your rules may make sense.

Also, as I understand it, the usual method for out-right destroying anything less than an artifact is to melt it down/burn it/grind it to powder. For a more refined method, try my Reverse Enchanting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137592) rule.

Warlawk
2010-11-11, 06:04 PM
To me, rare items etc are assumed to be the default setting... you don't just pile up some gold and it vanishes in the course of enchanting an item. You need Eye of Newt (and in the extreme cases they have to all be blue-eyed newts, who died of natural causes before the eyes were harvested), and a feather from a roc with severe arachnophobia and such like. That is what you buy with the "GP cost to create" now, of course, the middlemen are going to want their cut, and so you can probably save some coin by doing that step yourself. One of my characters was actually such a middle-man by trade (Archery-Path Ranger with Favored Enemy Abberation). Which reminds me... generic "residuum" (sp!) is a REAL fluff-killer to me.

Just a point of clarification on this. While it is assumed that you aren't converting gold straight to magic items, it is also a given in the written rulebooks that in most cases the things you need are commonly available and worth about that much gold. When I say "rare items" I mean something you can't go down to your local corner magic 7-11 and buy. Something that is harvested from the body of a rare and powerful beast, or only grows in a difficult to reach location. In short, something that you must acquire within the context of an adventure, not a shopping trip.

I have mixed feelings regarding "residium" type materials. I like that it simplifies bookkeeping and streamlines that part of play, but don't really like the feel of it. What I had in mind for the disenchant ritual was more along the lines of something specific to each item destroyed. Perhaps you DE a sword which has a gem in the pommel and the magical energy is shunted into the gem. The gem may then be used in the creation of a new item and counts as XXXX gold for the creation process. Or the gem shatters and each piece counts as XXX gold, etc. A piece of armor or shield with a protective rune inscribed on it may be destroyed and leave behind a thin sheet of metal with a glowing rune that would be worked into the new item created. Something specific and unique for each situation.



I am not so sure that trading in XPs to save GPs is as bad a deal as you make it out to be. I remember a thread (or was it part of the "Being Batman" thread?) on the concept that if you bling yourself out enough, and end up a level behind the party, you not only have really effective gear (even if it is just a bunch of scrolls), but you also get XPs at a greater rate, since you are a level lower. I understand that many players are very very reluctant to spend XPs, and for them your rules may make sense.

I've seen the writeup you refer to. Frankly, tinkering with xp totals to hit rough target numbers to abuse the xp reward system is a bit more metagaming than we want at our table (not saying it's wrong, just that it's wrong for our group). The core four members of our gaming group have been gaming together for 10 to 15 years (depending on the person in question) and experience has shown that if a crafting system requires xp, no one will use it, period. So it is the prevailing attitude of the group, it's just that the people who generally play the wizard types don't much care about it, so never bothered to look into changing it. Above and beyond that, xp is awarded in our games based on party level and not player level, so this trick wouldn't even work.

I do appreciate the feedback, but most of it is just not well suited to our group.


Looks okay for a house rule - but why not just adopt the Pathfinder item creation rules (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html)?
They're very similar to D&D 3.5. They don't have an XP cost, but have a craft check instead (with consequences if you fail the check badly).

Thank you, taking a good hard look at this. It's always easier to get a DM to look over a published source and bring it in than to get a scratch written houserule approved. First glance though really makes those skill checks seem trivial. I guess they are important for crafters who do not have access to the spells required to make the items, but for a caster who has spellcraft capped out and the spells required to make the item you pretty much only blow the check on a 1, and there's nothing saying you can't take 10 (lol 80 hours per 1K gold value I guess kinda hurts). Looks like it could be a good system though, thanks for pointing it out. I am aware of pathfinder, but don't follow it or have any direct friends that play it, so I don't really keep current on it.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-11-13, 07:18 PM
...
Thank you, taking a good hard look at this. It's always easier to get a DM to look over a published source and bring it in than to get a scratch written houserule approved. First glance though really makes those skill checks seem trivial. I guess they are important for crafters who do not have access to the spells required to make the items, but for a caster who has spellcraft capped out and the spells required to make the item you pretty much only blow the check on a 1, and there's nothing saying you can't take 10 (lol 80 hours per 1K gold value I guess kinda hurts). Looks like it could be a good system though, thanks for pointing it out. I am aware of pathfinder, but don't follow it or have any direct friends that play it, so I don't really keep current on it.
Glad to be helpful.

I guess the idea that the PF writers had was to let casters make items without being penalised except when they try to exceed their comfortable capabilities.
Also, in PF there is a feat that allows you to make items without being a caster at all - Master Craftsman.