Help with character building

[Krudin]

So I'm gonna be playing in a 3.5 game with some friends, but I'm being limited to core only. This upsets me :smallfurious:

We are gonna be doing Expedition to Castle Ravenloft in 3.5e. I would like all your help in making the most broken level 6 non-evil PC allowable with only core.

Make me proud.

[Krudin]

Please help?

[GodGoblin]

Im not a big optimiser but for core only pure Druid is usually your best bet, and at level 6 you will be wildshaping too.

Also the usual response to optimising is play wizard! But im unsure of its brokeness with core, but again a very effective choice none the less espiecally at mid to high levels.

[Greenish]

So I'm gonna be playing in a 3.5 game with some friends, but I'm being limited to core only. This upsets me :smallfurious:

I would like all your help in making the most broken level 6 non-evil PC allowable with only core.Making a broken character because you don't approve the premise of the game is bad form.

[Telonius]

Making a broken character because you don't approve the premise of the game is bad form.

This. If the DM has limited it to Core, it's usually because he thinks non-core options give people too much power. Responding to it by trying to break the game using Core only (which frankly isn't all that hard to do) isn't really getting at the larger issue. It will probably get a rulebook flung at you, or lead to weeks and months in conflict with the DM. If you're trying to convince the DM that core is broken too, there are better ways to do it than ruining a session that he's planned for.

[arrowhen]

If they're really your friends, why would you want to break their game?

[Kylarra]

Well I suggest the mighty commoner. Max out your cha and your handle animal and let your minions do your bidding.

[Telonius]

Well I suggest the mighty commoner. Max out your cha and your handle animal and let your minions do your bidding.

Just make sure that you get yourself a nice hat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175194).

[TroubleBrewing]

Making a broken character because you don't approve the premise of the game is bad form.

+1, but it is ultimately irrelevant. I'm sure we've all been in the same situation: A game we don't approve of, so we break it. It's happened with every group I've ever played with at least once a year.

As to the OP's question, Druid or Wizard. Druid if you want to avoid a lot of the typical DM "fixes" to your power level, stolen spellbook being most common. The Druid allows you to have an additional meatshield in the form of an AC, and if you go Warbeast Fleshraker you're pretty much set. Pick good spells, don't be a total moron with battlefield placement, and never, EVER ride your animal companion (Check it's picture in MM3: spikes EVERYWHERE) and you should be golden.

[Coidzor]

+1, but it is ultimately irrelevant. I'm sure we've all been in the same situation: A game we don't approve of, so we break it. It's happened with every group I've ever played with at least once a year.

As to the OP's question, Druid or Wizard. Druid if you want to avoid a lot of the typical DM "fixes" to your power level, stolen spellbook being most common. The Druid allows you to have an additional meatshield in the form of an AC, and if you go Warbeast Fleshraker you're pretty much set. Pick good spells, don't be a total moron with battlefield placement, and never, EVER ride your animal companion (Check it's picture in MM3: spikes EVERYWHERE) and you should be golden.

Yeah, but you don't suffer any penalties from riding a fleshraker by RAW. Bloodstrikers, on the other hand, have to have an exotic saddle, but I think you need an exotic saddle for both creature's body types anyway.

I like Bubs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38)as a demonstration of the power of Handle Animal.

[Krudin]

I've played D&D with the GM for about a decade now. I don't really do the whole make a broken character from the get go thing. Oh sure I've had characters get powerful because of stuff they got, but that's something else entirely.

Other players for Expedition have the potential option of using other books if their concept is something he likes, but mostly core. I said I wanted to play a truenamer. I like them even though they suck. Gave him a concept and he said no and banned me from even trying other concepts from non-core books.

[Coidzor]

That seems a bit harsh, but probably for your own good. :smalleek: Truenamer.... 12 gods... Then again, I think how terrified I'd be as a truenamer in Ravenloft would be entirely appropriate considering the intended atmosphere.

[SurlySeraph]

Fleshrakers aren't in core, though. Thus, irrelevant.

Human Druid 6, Natural Spell, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Extend Spell. There are a number of good choices for your animal companion. A Dire Bat to fly on, Dire Badger to burrow under things with, or wolf for tripping are all good; an ape is probably the best fighter available. Spell-wise... Entangle, summoning, and buffing the party. You really can't mess up.

[Eldariel]

Fleshrakers aren't in core, though. Thus, irrelevant.

Human Druid 6, Natural Spell, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Extend Spell. There are a number of good choices for your animal companion. A Dire Bat to fly on, Dire Badger to burrow under things with, or wolf for tripping are all good; an ape is probably the best fighter available. Spell-wise... Entangle, summoning, and buffing the party. You really can't mess up.

Riding Dog is a viable option too. You also have Wildshape into e.g. Deinonychus already which is quite excellent. Don't forget to use Greater Magic Fang and Barkskin as appropriate (GMF should be all day on your AC and probably on yourself too).

With other stats, you could also consider stuff like Combat Expertise > Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike > Improved Grapple or so for your early feats; it all depends on your own focus. But yeah, spell focus is alright. Learn your summons, heal with Wands, use Handle Animal as appropriate, rock with your Animal Companion and profit.

[Krudin]

That seems a bit harsh, but probably for your own good. :smalleek: Truenamer.... 12 gods... Then again, I think how terrified I'd be as a truenamer in Ravenloft would be entirely appropriate considering the intended atmosphere.

I don't think he knows about the class, but is assuming that I'm picking a horribly disgusting class.

His favorite thing to play is a blaster mage. The more the collateral damage to better to him.

[Krudin]

Any other ideas, or suggestions for Mage or druid builds?

Specifically ones that would be useful on Ravenloft.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wizard probably gets the most abusive tricks, Druid is probably just easier to play.

At level 6 a Wizard gets spells like Explosive Runes and Shrink Item, good for setting up some silly stuff pre-adventure without using your adventure-day spell slots. Get a Lesser Rod of Extend for Shrink Item. Good spells to have prepared during adventures include Web, Glitterdust, (Rod of Extended) Rope Trick, and Dispel Magic for your Explosive Runes shenanigans. Go with a Gray Elf from the Monster Manual, get proficiency in bows.

Spend a few years in-game prior to the adventure casting Explosive Runes on small slips of paper, such as fortune cookie prizes. It's permanent until discharged, so you'll be able to have thousands of them. Tie them into bundles of ten, each bundle deals 60d6 damage. Tie then to arrows to be fired into opponents, to tangle foot bags so they'll stick to glued opponents, to rocks so your familiar can drop them into opponents' squares from high enough up to not be in range of the blast, etc. Your teammates can fire those arrows if you wish so you won't have to use your actions for it. Cast an area Dispel Magic to detonate the runes, failing to dispel them makes them blow up. You may automatically succeed in dispelling your own spells, but you don't have to; you can and should voluntarily fail the check to dispel all ten explosive runes papers in the bundle, and they all detonate dealing 60d6 damage. All of your 3rd level spell slots should be Dispel Magic, and you should consider specializing in Abjuration just to get more.

Shrink Item can be extremely useful if used creatively. At level 6 you can shrink up to 12 cubic feet of material into a harmless cloth patch, or into an identical item 1/16 normal size. For example, shrink a 12 cu. ft. puddle of molten lava, it becomes a harmless cloth patch, and when you throw it onto the ground in someone's square it reverts back to being a harmful effect. This can be used to burn through wooden floors as well. Another common tactic for the higher levels (or with Abrupt Jaunt in PH2) is to shrink a big metal dome to the size of a bowl, and wear it on your head as a helmet. If you walk into an AMF the shrink spell is suppressed and the metal dome lands on the ground shielding your character, thus blocking the antimagic effect and allowing you to escape via teleportation effects. Another trick for the dome is to secure some of your molten lava patches to the underside of it, speak the command word to dismiss the dome's shrink when standing next to a powerful opponent thus trapping you both under it, Abrupt Jaunt out from under it, and speak the command word to dismiss the lava puddles' shrink so the enemy is trapped under a metal dome filled with lava. Shrinking extremely heavy objects then throwing them down onto opponents is also effective, not to mention hilarious when you use an anvil. You could shrink a locked door and if you need to block someone's path make it unshrink in an open doorway. You could have bulky items like ladders and boats on hand in case you need them, though a Robe of Useful Items is probably better for things like that.

[mucat]

I'm sure we've all been in the same situation: A game we don't approve of, so we break it.

What? No, we haven't all done that; I hope very few people would do it. It's a petulant, whiny move, and a ridiculous waste of time as well. Are there really people with enough free time to attend a game they don't like, just for the sake of making sure no one else has fun either?

[Tvtyrant]

Play a Monk, they are broken.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What you do is make a game-breaking character, and play it as Brilliant But Lazy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrilliantButLazy), watching out for himself first and foremost and not really doing anything useful or putting forth much effort. When the party is in some serious trouble he finally agrees to lift a finger or use some of his precious resources to save them all, but only to show them how awesome he is. "Here, hit them with this," handing a character an arrow with ten Explosive Runes papers tied to it, readying an action to cast Dispel Magic once it's stuck into an opponent. Make a character who could overshadow the rest of the party, but who doesn't put forth enough effort to do so, and when he does the other guys can at least say they helped.

In Core-only, Improved Familiar in the DMG can be extremely useful. You can take it as early as 3rd level, but wait until 7th to get a new one. An Imp (you can be LN) is probably the best choice, considering its Suggestion spell-like ability, Invisibility at will, Fast Healing, etc. plus it can throw tanglefoot bags, use martial weapons, and get Polymorphed into combat-capable outsider forms.

[Eldariel]

In Core-only, Improved Familiar in the DMG can be extremely useful. You can take it as early as 3rd level, but wait until 7th to get a new one. An Imp (you can be LN) is probably the best choice, considering its Suggestion spell-like ability, Invisibility at will, Fast Healing, etc. plus it can throw tanglefoot bags, use martial weapons, and get Polymorphed into combat-capable outsider forms.

USE MAGIC DEVICE! Seriously, Imps have 14 base Cha so with like one level of Loremaster in your build to max out UMD, they are suddenly perfectly competent Wand-wielders. Pseudodragon is another nice choice thanks to Telepathy.

[Krudin]

I like the shrink thing. Shrink something down to size, trick someone into eating it. Dismiss. Dead.

[Krudin]

Had a thought and want the board's opinion on something.

Someone with the ability to use a scroll (mage, use magic device, whatever), and two scrolls of wish, writes down on a piece of paper something they want to accomplish via a Wish spell.

They then Wish to know the proper phrasing to know how to accomplish the goal written down on said piece of paper without unwanted, by them, side effects.

They then make the Wish they know to accomplish the goal they desire without negative consequence.

What do you think?

[GodGoblin]

Then the second wish would be worded perfectly but the first wish could age you 80 years so that you now have the wisdom to plan the perfect wish.

Thats a bit far fetched I know but you get the idea, the DM would most likley mess you over on the first wish.

[Krudin]

Years ago the Dm gave me a "get out of churlish free" card for doing him a favor. I intend to cash it in now. Nearly half a decade after he gave it. It has no experation date. ^_^

[Serpentine]

What? No, we haven't all done that; I hope very few people would do it. It's a petulant, whiny move, and a ridiculous waste of time as well. Are there really people with enough free time to attend a game they don't like, just for the sake of making sure no one else has fun either?I'm not enjoying a game I'm in at the moment, so I'm going to change to a hopefully more appropriate character (stoner Plant Druid). If I still don't really like the game, I'll quit (I have pretty good reasons to anyway).
If someone tried that on me, I would respectfully suggest that perhaps my game isn't for them.

Out of curiosity, though, what about race choice? What would people consider abusable in that regard?

[Last Laugh]

USE MAGIC DEVICE! Seriously, Imps have 14 base Cha so with like one level of Loremaster in your build to max out UMD, they are suddenly perfectly competent Wand-wielders. Pseudodragon is another nice choice thanks to Telepathy.
To be fair, Psuedodragons are also extra cute.

[Eldariel]

To be fair, Psuedodragons are also extra cute.

So are Imps. Especially thanks to Alter Self :smallbiggrin:

[Krudin]

Also, you could work into the second Wish undoing negatives from the first wish.

[Krudin]

I went with a druid. I have a wolf still. I sadly lack greatly in the strength department.

I had an idea for druids or rangers though. Owlbear eggs can be bought for 3k gold a piece. Buy a couple and get owlbears to back-up your animal companion. Convince your DM that you don't have to pay for training since you are a druid and could do it yourself with Handle Animal. The Mass Stat boosting spells to boost your Owlbear squad and your companion.

Then you can Awaken the owlbears. The spell says they won't necessarily stay with you beyond a specific task, but owlbears are fiercely loyal if raised from hatching.

Who needs a party when you have a druid with his animal companion, spontaneous "summon natures face-rippers" and a squad of awakened owlbears?

[true_shinken]

Then you can Awaken the owlbears. The spell says they won't necessarily stay with you beyond a specific task, but owlbears are fiercely loyal if raised from hatching.

That would be the optimal way to go. Unfortunately, it is not possible.

Owlbear
Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Emphasis mine.