[3.5]Figuring Out XP for sort-of PvP Scenario

[TaliaJacta]

So, my group consists of a Druid, a Beastmaster, a Cleric, and a Fighter. (There was also a rogue, but she couldn't come to the session in question.) During a jailbreak, the Cleric killed a guard, and the guard's husband came after her in revenge, accompanied by a friend.
The Fighter sided with the NPC, and the Druid sided with the Fighter. The Beastmaster sided with the Cleric.

So, the NPCs come up to the adventurers on the road, and the bereaved husband starts shooting arrows at the Cleric. The Fighter aids in knocking the Cleric unconscious, while the Druid attacks the Beastmaster after the Beastmaster attacks the Fighter. The Cleric tries to attack the NPCs, but fails due to provoking a lot of AoOs from the Fighter. The husband's friend stands by and heals a few people (he's a cleric), but doesn't really participate in the fight.

The fight ends with the Cleric unconscious and manacled on the back of the NPC's horse. The Beastmaster has been Intimidated into backing down by the Fighter.

I've never dealt with PvP before, and am not entirely sure how the distribution of XP should go, especially with NPCs involved. Does anyone have any advice?

[Mikka]

No kill no xp :thog:

[Susano-wo]

no, defeating the challnege gains xp

characters with class levels have CR=class levels, so calculate the xp as an encounter using theose CR's (possibly modified by the favorable advantage of an ambush)

[The Glyphstone]

yeah, but unless you dish out XP for individual players based on what they 'defeated', then you have players getting XP for 'defeating' themselves, which is...odd. And awarding XP player-by-player always ends in disaster and rapidly disparate levels within the party, plus severe damage to cohesion. I'd just give the entire party a flat award against an 'opponent' of a CR equal to their average ECL, since this looks to be an honest RP/scenario-driven PvP encounter instead of a lulzEVILkill fight.

[jinx1016]

I am fairly curious why the fighter (who i assume was in jail with everyone else) got angry with the cleric because they broke out and someone died. i imagene alignments are coming into play here.:smallfrown:

however, it sounds like at the bare minimum some RP XP is in order. (i usually just as-hoc stuff like that).

and as was mentioned earlier, you could give out XP for the fight, but it does set a bad precedent to give XP for attacking your party members.

[Coidzor]

XP to all individuals as though overcoming the weakest faction in the confrontation, which sounds like they'd all get XP for defeating an EL of whatever two of the party members would equal. (party level +2?) But, yeah, I would recommend against exacerbating anything by giving uneven XP.

I think the bigger question is what's going to happen now...

[Susano-wo]

yeah, but unless you dish out XP for individual players based on what they 'defeated', then you have players getting XP for 'defeating' themselves, which is...odd. And awarding XP player-by-player always ends in disaster and rapidly disparate levels within the party, plus severe damage to cohesion. I'd just give the entire party a flat award against an 'opponent' of a CR equal to their average ECL, since this looks to be an honest RP/scenario-driven PvP encounter instead of a lulzEVILkill fight.

I wasn't saying give all players XP, only the party that won, since the other party failed to overcome the challenge. This does allow for XP differences, but there's really no way aournd it with a PvP situation

[The Glyphstone]

I wasn't saying give all players XP, only the party that won, since the other party failed to overcome the challenge. This does allow for XP differences, but there's really no way aournd it with a PvP situation

There is a workaround though - parties can still get XP for traps that they set off and manage to survive. So there is precedent for giving XP for failing at something, such as battling your party and losing.

[Susano-wo]

eh, I'd say that's misapplying the rational: the reasoning is that overcoming the challenge gets you xp. he challenge of a trap is to bypass or disarm it. The challenge of battling a group of people is to A: get to a goal, prevent them from doing X, or defeat them (or any number of other reasons, I am sure) so unless the losing group had some other goal in mind that they accomlished, there is no rules based reason to give them XP.
As far as non rules reasons, I can see both sides. :smallsmile:
On the giving them XP side, you don't want 1/2 the characters getting much more XP, which can happen if if happens too often
On the not giving them xp side, you want people to feel that their actions matter, and that different outcomes are, well different

Oh and the fighters reasons seem bizarre unless there is some missing context

[The Glyphstone]

Unless you look at it as:

Group 1: The attackers (Druid, Fighter, NPC) have the goal of...um...beating up their buddies for fun and profit and righteous revenge?

Group 2: The defenders (Cleric and Beastmaster) have the goal of...um...surviving the callous betrayal of their allies?

See, both groups accomplished their goal. XP all around!:smallcool:

[WinWin]

Not RAW, but I try not to reward players for PvP (long story, but it tends to encourage some players). You could always just give experience for good roleplaying though.

[TaliaJacta]

I am fairly curious why the fighter (who i assume was in jail with everyone else) got angry with the cleric because they broke out and someone died. i imagene alignments are coming into play here.:smallfrown:

There were a few elements at work:
1. The PCs had been imprisoned for relatively minor crimes.
2. The fighter was a native of the city in question.
3. The cleric had a chance to knock the guard unconscious, and made the willful decision to kill her instead.
4. It later turned out that the fighter was acquainted with the guard's husband.

I was expecting something like this to happen; character creation kind of happened in a vacuum, most of the PCs weren't really compatible with each other, and everyone's RP styles weren't meshing very well. I have a feeling I'll be running two separate games now.