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Lev
2010-11-11, 06:49 PM
Does enlarge person (sorc/wiz) stack with Expansion the psionic power?

If so, is it possible to add the +6 points and grow an additional size, changing you from a medium to a gargantuan creature?

Keld Denar
2010-11-11, 07:30 PM
No. Multiple magical effects that change your size never stack.

Urpriest
2010-11-11, 08:03 PM
However, if you managed to shrink the rest of the world instead...

Lev
2010-11-11, 11:08 PM
No. Multiple magical effects that change your size never stack.

Psionic == Magical? :smalleek:

Lhurgyof
2010-11-11, 11:10 PM
Psionic == Magical? :smalleek:

The "standard" D&D assumption is that Magic = Psionics, see Psionic/Magic Transparency in the XPH.

SurlySeraph
2010-11-11, 11:10 PM
By default, psionics = magic. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicsMagicTransparenc y)

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-11, 11:11 PM
Psionic == Magical? :smalleek:

Did you think it was non-magical? :smallconfused:

Lev
2010-11-11, 11:16 PM
Did you think it was non-magical? :smallconfused:
I assumed detect magic did not detect psionics, I assumed antimagic fiends did not negate psionics.

I assumed that magic, like incarnum or physical force worked on another principle altogether. Just like a sunburn from the radiation of the sun would not be blocked by antimagic I thought a combination of advanced alpha/beta/whatever focused brainwaves would not be.

Tavar
2010-11-11, 11:23 PM
That's not the way it's normally presented. In fact, Incarnum too is blocked by the same things as standard magic.

I find it helpful to think of it as fuel for a car. Vancian is Gasoline. Psionics is electricity. Truenaming is air. The first two work pretty much the same, and you can stop the car in the same ways. But they need different things to operate, and there are differences between them.

tyckspoon
2010-11-11, 11:37 PM
I assumed detect magic did not detect psionics, I assumed antimagic fiends did not negate psionics.

I assumed that magic, like incarnum or physical force worked on another principle altogether. Just like a sunburn from the radiation of the sun would not be blocked by antimagic I thought a combination of advanced alpha/beta/whatever focused brainwaves would not be.

Even if you treat them as different (it's generally not recommended, as it presents some balance issues when mixing them in the same world) Expansion states that it does not stack with other size-increasing effects. There is no qualifier of 'magical', 'psionic', or anything else in there- it just doesn't stack, period.

Lev
2010-11-11, 11:48 PM
That's not the way it's normally presented. In fact, Incarnum too is blocked by the same things as standard magic.

I find it helpful to think of it as fuel for a car. Vancian is Gasoline. Psionics is electricity. Truenaming is air. The first two work pretty much the same, and you can stop the car in the same ways. But they need different things to operate, and there are differences between them.
Or we could say that arcane/divine is gas and psionics is butane, but an antimagic field is a vacuum and therefore doesn't let either burn?
I guess I always thought of antimagic like a weave-dampener and not like a vaccume for all energy thats not science related.

Mastikator
2010-11-11, 11:51 PM
No but expansion can be augmented to increase size category by two.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm

You'd be four times as tall and 64 times as heavy. Lucky it doesn't count towards encumbrance (though it should).

HunterOfJello
2010-11-12, 12:06 AM
Psionics and Magic are considered the same for combining, dispelling, and most other effects to preserve game balance. There is a rule variant called "Psionics is Different" that changes this, but that's up to a DM's discretion.

BridgeCity
2010-11-12, 12:06 AM
No but expansion can be augmented to increase size category by two.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm

You'd be four times as tall and 64 times as heavy. Lucky it doesn't count towards encumbrance (though it should).

Im confused, so correct me if I've got this wrong. Are you saying that being bigger should effect you as though you were encumbered?

HunterOfJello
2010-11-12, 12:16 AM
Im confused, so correct me if I've got this wrong. Are you saying that being bigger should effect you as though you were encumbered?

I think he meant that it's lucky because magic that makes you larger shouldn't make you encumbered, but mechanically it could.

Increasing 2 sizes increases your strength by 4, but you and your item's weight by 64, which could make you encumbered. (or something like that)

Lev
2010-11-12, 12:22 AM
I think he meant that it's lucky because magic that makes you larger shouldn't make you encumbered, but mechanically it could.

Increasing 2 sizes increases your strength by 4, but you and your item's weight by 64, which could make you encumbered. (or something like that)
I would think you'd be able to carry much much more.

Keld Denar
2010-11-12, 12:27 AM
Size increases encumberance. Small creatures can carry .75 what mediums can, and large can carry double. Huge can carry 4x as much.

Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm#biggerandSmallerCreatures)

zyborg
2010-11-12, 12:28 AM
Actually, it works quite similar in the real world. Hence why there are no giants.

BridgeCity
2010-11-12, 12:41 AM
I think he meant that it's lucky because magic that makes you larger shouldn't make you encumbered, but mechanically it could.

Increasing 2 sizes increases your strength by 4, but you and your item's weight by 64, which could make you encumbered. (or something like that)

Ah yeah I get you. I thought they were trying to say it would be harder for you to move around given your new bulk, which of course would happen in the real world, but this is a magical effect in a magical world.

Lev
2010-11-12, 03:55 AM
Actually, it works quite similar in the real world. Hence why there are no giants.
What's the difference between an ape and a lizard?

Greenish
2010-11-12, 04:55 AM
What's the difference between an ape and a lizard?The other one is not a mammal?

Lev
2010-11-12, 06:31 AM
The other one is not a mammal?
I was making a dinosaur reference =]

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-12, 08:09 AM
Well in the last King Kong movie, Kong beat 3 tyrannosauruses in a fight, so I think apes win.

Cog
2010-11-12, 11:10 AM
What's the difference between an ape and a lizard?

The "lizards" evolved to that size over a ridiculously high number of generations, and were adapted to it.

If you suddenly made, say, a Velociraptor that big without changing anything else, it'd be just as dead as an ape you did that to.

Greenish
2010-11-12, 11:20 AM
If you suddenly made, say, a Velociraptor that big without changing anything else, it'd be just as dead as an ape you did that to.Perhaps a bad example, in that the theropod body plan was very scalable.

Yuki Akuma
2010-11-12, 11:25 AM
Dinosaurs are/were birds, not reptiles. They have/had much lighter bodies than mammals.

Greenish
2010-11-12, 11:34 AM
Dinosaurs are/were birds, not reptiles. They have/had much lighter bodies than mammals.Reptiles aren't even a real taxonomic group (in modern phylogenetic taxonomy, at least).

Besides, dinosaurs aren't birds, birds are dinosaurs. :smallamused:

Yuki Akuma
2010-11-12, 11:42 AM
x = y == y = x.

Basic mathematics. :smallwink:

Greenish
2010-11-12, 11:54 AM
x = y == y = x.

Basic mathematics. :smallwink:Not all dinosaurs are birds (just a specialized sub-group of theropods), but all birds are dinosaurs.

Don't you try to confuse me with your newfangled algemagibra-thingamajigs!

Yuki Akuma
2010-11-12, 12:01 PM
Not all dinosaurs are birds (just a specialized sub-group of theropods), but all birds are dinosaurs.

Don't you try to confuse me with your newfangled algemagibra-thingamajigs!

(Psst: I'm being silly. I know some dinosaurs weren't birds.)

Fouredged Sword
2010-11-12, 12:11 PM
That and your really big dino's got built for it. Ether with really thick legs and massive leverage in thier birdlike bipedal hips (t-rex) or like a pyramid of meat, with mass mostly centered on a large base and the top being very light (brontosaurus).

Besides, it's the organs that fail first. A human has his heart unable to pump blood to his brain if he is 8 ft tall. That is even with time to get used to it. That is why giantism used to be such a sad disorder before we developed the hormone treatments to stop the growth.

At a point you just gotta say magic and let the greater size be suported by plotonium ions.

Greenish
2010-11-12, 12:14 PM
A human has his heart unable to pump blood to his brain if he is 8 ft tall.Franz Winkelmeier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Winkelmeier) begs to disagree.

Lev
2010-11-12, 03:26 PM
Get ready for an overrun check, cuz' magic doesn't care for your rules of evolution.