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Teln
2010-11-12, 01:06 PM
Okay, the answer to this is probably "lolyes", but I'm not finding anything on exactly how. Are there any guides for Batman Clerics like there are for Batman Wizards? If not, exactly how do you go about being a Batman Cleric?

Tvtyrant
2010-11-12, 01:13 PM
The answer: lolyes. Magic Domain allows you to use wands, scrolls, staffs and the like as a wizard half your level. While this doesn't seem fantastic, most of the utility spells you need are relatively low level anyway. So Knock, detect secret doors, etc can be item based.

Domains are awesome :D

Wings of Peace
2010-11-12, 01:18 PM
Lolyes, take 4 levels in Prestige Paladin and then take the feats: Academic Priest and Sword of the Arcane Order. Archivist works better though in theory though, Archivist with that combo results in you only being unable to learn Bard Spells.

Master_Rahl22
2010-11-12, 01:27 PM
There is the Divine Bard in UA I think. For those whose Google-Fu is lacking, Prestige Paladin is in the SRD, Academic Priest appears to be from Dragonlance, and Sword of the Arcane Order is from Champions of Valor.

FMArthur
2010-11-12, 02:01 PM
Dragonlance material is 3rd party, kind of obscure, and super hard to find. How does it keep coming up in build advice so much? :smalleek:

Psyren
2010-11-12, 02:06 PM
Lolyes, take 4 levels in Prestige Paladin and then take the feats: Academic Priest and Sword of the Arcane Order. Archivist works better though in theory though, Archivist with that combo results in you only being unable to learn Bard Spells.

Archivist can learn bard spells through Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) . It only adds spells to (rather than removes from) their list.


Dragonlance material is 3rd party, kind of obscure, and super hard to find. How does it keep coming up in build advice so much? :smalleek:

Because 3rd Party is still > homebrew in the hierarchy, and there are no official feats that duplicate what Academic/Dynamic Priest do.

Eldariel
2010-11-12, 04:53 PM
Honestly, even standard Cleric is a fine caster, if underrated. Sure, PHB only leaves you with a shallow, but potent spell list; yet, it tends to contain much of what you need and Domains cover the holes. With Spell Compendium, Cleric has everything you need in class. There are gems like Silence and Darkbolt on Cleric list, and the ever-lovely Holy Word-line along with Antilife Shell and what-have-you. Yeah, Clerics can get the job done, alright.

But no, there are no comprehensive guides on how to actually do that. I've made an assessment of the Core Cleric Spells with a caster Cleric in mind, but of course it gives up much of the expanded potential from Spell Compendium and other sources. Still, if you're interested:

Offense:
Level 1
Cause Fear: Nice Will Save-or-Lose as long as the HD limit isn't a problem; unfortunately single-target. Close range.
Command: Nice Will Save-or-Suck. Again, though, single-target. Close range.

Level 2
Hold Person: Humanoid SoL. Handy. Medium range.
Shatter: Destroy weapons, armor, etc. Nice combination with Dispels and such. Close range.
Silence: Caster Will SoL, or no-save effect if you have some control effects to prevent opponent from leaving the covered area. Also, nice readied action to screw spellcasting. Long range (!!) multi-target.
Sound Burst: Meh damage, with Fort-or-Stun. If you have someone to CDG the stunned guy, it's alright. The damage isn't the reason to pick it. Close range multi-target.
Spiritual Weapon: It's a decent damage spell, especially since Cleric BAB is pretty good; it'll keep attacking for effectively the entire combat and it takes only a move action to redirect.

Level 3
Bestow Curse: Will SoS. Clerics have lots of these. Good for debuffing Planar Bound creatures or such. Touch range.
Blindness/Deafness: Blindness is an excellent debuff. Fort SoS basically. Medium range.
Dispel Magic: Magic is very powerful, so ability to stop magic is absolutely incredible. Disable Fighter's gear, remove buffbots buffs, save your allies from variety of SoLs, infinitely powerful. Medium range multi-target.
Invisibility Purge: Well, not really offense, but still. 5'/level range.
Searing Light: Deals crap damage to living or slightly less crap damage to undead. Yuck. Medium range ray.

Level 4
Dimensional Anchor: Well, only way you'll ever kill those outsiders. Medium range.
Dismissal: Basically amounts to a limited Will SoD. Close range. It's nice 'cause you can make it notably harder than normal spell of yours to resist by using stuff the target hates with the spell.
Poison: Fort Save-or-BeHurtBad. Meh. Touch range. Yuck.

Level 5
Greater Command: Multitarget Command that lasts until they make a save. Pretty useful, if high level. Close range, 30' between victims, mind-affecting.
Plane Shift: Everyone knows of the spells transportation capabilities, but as long as your target cannot Plane Shift, sending someone to say...Positive Energy Plane is a very good way of killing people. Basically a Will SoD with Touch Range.
Slay Living: Fort SoD with some consolation damage. Touch.
Symbol of Pain: Symbols are fun. Paint a bunch of 'em on some item, reveal it and watch opposition roll saves. Rubber balls are pretty nice, for example. Your armor is a good place too. This one is practically a SoS.
Symbol of Sleep: See above. Nice little slumberparty here. Though Mind-Affecting begins to be a problem on these levels.

Level 6
Banishment: Like Dismissal, except stronger.
Blade Barrier: Meh, it's a solid battlefield morphing ability that's also Ref-or-Take-Some-Damage. Not bad. Medium range.
Greater Dispel Magic: See Dispel Magic.
Harm: Fort or Take Damage. Meh. Fine for e.g. channeling tho. Touch.
Symbol of Fear: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Symbol of Persuasion: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Undeath to Death: Great for killing undead. Medium range 40' bunch.

Level 7
Blasphemy/Dictum/Holy Word/Word of Chaos: Boost your caster level and world will tremble. No-save death or at least be screwed depending on your CL. Only SR can save people here (and with your buffed CL, rarely).
Destruction: Fort SoD. Close range. Nice 10d6 consolation damage.
Dimensional Lock: Like Dimensional Anchor, except gotta somehow restrict opponent's movement, but it offers no save.
Symbol of Stunning: See Symbol of Pain, SoL version.
Symbol of Weakness: See Symbol of Pain, SoS version (most characters can't carry their stuff after that Fort-damage).

Level 8
Earthquake: A rather versatile offense spell that can be used to lock down opponents or such depending on terrain. Damage isn't impressive but the conditions it can impose, often without save, are. Also nicely stops activity while it's going. If DM says the save stops the Pinned-condition too, it becomes much worse.
Fire Storm: Deals a bunch of damage. Meh.
Symbol of Death: See Symbol of Pain, SoD version.
Symbol of Insanity: See Symbol of Pain, Will SoD version. Meh at mind-affecting.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Implosion: Boom Boom. Kinda expensive, but at least it can kill multiple folks.
Field Alteration + Ally Generation:
Level 1
Obscuring Mist: Nice way to stop annoying targeted spells, archery and such. Gives melee full miss chance thoo. Limits yourself too tho. Personal range.
Summon Monster I: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 2
Darkness: Older version of Darkness. Touch range, can toss the object or such.
Summon Monster II: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 3
Animate Dead: Material components are kinda meh. Eternally usable and faithful underlings are pretty handy though, if you can afford them.
Daylight: Mostly when dealing with Underdark races, Undead and such. Touch like Darkness.
Deeper Darkness: Sorta like Darkness. Unfortunately, it's not as Dark as it should be. Fogs >>> Darkness. Touch like Darkness.
Stone Shape: I don't honestly need to state in how many ways morphing stone can be useful, do I? Touch.
Summon Monster III: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wind Wall: Pretty nice especially in larger conflicts where large squads of archers are a concern. There are pretty few ways archers can by RAW shoot through this, though you could argue that big enough bows and force projectiles would.

Level 4
Control Water: Very nice when water is available for drowning places, killing waterbreathing creatures in shallow waters and such. Just, useful. Long range.
Giant Vermin: You shouldn't really bother with anything less than Gargantuans, but with CL buffs those are available pretty quickly and particularly Colossal Scorpion is very efficient even against CR 20 challenges as long as the area is thus that they cannot just fly away (you can help with that); they have very high Attack-stats and the poisons are extremely potent.
Lesser Planar Ally: Solid allies, even if it's expensive to call. Try to call 'em when it falls under the "strongly ties to creature's ethos"; that's free and the XP cost isn't really that major. And Outsiders are pretty darn good allies.
Summon Monster IV: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 5
Insect Plague: Swarms are hardy, but unfortunately not very damaging at this point anymore. The Distraction-function is handy, but beyond that it's not very good. Long range tho.
Summon Monster V: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wall of Stone: One of Wizard's best battlefield control spells is no worse for Cleric. Isolate enemies, buy time, block entries, make death prisons, whatever. Reflex if used to encase people. Medium range.

Level 6
Animate Object: Unfortunately Animated Objects have horrible BAB and such so they don't hit much. The special attacks are somewhat usable tho. Generally best with Permanency. Medium range.
Antilife Shell: A very strong defensive buff, here because you can morph the battlefield with it. Living creatures simply can't approach the area around you. NO SAVE! 10' radius.
Create Undead: Some of the undead are very useful. This is an expensive spell, but as the undead can multiply, provided it's not against your alignment, this can be very very handy.
Planar Ally: See Lesser Planar Ally.
Summon Monster VI: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 7
Control Weather: Slow to cast, but great for demolishing armies, cities and such. Not quite as strong as the 5th level Druid-spell Control Winds, but much more versatile.
Repulsion: Like Antilife Shell vs. anything, but with Will-save to negate. I don't like it nearly as much.
Summon Monster VII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 8
Antimagic Field: Magic's good, all that jazz. Also, Initiate of Mystra makes this the most one-sided, unfair spell ever. 10' radius (suggest Widening; see Rules Compendium for relevant stuff regarding rules on this, it always confuses people).
Create Greater Undead: See Create Undead.
Summon Monster VIII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Summon Monster IX: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Defense + Buff:
Level 1
Bless: Not amazing, but every bonus is a bonus. The more characters, the better.
Endure Elements: Eh, obvious utility.
Magic Stone: Handy buff for Sling-users. Note that sling is a solid ranged level 1 weapon for high Str types, being quite light, almost free and adding Str to damage.
Magic Weapon: Handy buff for anyone. If a bit small.
Protection from Alignment: Great buff, stops all mind control in addition to solid Deflection/Resistance.
Sanctuary: Obvious utility, you aren't attacking anyways, so... Also can be used to protect another, who's about to go down.
Shield of Faith: Touch-spell that grants nice Deflection-bonus to AC.

Level 2
Aid: Mostly just Bless with few additional Temp HP. Pretty weak beyond the first levels.
Align Weapon: Occasionally absolutely crucial with early opponents packing some pesky DRs.
Bull's Strength & al.: Handy early on.
Resist Energy: Great vs. casters and energy-based creatures and just environment.

Level 3
Magic Circle against Alignment: Like Protection, except area-of-effect and stops summoned creatures and such. Handy. 10' area.
Magic Vestment: One of the best buffs in the game, allows you to, especially in conjuction with Animated Shields and such, give everyone decent AC. Use with caster level boosters for early +5s all day.
Meld into Stone: Fine "Invisibility"-substitute that's not trumped by most spells. It's hard to detect your presence without heavy magical scanning.
Prayer: Short-duration Bless (with Luck-bonus tho) and a penalty to enemies. Meh.
Protection from Energy: Like Resist Energy except complete immunity to certain threshold. I prefer Resist Energy though sometimes, when taking huge blazing balls of fire, this is better.
Water Breathing: Too obvious.
Water Walk: Yeah.

Level 4
Air Walk: Obvious. Notably, you still walk so stuff depending on jumping and such should work normally. Nice duration, though not 1h/level. Touch.
Imbue with Spell Ability: Divine Favor is a nice one, for example. Personal spells in general.
Greater Magic Weapon: Like Magic Vestment, except for weapons. The nice part is that Clerics can buff their CL like crazy so you'll have +5s in the mid-teens. Close range.
Spell Immunity: Stuff such as Enervation and such is very solid to protect people from. Touch.

Level 5
Disrupting Weapon: Kills undead. Handy in Undead-heavy scenarios. With iteratives, it amounts to a whole ton of SoDs vs. Undead. Touch-range.
Spell Resistance: 12+CL is a nice amount, without cap, especially for a Cleric. It's Touch so it can be used to ward the entire party and it's nice 10 min/level (if it only were 1 hour/level...).
True Seeing: Too obvious.

Level 6
Mass Bull's Strength & al.: When you have hordes of servants/underlings/whatever, these can be worthwhile. Party will just buy gear.
Heroes' Feast: Extend it for 24-hour Fear-immunity and Morale-bonus to Hit and Will-saves. One is enough to feed the entire party and then some. Should be staple once you get it given the DCs of the fear auras some creatures have.
Wind Walk: Kinda like your version of Teleport. Nice travel-spell if actual Teleportation is not available.
Word of Recall: Solid replication of one function of Teleportation. Nice overall.

Level 7
Ethereal Jaunt: Decent escape spell tho only 1 round/level and Personal.
Refuge: Nice "Oh ****"-Contingency to give to e.g. party Rogue or someone else bound to get into trouble alone.

Level 8
Cloak of Chaos/Holy Aura/Shield of Law/Unholy Aura: Decent defensive alignment-buffs, though they unfortunately don't stack with common protective items. There's still the "successful attack requires will-save vs. Confusion" and multi-targeting going on for it tho. Again, very solid if you have unequipped underlings.
Greater Spell Immunity: Good for the same reason Spell Immunity is good.

Level 9
Astral Projection: You pay some for effective immortality, especially combined with Plane Shift. Basically, you create a clone of yourself, for which dying doesn't make any difference. It's great how Plane Shift is a level 5 spell for Clerics. Multitarget.
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Etherealness: Handy for bypassing places and spying on things and killing ethereal issues and so on. And for staying out. I don't like spending level 9 slots on this tho.

Bayar
2010-11-12, 05:16 PM
Dragonlance material is 3rd party, kind of obscure, and super hard to find. How does it keep coming up in build advice so much? :smalleek:

Actually, it was licensed by WotC. Even though the licensing agreement expired in 2007, I don't see how it makes it third party.

GoatBoy
2010-11-12, 06:57 PM
A Batman cleric? What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something?

(Just kidding. 50XP if you get the reference.)

hamishspence
2010-11-12, 07:00 PM
Actually, it was licensed by WotC. Even though the licensing agreement expired in 2007, I don't see how it makes it third party.

Because it wasn't WoTC actually writing those books?

The first book, (Dragonlance Campaign Setting) was written by WoTC though.

Psyren
2010-11-12, 07:05 PM
Actually, it was licensed by WotC. Even though the licensing agreement expired in 2007, I don't see how it makes it third party.

I was mistaken on this point too. The license isn't actually what matters here, it's who published it.

Dragonlance books are licensed by WotC, but (with the exception of the campaign setting itself) were not published by them (they were published by Sovereign IIRC.) Similarly, Dragon Compendium was licensed by WotC but published by Paizo, making it 3rd-Party.

They are official 3rd-party, true, but still 3rd-party. (Officialy licensed anyway.)

HunterOfJello
2010-11-12, 07:22 PM
Cloistered cleric for a nice bump in skill points, Bardic Knowledge and the Knowledge Domain. Throw in Magic Domain and maybe Trickery Domain and you're definitely batman-ish.

Rainbow Servant
2010-11-12, 09:38 PM
Mix one part Cloistered cleric with one part Contemplative (PrC) and a dash of Domain Spontaneity (feat). Sprinkle with DMM cheese to taste. :smallbiggrin:

You'll have the Knowledge domain plus four others, and the ability to swap prepared spells for domain spells, getting past that pesky 1 domain spell/level limit.

Good domains for batmanning: Magic and Spell (Forgotten Realms, I think - Anyspell is pretty good for versatility). I always liked Trickery, too. There's a few other good ones: Travel for fly or Celerity for haste, and so on.

I almost forgot! Divine Oracle grants the Oracle (duh) domain, which really helps with the whole crazy prepared aspect.

Private-Prinny
2010-11-12, 11:49 PM
Lolyes, take 4 levels in Prestige Paladin and then take the feats: Academic Priest and Sword of the Arcane Order. Archivist works better though in theory though, Archivist with that combo results in you only being unable to learn Bard Spells.

Sword of the Arcane Order doesn't work that way. You would be able to take the feat, due to having 4 levels in Paladin, but you gain no benefit since you don't actually have Paladin spell slots. It promotes your Cleric casting instead.

Godless_Paladin
2010-11-13, 07:56 AM
A Batman cleric? What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something?

(Just kidding. 50XP if you get the reference.)

"What are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the Goddamn Batman."
— Batman, to the child he just abducted.


Cloistered cleric for a nice bump in skill points, Bardic Knowledge and the Knowledge Domain. Throw in Magic Domain and maybe Trickery Domain and you're definitely batman-ish.

Heck, I go Cloistered Cleric even when I want to do a straight up melee cleric. I'll take free Knowledge Devotion (not to mention skill points and bardic knowledge) over an extra point of BAB any day.


Honestly, even standard Cleric is a fine caster, if underrated. Sure, PHB only leaves you with a shallow, but potent spell list; yet, it tends to contain much of what you need and Domains cover the holes. With Spell Compendium, Cleric has everything you need in class. There are gems like Silence and Darkbolt on Cleric list, and the ever-lovely Holy Word-line along with Antilife Shell and what-have-you. Yeah, Clerics can get the job done, alright.

But no, there are no comprehensive guides on how to actually do that. I've made an assessment of the Core Cleric Spells with a caster Cleric in mind, but of course it gives up much of the expanded potential from Spell Compendium and other sources. Still, if you're interested:

Offense:
Level 1
Cause Fear: Nice Will Save-or-Lose as long as the HD limit isn't a problem; unfortunately single-target. Close range.
Command: Nice Will Save-or-Suck. Again, though, single-target. Close range.

Level 2
Hold Person: Humanoid SoL. Handy. Medium range.
Shatter: Destroy weapons, armor, etc. Nice combination with Dispels and such. Close range.
Silence: Caster Will SoL, or no-save effect if you have some control effects to prevent opponent from leaving the covered area. Also, nice readied action to screw spellcasting. Long range (!!) multi-target.
Sound Burst: Meh damage, with Fort-or-Stun. If you have someone to CDG the stunned guy, it's alright. The damage isn't the reason to pick it. Close range multi-target.
Spiritual Weapon: It's a decent damage spell, especially since Cleric BAB is pretty good; it'll keep attacking for effectively the entire combat and it takes only a move action to redirect.

Level 3
Bestow Curse: Will SoS. Clerics have lots of these. Good for debuffing Planar Bound creatures or such. Touch range.
Blindness/Deafness: Blindness is an excellent debuff. Fort SoS basically. Medium range.
Dispel Magic: Magic is very powerful, so ability to stop magic is absolutely incredible. Disable Fighter's gear, remove buffbots buffs, save your allies from variety of SoLs, infinitely powerful. Medium range multi-target.
Invisibility Purge: Well, not really offense, but still. 5'/level range.
Searing Light: Deals crap damage to living or slightly less crap damage to undead. Yuck. Medium range ray.

Level 4
Dimensional Anchor: Well, only way you'll ever kill those outsiders. Medium range.
Dismissal: Basically amounts to a limited Will SoD. Close range. It's nice 'cause you can make it notably harder than normal spell of yours to resist by using stuff the target hates with the spell.
Poison: Fort Save-or-BeHurtBad. Meh. Touch range. Yuck.

Level 5
Greater Command: Multitarget Command that lasts until they make a save. Pretty useful, if high level. Close range, 30' between victims, mind-affecting.
Plane Shift: Everyone knows of the spells transportation capabilities, but as long as your target cannot Plane Shift, sending someone to say...Positive Energy Plane is a very good way of killing people. Basically a Will SoD with Touch Range.
Slay Living: Fort SoD with some consolation damage. Touch.
Symbol of Pain: Symbols are fun. Paint a bunch of 'em on some item, reveal it and watch opposition roll saves. Rubber balls are pretty nice, for example. Your armor is a good place too. This one is practically a SoS.
Symbol of Sleep: See above. Nice little slumberparty here. Though Mind-Affecting begins to be a problem on these levels.

Level 6
Banishment: Like Dismissal, except stronger.
Blade Barrier: Meh, it's a solid battlefield morphing ability that's also Ref-or-Take-Some-Damage. Not bad. Medium range.
Greater Dispel Magic: See Dispel Magic.
Harm: Fort or Take Damage. Meh. Fine for e.g. channeling tho. Touch.
Symbol of Fear: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Symbol of Persuasion: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Undeath to Death: Great for killing undead. Medium range 40' bunch.

Level 7
Blasphemy/Dictum/Holy Word/Word of Chaos: Boost your caster level and world will tremble. No-save death or at least be screwed depending on your CL. Only SR can save people here (and with your buffed CL, rarely).
Destruction: Fort SoD. Close range. Nice 10d6 consolation damage.
Dimensional Lock: Like Dimensional Anchor, except gotta somehow restrict opponent's movement, but it offers no save.
Symbol of Stunning: See Symbol of Pain, SoL version.
Symbol of Weakness: See Symbol of Pain, SoS version (most characters can't carry their stuff after that Fort-damage).

Level 8
Earthquake: A rather versatile offense spell that can be used to lock down opponents or such depending on terrain. Damage isn't impressive but the conditions it can impose, often without save, are. Also nicely stops activity while it's going. If DM says the save stops the Pinned-condition too, it becomes much worse.
Fire Storm: Deals a bunch of damage. Meh.
Symbol of Death: See Symbol of Pain, SoD version.
Symbol of Insanity: See Symbol of Pain, Will SoD version. Meh at mind-affecting.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Implosion: Boom Boom. Kinda expensive, but at least it can kill multiple folks.
Field Alteration + Ally Generation:
Level 1
Obscuring Mist: Nice way to stop annoying targeted spells, archery and such. Gives melee full miss chance thoo. Limits yourself too tho. Personal range.
Summon Monster I: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 2
Darkness: Older version of Darkness. Touch range, can toss the object or such.
Summon Monster II: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 3
Animate Dead: Material components are kinda meh. Eternally usable and faithful underlings are pretty handy though, if you can afford them.
Daylight: Mostly when dealing with Underdark races, Undead and such. Touch like Darkness.
Deeper Darkness: Sorta like Darkness. Unfortunately, it's not as Dark as it should be. Fogs >>> Darkness. Touch like Darkness.
Stone Shape: I don't honestly need to state in how many ways morphing stone can be useful, do I? Touch.
Summon Monster III: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wind Wall: Pretty nice especially in larger conflicts where large squads of archers are a concern. There are pretty few ways archers can by RAW shoot through this, though you could argue that big enough bows and force projectiles would.

Level 4
Control Water: Very nice when water is available for drowning places, killing waterbreathing creatures in shallow waters and such. Just, useful. Long range.
Giant Vermin: You shouldn't really bother with anything less than Gargantuans, but with CL buffs those are available pretty quickly and particularly Colossal Scorpion is very efficient even against CR 20 challenges as long as the area is thus that they cannot just fly away (you can help with that); they have very high Attack-stats and the poisons are extremely potent.
Lesser Planar Ally: Solid allies, even if it's expensive to call. Try to call 'em when it falls under the "strongly ties to creature's ethos"; that's free and the XP cost isn't really that major. And Outsiders are pretty darn good allies.
Summon Monster IV: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 5
Insect Plague: Swarms are hardy, but unfortunately not very damaging at this point anymore. The Distraction-function is handy, but beyond that it's not very good. Long range tho.
Summon Monster V: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wall of Stone: One of Wizard's best battlefield control spells is no worse for Cleric. Isolate enemies, buy time, block entries, make death prisons, whatever. Reflex if used to encase people. Medium range.

Level 6
Animate Object: Unfortunately Animated Objects have horrible BAB and such so they don't hit much. The special attacks are somewhat usable tho. Generally best with Permanency. Medium range.
Antilife Shell: A very strong defensive buff, here because you can morph the battlefield with it. Living creatures simply can't approach the area around you. NO SAVE! 10' radius.
Create Undead: Some of the undead are very useful. This is an expensive spell, but as the undead can multiply, provided it's not against your alignment, this can be very very handy.
Planar Ally: See Lesser Planar Ally.
Summon Monster VI: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 7
Control Weather: Slow to cast, but great for demolishing armies, cities and such. Not quite as strong as the 5th level Druid-spell Control Winds, but much more versatile.
Repulsion: Like Antilife Shell vs. anything, but with Will-save to negate. I don't like it nearly as much.
Summon Monster VII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 8
Antimagic Field: Magic's good, all that jazz. Also, Initiate of Mystra makes this the most one-sided, unfair spell ever. 10' radius (suggest Widening; see Rules Compendium for relevant stuff regarding rules on this, it always confuses people).
Create Greater Undead: See Create Undead.
Summon Monster VIII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Summon Monster IX: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Defense + Buff:
Level 1
Bless: Not amazing, but every bonus is a bonus. The more characters, the better.
Endure Elements: Eh, obvious utility.
Magic Stone: Handy buff for Sling-users. Note that sling is a solid ranged level 1 weapon for high Str types, being quite light, almost free and adding Str to damage.
Magic Weapon: Handy buff for anyone. If a bit small.
Protection from Alignment: Great buff, stops all mind control in addition to solid Deflection/Resistance.
Sanctuary: Obvious utility, you aren't attacking anyways, so... Also can be used to protect another, who's about to go down.
Shield of Faith: Touch-spell that grants nice Deflection-bonus to AC.

Level 2
Aid: Mostly just Bless with few additional Temp HP. Pretty weak beyond the first levels.
Align Weapon: Occasionally absolutely crucial with early opponents packing some pesky DRs.
Bull's Strength & al.: Handy early on.
Resist Energy: Great vs. casters and energy-based creatures and just environment.

Level 3
Magic Circle against Alignment: Like Protection, except area-of-effect and stops summoned creatures and such. Handy. 10' area.
Magic Vestment: One of the best buffs in the game, allows you to, especially in conjuction with Animated Shields and such, give everyone decent AC. Use with caster level boosters for early +5s all day.
Meld into Stone: Fine "Invisibility"-substitute that's not trumped by most spells. It's hard to detect your presence without heavy magical scanning.
Prayer: Short-duration Bless (with Luck-bonus tho) and a penalty to enemies. Meh.
Protection from Energy: Like Resist Energy except complete immunity to certain threshold. I prefer Resist Energy though sometimes, when taking huge blazing balls of fire, this is better.
Water Breathing: Too obvious.
Water Walk: Yeah.

Level 4
Air Walk: Obvious. Notably, you still walk so stuff depending on jumping and such should work normally. Nice duration, though not 1h/level. Touch.
Imbue with Spell Ability: Divine Favor is a nice one, for example. Personal spells in general.
Greater Magic Weapon: Like Magic Vestment, except for weapons. The nice part is that Clerics can buff their CL like crazy so you'll have +5s in the mid-teens. Close range.
Spell Immunity: Stuff such as Enervation and such is very solid to protect people from. Touch.

Level 5
Disrupting Weapon: Kills undead. Handy in Undead-heavy scenarios. With iteratives, it amounts to a whole ton of SoDs vs. Undead. Touch-range.
Spell Resistance: 12+CL is a nice amount, without cap, especially for a Cleric. It's Touch so it can be used to ward the entire party and it's nice 10 min/level (if it only were 1 hour/level...).
True Seeing: Too obvious.

Level 6
Mass Bull's Strength & al.: When you have hordes of servants/underlings/whatever, these can be worthwhile. Party will just buy gear.
Heroes' Feast: Extend it for 24-hour Fear-immunity and Morale-bonus to Hit and Will-saves. One is enough to feed the entire party and then some. Should be staple once you get it given the DCs of the fear auras some creatures have.
Wind Walk: Kinda like your version of Teleport. Nice travel-spell if actual Teleportation is not available.
Word of Recall: Solid replication of one function of Teleportation. Nice overall.

Level 7
Ethereal Jaunt: Decent escape spell tho only 1 round/level and Personal.
Refuge: Nice "Oh ****"-Contingency to give to e.g. party Rogue or someone else bound to get into trouble alone.

Level 8
Cloak of Chaos/Holy Aura/Shield of Law/Unholy Aura: Decent defensive alignment-buffs, though they unfortunately don't stack with common protective items. There's still the "successful attack requires will-save vs. Confusion" and multi-targeting going on for it tho. Again, very solid if you have unequipped underlings.
Greater Spell Immunity: Good for the same reason Spell Immunity is good.

Level 9
Astral Projection: You pay some for effective immortality, especially combined with Plane Shift. Basically, you create a clone of yourself, for which dying doesn't make any difference. It's great how Plane Shift is a level 5 spell for Clerics. Multitarget.
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Etherealness: Handy for bypassing places and spying on things and killing ethereal issues and so on. And for staying out. I don't like spending level 9 slots on this tho.

Pffft, core only.

Why just be Batman when you can pretend to be a little Superman too? Leap onto rooftops in a single bound with Updraft (level 1 spell, SpC). Stun everyone and do some damage too with Frost Breath (level 2 spell, SpC). And so forth. Heck, with Strength Devotion you even get natural attacks that hit as hard as a greatsword.

There's also some quite versatile spells outside of core, available right at low level. Divine Insight (also from the Spell Compendium) just outright gives you 5+caster level bonus to whatever skill you want as an immediate action. How's that for a utility belt piece?


Okay, the answer to this is probably "lolyes", but I'm not finding anything on exactly how. Are there any guides for Batman Clerics like there are for Batman Wizards? If not, exactly how do you go about being a Batman Cleric?

Define "Batman Cleric." Last I checked, Batman was just "what Logic Ninja called wizards." Just like CoDzilla was RadicalTaoist referring to "any cleric or druid" (though, in context, a core cleric or druid).

Eldariel
2010-11-13, 09:59 AM
Pffft, core only.

Why just be Batman when you can pretend to be a little Superman too? Leap onto rooftops in a single bound with Updraft (level 1 spell, SpC). Stun everyone and do some damage too with Frost Breath (level 2 spell, SpC). And so forth. Heck, with Strength Devotion you even get natural attacks that hit as hard as a greatsword.

There's also some quite versatile spells outside of core, available right at low level. Divine Insight (also from the Spell Compendium) just outright gives you 5+caster level bonus to whatever skill you want as an immediate action. How's that for a utility belt piece?

Oh, certainly; SC in particular is a treasure trove for expanding Cleric's options for dealing with various situations. Thing is, I have never written a comprehensive analysis of Spell Compendium Cleric spells so I can't post on there :smalltongue: Though the Cleric Handbook helps some.

ericgrau
2010-11-13, 10:01 AM
Dragonlance material is 3rd party, kind of obscure, and super hard to find. How does it keep coming up in build advice so much? :smalleek:

If it has any smell of cheese, the char oppers will sniff it out, find it and post it for all posterity to see. Especially if it's obscure.

Valameer
2010-11-13, 10:32 AM
Yeah, Batman Cleric is as far away as the Magic Domain, plus one other domain of your choosing. Pick up scribe scroll or craft wand and you'll always have the right tool for the job.

The *real* Batman is probably an artificer though. With levels in badass.

...and the leadership feat, unfortunately.

flabort
2010-11-13, 12:15 PM
What must be asked is can:
A batman Druid be done?
A Batman Bard be done?
A batman paladin be done?
A batman dread necromancer be done?
A batman factotum be done?

Psyren
2010-11-13, 12:26 PM
batman factotum

Redundant redundancy is redundant

Jack_Simth
2010-11-13, 12:53 PM
What must be asked is can:
A batman Druid be done?Fairly readily. Druid's are Tier-1 already.
A Batman Bard be done?Yes, but takes some work, and PrC's (Sublime Chord, Mage of the Arcane Order) help a lot.
A batman paladin be done?Very, very difficult, but yes.
A batman dread necromancer be done?About as difficult as the Bard... although it does depend on a few interpertations.
A batman factotum be done?Err... Factotum's are pretty much Batman out of the box.... if a little weaker.

flabort
2010-11-13, 11:01 PM
Factotum was a joke, guys, just something to round it out to five. :smalltongue:

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-13, 11:14 PM
Technically a cleric is in some ways better then being batman then a wizard. While a wizard generally has a more versatile spell list you forget that a cleric does not need to learn his spells. He automatically has access to them all. So while potentially a wizard is batman he needs to have a generous DM who has magic marts in every town to be batman while a cleric can already be somewhat batman-like(Though not anywhere near a wizard with a generous DM) thing without a generous DM. So, while under ideal conditions a wizard is far more of a batman type and far better then a cleric at being batman not every game will be the wizard's ideal situation. Thus the cleric can be better prepared then a wizard since the wizard needs scrolls, spellbooks and magic marts to be batman while all a cleric needs is enough time to prepare spells and rest.

However, if you REALLY want to be batman then be a wizard/archivist theurge. You literally have the potential to learn EVERY spell in the game with that combination....but again, to do that you will need scrolls/magic marts.

Susano-wo
2010-11-13, 11:29 PM
Define "Batman Cleric." Last I checked, Batman was just "what Logic Ninja called wizards." Just like CoDzilla was RadicalTaoist referring to "any cleric or druid" (though, in context, a core cleric or druid).

My understanding is that the Batman wizard is a wizard that always has the right spell in his 'utility belt.' So a Batman cleric would have the tools to solve any dilemma with his spells/scrolls (or as close to that as possible)

Psyren
2010-11-13, 11:53 PM
Factotum was a joke, guys, just something to round it out to five. :smalltongue:

You should probably be aware that the rimshot doesn't carry over to our browsers very well :smalltongue:


My understanding is that the Batman wizard is a wizard that always has the right spell in his 'utility belt.' So a Batman cleric would have the tools to solve any dilemma with his spells/scrolls (or as close to that as possible)

For most dilemmas a Cleric only needs one (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/miracle.htm)

(Sure it shows up late, but that's a swiss army knife if I ever saw one)

Tvtyrant
2010-11-13, 11:58 PM
The real question is can you make a fighter batman without multi-classing or homebrewing. If you can do that you win the forum.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-14, 12:02 AM
I have an easy way to do just that. Pump your charisma really high, take the leadership feat. Make your cohort a wizard. Provide him with the proper gear. Congradulations, your now a batman fighter...(Sorta..more like a fighter who has batman as his minion.)

Jack_Simth
2010-11-14, 12:10 AM
However, if you REALLY want to be batman then be a wizard/archivist theurge. You literally have the potential to learn EVERY spell in the game with that combination....but again, to do that you will need scrolls/magic marts.Well... unless you cotton to the collaboration trick (in which case, you can do that as a pure Archivist), there will still be a few obscure arcane spells you can't get (Bard-only spells, for instance, are out of reach... so Sympathetic Vibrations, Song of Discord, Modify Memory, Glibness, and Good Hope are not accessible).

Bayar
2010-11-14, 04:56 AM
What must be asked is can:
A batman Druid be done?
A Batman Bard be done?
A batman paladin be done?
A batman dread necromancer be done?
A batman factotum be done?

You forgot Batman Artificer :tongue:

FMArthur
2010-11-14, 09:03 AM
Technically a cleric is in some ways better then being batman then a wizard. While a wizard generally has a more versatile spell list you forget that a cleric does not need to learn his spells. He automatically has access to them all. So while potentially a wizard is batman he needs to have a generous DM who has magic marts in every town to be batman while a cleric can already be somewhat batman-like(Though not anywhere near a wizard with a generous DM) thing without a generous DM. So, while under ideal conditions a wizard is far more of a batman type and far better then a cleric at being batman not every game will be the wizard's ideal situation. Thus the cleric can be better prepared then a wizard since the wizard needs scrolls, spellbooks and magic marts to be batman while all a cleric needs is enough time to prepare spells and rest.

However, if you REALLY want to be batman then be a wizard/archivist theurge. You literally have the potential to learn EVERY spell in the game with that combination....but again, to do that you will need scrolls/magic marts.

A Wizard can take a feat called Collegiate Wizard to solve his spell availability problem if he doesn't have a "generous" DM who uses the game's actual treasure tables and follows the DMG to determine item availability in towns.