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View Full Version : [Naruto d20] What's the appeal?



Toptomcat
2010-11-12, 11:33 PM
I'm a big fan of d20. I'm a fan of Naruto, and I think it makes a fun PnP game setting. But I just cannot appreciate Naruto d20. It is over a thousand pages long, and at that not even a complete system but a massive, unruly d20 Modern supplement. It is not in the least elegant or mechanically sound, or even terribly well-edited- the whole thing is, mechanically speaking, a train wreck. Mutants and Masterminds is very much better-suited to doing Naruto, and you can even do it fairly well in D&D- there's a pretty superb thread floating around on the old Wizards boards and revived on BrilliantGameologists that statted a lot of Naruto characters up with psionics.

Yet I see a small but devoted fanbase who continue to run games in that system- far more than choose to try and run Naruto in other, more well-suited systems- and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. What's the appeal?

Susano-wo
2010-11-13, 01:42 AM
I would guess that its the familiarity of D20 with wanting to be super awesome Shinobi. Though I've never seen the system, so I am taking your word for its cumbersomness.

(though it seems that I've seen a lot of fan-made [property] conversions that were enacted without elegance..or sometimes seemingly without a clear goal in mind.
I particularly remember an older BESM Final Fantasy adaptaion. It felt like the creators just threw some stuff out there that seemed final fantasyish, and left it at that.:smallsigh:)

Toptomcat
2010-11-13, 02:03 AM
As I pointed out, though, there are multiple better alternatives available even within d20.

Otherworld Odd
2010-11-13, 02:22 AM
The only answer I can think of is that perhaps they don't know there are other systems that could do a Naruto-game quite well. Mutants and Masterminds is in fact called Mutants and Masterminds and not Naruto D20 so how would they know it's better without someone telling them or knowing how the system works. Maybe it just takes some informing to the individuals who prefer Naruto D20.


[Note, there are people out there that aren't familiar with Mutants and Masterminds and others, such as myself, so "Everyone knows about (Insert game here) isn't a logical answer.]

Susano-wo
2010-11-13, 02:38 AM
As I pointed out, though, there are multiple better alternatives available even within d20.

oh...:smallredface:so you did. I missed that..:smallsigh:

Then I have no idea...

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-13, 03:12 PM
I play both Naruto D20 AND M&M and while I know M&M can modle Naruto effectively it's not as accurate as Naruto D20 is. Naruto D20 is flawed, yes, but it FEELS like Naruto. mutants and masterminds feels NOTHING like Naruto. The main reason being that your powers are all handed to you and use no form of "chakra." As far as I remember, In Mutants and Masterminds your powers can be spammed ad nasuiam. While some ninja in Naruto Shippuden have done that due to Kishi being Kishi, themeaticly it just dose not feel right. A naruto ninja should have some kind of chakra/mana/whatever. Muntants and Masterminds lacks that.

The other thing Mutants and Masterminds lacks is the "learning" aspect of Naruto. In M&M you start off with all your powers. As you fight on you hardly ever learn any new powers. Heck, in some games you don't even get enough power points to make exsisting ones that much stronger. So, while M&M can simulate a naruto character well, you feel like just that, a simulation of a naruto ninja. you can't learn new jutsu, lack chakra and are more or less high tier from the start of the game. Meanwhile D20 Naruto, despite it's clunkyness has chakra, allows you to learn more techniques and overall gives you the feeling of actually being a Naruto ninja rather then a simulation of one.

As for D&D, I do like the idea of psyonics replacing Jutsu. It's an interesting idea and themeaticly it works well. You still have "chakra" in the form of those points and you still have the "learning" aspect too. However, despite this, some things cannot be replicated via psionic D&D, mainly bloodline traits. You COULD always just make templates for those, but then thats really homebrew.

In the end, it's not the fact the rules are elegant or even good that make Naruto D20 appealing but rather the fact the rules, out of all the systems, FEEL the most like Naruto. As far as winning both crunch and flavor wise gose I believe just plain old D&D, using psionics and homebrew templates/bloodlines is the best option both fluff and crunch wise while M&M is the worst of the three for the reasons mentioned above.

(Also, on no spellcheck computer, so please forgive bad gramer and spelling in this post.)

Welknair
2010-11-13, 03:17 PM
I've read through the Naruto D20, but haven't managed to convinced my players to try it. I have watched only the first part of the Naruto series, but I immediately liked the Naruto D20 system.

1. Amazing diversity
2. Well thought out rules
3. FREE
4. Epic battles
5. Fits PERFECTLY into standard adventuring setup (Three or four heroes, with diverse abilities and backgrounds, working together to accomplish dangerous missions and undergo quests... It like in D&D, just minus the tavern and cliche)
6. You're a FRIGGIN NINJA

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-13, 03:22 PM
Yeah, Naruto D20 has a lot of good points, but many bad ones. The worst however is that basicly every character suffers from a bad case of MAD and even the 40 point buy is sometimes not enough to be able to modle a real Naruto Ninja. Every character more or less needs at least some points in all stats. Having lower stats kills a Naruto D20 character.

However, to me the appeal of the system is it's flavor. It just FEELS like Naruto and no other system dose that in the same way Naruto D20 does.(Though refluffed D&D Psionics can come close.)

If I could I would make my own version of Naruto D20 based on D&D and elements from pathfinder instead of D20 Modern, using refluffed Psionics as Jutsu and actually creating homebrew powers that would be many of the iconic jutsu. I would also not use bloodline templates. Rather they would be feat trees and charcters would thus get more feats in the same way a pathfinder character dose. The only issue I have is the fact that I am not the best maker of homebrew crunch(fluff is another story)....so yeah.

Aotrs Commander
2010-11-13, 05:26 PM
I looked over Naruto D20 at one point, I think. I've occasionally threatened to run a Naruto game, though if I did, I'd probably do my usual job of stealing the best bits from it. I've always personally thought that Naruto would work best in D&D by making everyone a gestalt psionic//adept character. Psionics for the nin- and gen- jutsu and manouvers for the taijutsu.

Prime32
2010-11-13, 05:32 PM
The other thing Mutants and Masterminds lacks is the "learning" aspect of Naruto. In M&M you start off with all your powers. As you fight on you hardly ever learn any new powers. Heck, in some games you don't even get enough power points to make exsisting ones that much stronger. So, while M&M can simulate a naruto character well, you feel like just that, a simulation of a naruto ninja. you can't learn new jutsu, lack chakra and are more or less high tier from the start of the game. Meanwhile D20 Naruto, despite it's clunkyness has chakra, allows you to learn more techniques and overall gives you the feeling of actually being a Naruto ninja rather then a simulation of one.Depends on how you built your characters. If you're using Alternate Powers then you can learn a new ninjutsu or increase the strength of all your existing ones with just 1 character point.


I looked over Naruto D20 at one point, I think. I've occasionally threatened to run a Naruto game, though if I did, I'd probably do my usual job of stealing the best bits from it. I've always personally thought that Naruto would work best in D&D by making everyone a gestalt psionic//adept character. Psionics for the nin- and gen- jutsu and manouvers for the taijutsu.Likewise. I handled bloodlines and elemental chakra with feats. Don't forget to grant water-walking, etc. at a certain level.

Callos_DeTerran
2010-11-13, 05:39 PM
Yeah, Naruto D20 has a lot of good points, but many bad ones. The worst however is that basicly every character suffers from a bad case of MAD and even the 40 point buy is sometimes not enough to be able to modle a real Naruto Ninja. Every character more or less needs at least some points in all stats. Having lower stats kills a Naruto D20 character.

Er...Are you certain about this point? Because I've played the system a fair bit (I even ran the second Naruto D20 game on this board and I'm STILL running it) and I can honestly say that MAD hasn't really crippled or affected any character any more then in regular D&D. Having higher stats is NICE, but it's also nice in D&D too.

If anything, I'd say that Naruto d20's worst point is poor editing and the sheer length of it. Granted, MORE then half of the book is just jutsu, but it's still obscenely long. Oh, and the fact it updates constantly is a pain in the ass, sometimes with large changes to base mechanics.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-13, 06:01 PM
You don't actually have much mad if you played a focused character. However most characters in Naruto are good in at least two of ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijtust and everybody knows at least SOME chakra control. In Naruto D20 if you don't have the stats you can really only excel in one specific area while most ninja in the actual manga are good in at least two out of 3 technique types. So while MAD won't hurt you, your character if lacking good stats will not be on the same level as the actual ninja in the manga. However, that may be realistic since most of the manga focuses on a small group of really strong ninja so for all we know those fodder ninja we see get picked off like flys may only excel in one area instead of 2, and there is always Rock Lee...(Who is focused on one thing and STILL awesome.)

Callos_DeTerran
2010-11-13, 06:12 PM
You don't actually have much mad if you played a focused character. However most characters in Naruto are good in at least two of ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijtust and everybody knows at least SOME chakra control. In Naruto D20 if you don't have the stats you can really only excel in one specific area while most ninja in the actual manga are good in at least two out of 3 technique types. So while MAD won't hurt you, your character if lacking good stats will not be on the same level as the actual ninja in the manga. However, that may be realistic since most of the manga focuses on a small group of really strong ninja so for all we know those fodder ninja we see get picked off like flys may only excel in one area instead of 2, and there is always Rock Lee...(Who is focused on one thing and STILL awesome.)

It's more then possible to still be good at two different areas (and have passable chakra control) with only average stats though. Heck, all you need for the same level of Chakra Control as the majority of the characters on the show is a fair number of ranks in the skill! Which leaves...two stats for two other areas. Possibly three if one of those areas is taijutsu (for Con), but even that's not necessary if you have sufficient defensive jutsu.

But your point on the manga focusing on exceptional ninja is also equally valid.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-11-13, 06:20 PM
True, and while your DCs may not be that great with lower stats unlike D&D there are actually quite a few feats in Naruto D20 that can raise DCs, so I suppose it's not all that bad. I guess I am just too used to seeing people like Darth Sasuke, (Future Benevelont Dictator) second comming of Rikudou Naruto and he who out-trolls aizen(Madara) that I kinda forgot a time when most ninja where not all at the same power level as an epic level generalist wizard with epic spellcasting .