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Beelzebub1111
2010-11-13, 09:19 AM
Do you roll the extra damage from an energy(Flaming, Shocking, Frost, Vitriolic) weapon again when you score a critical hit? by RAW.

Tyger
2010-11-13, 10:23 AM
Do you roll the extra damage from an energy(Flaming, Shocking, Frost, Vitriolic) weapon again when you score a critical hit? by RAW.


Short answer. No.

Long answer: No.
From the SRD on critical hits:

Extra damage dice over and above a weaponís normal damage are never multiplied.

sonofzeal
2010-11-13, 10:35 AM
That's what the "burst" effect is for. +1 bonus for 1d6 on each normal hit, +2 bonus for that 1d6 and extra damage (and often an effect of some sort) on a critical.

-- oops, posted from wrong account. Not actually sonofzeal.

sonofzeal
2010-11-13, 10:55 AM
(this is actually sonofzeal this time)

Just to explain - I occasionally post from a shared family computer when visiting my parents, and forgot to log off. That'd be my brother then.


But yes, bonus damage dice don't multiply. Some special weapon enchantments do funky things on crits, but that's up to the text to tell you. Default is nothing.

DarkEternal
2010-11-13, 11:11 AM
So, if a weapon has that enchantment on it, that gives +5 to damage(forgot what it's name is, I think it's from the psionic handbook), does that damage get multiplied in the critical hit?

Ernir
2010-11-13, 11:20 AM
So, if a weapon has that enchantment on it, that gives +5 to damage(forgot what it's name is, I think it's from the psionic handbook), does that damage get multiplied in the critical hit?

Yes, it does.

Greenish
2010-11-13, 12:36 PM
So, if a weapon has that enchantment on it, that gives +5 to damage(forgot what it's name is, I think it's from the psionic handbook), does that damage get multiplied in the critical hit?Collision. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#collision)

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-13, 03:56 PM
So, if a weapon has that enchantment on it, that gives +5 to damage(forgot what it's name is, I think it's from the psionic handbook), does that damage get multiplied in the critical hit?

Yes, it does.

To elaoborate, it is only extra damage dice which do not get multiplied. Any static bonuses to your weapon's damage roll (from high Strength, magical enhancement bonuses, Power Attack, etc.) WILL get multiplied because they are merely modifying your normal damage roll.

Pechvarry
2010-11-13, 04:05 PM
so what about static elemental damage? If I have a spell that makes my sword swing deal an additional 1d6 + 10 damage, shouldn't the 10 multiply? A bit odd. Tome of Battle maneuvers (iirc) have an explicit clause stating they do not multiply upon a critical, even if it's static damage.

Beelzebub1111
2010-11-13, 04:33 PM
so what about static elemental damage? If I have a spell that makes my sword swing deal an additional 1d6 + 10 damage, shouldn't the 10 multiply? A bit odd. Tome of Battle maneuvers (iirc) have an explicit clause stating they do not multiply upon a critical, even if it's static damage.
If it explicitly says it doesn't multiply than it doesn't otherwise it does. It's a case of specific taking precedence over general.

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-13, 07:03 PM
so what about static elemental damage? If I have a spell that makes my sword swing deal an additional 1d6 + 10 damage, shouldn't the 10 multiply? A bit odd. Tome of Battle maneuvers (iirc) have an explicit clause stating they do not multiply upon a critical, even if it's static damage.

Is there actually a spell like that? :smallconfused:

Thurbane
2010-11-13, 07:23 PM
As others have said - anything expressed as dice beyond base weapon damage is not multiplied on a critical. Anything that is a static number is (unless specifically spelled out not to in the description).

Pechvarry
2010-11-13, 07:58 PM
Is there actually a spell like that? :smallconfused:

Spell compendium: Fires of Purity. Adds CL (max 15) to damage you deal with melee attacks as well as dealing said damage to attackers.

Greenish
2010-11-13, 08:40 PM
Tome of Battle maneuvers (iirc) have an explicit clause stating they do not multiply upon a critical, even if it's static damage.They have no such clause.

Douglas
2010-11-13, 09:48 PM
They have no such clause.
Strikes, at least, most certainly do. ToB page 43, in the paragraph that's split with page 42.

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-13, 10:17 PM
Spell compendium: Fires of Purity. Adds CL (max 15) to damage you deal with melee attacks as well as dealing said damage to attackers.

That's just a static addition then, not the dice + number like you posted before. We already know the answer to that.

I was asking if there was actually a spell that added something like the 1d6 + 10 from your previous post.

Ernir
2010-11-13, 10:43 PM
Strikes, at least, most certainly do. ToB page 43, in the paragraph that's split with page 42.

Interesting.

It could be argued, though, that the next sentence, "You treat it just as you would extra damage from another special ability, such as sneak attack", negates the whole thing. Sneak Attack is only not multiplied because it's extra dice, right?

Jjeinn-tae
2010-11-14, 12:12 AM
Interesting.

It could be argued, though, that the next sentence, "You treat it just as you would extra damage from another special ability, such as sneak attack", negates the whole thing. Sneak Attack is only not multiplied because it's extra dice, right?

Well it is precision damage, I think they like to specify you don't multiply precision damage on a critical... though I'm not entirely sure on that.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-14, 12:42 AM
Sneak Attack is only not multiplied because it's extra dice, right?
Yes, you're right. From Rules Compendium on page 42:
If the bonus damage from a precision damage ability is expressed as extra dice of damage, the damage from those dice is never multiplied when the attack receives a damage multiplier (such as from a critical hit). That means that the sneak attack bonus from Craven, which isn't given in terms of dice, is multiplied on a critical sneak attack.

Pechvarry
2010-11-14, 02:20 AM
That's just a static addition then, not the dice + number like you posted before. We already know the answer to that.

I was asking if there was actually a spell that added something like the 1d6 + 10 from your previous post.

Is this important? Not trying to be snide, I'm wondering if there's an interesting avenue you're wanting to explore if there is such a spell. Because 1d6+10 seems easy enough: don't multiply the dice, do multiply the static part.

"Channel spell abilities with Inflict X spells" opens a whole other can of worms: spells (even those represented by dice of damage) can crit and get full multiplication if they have an attack roll. Does this carry over to channeled spells? I suppose they'd become additional dice to the weapon swing, as they're additional effects upon swinging. In which case, dice: no, static added: yes.

KillianHawkeye
2010-11-14, 02:05 PM
Is this important? Not trying to be snide, I'm wondering if there's an interesting avenue you're wanting to explore if there is such a spell. Because 1d6+10 seems easy enough: don't multiply the dice, do multiply the static part.

I didn't say it was important, I just asked if there was really a spell like that. :smallwink::smalltongue:

Keld Denar
2010-11-14, 06:29 PM
I was asking if there was actually a spell that added something like the 1d6 + 10 from your previous post.

CDivine Fires of Purity was 1d6+CL, instead of SpC's errata to simply +CL.

The CDivine version was subject to Empower Spell though, which was kinda nice. Similar to the example of Magic Missile's static damage being multiplied by Empower Spell, so would Fires of Purity's static damage, which made the spell REALLY good.

SpCs version would multiply on a crit though.

BridgeCity
2010-11-14, 08:02 PM
Sort of along the same lines.

You have a spell-storing weapon, with scorching ray stored in it. You declare that you are going to release the scorching ray on your next attack, which just happens to be a critical, and you confirm the critical. Does the damage from scorching-ray get multiplied, given that you technically hit them with a critical for the spells attack roll?

One of the other players in a game I'm in wants to do this, and the DM isn't sure.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-14, 09:18 PM
You have a spell-storing weapon, with scorching ray stored in it.
That's not valid for Spell Storing, as Scorching Ray is "Effect: One or more rays" rather than "Target:". (The difference is you donít have to see the creature youíre trying to hit with a ray, as you must do with a targeted spell.)

You declare that you are going to release the scorching ray on your next attack
D&D doesn't use declared actions except in special circumstances. Assuming you had a valid targeted spell in your Spell Storing weapon instead of the illegal Scorching Ray example, the decision for Spell Storing is only upon successfully dealing damage. Whatever the player says before that point doesn't matter.

BridgeCity
2010-11-14, 09:34 PM
That's not valid for Spell Storing, as Scorching Ray is "Effect: One or more rays" rather than "Target:". (The difference is you donít have to see the creature youíre trying to hit with a ray, as you must do with a targeted spell.)

D&D doesn't use declared actions except in special circumstances. Assuming you had a valid targeted spell in your Spell Storing weapon instead of the illegal Scorching Ray example, the decision for Spell Storing is only upon successfully dealing damage. Whatever the player says before that point doesn't matter.

Sweet, thanks.

Moginheden
2010-11-14, 09:43 PM
That's not valid for Spell Storing, as Scorching Ray is "Effect: One or more rays" rather than "Target:". (The difference is you donít have to see the creature youíre trying to hit with a ray, as you must do with a targeted spell.)

D&D doesn't use declared actions except in special circumstances. Assuming you had a valid targeted spell in your Spell Storing weapon instead of the illegal Scorching Ray example, the decision for Spell Storing is only upon successfully dealing damage. Whatever the player says before that point doesn't matter.

So if you did have a valid damage-dealing spell stored that does dice damage, do the dice get multiplied on the next damage dealing strike of the weapon, if it happens to be a crit? It's dice damage so no... but it's a spell so yes...

Curmudgeon
2010-11-14, 09:55 PM
So if you did have a valid damage-dealing spell stored that does dice damage, do the dice get multiplied on the next damage dealing strike of the weapon
Damage from weaponlike spells represented in terms of dice get doubled on a critical hit; see Complete Arcane on pages 85-86. However, a spell that doesn't have its own attack roll is not treated as a weaponlike spell, and follows the "dice don't get multiplied" rule.

Thurbane
2010-11-14, 10:09 PM
Damage from weaponlike spells represented in terms of dice get doubled on a critical hit; see Complete Arcane on pages 85-86. However, a spell that doesn't have its own attack roll is not treated as a weaponlike spell, and follows the "dice don't get multiplied" rule.
I guess that would also be true of a Duskblade channeling spells?

Curmudgeon
2010-11-14, 10:45 PM
I guess that would also be true of a Duskblade channeling spells?
Yeah; the same rules apply. <- wrong!

Edit: Well, that's a goof. Ignore what I wrote here, and see below.

Pechvarry
2010-11-15, 12:12 AM
It seems channeled spells work as an additional effect of the weapon swing. Thus, they shouldn't get multiplied. The pertinent part:


If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved

Curmudgeon
2010-11-15, 08:28 AM
It seems channeled spells work as an additional effect of the weapon swing. Thus, they shouldn't get multiplied.
Yeah, you're right. If the spell is resolved after the weapon damage is done, there's no longer any chance for multiplication.