PDA

View Full Version : Hexblade into dragon disciple?



Master Thrower
2010-11-14, 01:32 PM
I was considering making a hexblade into dragon disciple. any ideas on the build?
Books- CW, CA, CaAV, CD, PH, DMG, Planar handbook, LB, Drc.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-14, 02:08 PM
Dragon Disciple loses 3 points of BAB and gives you the half-dragon template. You may as well just start out as a half-dragon at +3 LA (or gradually gain it (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a)) and stick with full BAB class(es) which actually give you something relevant to your chosen role. You could eventually even buy off that level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) and be better off than if you'd used Dragon Disciple.

For those available books, if you want to start with Hexblade with some dragon themes, go something like Hexblade 3/ Sorcerer 2/ Talon of Tiamat 5/ Spellsword 1/ Talon of Tiamat 5/ Spellsword 4. Get Power Attack and Combat Reflexes and use a reach weapon, and pick up Maximize Breath and Clinging Breath and at level 10 you'll be able to do a cone of acid which deals 60 damage initially, 30 on the next round, 15 the next round, and then 7 if you delay your next breath by three extra rounds to make it cling for three. Be sure to get Practiced Spellcaster as well, and Leap Attack and Arcane Strike are good choices. Be sure to learn the spell Wraithstrike in Complete Adventurer, you can use a Lesser Rod of Extend to make it last twice as long and since its casting time isn't a standard action or longer it won't be increased due to spontaneously casting it with metamagic. You'll get some significant bonuses to Bluff and Intimidate, good melee combat ability, huge limited-use AoE damage, and a bunch of other abilities for a very well rounded character. Get the spell Blinding Breath as it's one of the strongest save-or-lose effects in the game, and in the very late levels you can learn Cloudkill to use it with your Channel Spell ability from Spellsword, so it becomes a single-target effect which deals 1d4 Con damage per round for ten rounds per caster level. If you can get the Metamagic Specialist ACF in PH2 with a Lesser Rod of Quicken, or a Circlet of Rapid Casting from MIC, you should get the spell Whirling Blade so you can charge and power attack + leap attack with wraithstrike on, then cast a Quickened Whirling Blade to hit every opponent in a 60 ft. line including your initial target with all those same damage bonuses still applied.

Master Thrower
2010-11-14, 02:19 PM
Hmm, this idea seems very interesting, is this a melee build, or more of a spell casting build.

Malbordeus
2010-11-14, 02:48 PM
dragon disciple is actually better than the half dragon template if you look, as it gives you wings, where the template only gives you wings if your large.

a faster way is duskblade(i very nearly wrote duckblade there...) into dragon disciple. but both are interesting.

i'd probably advise 2handed weapon +powerattack to take advantage of the high strength bonus, but otherwise - base fighter buildy stuff.

true_shinken
2010-11-14, 05:17 PM
+1 to Duskblade over Hexblade for this. You get extra slots for your 2nd level spells instead of 3rd level.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-11-14, 05:49 PM
He didn't include PH2 on his list of books, so Duskblade is not an option.


Hmm, this idea seems very interesting, is this a melee build, or more of a spell casting build.

It's sort of a second-row melee, i.e. you want to be close enough to hit them but you want someone else taking the hits from the opponents. That's why a reach weapon is preferred, so opponents will be discouraged from moving in to fight you. The spells are for boosting your melee ability, the occasional crowd-control effect such as Glitterdust, Web, and Black Tentacles, and for solving problems and utility like Dispel Magic. You'll probably want to use some kind of area effect disable/debuff on multiple opponents, then use melee attacks to kill them one at a time starting with the ones who are still a threat. When a few powerful enemies are grouped up you can soften them up significantly with a strong breath attack. The character has a variety of tools at his disposal to sway a battle significantly, which one to use just depends on the situation.

Runestar
2010-11-14, 06:05 PM
dragon disciple is actually better than the half dragon template if you look, as it gives you wings, where the template only gives you wings if your large.

Half-dragon template + 7 lvs in a class which actually does something > 10 lvs in dragon disciple, IMO. Wings can be readily duplicated via magic gear by that time anyways.

In the very least, I would be a half-dragon hexblade12 than a hexblade5/dragon disciple10, never mind that hexblade is a very crappy class (though less so if you use the unofficial class fix).:smalltongue:

true_shinken
2010-11-14, 06:08 PM
Half-dragon template + 7 lvs in a class which actually does something > 10 lvs in dragon disciple, IMO. Wings can be readily duplicated via magic gear by that time anyways.

In the very least, I would be a half-dragon hexblade12 than a hexblade5/dragon disciple10, never mind that hexblade is a very crappy class (though less so if you use the unofficial class fix).:smalltongue:

half-dragon hexblade 12 only has 12d10 hd. That hurts.
Hexblade 5/Dragon Disciple 10 has 5d10+10d12 hd, extra spell slots and wings.
Same base attack bonus on both.
It is still a bad idea because curse is based on hexblade level. Duskblade, as I said, works a lot better for this.

Thurbane
2010-11-14, 06:09 PM
For a melee type, not too concerned about advancing casting, DD is a decent 4 level dip. You only lose 1 BAB, and gain a bunch of melee goodies...

true_shinken
2010-11-14, 06:12 PM
For a melee type, not too concerned about advancing casting, DD is a decent 4 level dip. You only lose 1 BAB, and gain a bunch of melee goodies...
It's pretty good for classes such as Suel Arcanamach and Vigilante as well. You already maxed your casting after 10 levels, so Dragon Disciple is actually the best casting advancement you get.
XXX 6/Arcanamach 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragon Disciple 4 is pretty decent.

Thurbane
2010-11-14, 06:15 PM
It's pretty good for classes such as Suel Arcanamach and Vigilante as well. You already maxed your casting after 10 levels, so Dragon Disciple is actually the best casting advancement you get.
XXX 6/Arcanamach 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragon Disciple 4 is pretty decent.
Very good point - after 10/10 advancement, adding spells slots is icing on the cake. :smallsmile:

Runestar
2010-11-14, 06:22 PM
half-dragon hexblade 12 only has 12d10 hd. That hurts.
Hexblade 5/Dragon Disciple 10 has 5d10+10d12 hd, extra spell slots and wings.
Same base attack bonus on both.
It is still a bad idea because curse is based on hexblade level. Duskblade, as I said, works a lot better for this.

Umm...dragon disciple does not improve class features at all. A duskblade/DD would lose access to higher lv spells and full channeling. How can this ever equate a few extra low lv slots and wings? Or simply going pure duskblade?

ericgrau
2010-11-14, 07:24 PM
Dragon Disciple loses 3 points of BAB and gives you the half-dragon template. You may as well just start out as a half-dragon at +3 LA (or gradually gain it (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a)) and stick with full BAB class(es) which actually give you something relevant to your chosen role. You could eventually even buy off that level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) and be better off than if you'd used Dragon Disciple.
Unlike the BAB you don't, however, lose 3 levels of d12 HD and 2 good saves. Compared to say, a half-dragon barbarian 17, a barbarian 4 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple 10 / barbarian 5 is better. There's an even bigger advantage for a barbarian 4 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple 4 compared to a half-dragon barbarian 6. HP, AB, saves, etc. are higher in the first build. Compared to other classes I dunno. This is all IIRC. Levels 4 or 6-7 might be better stopping points for a dragon disciple than 10. I remember at the very least that those two stopping points are better than the template.

With buyoff ya templates are usually better than anything. But considering that the intent behind buyoff is to make up for abilities that become obsolete and half-dragon characters actually get better at higher levels, not worse, it's a little cheesy. And if it is allowed, why stop at half-dragon? Heck, what happened to the half-minotaur mineral warrior goliaths?

Mark Hall
2010-11-16, 12:35 PM
I was considering making a hexblade into dragon disciple. any ideas on the build?
Books- CW, CA, CaAV, CD, PH, DMG, Planar handbook, LB, Drc.

Generally, this is a good combination for a melee type. While you lose out on a little BAB, you make it back in Strength bonuses, and the abilities from Dragon Disciple make a nice cherry for a melee-oriented character. It's not optimal, but I don't think you'll be hurting for it compared to a straight up hexblade. It becomes a low tier 3/high tier 4 with the combination... a bit higher than a normal hexblade, as the abilities from DD make him more flexible, though still oriented around combat.

In this case, spell selection is pretty important, I would suggest delaying much of your advancement in DD until you have 2nd level spells for your Hexblade, to give you even more flexibility.