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View Full Version : Creating a Weapons Master out of the Ranger(3./PF)



Joshinthemosh
2010-11-15, 01:34 AM
Hi playground,

I have a two prong issue.
I have been rereading the Sword of Shannara Series recently and got the idea to build this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garet_Jax
Garet Jax, Weapon Master

I have been trying to find the class(base or PrC) in either 3.5 or Pathfinder(my party switches between the two depending on what will want to do/play) that would make this concept of a Weapons Master work. I've also looked at some homebrew things, namely Frank and K's Races of War(which has some promise. I intend on putting the Weapon Training feature from the Fighter into this build.)

The second are the balencing issues. My best current idea for a build is take a Ranger, give him BOTH the archery and the Two Weapon Fighting paths at the same time. So in a 3.5 game my level 2 character would have both the Rapid Shot feat and the Two Weapon Fighting feat. At Improved Combat Style he'd get both and so on and so on.

Now obviously as we all know TWF kinda sucks. Hard. That is why I feel it shouldn't be a terribly broken build. I have read Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers in Pathfinder and think it's a great resource but it really doesn't consider the idea of doing both (rightfully so, it's not a standard idea).

I consider myself an optimizer and my party mates are definitly are, bordering on min/maxers. We do try to keep the same level of optimzation but without tier restrictions it gets hard. I realie this isn't always going to be the biggest damage output but I like the character enough to keep in.

So my questions to you playground are

1st-Do you think that this is the best way to achieve my goal of a Weapons Master? If not please feel free to give me ideas.
2nd-Do you feel this current build is overpowered?
3rd-Would you let this fly in your campaign, be it 3.5 or Pathfinder?
4th-I don't really know where this character is going after about level 11 or so. If anyone has any ideas to of things to take from there are much appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Eldariel
2010-11-15, 09:58 AM
Really, "Weapons Master" is clearly just a skilled warrior. "No matter what weapon he chooses..." As such, I'd focus on things that improve your attacks regardless of weapon; that is, anything but Weapon Focus-kinda things. I'd consider two levels of Monk. Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple and Improved Trip seem to fall in line with your goal here and you can get all of the above over those two levels.

After that, I'd head into Tome of Battle. A Monk 2/Warblade (for example) could perform what you're looking at admirably. Pick up a variety of maneuvers, use generically good feats (I guess you'd need to pick up TWF line and maybe dip Ranger 2 for Rapid Shot, or just get your Double Ranger thingy going) and things that boost attacks and defense regardless of what you're working with. Master of the Nine could be good.


Though really, the "beats anyone"-part is mostly him being higher level (mechanically D&D-wise). Something to keep in mind. But the ability to use every weapon; that we can do. Obviously, he also has great stats. Warblade's Weapon Aptitude combined with Exotic Weapon Proficiency seems quite appropriate too.

But yeah, I'd definitely use ToB for this. It's like it's made for a character of this type.

Kaulesh
2010-11-15, 01:40 PM
... As such, I'd focus on things that improve your attacks regardless of weapon; that is, anything but Weapon Focus-kinda things.

...

But yeah, I'd definitely use ToB for this. It's like it's made for a character of this type.

If you're going ToB, you could use any of the "applies to one weapon" feats as well. Don't Warblades get to practice with weapon y in the morning and convert all feats that use weapon x to work on weapon y?

Eldariel
2010-11-15, 02:30 PM
If you're going ToB, you could use any of the "applies to one weapon" feats as well. Don't Warblades get to practice with weapon y in the morning and convert all feats that use weapon x to work on weapon y?

Sure, but I'd avoid relying on that if possible; I find the idea is you can just pick up a weapon and smack somebody upside the head with it. There's Exotic Weapons where your only option is Aptitude + EWP or Gladiator Mask from Master of Masks, but other than that, you don't need much.

Person_Man
2010-11-15, 02:30 PM
Now obviously as we all know TWF kinda sucks. Hard.

I think that's a bit of an over generalization. TWF is (very) inefficient at delivering damage when compared to Two Handed Power Attack. However, it's a moderately efficient method of gaining additional attacks. If you have an effect that is triggered when you attack, Knockback, Knock-Down, Scorpion's Grasp, Staggering Strike, Boomerang Daze, anything that deals ability damage, etc, then TWF can be superior. And depending upon your build, it can also be used effectively in melee and within your thrown range. The Bloodstorm Blade, Master Thrower, Ironsoul Forgemaster, Kensai, Tiger Claw maneuvers, etc.




1st-Do you think that this is the best way to achieve my goal of a Weapons Master? If not please feel free to give me ideas.

Have you read Haberdash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526)? One level of Master of Masks or The Triad (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a) vestige grants you proficiency with every weapon, including every exotic weapon. It's particularly potent at ECL 6ish, when having a high powered magic weapon isn't important.


On all your other questions, I would allow it. Ranger is a Tier 4 class, and Pathfinder didn't improve on it much. Adding 3 extra bonus feats which don't synergize with the 3 that you already get is not a big deal. I would space them out though, and give them to the Ranger on the Deader levels.

Joshinthemosh
2010-11-16, 07:03 AM
Have you read Haberdash? One level of Master of Masks or The Triad vestige grants you proficiency with every weapon, including every exotic weapon. It's particularly potent at ECL 6ish, when having a high powered magic weapon isn't important.


On all your other questions, I would allow it. Ranger is a Tier 4 class, and Pathfinder didn't improve on it much. Adding 3 extra bonus feats which don't synergize with the 3 that you already get is not a big deal. I would space them out though, and give them to the Ranger on the Deader levels.

First paragraph-No I have never seen these(my two DMs are very wary of both ToB and ToM so that explains vestiges. But the Haberdash looks amazing. Thank you very much for that tip off.

Second paragraph-Thank you for the feedback on that. My DM has all but approved it and I like the idea of being able to do both.

Person_Man
2010-11-16, 10:01 AM
Second paragraph-Thank you for the feedback on that. My DM has all but approved it and I like the idea of being able to do both.

Just remember that magic weapons are the most expensive items in the game. Dumping all of your wealth into two of them can put your at a serious disadvantage. If you also put resources into a bow and magic ammo, then you're splitting your resources between 4 different things (not counting armor, rings, wands, etc).

This isn't a big deal at low levels, when you can go without magic weapons without it mattering much. But at higher levels, you generally want a workaround, such as Soulbow, Kensai, Anointed Knight, Ancestral Weapon, a Yuan-Ti Serpent Bow, Eilservs School, and spells that enhance and/or create magic weapons (Greater Magic Weapon, Flame Blade, Thunderlance, etc).