View Full Version : 4 man challenge

2010-11-15, 02:10 AM
Hi everyone,

Using PF rules, a friend and I are going to pit two four-man parties against each other. All of the characters will be ECL 3.

My friend's party will consist of the "classic" party: one each of fighter type, rogue, wiz/sorc, and cleric/druid, built however he wants (lame),.

My party will consist of 4 full casters, in any combination I like (win!).

My question is, what combination do you recommend? I am torn between:

Wizard, Wizard, Druid, Cleric
Wizard, Wizard, Wizard, Cleric

Advice welcome!

2010-11-15, 02:17 AM
Druid, Druid, Cleric, Wizard. You get two tanks that way.

2010-11-15, 02:21 AM
Druid, Druid, Cleric, Wizard. You get two tanks that way.

Yeah but less fun... I don't want to beat them with tanks, I want to beat them with magic!

Unless you think that isn't viable at 4th 3rd level.

2010-11-15, 02:39 AM
Okay, for level 4 here is the plan I would use:

Wizard 1: Has improved initiative and a high dex (for grabbing initiative). He casts glitterdust on his first round, removing one of them from play (maybe more). To help with this he is a Conjuration specialist with a focus to raise his DC's.

Wizard 2: Either casts fog cloud or scorching ray, depending on the success of the first wizard. If several blinded then scorching ray and try to kill them, if not fog cloud for concealment to buff.

Druid: Summons 1d3 wolves, two flanking one of the enemies (the wizard) and 1 blocking their fighter.

Cleric: Soundburst centered on the enemy cleric, or healing if its that time already.

Wolves: Tripping attempts.

That is round 1.

Silva Stormrage
2010-11-15, 02:44 AM
Are 3.5 Templates allowed? And do you want to be cheesy? If so this is what I suggest.

Be a fire-souled and a sorceror, be a lesser aismar for + 2 to charisma and if you are using point buy start with an 18 in cha. Fire-Souled gives a +4 to charisma so you have a 24 in charisma. That means your leadership score is 10 without adding things in like "Kindness" and "Has a base of operations" if you add those two than your leadership is a 13, which gives you 10 level one followers and 1 level two follower as well as a level one cohort.
Now there is no rule that says those level ones can't be class levels, have them all be sorceors then have them all know the spell Power Word Pain. If 12 people cast that evenly on each one of them it will deal 3d6 damage for several rounds based on their hp (4d4 for 50 or less, 2d4 for 51-75, and 1d4 for 75-100 no effect on someone with more than a hundred hp but that shouldn't matter at lvl 3). Have them all cast that every round till they are out of spells, they get 5 1st level spells, if they somehow are still alive start casting ray of frost at one of them 12d3 damage should kill them. Also make sure you look Exactly like these people as well so they don't know who to target.
For the other members... do the same thing for two and have one be an illusionist wizard who will simply stay in invisibility so that If the other team dies of Damage Over Time you still win :). Its very hard to bypass Illusions + Invisibility at that level. Also if you can take the skill trick from Complete scoundrel that allows concentration as a swift action for silent image, I am not sure if you can take it at that level though.

Here is what I would do for none cheesy method.
Buffs (Not sure if allowed): Cast invisibility on the Sorceror
Make sure you have a high dex and improved initiative, nerveskitter will also be useful.
1: Wizard: Apply an Easy Metamagic fel shaken to magic missile, Fel Shaken makes one target shaken with no save for a minute. Two hits with this and they are feared for a minute no save. Make sure you hit different targets with the missiles so that each one gets shaken.

2: Wizard Same as above

3: Wizard Same as above

4: Wizard Same as above

With this you can fear 4 of them no save for a minute if you win initiative.
You should be able to kill them in 10 rounds. If your not sure you can save your second level spells for more fear. Choose first level spells that deal damage, magic missile burning hands etc. Watch out for shield but if the Wizard has that up he will still lose 4v1.

Edit: Added a not as cheap method

2010-11-15, 03:04 AM
Okay, for level 4 here is the plan I would use:
Sorry, I meant 3rd level, my mistake. But yeah that is a great opening round and it still works.

Are 3.5 Templates allowed?


And do you want to be cheesy?

Nope. This is against someone who actually thinks casters are weak and doesn't understand power tiers. If I win with cheese it'll just convince him casters need cheese to win. I want to stay close to core and low-cheese.

Silva Stormrage
2010-11-15, 03:08 AM
Heh darn I always wanted to see someone's reaction to their opponent using Fire-Souled in a low level arena :). Oh well. The second build idea should work though. Unless metamagic reducers are not allowed in this either, if thats the case then you can simply apply fel shaken to a cantrip and blast away.

2010-11-15, 03:11 AM
I forgot to mention the Druids familiar. Depending on situation, have one of the wolves set up to flank the fighter and have the familiar trip him. At this level chances are two trip attempts by anything will have one of them succeed, and if he has a wolf familiar it has good tripping.

If you go with lots o wizard your going to want to have all of them summon one body guard. It won't be as strong as the Druids stuff, but the Fiendish Monstrous Centipede has a +7 grapple, not counting the additional grapple bonus of being large. You could summon three of these and literally grapple their team to death :smallyuk:

stabbitty death
2010-11-15, 04:51 PM
let me know how this turns out, party of pc's v party of npc's according to cr rules is cr x +6 where x = party level, and to me this is horribly over cr'd