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Hironomus
2010-11-15, 08:05 AM
Hello Playgrounders.

This isn't much of a thread but I was wondering if anyone could post a link to a thread dedicated to making fighters powerful. I know one must exist.

I get that fighters are bad and all, but... I dunno, Something has always attracted me to them. Whether its the sheer simplicity, the supposed versatility or maybe I just enjoy playing mostly inneffectual characters... i'm not sure.

So any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Ack and i should mention this is for 3.5

Runestar
2010-11-15, 08:16 AM
I don't think a consolidated fighter guide exists. The thing is that their bonus feats allows them to fill a variety of roles, so advice tends to come in the form of individual fighter builds.

I understand that feeling. Fighter was my favourite class once. Then ToB came out, and warblade subsequently displaced the fighter, but fighter still holds that special spot in my heart. I know it is useless outside of combat and good only for dishing out damage (and even then, requires a fair amount of setting up with the rest of the party), but boy, when I think of how my high lv fighter makes 5 attacks (with haste) and deals out 100+ damage...(shivers...:smallcool:)

There's something about raw damage that just makes it so sexy...:smallbiggrin:

Greenish
2010-11-15, 08:18 AM
Fighters have no class features by default, so look into getting some use out of your feats with Person_Man's Guide to Melee Combos. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7047955&posted=1)

To gain actual class features, look no further than Dungeoncrasher (Dungeonscape) and Zhentarim Fighter (web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) of Champions of Valor).


Oh, and Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) and maneuvers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) are available from WotC site for free.

Hironomus
2010-11-15, 08:22 AM
Well in that case what are the acceptable fighter builds?


I don't think a consolidated fighter guide exists. The thing is that their bonus feats allows them to fill a variety of roles, so advice tends to come in the form of individual fighter builds.

I understand that feeling. Fighter was my favourite class once. Then ToB came out, and warblade subsequently displaced the fighter, but fighter still holds that special spot in my heart. I know it is useless outside of combat and good only for dishing out damage (and even then, requires a fair amount of setting up with the rest of the party), but boy, when I think of how my high lv fighter makes 5 attacks (with haste) and deals out 100+ damage...(shivers...:smallcool:)

There's something about raw damage that just makes it so sexy...:smallbiggrin:

Ah I just never got into the tome of battle. the classes just aren't... basey enough for my tastes. if that makes any sense. But i am about to DM a group with a crusader in it so I had better get used to it. Anyway it would be nice to get over this schoolboy romance I have with the fighter class once and for all, by building a halfway decent one.

Hironomus
2010-11-15, 08:28 AM
Fighters have no class features by default, so look into getting some use out of your feats with Person_Man's Guide to Melee Combos. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7047955&posted=1)



This was exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks.

gbprime
2010-11-15, 08:50 AM
Well in that case what are the acceptable fighter builds?

Bottom line... anyone can dish out damage. And a fighter has to dish out a HECK of a lot of damage before he can top what a duskblade or a rogue do for free thanks to channeled spells and sneak attack. Therefore, most builds will focus on getting the fighter to break the Action Economy somehow. (Three Mountains [Complete Warrior], Robilar's Gambit [PHB2], etc.)



Ah I just never got into the tome of battle. ... But i am about to DM a group with a crusader in it so I had better get used to it.

ToB is like starting your fighter with a prestige class right off the bat. The manuvers give the special abilities or raw damage to keep up with that duskblade or that rogue without a complicated build involved. And when you ADD a complicated build to a ToB class... you get mega damage.

Read up! :smallbiggrin:

Tael
2010-11-15, 09:23 AM
@There is no fighter handbook

Lolwut? Fighter Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870606/The_Fighters_Handbook_--_2007). First result on google.

Curmudgeon
2010-11-15, 09:25 AM
If you want to make your Fighter better, you're going to want to look for options in the rules. The best ones are the Dungeon Crasher ACF (Dungeonscape, page 10), which lets you bull rush opponents into walls for a big boost to damage (keeps you going to Fighter level 6); and the Zhentarim Figher substitution levels (Champions of Valor web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/champions_of_valor.zip), pages 6-7), which let your Fighter use Intimidate to demoralize opponents as a swift action (keeps your Fighter going to level 9). Hit-and-Run Tactics ACF (Drow of the Underdark, page 58) is also good if you plan for mithral (or other special material) armor to reduce heavy armor by 1 weight category; in exchange for losing heavy armor proficiency you get a boost to initiative plus DEX to damage flat-footed foes within 30'.

Fighters are very poor in class features. They've only got:

weapon and armor proficiency (excellent, but not particularly special)
Fighter bonus feats
special access to some feats like Weapon Specializtion
Fighter bonus feats, and those limited Fighter feats, are generally weaker than what special features of other classes provide. But the above options do make your Fighter a bit more versatile.

Lans
2010-11-15, 10:15 AM
It might be worth it to ditch tower shield for another exotic shield.

Boomerang Daze route is good.
Archery can be good.
Lockdown isn't bad
You might be able to pull TWF

I would recommend a 2 level dip into incarnate to cover versitility out of combat.

Mongoose87
2010-11-15, 10:25 AM
It might be worth it to ditch tower shield for another exotic shield.

Boomerang Daze route is good.
Archery can be good.
Lockdown isn't bad
You might be able to pull TWF

I would recommend a 2 level dip into incarnate to cover versitility out of combat.

Boomerang Daze + Lightning Maces + Aptitude Weapons!

Eldariel
2010-11-15, 11:22 AM
I tossed together a somewhat versatile Fighter 20 long ago:

Goliath Fighter 19 (Level Adjustment +1, so...)
Variants: Zhentarim Fighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) Substitutions, Dungeoncrasher Fighter [Dungeonscape], Resolute [Complete Champion], Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug), Skilled City-Dweller (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)

1: Power Attack
2: Dungeoncrasher ACF
3: Improved Bull Rush, Skill Focus: Intimidate (Zhentarim)
4: Resolute ACF
6: Shock Trooper [Complete Warrior], Dungeoncrasher ACF (improved)
7: Zhentarim Intimidation (Zhentarim)
8: Knockback [Races of Stone]
9: Imperious Command [Drow of the Underdark], Zhentarim Intimidation (Zhentarim)
10: Combat Reflexes
12: Robilar's Gambit [Player's Handbook II], Martial Study: Foehammer [Tome of Battle]
14: Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades [Tome of Battle]
15: Stand Still [SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)]
16: Overpowering Attack ACF [Player's Handbook II]/Defensive Sweep [Player's Handbook II] (both are pretty handy though I'd probably go with Sweep as chances to use Overpowering Attack on a Bull Rush-build are sorta rare)
18: Mage Slayer [Complete Arcane], Leap Attack [Complete Adventurer]


The build is fairly simple; you have area control capabilities, charger capabilities and intimidation. You can knock people prone, and smash them to walls for epic damage. The biggest issue is that you need 15 Charisma for Imperious Command and rather high Dex & Str along with decent Int and Con. You can cut the Charisma away by leaving out Imperious Command (but that, of course, kinda sucks since Imp. Command is awesome).

Anyways, that was mostly an exercise in seeing how well you could perform multiple roles as a Fighter. As a bonus, you have a decent number of skill points and a decent skill list thanks to Thug and Skilled City-Dweller. Mind you, the build would still be much stronger with slight multiclassing. Two levels of Ranger for Rapid Shot, one-two of Barbarian for a feat and Pounce and Whirling Frenzy, two of Crusader for Thicket of Blades and maneuvers without trying and suddenly it's much better already. But still, as the constraint was Fighter 20, that's an attempt at Fighter 20 (or 19 due to LA; though a Jotunbrud Human could mostly perform the same if DM allows it to count as Powerful Build for prerequisites which isn't RAW, but is very reasonable).


I also built a bunch of Fighter 20s to kill Tarrasque at some point; they aren't the most amazing works of optimization ever but they do what they do somewhat decently. See:
Archer (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=163500)
Unarmed (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=163711)
Mounted Charger (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=164101)