Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XV [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

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true_shinken

2010-11-15, 08:49 PM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XV. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59pm CUT on Monday, November 22th 2010 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, true_shinken (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=50679). Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, since it breaks anonymity.

Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

CodeNAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

CodeSpells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

This week's special ingredient is:
Complete Warrior's Drunken Master!
We will have trophies for 1st through 3rd places, as well as a special trophy for honorable mention. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez optimiser!

Judges
Grynning - criteria (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774817&postcount=17)
DaragosKitsune
Kesnit
T. G. Oskar
Sonugal

Contestants
OMGPonies
Thurbane
Amphetryon
Private-Prinny
gbprime
Akal Saris
kestrel404
Urpriest
SurlySeraph
Dumbledore lives
Heliomance
Critical

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386#post9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)

OMG PONIES

2010-11-15, 08:52 PM

In as a competitor!

The Vorpal Tribble

2010-11-15, 08:52 PM

Heh heh heh heh...

Thurbane

2010-11-15, 08:54 PM

I'm in the middle of moving house at the moment, but if I get some downtime, I might submit an entry.

gallagher

2010-11-15, 09:02 PM

now i REALLY wish that it was not exam week.

heck, i would use all three of my wishes to not make it exam week just for this competition. i have a really fun build that i have made for a campaign that would surprise EVERYONE MWAHAHAHAHA

but looks like i will have to sit back and watch what everyone else comes up with

Jumilk

2010-11-15, 09:07 PM

I'm glad that OMG liked my trophies. Such a genki person, isn't he?
I hope you can get the gold this time, sweety. Good Luck! :smile:
I like the Drunken Master class because it reminds of Rock Lee from Naruto. I'll start my research to do the trophies so as to make it more original.

Amphetryon

2010-11-15, 09:10 PM

I'm *hic* in on...in on... *hic* this as a contestantantantant. :smalltongue:

Private-Prinny

2010-11-15, 09:30 PM

Love it. I'm in as a contestant, if I can find the time.

gbprime

2010-11-15, 09:35 PM

Drunken Master? I am SO in. Contestant spot please.

http://www.the-movie-library.com/c/10232/10232_2.jpg

OMG PONIES

2010-11-15, 09:37 PM

Already researching, eh Amphetryon?:smallbiggrin:

Grynning

2010-11-15, 11:59 PM

I was actually thinking about competing in the next one, but this will be too much fun to judge. It's Morphin Time!
IRON CHEF JUDGE!

Edit: and to get in the spirit, I am cracking open a Sierra Nevada Tumbler Ale as I type. mmmmm, ale...

DaragosKitsune

2010-11-16, 12:08 AM

I think I would like to judge again. Put me down as one please.

Kesnit

2010-11-16, 08:15 AM

I LOVE this class! Since I suck at building, I'm signing up to judge.

BobVosh

2010-11-16, 08:32 AM

This ought to be amusing. I'm still very busy as of late, so I'll only snark in my rare free time.

Lots of early completes lately.

Signmaker

2010-11-16, 09:24 AM

Drunken Master? Oh this should be fun.

Zergrusheddie

2010-11-16, 10:09 AM

This is the first Monk-type Ingredient, isn't it? Ohh, I will love to see how this turns out.

Grynning

2010-11-16, 11:26 AM

This is the first Monk-type Ingredient, isn't it? Ohh, I will love to see how this turns out.

Interestingly enough, while the class requires you to be a monk to enter (since I don't think there's any other way to get the "flurry of blows" ability), it doesn't advance any monk features, and all of its abilities work in armor. Also, unlike the last couple ingredients, it's actually not a terrible class; it can be used to get some real melee power. We could see some real wacky stuff in this one, I'm looking forward to it.

Criteria in the spoiler.

I go with an overall "feel" and instinct than a point by point breakdown of scores. I am a bit more forgiving on build legality since as a DM I am not one of those guys who is going to check every single feat to make sure you meet the pre-reqs unless you're obviously abusing the game, and I understand that few games actually function in the "RAW Vacuum." However, do NOT take that as a free pass; I will be checking these to the best of my ability and I will dock points if there's a serious screw up.

Originality:
This is a fairly subjective category for me, and like elegance, it will be based on both concept and execution. If your character has a great, clever back story but is based around blase cookie-cutter mechanics, you will probably score in the 2-3 range. Good story with neat mechanics will earn a 4, especially if it's something mechanical I couldn't have thought of myself. Something reeeeaaalllly out there and unexpected will get you a 5, but be careful as you may take hits in other categories if it's too wacky.

Power:
I set a baseline of 3 for power based on what tier (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0) I expect most characters to fall into. For this contest, tier 4 will be 3 points, just like the last contest. Tier 3 performance will earn you 4 points. A few neat tricks and boosts to combat power will get you the half-point bump. Earning a 5 here will be based on how well you explain what the character can do, and if you have any real cool combos or tricks that impress me in the build.

Elegance
This one is my favorite category, and most builds make or break themselves here. What I'm looking for is whether A) I'd like to play the character and B) as a DM, would I allow the character. Back story also figures heavily here, because as nice as your mechanics may be, without an explanation they are really bland. I don't need you to justify every class level with story, or to shoehorn silly PrC fluff into your background, but it had better make sense conceptually as to why your character has the levels they have.

Mechanical things I don't like or wouldn't allow as a DM: Flaws, really obscure sources (this means books most people are unlikely to have access to - use common sense here), excessive dipping (some is ok, like the classic Sorcadin build dipping Spellsword, but if there's more than four slashes ["/"] in your class breakdown I'm going to look at it very closely). I won't give a numerical value because this IS still subjective; some builds can get away with a flaw or something if they really work well otherwise, others....can't.

Obviously a build being blatantly illegal or doing something really questionable that would probably earn a "NO" at most tables will make your score drop here, but as I mentioned at the start I will still be forgiving if I can see that you were trying to build around a good concept (probably earning a 1.5 or a 2).

Use of Secret Ingredient:
How well you do here depends heavily on how you did on the other 3 categories, and whether the PrC in question was key to that success. If your build couldn't have hit the power and elegance levels it did without using the secret ingredient, expect to do well. If you got a low originality score and plain 2 or 3 in the other two, you will still score low here even if you had all 10 levels of the PrC. My main rule here is yes, please use the PrC a lot, but use it well.

dextercorvia

2010-11-16, 01:18 PM

Interestingly enough, while the class requires you to be a monk to enter (since I don't think there's any other way to get the "flurry of blows" ability), it doesn't advance any monk features, and all of its abilities work in armor. Also, unlike the last couple ingredients, it's actually not a terrible class; it can be used to get some real melee power. We could see some real wacky stuff in this one, I'm looking forward to it.

Prediction about the wacky stuff follows:

Prediction removed!

Amphetryon

2010-11-16, 01:21 PM

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.A gentle reminder.

dextercorvia

2010-11-16, 01:41 PM

A gentle reminder.

Duly noted.

Akal Saris

2010-11-16, 04:11 PM

I'm in. I have a pretty silly idea for this one :smallbiggrin:

OMG PONIES

2010-11-16, 04:15 PM

I'm in. I have a pretty silly idea for this one :smallbiggrin:

And all who gazed upon it shook with fear.

kestrel404

2010-11-16, 05:51 PM

I'm in. I've got most of the build done already and now I'm working on fluff.

I hope the hangover's not too bad...

Keld Denar

2010-11-16, 05:54 PM

Mad props if anyone references the Basket Weaver's Handbook...

true_shinken

2010-11-16, 07:59 PM

since I don't think there's any other way to get the "flurry of blows" ability

There is. :smallcool:

Also, with Akal and OMGPonies competing, this will be veyr interesting. See, Akal won 3 times, OMG won twice. They might tie this time! Of course competition will be steep since we also have one time winners gbprime and Amphetryon on the mix!
This is going to be one explosive Iron Chef, I tell ya.

EDIT: Man, I just saw Jumilk's sketch for the trophy. Awesome does not describe it! It's way beyond awesome!

Urpriest

2010-11-16, 09:39 PM

Potentially in as a competitor. I had an idea for this class awhile back that deserves its chance in the sun.

Akal Saris

2010-11-16, 11:07 PM

There is. :smallcool:

Also, with Akal and OMGPonies competing, this will be veyr interesting. See, Akal won 3 times, OMG won twice. They might tie this time! Of course competition will be steep since we also have one time winners gbprime and Amphetryon on the mix!
This is going to be one explosive Iron Chef, I tell ya.

EDIT: Man, I just saw Jumilk's sketch for the trophy. Awesome does not describe it! It's way beyond awesome!

Lots of repeat offenders here!

Glad to hear that the next trophy will live up to the previous one! :smallbiggrin:

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-16, 11:13 PM

Wow, that many competitors!? Drunken Master sure seems to be popular.

Hmm...I'd think about being a judge, but I'd go with hiding my criteria. Mostly because I want people to surprise me, not please me. Also, it would make people think about interesting stuff without the worry of choosing one thing or another.

However, I'll probably be forced to unleash my criteria one way or another. I'd also be far too verbose as a judge, though that would allow a very stringent analysis of each build and how the fluff supports or bolsters the idea; look it at the full package. I find that, by looking at the judges' criteria, stuff gets lost: I don't recall Iron Chef (the actual Iron Chef TV programs, both in Japan and in America) judges ever reveal their criteria, other than "surprise me" and "this better taste good".

So...I'll let the organizers and the other judges decide whether I can be a mystery judge or if I'll be forced to show my criteria so that people attempt to "amuse" me. I'd rather see a risqué build, done with an idea in mind, rather than something to appease the competition. But then again, I'm not entirely free of guilt in trying to do that, so...

Tvtyrant

2010-11-16, 11:15 PM

Is the "Sword and Fist" version the same as the Complete Warrior one?

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-16, 11:18 PM

Is the "Sword and Fist" version the same as the Complete Warrior one?

Nope. Even if it were, the CW version is the official version as it is the updated one. Recall that there may be some skills that changed, and some abilities that may have been nerfed a bit during the transition.

SurlySeraph

2010-11-16, 11:21 PM

I'm potentially in as a competitor. Hope my possibly-original idea hasn't already been thought of.

Grynning

2010-11-17, 12:02 AM

true_shinken

2010-11-17, 07:45 AM

So...I'll let the organizers and the other judges decide whether I can be a mystery judge or if I'll be forced to show my criteria so that people attempt to "amuse" me. I'd rather see a risqué build, done with an idea in mind, rather than something to appease the competition. But then again, I'm not entirely free of guilt in trying to do that, so...
What Grynning said. Also, I believe I only had my criteria posted once while I was judging. So I believe you could, yes, be a 'mystery judge'.:smallcool:

Adumbration

2010-11-17, 08:02 AM

I don't know if it's just me, but I sometimes have trouble following the code columns in the table. So I made a slight modification to it - use it if you like.

NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+BaB|
+Fort|
+Ref|
+Will|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

true_shinken

2010-11-17, 08:13 AM

Adumbration

2010-11-17, 08:30 AM

Hm, I do share your concerns. Adumbration. Filling the tables is a major pain and sometimes it leads to mistakes. We need the organization, though.
I like Adumbration's table, I believe it could be an alternative to teh one we use... but having different tables might confuse judges and contestants alike. So I really dunno.

I just switched +x with relevant sections, for my own use. Figured might as well post it here in case someone else has similar problems. :smalltongue:

Urpriest

2010-11-17, 01:21 PM

The Drunken Master's Improved Improvised weapons ability allows him to use long weapons as reach weapons according to their length. Complete Warrior's section on Improvised Weapons states that long weapons have 10 foot reach and must be used two-handed. Does the Drunken Master's ability then mean:

1. Drunken Masters, unlike other improvised weapon users, can use long weapons with greater than 10 foot reach.

2. Drunken Masters, unlike other improvised weapon users, can use long weapons without using them two-handed.

3. Both.

or 4. Neither?

Amphetryon

2010-11-17, 01:27 PM

Grynning

2010-11-17, 01:58 PM

I would interpret it to mean that "reach weapons according to the their length" means if the weapons are long enough, they are reach weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#reachWeapons), which double your natural reach. There are no provisions in the rules for melee weapons with a longer reach except the whip and whip dagger, which really work more like ranged weapons.

As for using them one handed - I would say there are some things you could use as an improvised whip, but they would follow the rules for a whip, provoking AoO's and whatnot. Any larger items (like the ladder mentioned as an example) would require two hands.

In other words, use common sense.

Edit: Just noticed something else - the text says "improvised weapons with many protrusions (such as chairs) provide a +2 bonus on opponents' disarm attempts." That seems like an editing mistake as it's supposed to be an "improvement" and the other weapons in the game with "protrusions" like the sai provide a bonus on YOUR disarm attempts. If anyone for whatever reason is going with a disarm focused build, I will happily go with the probable RAI on this (that it's supposed to give you the bonus, not the bad guy).

Urpriest

2010-11-17, 02:09 PM

I would interpret it to mean that "reach weapons according to the their length" means if the weapons are long enough, they are reach weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#reachWeapons), which double your natural reach. There are no provisions in the rules for melee weapons with a longer reach except the whip and whip dagger, which really work more like ranged weapons.

As for using them one handed - I would say there are some things you could use as an improvised whip, but they would follow the rules for a whip, provoking AoO's and whatnot. Any larger items (like the ladder mentioned as an example) would require two hands.

In other words, use common sense.

The one reason I don't think that "use common sense" is a useful guide here is that the base rules are already supposed to be based on common sense. Either you say that Drunken Master abilities use common sense but all other improvised weapon users don't (so the difference would be something like Drunken Masters using whiplike objects while others can't), or the normal rules are based on a commonsense idea of what you can do with an object and Drunken Masters have superhuman abilities with improvised weapons. The latter seems like the intent of the class. So I don't see the ability adding nothing to their capabilities, or adding something largely unrelated to the text like whip use.

Grynning

2010-11-17, 02:13 PM

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-17, 02:26 PM

I didn't used to post criteria, but since the contest started allowing disputes of scores (usually on rules grounds) it's a good idea to let people know up front what will fly and what won't. Criteria aren't strictly enforced or anything, but for the competitors it's good to know if you are going to dock in elegance because you dislike Unearthed Arcana or hit them in power if they are a basic core melee fighter (those are JUST EXAMPLES guys, not my actual criteria, you can read it above).

What Grynning said. Also, I believe I only had my criteria posted once while I was judging. So I believe you could, yes, be a 'mystery judge'.:smallcool:

Hah! Then I shall be a mystery gourmand judge, even if my name is known! What shall be unknown is my criteria to judge, though I will surely deck for stuff that's on the main rules, of course. It's not like I'll allow everything.

But really, surprise me. Stuff isn't fun when you're not opening your books for everything and really using your mind. Of course, that doesn't mean all judges will like it, but hey, it's good to try something different without trying to exactly please ;)

Rancor1

2010-11-17, 02:29 PM

Urpriest

2010-11-17, 02:34 PM

:smallconfused:
Normal people can't use an improvised weapon to gain reach, or any sort of special weapon property other than using it do lethal damage. That's what the Drunken Master class feature does. The "weapon" still has a size and requires an appropriate number of hands.

Look at page 158 of Complete Warrior. Normal people can use improvised weapons to gain reach, as well as several other benefits. Since this is in the same book as the Drunken Master, I would assume that the Drunken Master is assumed to use these rules for improvised weapons. This makes sense, as most of the Drunken Master Improved Improvised Weapons abilities are upgrades from these rules: tables can be tower shields instead of just giving a +2 shield bonus, and objects with protrusions give an extra +2 to disarm. The only one that doesn't seem to be an upgrade is the use for reach, which is why I'm curious as to what the upgrade was intended to be. Dual-wielding seems silly, but unlimited reach might be closer to the intent.

Grynning

2010-11-17, 02:35 PM

The prevalent assumption that I have seen on CO boards is #1, that a drunken master can use exceptionally long items to grant exceptional reach beyond +5 ft depending on that length of the item. A 50ft ladder would grant 50 ft reach. As it really is the only useful or interesting ability they get other than drink link a demon, which takes a while to use with move actions, I would strongly argue for this ruling...otherwise the abilities are rather bland.

No...just no...you can't even wield a 50 ft. ladder. That'd be the equivalent of a Gargantuan weapon at least.

Improvised Weapons

Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

I know "size category" generally refers to handedness, but simple logic dictates that extends to the actual size of the weapon as well.

Rancor1

2010-11-17, 02:39 PM

Grynning

2010-11-17, 02:44 PM

...that is exactly why it is an improvised weapon. The ability doesn't say anything about weight, so a medium creature is still limited to 50 lbs for a 2h'd weapon by the improvised weapon rules. But if you could find a 100 ft item that weighed less than 50 lb I would think it would be wieldable as an improvised weapon.

Do you know what leverage is? I hate to kill catgirls here, but you can't effectively swing something that long, regardless of its weight.

If you are larger in size category yourself, you can wield bigger things, sure. But there's nothing in the rules here that indicate you can do more than double your natural reach with a reach weapon.

Amphetryon

2010-11-17, 02:46 PM

As far as I can tell, the Improvised Weapons abilities of Drunken Master are there as damage boosters, plain and simple.

Of course, that could just be the alcohol talking.

Rancor1

2010-11-17, 02:49 PM

What does real world physics have to do with a magical world with super human heroes? No one in the real world could wield it...but a hero that can dead lift 5,000 lbs?...why not? Of course it would have to fit in the confines of the environment.
By the improvised weapon rules you could wield a 10 ft+ item as an improvised weapon it would just grant normal reach as a reach weapon. The drunken master is a special case where they (arguably) get more.

You can't flurry with them, you can't enhance them (I wouldn't think you could, they aren't weapons)...even with the extra 1d12 damage you would do better sticking with unarmed strikes.

true_shinken

2010-11-17, 03:26 PM

You can't flurry with them, you can't enhance them (I wouldn't think you could, they aren't weapons)...even with the extra 1d12 damage you would do better sticking with unarmed strikes.

Well, you can't enhance unarmed strikes either. ^^
Sadly, Drunken Master is not mentioned in CW's errata.
Since the Drunken Master's improvised weapons deal more damage than his unarmed strike, the only thing you can't do with them is use flurry of blows (though, of course, there might be a way around that). The example character just mentions 'long items have reach', so I'll understand that 'according to their lenght' just means 'it needs to be this large to grant reach'.
So, no 50ft reach ladders. And yes, chairs give the +2 bonus to Drunken Masters, not their opponents.
Man, this is an editing mistake that I never expected to see. If you just use the improvised weapon rules + Drunken Master, it makes sense. But if you use CW's improvised weapon rules... then it's a mess. O.o Talk about poor editing.

Urpriest

2010-11-17, 03:35 PM

Man, this is an editing mistake that I never expected to see. If you just use the improvised weapon rules + Drunken Master, it makes sense. But if you use CW's improvised weapon rules... then it's a mess. O.o Talk about poor editing.

So for the purposes of this competition, which improvised weapon rules are we assuming?

true_shinken

2010-11-17, 03:40 PM

So for the purposes of this competition, which improvised weapon rules are we assuming?

CW is a lot more complete. So let's use that. The only thing we need to clarify is that 50ft ladders would only double your natural reach.

Rancor1

2010-11-17, 03:43 PM

With regards to flurry...With the editing issues with the drunken master do we really want to get into the editing mistakes on a supposedly 3.5 prestige class that references 3.0 monk base attack abilities? And if so, is the official ruling to assume that everything it says is nonsense and just that it allows flurry to work?

Also, if you use a large improvised weapon that would do 2d6 damage by the CW rules are you forced to use the 1d6 unarmed strike damage (if that is all you have) by the Drunken master rules?

...my main build is shot. 50 ft poles would have been fun...argh.

Urpriest

2010-11-17, 03:44 PM

CW is a lot more complete. So let's use that. The only thing we need to clarify is that 50ft ladders would only double your natural reach.

Ok, so again just clarifying, we're saying that Drunken Masters gain no extra abilities with improvised reach weapons from their Improved Improvised Weapons class feature?

Also, does the bonus from using a pronged object to disarm as described in that class feature stack with the bonus described in the Complete Warrior rules? So in total they'd have +4 to disarm, like a Sai?

Private-Prinny

2010-11-17, 03:46 PM

OMG PONIES

2010-11-17, 04:10 PM

...my main build is shot. 50 ft poles would have been fun...argh.

Aim for the stars! Rope comes in 300 ft lengths!

Rancor1

2010-11-17, 04:15 PM

Well, it would have been fairly arbitrary reach depending on the environment. Metamorphosis doesn't have a limit on the size/shape of the object....

true_shinken

2010-11-17, 04:32 PM

If you did enhance your unarmed strikes (Amulet of Mighty Fists/Necklace of Natural Weapons), would those bonuses extend to improvised weapons, since they deal "as much damage as your unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 points"?
They would extend to damage, I believe, yes.

Ok, so again just clarifying, we're saying that Drunken Masters gain no extra abilities with improvised reach weapons from their Improved Improvised Weapons class feature?

Also, does the bonus from using a pronged object to disarm as described in that class feature stack with the bonus described in the Complete Warrior rules? So in total they'd have +4 to disarm, like a Sai?
Yeah, no extra abilities from improvised reach weapons and it stacks to +4.

Grynning

2010-11-17, 04:42 PM

I see, I had forgotten that CW expands on improvised weapons and says that basically anyone can do what the Drunken Master's "Improved Improvised Weapon" feature does. So I can see how people would think that it was supposed to add greater reach. Sadly, I don't think the wording of the ability supports that, and it certainly doesn't let you wield larger weapons than you normally could (even though there is a disconnect in D&D between size and reach). All the feature does, as far as I can tell, is let you use tables as tower shields.

My example of using an improvised whip was just as me constructing a situation where I could see a one-handed reach weapon working.

Edit: Just to clarify, I am not one of those "Everything must be realistic, melee can't have nice things" people (I love ToB, the sword and sorcery genre, and melee characters in general), I was just saying that I don't think the ability does that within the rules.

WinWin

2010-11-17, 04:59 PM

My interpretation of improvised weapons was completely different.

Basically I thought it simply allowed the monk to fight 'unarmed' while holding mundane objects. Flagons, cups, adventuring gear, whatever. They are an extension of their unarmed ability. Not a typical armed attack. The fact that they can adapt that ability to a variety of objects and environments dos not mean they are actually wielding the weapon as 'normal.' If that were the case, the description should have refereed to the chapter on improvised weapons in the same book.

I mean, just because Jackie Chan uses a pinball machine in a fight scene does not mean he is using less Wushu...It just means his wushu is good enough to incorperate a pinball machine in a beatdown on someone.

Of course it could just be typical WoTC editing, or a misinterpretation by me.

gbprime

2010-11-17, 05:28 PM

A drunken master's improvised weapon deals as much damage as his unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 damage.

How does it scale up?

Let's say the unarmed strike deals 1d10+1d4. Then you enlarge one size category. Does the damage become 2d8+1d6, or 2d8+1d4?

Grynning

2010-11-17, 05:38 PM

How does it scale up?

Let's say the unarmed strike deals 1d10+1d4. Then you enlarge one size category. Does the damage become 2d8+1d6, or 2d8+1d4?

I think the problem with this one is that the Drunken Master PrC doesn't give proviso's for larger or smaller improv. weapons.

On one hand, I'd say that if the improvised weapon you were using was still a medium weapon, it'd still do the 1d4, but if you picked up a larger improvised weapon, like say, a large table that you couldn't normally lift, or the bar, or something, then it would start to scale up like a weapon.

Or it could be interpreted that the improvised weapon damage bonus doesn't scale at all, since it's adding to the monk unarmed strike damage, which already scales up with size...

I dunno. I didn't expect this class to have so much to debate...yeesh.

OMG PONIES

2010-11-17, 06:51 PM

I don't think it scales. I think of improvised weapons as a group--large improvised weapons are still improvised, and as such get the listed bonus.

true_shinken

2010-11-17, 07:02 PM

I don't think it scales. I think of improvised weapons as a group--large improvised weapons are still improvised, and as such get the listed bonus.

Exactly. I'd rule as so myself.

Grynning

2010-11-17, 08:10 PM

That's what I'll go with then. I think the idea is that using improvised weapons replaces the standard monk damage bonuses you'd get from your levels, which it pretty much evens out with.

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-17, 10:53 PM

Hmm...apparently Improvised Weapons is more of a replacement to damage. You'll mostly deal more damage as a monk with your unarmed strikes than with your improvised weapons anyways, if you compare options and progression with the table and the system used to determine maneuverability (you'd need to be at the exact minimum level to enter, level 6, so that one of the options tends to be better than using an unarmed strike, but there are ways to increase your unarmed strike damage).

I'd go with how Scorpion Kama works: you deal the amount of unarmed strike damage with the weapon, but you'd use the weapon's attributes: thus, you can't use Magic Fang or Amulet of Mighty Fists to add magic damage, plus the weapons wouldn't have the ki strike enhancements to unarmed strike damage.

In gbprime's case, you'd deal 2d8 + 1d4 at 1st level. The 1d4 behaves more like sneak attack than weapon damage: the unarmed strike damage replaces the improvised weapon damage (thus, you'd deal more damage with lighter weapons but lower damage with bigger weapons) and add the 1d4 to the damage separately. This would also imply not multiplicating the attack on a critical (so in a crit, the weapon would deal 2d8 x 2 + 1d4). This is why the other attack scales up: you're keeping your US damage the same, and adding extra damage to what you can already do.

Improved Improvised Weapons is an addition, so disarming with a weapon having protrusions would deal a +4 (+2 from what it had, plus an extra 2 for being a Drunken Master).

Also, a 50 ft. ladder? Good luck trying to lift it as a Medium character. Apparently it was meant that way (granting 50 ft. reach to a character that could use a ladder of that size), counting that Medium creatures couldn't lift a ladder of less than 30 ft. (since a ladder with 10 ft. weights 20 lbs., you may figure that a weapon with 30 ft. weights 60 lbs.). Then again, unless the DM rules that, there are no ladders larger than 10 ft. I presume it's Imp. Improvised Weapons striking again: after all, since CW's improvised weapons are an extension to improvised weapons' rules in the PHB and IIW applies only to Drunken Masters, it's a "specific trumps general" situation that's easy to adjudicate.

However, for purposes of not clashing with the judges, there are no poles or ladders longer than 10 ft., and rope can only be used as a weapon up to 15 ft. distance (applying spiked chain/whip rules to it). You can, however, use a rope as a lasso, a non-spiked non-chain that acts like a spiked chain, or as a whip.

Hmm...I think it's better to determine improvised weapons' ranges and effects for purposes of this competition in order to have a general idea on what to work with.

Pechvarry

2010-11-17, 11:51 PM

I hate to bring this back up, but fighting with 30' poles is extremely common in kung fu flicks.

Grynning

2010-11-18, 12:03 AM

30 feet is as tall as most telephone poles. Nearly 10 meters, for those on the metric system. Wielding such a thing would be quite ridiculous, not to mention the incredible inconvenience of carrying it around. Most longstaffs in kung fu movies are about 8 to maybe 10 feet long at most.

Again, I am all for crazy awesomeness in melee characters, but there is still verisimilitude to consider. I just can't picture it working in any way that would resemble anything out of a martial arts movie or a fantasy novel.

WinWin

2010-11-18, 12:31 AM

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-18, 01:13 AM

If you think the improvised weapons is complicated, consider the main feature of Drunken Master.

What exactly is a standard drink? Wine and Ale are referenced...but what if a drunken master imbibes spirits. If a shot of whiskey is the equivelant of a tankard of ale...what if a drunken master imbibes a tankard of whiskey?

This is a tankard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankard). It's full of ale, which can be correlated with beer. Beer is roughly 2% to 12% alcohol per volume, which means that a tankard of ale, which has about 20 ounces of ale, would have somewhere along .4 to 2.4 ounces of alcohol. You'd need to consume about 2 ounces of alcohol to get the bonus.

Of course, that would be if you are going for reality. For fairness: 1 unit of alcohol equals 1 drink in your body, regardless of quantity or alcohol per volume. In fact, you need a bottle of wine, which has in average about three times the amount of alcohol in ale, so you can figure that all you need is actually getting drunk. If the drink is really, really strong that it has to be served in a shot vase, then that counts as 1 drink.

So really, no need to break your head on that one. If necessary: consider that you'll have, at any moment, one drink on your waterskin, plus a few bottles of wine around, plus a big gourd which allows for 10 or so drinks.

Also, how is the duration calculated? Does the bonus have to be tracked seperately for every drink, or does the timer start counting down from the last drink consumed?

I consider that it's per drink, but that would be a mess. If you drink more alcohol, you get groggier, so I presume the best way to rule it would be the second one; that way, you get less book-keeping to do.

edit: And personally I think it is a little silly that flurry is required to enter, but can't be used with a class feature like improvised weapons...Not looking for a debate. Just making a statement.

Can't be helped. If the Drunken Master's weapons counted as monk weapons for purposes of flurry, then it could work. Maybe it's because you NEED to make the character a Monk in order to enter, or find another way to flurry (through PrCs that relate to Monk, anyways).

Thurbane

2010-11-18, 02:02 AM

Dumbledore lives

2010-11-18, 02:06 AM

I'll put myself in as a possible contestant.

Pechvarry

2010-11-18, 03:39 AM

Is Weapon Focus (improvised weapon) legal?

kestrel404

2010-11-18, 06:11 AM

Unfortunately, no. Unless you can get proficiency with improvised weapons as a class feature or feat from somewhere I haven't found.

Pretty much all of the good weapon feats require you to be proficient in the weapon's use to take a feat. The improvised weapons rules explicitly state that no one is proficient with them.

Does a way to become proficient with improvised weapons exist? You needn't tell me how, but if you say yes I'll keep looking 'til I find it.

true_shinken

2010-11-18, 06:27 AM

Is Weapon Focus (improvised weapon) legal?

No, it isn't.

gbprime

2010-11-18, 10:39 AM

In Australia anyway, 1 standard drink equals 1 shot (30ml) of spirits, 1 glass (100 ml) of wine or 1 pot (285ml) of heavy beer.

http://www.dassa.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/images/Standard_Drinks1.jpg

I'd use that image as my desktop wallpaper if I thought work would let me get away with it. :smallcool:

Rancor1

2010-11-18, 04:50 PM

I'm not seeing any mention of getting rid of the -4 penalty to attack for using an improvised weapon in the Drunken master entry, which seems like an oversight...fun times.

Darrin

2010-11-18, 05:50 PM

Is Weapon Focus (improvised weapon) legal?

It is if you take two levels of Brawler (Dragon #295, 3.0 PrC but still useable). Brawler is also the only way in the rules to completely eliminate the improvised weapon penalty.

(Note: even though the Drunken Master does more damage with improvised weapons, he still has a -4 non-proficiency penalty by RAW.)

Thurbane

2010-11-18, 05:57 PM

It is if you take two levels of Brawler (Dragon #295, 3.0 PrC but still useable). Brawler is also the only way in the rules to completely eliminate the improvised weapon penalty.

(Note: even though the Drunken Master does more damage with improvised weapons, he still has a -4 non-proficiency penalty by RAW.)
Only problem is that Dragon Mag material is not permissible in Iron Chef, as per the rules.

gbprime

2010-11-19, 12:29 AM

I'm not seeing any mention of getting rid of the -4 penalty to attack for using an improvised weapon in the Drunken master entry, which seems like an oversight...fun times.

Ooo... a -4 to hit for a bonus 1d4 damage? Stellar. :smalltongue:

IN fact, looking at it, the sample Drunken Master doesn't have the bonus damage listed in his attacks, and seemingly only gets a basic 1d6 should he choose to use an improvised weapon.

Nor does he apparently use the improvised tower shield. Perhaps it counts as a shield, voiding many of his monk abilities?

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-19, 01:02 AM

Ooo... a -4 to hit for a bonus 1d4 damage? Stellar. :smalltongue:

Later it gets to a 1d8 (so 4.5 damage average, but a 20% chance of failing), and then much later a 1d12 (6.5 damage average). So you get a return of...around 3.6 for the first and 5.2 for the second, or in layman terms, a +4 to damage on the first and 5 on the second. And in the case of 1d4, you get a +2 to damage on average, so to speak (you'd get exactly 1.92).

So yeah, stellar.

IN fact, looking at it, the sample Drunken Master doesn't have the bonus damage listed in his attacks, and seemingly only gets a basic 1d6 should he choose to use an improvised weapon.

If going by the text, should be 1d8 + 1d8 actually. Notice, though, that he deals 1d10 damage with his unarmed strike, when he should deal 1d8.

Nor does he apparently use the improvised tower shield. Perhaps it counts as a shield, voiding many of his monk abilities?

Well, that's because he doesn't has a table or plank on hand. If he did, he'd probably use it as a tower shield and then use it for cover; otherwise, you know how horrible would be his attack bonus? (-10, darn it!)

DaragosKitsune

2010-11-19, 01:25 AM

Wow, this class was poorly built wasn't it. It has all this potential to be awesome from its flavor but refuses to use it.

Dumbledore lives

2010-11-19, 05:10 AM

So Drunken Masters are going to be ruled as non-proficient with improvised weapons? Because that seems like a huge oversight on WOTC's part, and not actually the intent of the class.

true_shinken

2010-11-19, 05:39 AM

The more I read Drunken Master's improvised weapon rules, the more it seems they are supposed to be different from the standard improvised weapon rules. As in, we should ignore how standard improvised weapons work - the way in the class description is how it works with Drunken Masters. Only then does the class feature actually make sense.
My worry about proficiency is that it starts a trend where people would carry lots and lots of junk with their Drunken Masters to use at the right time... and that's not what was intended, obviously.
Also, how awesome would be for a Drunken Master to grab an adamantine door and slam it on the head of an ogre, uh? :smallbiggrin:

So, we already got a ruling on that previously, so let's not make another one. We'll stick to RAW - Drunken Masters are not proficient with improvised weapons because no one is.

Also, I should just point out yeat another mistake in the example character statblock: it says Swaying Waist does not stack with Dodge. :smallsigh:

Oh, I received the first build! Very fun read, I believe you will all enjoy it.

Jumilk

2010-11-19, 06:35 AM

So, we already got a ruling on that previously, so let's not make another one. We'll stick to RAW - Drunken Masters are not proficient with improvised weapons because no one is.

Why not? If MacGyver can make bombs with chiclets...

I hope to see very funny builds in this IC. November 22 is my birthday! Yay!
C'mom guys, let's build-celebrate it

Heliomance

2010-11-19, 12:22 PM

Drunken Master? In. I already came up with a fun skeleton build involving it some time ago, I'll flesh it out and come up with some fluff.
I hope I won't lose too many points for working off an existing build - I did come up with the original myself, and I don't think it's too widely known.

OMG PONIES

2010-11-19, 04:59 PM

Hmm, Heliomance, you've got me scouring the corners of my memory now trying to recall your builds.

Critical

2010-11-19, 05:34 PM

I have a lot of spare time on my hands, so I'll throw my hat in as a competitor for this one.

Zonugal

2010-11-19, 10:58 PM

I'd also enjoy competing.

Amphetryon

2010-11-20, 07:14 AM

Show me the way to go home
I'm tired and I want to go to bed
Had a little drink about an hour ago
And it went straight to my head...

Character submitted.

OMG PONIES

2010-11-20, 12:10 PM

Submission still requires backstory and formatting. What does 11:59 CUT translate into on the east coast of the US?

Keld Denar

2010-11-20, 05:55 PM

kestrel404

2010-11-20, 06:03 PM

Of course, we also have until Monday to submit builds.

Zonugal

2010-11-20, 08:02 PM

A little confused on the rules (this being my first attempt), but do we have to post a level 20 build or can we opt to show a build at a lower level?

Private-Prinny

2010-11-20, 09:40 PM

A little confused on the rules (this being my first attempt), but do we have to post a level 20 build or can we opt to show a build at a lower level?

Yes. A good chunk of past entries have provided 3-4 "snapshots" of the build's performance at various levels. Multiples of 5 seem to be popular.

true_shinken

2010-11-21, 10:05 AM

I was under the impression that the server used EST for most things, which would mean your time at 11:59.

Otherwise, true_shinken is in Rio, which is GMT-2 right now. Eastern is GMT -5, so that would mean you'd have to submit 3 hours early (by 8:59) to get it in by 11:59 his time.
I won't be so strict with the timing. I'll only check for builds Tuesday morning then post what I got.
Got a new entry that looks very promising today!

Kesnit

2010-11-21, 12:43 PM

Yes. A good chunk of past entries have provided 3-4 "snapshots" of the build's performance at various levels. Multiples of 5 seem to be popular.

But you do have to have an ECL 20 build. You can't just say "the sweet spot is 15, so I am stopping here."* (Well, you could, but I know I would sock you with an Elegance hit.)

* Stopping at LVL 15 would be acceptable if, you had RHD + LA that totaled 5.

Dralnu

2010-11-21, 01:22 PM

50ft. ladders wielded by a medium humanoid would be pretty absurd. Even Jackie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JYNznbL0Q) sticks to ladders around 10ft. maximum.

Anyway, very eager for this contest! Hoping there'll be a sweet build that doesn't use psionics or incarnum so I can yoink it for my own purposes. Always wanted to play a drunken master! :smallbiggrin:

gbprime

2010-11-21, 11:47 PM

Build submitted. Good luck all!

Heliomance

2010-11-22, 04:46 AM

gbprime

2010-11-22, 09:36 AM

The problem I'm having is that while Drunken Master is integral to the build and it wouldn't work without it, I don't need all of it. Everything past the first few levels feels a little shoehorned in.
I'm also not sure where to take it after level 10. Everything I need the build to do, it can already do at that point. Ho hum.

Well then consider whether you'll make more points in effectiveness than you'll lose by not taking 10 levels of the special ingredient. Ultimately it's up to you.

true_shinken

2010-11-22, 09:45 AM

A few IC winners don't even take all levels in the SI. I believe that was the case in the Vigilante contest, though I might be wrong.

OMG PONIES

2010-11-22, 10:19 AM

The following two entries are the only ones that took Gold without finishing the Special Ingredient:

Jorath by Akal Saris (Round I)
Milo by yours truly (Round X)

Amphetryon

2010-11-22, 01:23 PM

Vigilante winner was:

LG Human Paragon 3/Paladin 4/Vigilante 10/Shadowstriker 3.

As OMG indicated, it's statistically very difficult to win this site's IC challenge without finishing the secret ingredient.

kestrel404

2010-11-22, 02:25 PM

I'm gonna bow out of this one. I've been really busy this past week and my build just doesn't seem very original to me, plus I can't seem to write any fluff for him that's worth reading.

I'll post the bare bones of the build after T_S does the reveal. Good luck to everyone competing!

Heliomance

2010-11-22, 03:43 PM

Build submitted. Not expecting to win, but I am hoping to amuse everyone ^^

OMG PONIES

2010-11-22, 04:07 PM

:smalleek: Working on my formatting now--it may be tough to get this one in on time! :smalleek:

Akal Saris

2010-11-22, 07:32 PM

Same here OMG Ponies...I just finished a 30 minute presentation and turned in my final paper...so now I have under 5 hours to complete this challenge :smalltongue:

Amphetryon

2010-11-22, 08:54 PM

Same here OMG Ponies...I just finished a 30 minute presentation and turned in my final paper...so now I have under 5 hours to complete this challenge :smalltongue:

Bah, that's like 3 hours more than you said you spent on Old Lob. :smalltongue:

OMG PONIES

2010-11-22, 10:15 PM

Whew, build submitted! :smallbiggrin:

true_shinken

2010-11-22, 10:26 PM

Well, I believe I have 7 submissions as of yet. I could post them, but I promised I'd wait until tomorrow morning. I have a lot of stuff to do tomorrow, so I'll actually give you guys until tomorrow evening to submit builds. Don't give up, there is still time!

OMG PONIES

2010-11-22, 11:00 PM

A better number this time, and maybe more to come!

Thurbane

2010-11-22, 11:31 PM

Mine won't be coming. The process of moving house is really quite stressful, so I didn't get a chance to make a start on this. Wasn't the most mind blowing of builds anyhow...I just don't seem to have the same amount of imagination to pull out bizarre sources and combos as some of the others here do...mine always end up pretty plain vanilla.

Quietus

2010-11-23, 09:11 AM

Mm, doesn't much help that there's so many disputes and weirdness and just plain... plain.. with the Drunken Master. I didn't sign up for this one simply because I couldn't think of a way to make him do anything interesting and unexpected.

Grynning

2010-11-23, 09:38 AM

I guess Shinken is sleeping in...no builds yet.

I am awake, if hung over, and I intend to be the first judge done this time. I'm hoping for another fast IC judging like the last one.

gbprime

2010-11-23, 09:48 AM

Check his last post. He extended the deadline until this evening. Get some rest. :smallwink:

OMG PONIES

2010-11-23, 09:56 AM

Extended deadline? Haha, it may just give me time for another entry!

Darrin

2010-11-23, 10:17 AM

I couldn't think of a way to make him do anything interesting and unexpected.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't realize speculation was frowned upon. Post scrubbed until builds are posted.

{{scrubbed}}

Grynning

2010-11-23, 10:24 AM

I know it's close to the deadline, but please DON'T speculate until builds are posted. Any of those things could show up in a build and it taints the judges' perceptions to have them up in the thread.

Edit: damn I punctuate improperly a lot.

Amphetryon

2010-11-23, 10:24 AM

I would call all of those build speculations at least somewhat expected...

OMG PONIES

2010-11-23, 01:51 PM

Second submission is definitely in the works.

Akal Saris

2010-11-23, 01:52 PM

You're mad! Mad, I say!

OMG PONIES

2010-11-23, 02:38 PM

Come on, Akal, you probably have two in you. My second is more of a flavor thing than anything else.

EDIT: wewt, second build submitted! Shink, don't extend it again or you might get a third.

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:05 PM

Let's reveal our contestants!

Bu the hobo fist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823742&postcount=125)
Eric Redscale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823760&postcount=126)
Simon the Incompetent Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823771&postcount=127)
Laph Roig (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823784&postcount=128)
Vermillion
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823792&postcount=129)Uthunan Kavuilika (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823803&postcount=130)
Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823813&postcount=131)
Gazebo Jones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823824&postcount=132)

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:07 PM

It happens in the best monasteries, it seems.

The Story:
Abbot's Journal, Restful Crane Monastery:

He was such a promising young man. I still puzzle over what went wrong.

When we took him in he was still almost a child, scared and on the run. The beardless dwarf didn't even know his own name, so we called him Bu.

Bu quickly adapted to life in our monastery. He was courteous and polite, and while he would sometimes sneak out at night we pardoned his youthful indiscretions.

When it came time to learn self-defense, he took to the topic with a fury that spoke of some long-repressed trauma. In retrospect, this should have been our first clue.

Still, we were unprepared when we saw what he did to Lord Xu Bing's son. Lord Xu Bing had been so generous to our monastery, and we were happy to help his son find peace after that embarrassing incident with that prostitute. The poor girl.

After the savage beating he inflicted on a guest of our house, we couldn't let Bu stay. Regrettably, we have had to banish him from our monastery. Perhaps his old family on the streets will take him in.

Bu awoke in the alley as another foot drove into his stomach. The grim faces above him would have seemed unrelated to most people: a tall gnome, a scrawny half-orc, a short goliath. Bu knew what they really were, though. They were his family: the Mongrelfolk.

"Idiot! Why did you have to show yourself so soon!"

"He was bragging about what he had done...I had to..."

Another boot. "And what does that matter? We do not have the luxury of justice, not in this human city. They think we are vermin! We must be patient, taking vengeance when our enemy is most vulnerable. That is our way."

Another spoke. "To fight back blatantly, like you did, is to be noticed and crushed. We sent you to the monks for a greater purpose than one fight. We sent you to learn the ways of the Drunken Masters, those spoiled rich who think this city their playground, so that we might destroy them!"

The eldest of the Mongrelfolk intoned, "You have forgotten our ways. You have lived in a house. You have worked for your supper. You have forgotten what it is to live on the streets, to beg and steal your food. You will no longer forget this. You have fallen into sorrow, dissolved into drink. You shall regain your purpose. From this day forth you shall swear an oath never to sleep in a bed, never to buy food when you can steal it."

Bu looked up at his family, and gave a cracked smile. "I swear."

The Journal of Fistbeard Beardfist:

By Moradin's beard, this fellow is quick to learn! Half-elven he may be (chubby half-elf, though), but he drinks like a dwarf and no mistake! Not a night he doesn't spend sprawled on the cobbles, drunk out of his mind...don't think I've ever even seen him go home!

His initiation was a splendid occasion. All the best of our order were there, and beer aplenty! The boy was roaring drunk, let me tell you, went on about how he'd been a shaved dwarf in a previous life. Not a proper initiation without some embarrassment, I say!

The boy's a fighter too, and a strong one. I remember one day, we were drinking as we usually do, and Master Ha Ming was telling us the story of when he was so drunk he breathed fire on some beggars, and suddenly out of the blue our lad picked up a table and whacked him over the head. Just like that, for no reason! I swear, angriest drunk I've ever met. He won, too: the lad's tough, can take quite a beating, biting and kicking as he goes. What a champ!

In sadder news, Lord Xu Bing was found dead this week in one of the seedier parts of town. Seems that he was mugged by some nameless hobo. He was a great supporter of the Drunken Masters, and will be sorely missed.

The Mongrelfolk elder sat next to Bu, chewing a stolen crust of bread as Bu drank.

"You have done well. But stories are being told...soon, someone will connect the dots. It is time for Bu to disappear. There is an ancient art among our people. We who can pass for any race can, with training, pass for anyone. We can emulate their spells, their prayers, their tricks. A true Chameleon of the city. I will teach you this art, and you will confound our enemies. Soon every hobo they see will be a lurking threat, every drinking partner a secret spy. You shall drive them mad with fear. That will be our vengeance on their decadent ways!"

Soon, all that he said came to pass. Drunken Masters died one by one, betrayed by those closest to them, or defeated by some anonymous drunk. The rich who used the poor for sport would live in fear of...

The Hobo Fist.
The Build
Mongrelfolk Overwheming Attack Monk 2/Urban Ranger 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Drunken Master 7/Chameleon 7

Abilities after racial adjustments, using 32 point buy: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 11
Abilities with bonuses from levels at level 20: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11

Bu, The Hobo Fist
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Urban Ranger 1|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Handle Animal +4, Survival +2, Tumble +4, Sense Motive +4, Bluff +2, Disguise +2, Spellcraft +2, Gather Information +4|Urban Tracking (B), Able Learner|Rival Organization(Drunken Masters), Voice of the City

2nd|Overwhelming Attack Monk 1|
+1|
+4|
+4|
+2|Tumble +1, Gather Information +1, Concentration +2|Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Power Attack(B)|Skill Bonus: Intimidate, flurry of blows, unarmed strike, AC bonus

3rd|Overwhelming Attack Monk 2|
+2|
+5|
+5|
+3|Tumble +1, Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Survival +1|Improved Bull Rush(B), Great Fortitude|Evasion

4th|Urban Ranger 2|
+3|
+6|
+6|
+3|Tumble +1, Spellcraft +1, Concentration +1, Gather Information +2, Concentration +1|Two-Weapon Fighting (B)|Combat Style(two-weapon combat)

5th|Urban Ranger 3|
+4|
+6|
+6|
+4|Tumble +1, Spellcraft +1, Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Survival +1, Concentration +1|Endurance(B)|Endurance

6th|Fist of the Forest 1|
+5|
+8|
+8|
+4|Tumble +1, Concentration +1|Dodge|AC Bonus, fast movement, feral trance 1/day, primal living, unarmed damage

7th|Drunken Master 1|
+5|
+10|
+10|
+4|Bluff +4||Drink like a Demon, Improvised Weapons

8th|Drunken Master 2|
+6|
+11|
+11|
+4|Disguise +1, Bluff +1, Tumble +2||Stagger

9th|Drunken Master 3|
+7|
+11|
+11|
+5|Disguise +1, Bluff +1, Tumble +1, Concentration +1|Snap Kick|Swaying Waist

10th|Drunken Master 4|
+8|
+12|
+12|
+5|Bluff +1, Tumble +1, Concentration +2||AC bonus +1, Improved Improvised Weapons

11th|Drunken Master 5|
+8|
+12|
+12|
+5|Disguise +1, Bluff +1, Tumble +1, Concentration +1||Greater Improvised Weapons

12th|Drunken Master 6|
+9|
+13|
+13|
+6|Bluff +1, Tumble +1, Group Fake-Out|Improved Feint(B), Steadfast Determination|

13th|Drunken Master 7|
+9|
+13|
+13|
+6|Disguise +1, Bluff +1, Tumble +1, Concentration +1|Improved Grapple(B)|

14th|Chameleon 1|
+9|
+13|
+13|
+6|Bluff +1, Disguise +3||Aptitude Focus 1/day (+2)

15th|Chameleon 2|
+10|
+13|
+13|
+6|Bluff +1, Disguise +3|Shock Trooper|Bonus Feat

16th|Chameleon 3|
+11|
+14|
+14|
+7|Bluff +1, Disguise +3||Mimic Class Feature 1/day

17th|Chameleon 4|
+12|
+14|
+14|
+7|Bluff +1, Disguise +3||Ability Boon +2

18th|Chameleon 5|
+12|
+14|
+14|
+7|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Concentration +2|Martial Study(Diamond Mind, Intuitive Strike)|Aptitude Focus 2/day (+4)

19th|Chameleon 6|
+13|
+15|
+15|
+8|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Concentration +2||Mimic Class Feature 2/day

20th|Chameleon 7|
+14|
+15|
+15|
+8|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Concentration +2||Ability Boon +4, Double Aptitude[/table]

Alternate Class Features/Variant Classes Used:
Ranger:
Urban Ranger (UA): Trade Knowledge(nature), Knowledge(dungeoneering), and Survival for Gather Information, Knowledge(local), and Sense Motive, trade Track for Urban Tracking
Skilled City Dweller (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)): Trade Ride for Tumble
Rival Organization (same source): Trade favored enemy for a rival organization, gain bonuses to skills and AC against them
Voice of the City (same source): Trade wild empathy for ability to communicate with people who speak different languages

Monk:
Overwhelming Attack Fighting Style (UA): Different bonus feat progression and related skill bonus

Chameleon Spells per day
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

14th|4|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|4|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|4|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|4|4|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|4|4|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-

19th|4|4|4|3|1|-|-|-|-|-

20th|4|4|4|4|2|0|-|-|-|-[/table]

Note: Does not include bonus spells

Build Discussion:

You start out, a poor hard-up Mongrelfolk Urban Ranger with a hatred for the decadent Drunken Masters who make a habit of abusing the homeless, and some rather odd skill choices. Well, you're an odd person. Your odd skill choices are a reasonable investment given what an Able Learner you are (you are, after all, humanoid(human)) and some of them, like Tumble, are actually useful. Gather Information lets you find people in the city with your Urban Tracking abilities, and you can understand these people with Voice of the City. Rival Organization(Drunken Masters) compensates neatly for your low ranks in Bluff, making you acceptably good at lying to those you want to train you.

Your levels of Monk give you fists to fight with, flurry to flurry with, and Power Attack, which because you started out as a Ranger you can actually use. Improved Bull Rush is a useful prerequisite. You're probably best off two-handing a quarterstaff at this point. Despite your Monk's AC bonus you probably shouldn't go unarmored, but since you're still proficient in light armor you don't have to.

Your next two ranger levels give you two-weapon fighting and endurance, the first a situationally useful combat option for low-AC, no-DR targets, the second a useful prerequisite.

With +4 BAB in hand, you progress to Fist of the Forest. Finally your Mongrelfolk +4 Con is useful, as you can now add it to AC, potentially discarding your armor. Your feral trance is also a nice combat option. This is the only point in the build where you'll want to ask your DM for a refluff, taking Fist of the Forest and its associated organization to a more urban theme. Your code of conduct is exactly the same, and even makes more sense than the default: few animals steal food to survive, but as a Fist of the Homeless it makes sense. Note that you will have to steal or beg for your booze, which just makes you more endearing.

Now that you've sworn to be a drunken hobo or lose your class features, why not get drunk? Tricking your way in to the Drunken Masters is not likely to be difficult, they're not by nature a suspicious bunch. Tell them you're any race you want to be, use disguise if you really feel pressed, but don't worry: you're a mongrelfolk. According to Races of Destiny, you look like you could be anybody.

As a Drunken Master you begin to acquire one of the most important aspects of your build: versatility. Drink Like a Demon is not just a way to boost your Str. It is not just a way to boost your Con. It is a way to be whatever you need to be for the fight. Need to deal a lot of damage in a hurry? Be an angry drunk. The damage bonus you get from improvised weapons lets your two-handed table be an acceptably dangerous attack. Need to be tough? Drink to your health as a quiet drunk, and your hit points and AC rise. Your two-handed table, according to the rules in Complete Warrior, gives you a +2 shield bonus to AC. This is without using it as a tower shield, which becomes an option at fourth level (though potentially a suboptimal one depending on how your DM rules "as a tower shield": do you need proficiency? Do you get an armor check penalty? Do you lose your unarmored bonus to AC?). In any case the shield usage bypasses these concerns. Other improvised weapon uses offer even more versatility: nearby objects can let you entangle your enemies, push them around, or give you reach.

Swagger extends the reach of your fast movement-boosted charges, and with Snap Kick you're still making two attacks on a charge, a nice mini-pounce. Snap Kick also lets you make two attacks in the same round that you drink, in case you need to buff up in a hurry, and adds an attack to your full attack if you want to be really reckless. While you can't flurry with improvised weapons, this gives you an equivalent option should you want it. Swaying waist and your improving AC bonus increases your effectiveness as a quiet drunk, and Steadfast Determination adds to the quiet drunk's resilience. Improved Grapple is an interesting option as an angry drunk.

At level 13, most melee builds slow down. However, you haven't been taking those ranks in disguise for nothing, and now you have enough of them to take Chameleon. Your two main themes, versatility and stat-boosting, are enhanced and extended, while Chameleon spells bring new tricks to the fore. While low-level spells might not be a big deal for a serious caster, you can borrow spells off anyone's list. Your drunkenness means you won't want to use your arcane spells in combat, but they still make a nice buff suite, with Alter Self being both a good buff and a substantial Disguise boost. Divine spells will be useful in combat. You'll want a Wis item to cast them properly, which likely won't stack with your Fist of the Forest AC bonus unless you have a lenient DM. If you can't acquire a Wis item, your Chameleon bonus will be high enough to make casting possible, if not practical. You have an exceptionally wide array of spell choices, some of which are quite nice: Hunter's Eye gives sneak attack damage that scales with your rapidly-scaling chameleon caster level, which you can make use of either in a flank or with Improved Feint and Group Fake-Out. Take Craven as your daily bonus feat if you really want to optimize this damage.

Speaking of your bonus feat, perhaps you regret losing some of the higher level Drunken Master abilities like Medicinal Purposes? Well, if you really want it take Poison Healer as your bonus feat and get a potentially superior benefit when in quiet drunk mode. Similarly, breathing fire can be replicated with spells. You only miss out on the corkscrew charge, but there's quite a lot you gain, even from just the variable bonus feat. Before level 15 you can use the bonus feat to get Shock Trooper for a nice buff to your angry drunk mode. On a day when you expect to fight medium size foes without absurd strength, Scorpion's Grasp lets you grapple them efficiently. Use the feat for interesting combat options, impersonation of foes, maneuvers, whatever you want.

At higher levels your spells can patch up your BAB for a few fights a day (Divine Power) and let you enchant your improvised weapon/shield (Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment). Gain more AC for quiet mode with Barkskin and Shield of Faith. You are a Drunken Master and a Chameleon. You can wield anything you find, cast any low-level spell in the game, and pick and choose your stats. You scream versatility.

As said earlier, your themes are versatility and stat boosts. How high can you boost stats? well, at level 20 your Str and Con are normally 18. Stick on a Manual +4, +6 enhancement, your Chameleon bonus of +4, and your Chameleon imitation-rage for another +4. Then drink yourself into a stupor. Without Int and Cha boosting items you can manage to drink up another 10 points of Str or Con while still being as intelligent as the party Fleshraker. This gives Str or Con of 46, depending on whether you feel angry or quiet. Not bad. Even when quiet, Martial Study for Insightful Strike gives you a once per encounter chance to add this +18 and your reasonable ranks in Concentration to damage, which Snap kick lets you pair with another traditional attack.

Equipment wish-list and Variants:
Monks are MAD, you are unfortunately MADDER. A Belt of Magnificence would not go amiss. Even the Cha boost goes to use: in addition to helping you deceive those pestilential Drunken Masters, a higher Cha also allows a deeper drunken stupor. Beyond this, you can take the typical Drunken Master optimization route and get some source of infinite booze and an enchanted adamantine table if you really feel inclined. Having enough booze is very important, as keeping constantly drunk is the best way to get the maximum you can out of your angry and quiet modes.

If your DM is uncomfortable with you fighting with Int 2, shift two points out of Charisma and put them somewhere more useful, since you won't be able to drink them away.

If your DM allows Dragon Material, get Power Attack for your Ranger Combat Style and be a Cobra Strike Monk, taking Evasive Reflexes for an interesting way to make use of your high quiet drunk AC.

Another variant involves swapping Chameleon 3-7 for Stoneblessed 3 and Deepwarden 2, possibly taken earlier in the build. While less versatile and less capable of infiltrating your hated enemies, you still gain some Con and gain a huge boost to your quiet mode with Deepwarden's AC bonus. The BAB is better too.

Sources:
Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Complete Champion
Complete Warrior
PHB
Player's Handbook II
Races of Destiny
Tome of Battle
Unearthed Arcana

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:11 PM

I tend to repeat myself on this: dragons are always relevant.
Specially when they are drunk.

Eric Redscale
Human Dragonfire Adept 7/Disciple of the Eye 2/Initiate of Draconic Mysteris 1/Drunken Master 10

Ever since I was a little boy, I'd heard tell of dragons. Massive creatures that leave men shaking as they blow fire from their snouts, leaving whole kingdoms in ruin. While that was impressive, it wasn't even the best part. Now the treasure...that was the good stuff.

I studied them, revered them, worshipped the things. Sure enough, over time, I started to become like them. My skin thickened, I found myself able to belch a few plumes of smoke, and I was able to learn a few arcane mutterings here and there. But it wasn't enough; I wanted the big time--I wanted to fly.

Try as I might, I couldn't master it. Broken bone after broken bone, I got closer to the sky, but to no avail. However, I never gave up. I kept trying again and again, and eventually, I found myself lifting off the ground. I was flying, truly flying. For a while, life was good...until they found me.

They came to me in human form, offered me a job. They promised me that I could learn more--that I could become more. They taught me lost arts that no humans knew, and that's when it became clear. I was working for real honest-to-Bahamut dragons. But I was doing their dirty work. Stealing, trespassing, and remotely viewing places I should never have been. I saw things nobody should ever have seen, things that I can't unsee. From outside my own body, I watched them performing a bizarre ritual over me, forced to concentrate on the spectacle that was my torture the entire time. I still see it every time I close my eyes.

I ran. There was nothing else to do--I couldn't bear it anymore. I hid out in every bar I could find, waiting for the day they would find me, knowing that it was inevitable. What I didn't know was which one of them would find me. Luckily, it was Gnarlfang.

Gnarlfang was the oldest of the dragons, and he cared little for the schemes and machinations of his younger kin. Instead, all he cared about was drinking. He showed me many mixed drinks that he had sampled around the world, from the mundane to the impossible. Furthermore, he gave me my first taste of dragonsblood. Pure vodka mixed with one drop of a dragon's blood, it burned like fire the whole way down my throat. Gnarlfang poured me glass after glass, gladly pricking his claw to continue our binge.

The next morning, my world shook until it almost shattered. However, I felt strangely better for it--stronger, even. Gnarlfang took me under his wing (quite literally) and taught me how to use the power of alcohol to strengthen my techniques. Eventually, I even learned how to spew forth the hottest fire I had ever encountered--hotter even than the pathetic dragons that had attempted to lord their fiery breath over me before. He also taught me how to scare lesser creatures, a tactic that resulted in many laughs and free drinks for the both of us.

I had wanted to be a dragon all my life, and had nearly lost my life to do so. Now, however, I saw that it had all been worth it. I was stronger than I had ever been, a force to be feared. Nothing could stop me. It was time for revenge...right after this last shot.

Eric Redscale
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Dragonfire Adept 1|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Concentration 4, Jump 4, Know (arcana) 2, Know (religion) 2, Spot 4|Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Dragontouched|Breath weapon 1d6, Dragontouched, least invocations

2nd|Dragonfire Adept 2|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Concentration 5, Jump 5, Know (arcana) 3, Know (religion) 2, Spot 5||Breath effect (sickening breath), scales +2

3rd|Dragonfire Adept 3|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Concentration 6, Jump 6, Know (arcana) 3, Know (religion) 3, Spot 6|Power Attack|Breath weapon 2d6

4th|Dragonfire Adept 4|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Concentration 7, Jump 7, Know (arcana) 4, Know (religion) 3, Spot 7||Dragonkin

5th|Dragonfire Adept 5|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Concentration 8, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 4, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8||Breath weapon 3d6, Breath effect (slow breath)

6th|Dragonfire Adept 6|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Concentration 8, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic)|Alertness|DR 2/magic, lesser invocations

7th|Dragonfire Adept 7|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Concentration 8, Intimidate 4, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic)||Breath weapon 4d6

8th|Disciple of the Eye 1|
+3|
+7|
+4|
+7|Concentration 8, Intimidate 6, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 2||Fast movement, flurry of blows, wandering eyes

9th|Disciple of the Eye 2|
+4|
+8|
+5|
+8|Concentration 8, Intimidate 8, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 4|Great Fortitude|Frightful Attack, natural armor +1

10th|Initiate of Draconic Mysteries 1|
+4|
+10|
+7|
+10|Concentration 8, Intimidate 8, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 8||evasion

11th|Drunken Master 1|
+4|
+12|
+9|
+10|Concentration 8, Intimidate 9, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 10||Drink Like a Demon, improvised weapons

12th|Drunken Master 2|
+5|
+13|
+10|
+10|Concentration 8, Intimidate 10, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 12|Entangling Exhalation|Stagger

13th|Drunken Master 3|
+6/+1|
+13|
+10|
+11|Concentration 8, Intimidate 11, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 14||Swaying Waist

14th|Drunken Master 4|
+7/+2|
+14|
+11|
+11|Concentration 8, Intimidate 12, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 16||AC bonus +1, improved improvised weapons

15th|Drunken Master 5|
+7/+2|
+14|
+11|
+11|Concentration 8, Intimidate 12, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 18, Never Outnumbered|Imperious Command|Greater Improvised Weapons

16th|Drunken Master 6|
+8/+3|
+15|
+12|
+12|Concentration 9, Intimidate 13, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 19, Never Outnumbered|Improved Feint|Improved Feint

17th|Drunken Master 7|
+9/+4|
+15|
+12|
+12|Concentration 10, Intimidate 14, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 20, Never Outnumbered|Improved Grapple|Improved Grapple

18th|Drunken Master 8|
+10/+5|
+16|
+13|
+12|Concentration 11, Intimidate 15, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 21, Never Outnumbered|Frightful Presence|For medicinal purposes

19th|Drunken Master 9|
+10/+5|
+16|
+13|
+13|Concentration 12, Intimidate 16, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 22, Never Outnumbered||AC bonus +2, corkscrew rush, superior improvised weapons

20th|Drunken Master 10|
+11/+6/+1|
+17|
+14|
+13|Concentration 13, Intimidate 17, Jump 8, Know (arcana) 6, Know (religion) 4, Spot 8, Speak Language (Draconic), Tumble 23, Never Outnumbered||Breath of Flame[/table]

Attributes

STR: 24 [+7] (13 base+6 enhancement+5 tome)
DEX: 16 [+3] (10 base+6 enhancement)
CON: 32 [+11] (16 base+5 levels+6 enhancement+5 tome)
INT: 21 [+5] (10 base+6 enhancement+5 tome)
WIS: 21 [+5] (11 base+6 enhancement+4 tome)
CHA: 26 [+8] (16 base+6 enhancement+4 tome)

Invocations Known

Least Invocations: Breath of the Night, Endure Exposure
Lesser Invocations: Draconic Flight

Using the Secret Ingredient

Drink Like a Demon: The trickiest part of this class feature is the way it decreases both INT and WIS, meaning that you need at least a 21 in both to remain conscious with 10 drinks in you. Eric uses items to ensure that he can stock up on brew. Furthermore, most characters will most likely choose to boost STR in order to pump to-hit and damage. While Eric can still do so, he will usually choose instead to boost CON in order to gain more HP and a higher saving throw on his breath weapon (and breath effects). Furthermore, Eric will keep drinking in the middle of the fight until he has the full 10 drinks in him. At that point, he will unleash his Breath of Fire as a series of 10 free actions to deal 30d12 of fire damage in one round, in addition to his normal breath weapon or a breath effect.
Improvised Weapons: Though Eric can use his breath effect at will, sometimes things will prevent him from doing so (especially tight quarters). When this happens, he will take to the skies, grabbing anything he can find to make diving charge attacks for double damage. However, the non-proficiency penalty and Eric's low BAB mean that this will remain his secondary tactic.
Stagger: the ability to charge without the straight line restriction means a +2 bonus to attacks, which offsets half of the penalty for using improvised weapons. Also, the laughably easy DC 15 Tumble check to stop AoOs gives Eric a way to cut across a battlefield full of foes with no worries, allowing him to get into prime position for his breath weapon.
Swaying Waist: this bonus to AC stacks with the bonus from Dodge as well as Eric's bonuses to natural armor from Dragonfire Adept as well as Disciple of the Eye.
AC bonus: As above, this bonus stacks with Eric's other bonuses to provide him an extra boost of survivability.
Improved Feint: Eric can render an opponent flat-footed in order to have a better chance of hitting (even with his non-proficiency penalty for improvised weapons).
Improved Grapple: Eric can pin an enemy down to ensure that it fails Reflex saves against his breath weapon, breath effects, and his breath of fire.
For medicinal purposes: Not only can Eric use alcohol to harm his enemies, but he can use it to keep himself alive. Furthermore, the small amount of damage reduction provided by his Dragonfire Adept levels ensures that his healing will not be immediately undone by a series of melee attacks, but allows him to keep his hit points for longer.
Corkscrew Rush: Most Drunken Masters will probably have a low saving throw for this bull rush because the alcohol in their system lowers their WIS modifier. However, Eric makes use of Breath of Flame as frequently as possible, which depletes his blood alcohol content and brings his WIS modifier back to normal. Because of this, corkscrew rush is a perfect feature to use immediately after he unleashes his full breath of flame, adding his full WIS modifier to the save.
Breath of Flame: While 3d12 isn't a massive breath weapon, the fact that this can be used as a free action is huge. Eric can unleash his DFA breath weapon, immediately followed by 10 free actions to deal up to 30d12 fire damage. Also, he can make sure his DFA breath weapon is an Entangling Exhalation or Slow Breath to ensure that his foes receive a penalty on their Reflex saves (along with cowering or being shaken by his intimidation skills/fearful presence). 30d12 is only decent damage when you can ensure that your enemies are taking the full amount, and Eric has that ability.

Tactics by Level

Levels 1-5: At these levels, Eric learns the bread and butter of his career--Sickening Breath and Slow Breath. The ability to sicken a 20-ft cone of foes for a guaranteed round (and a possible two rounds) is a valuable debuff. It makes your friends harder to hit, and makes your foes more susceptible to effects that require saves (spells, invocations, breath weapons, etc.). Slow breath is great against melee foes, though doesn't really come into its own until later levels. The Endure Exposure invocation ensures that you can make your allies immune to your breath weapon before they leap into the fray.
Levels 6-10: This is the point where slow breath begins to shine. You rob melee brutes of their full attacks (or spellcasters of their full-round casting time spells). The Breath of Night invocation allows you to spam [I]fog cloud, greatly increasing your battlefield control. Also, Eric gains a huge mobility boost through the at-will invocation Draconic Flight. Now you can soar above the battlefield, raining down fiery death. Furthermore, your levels in Disciple of the Eye not only provide the flurry of blows needed for entry into Drunken Master, but make you a competent scout--your fast movement and evasion, coupled with wandering eyes, provides you with up to 20 rounds of arcane eye per day, divided as you see fit.
Levels 11-15: Entry into Drunken Master means you are now a raging CONbeast. Drink like a demon boosts your HP and your breath weapon, while the various bonuses to AC, charging, and improvised weapons give you another tactic to utilize when breath weapons and invocations just won't cut it.
Levels 16-20: Frightful Presence ensures that you can demotivate large numbers of enemies at once, while Improved Grapple allows you to focus on one enemy and pin them down, leaving them all but helpless against your breath weapon. As a capstone, Eric gains the ability to convert alcohol into a fiery breath that puts his at-will breath weapon to shame. Between his ability to fly, battlefield control, frightful presence, and his massive breath weapon, Eric is as close to a dragon as any human can hope to become.

Suggested Gear

+6 Belt of Magnificence: Not only does this boost the attributes that Eric will be using (STR, CON, and CHA), but it helps pump his INT and WIS over 20 to ensure that he can use Drink Like a Demon to the Fullest.
Dragon Spirit Cincture: added breath weapon damage is always welcome, especially on a character that will be spamming his breath weapon left and right.
Tomes, tomes, and more tomes: inherent bonuses are helpful, especially when they mean that your INT and WIS are high enough to use Drink Like a Demon to its fullest.
Fearsome armor: demoralizing foes as a move action means that you can make a foe cower (thereby leaving it shaken for the next round), sicken it with a breath effect, and drop a massive Breath of Flame on it, all in the same round. With the Never Outnumbered skill trick, you can demoralize all foes within 10 feet, catching them in your fiery cone.

Sources

Dragon Magic: Dragonfire Adept, Dragontouched
Races of the Dragon: Disciple of the Eye, Entangling Exhalation
Draconomicon: Initiate of Draconic Mysteries, Frightful Presence
Complete Warrior: Drunken Master
PHB: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Power Attack, Alertness, Great Fortitude, Improved Feint, Improved Grapple
Drow of the Underdark: Imperious Command, Fearsome armor
Magic Item Compendium: items, but of course

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:12 PM

Simon says: everybody grab a glass of wine!

Simon the Incompetent Archer

Background

Simon was raised as a servant in a castle by the head of the chamber maids. His father died at sea before he was born and his mother died giving birth to him. It wasn’t a terrible life but Simon was a master of mischief and eventually become too much of a trouble for those around him. The castle folk sent him off to learn religion and mend his ways at a monastery. His quickness and common sense allowed him to excel in all aspects of life in the monastery…except for the matter of discipline. He soon grew tired of the rules and taboos. He ended up running away from the monastery with a rather fetching serving girl to seek adventure and glory. He started training as a Soulknife and eventually learned the ways of the Soulbow learning the ability to create blades and arrows out of thin air using only the power of his mind. He became a fairly competent archer selling his services to local militias and other possibly less worthy causes, while living a life of lovely bliss with fine Delilah, the serving girl he ran away with from the monastery.

Things were going great (or so he thought) until he came home one evening to find a note from the little harlot saying that she left him to run away with a rich noble boy and that she had been cheating on him for some time. Simon was never afraid of a little drinking and being rather angry and depressed started to find solace in mugs of ale. He drank in the morning, he drank for lunch, he drank for a snack…the next few months became a blur of fuzzy memories of drinking, fighting, and partying.

One night he was drinking heavily in a bar, as usual, and he tried to pick a fight with a new, and rather loud, gentleman who was just as deep in the cups as he was. After being planted on his rear quite a few times the two were soon drinking together and swapping drunken stories of bar fights gone right. Simon learned a few new moves to use in bar fights and a larger appreciation for the glories and wonders of alcohol. The days went along like this for some time until he heard rumors that some young noble lord was getting married to some common girl and eventually it got around that it was the same Delilah that had broken his heart and destroyed his life.

With a renewed sense of rage Simon drunk himself into a stupor and in the dead of night snuck into the local militia’s archer range to take out his frustrations. After about thirty minutes of hitting nothing but air and the sides of barns Simon’s anger and frustration built to unholy heights. With a load cry of dismay and hate he bodily heaved a mind arrow at a target. Forsaking his psionic training and relying only on his own physical strength he threw the arrow towards the manifestation of years of loathing. Whether it was luck, destiny, or pure skill, the arrow hit the target dead center and split the unsuspecting wood and hay target in half. Shocked and awed by this new development Simon tried to recreate the feat but was unable to reach quite the same devastating impact that night. He grew to enjoy the physical aspects of throwing and stabbing with arrows much more than the pansy mind tricks of shooting them. There is a joy in feeling the physicality of using your own muscles and feeling a target quiver with the impact of your blows.

For the next couple years he trained his new throwing technique eventually becoming able to throw multiple arrows with one toss and hitting a targets weakest spots to devastating effects. He continued his drinking and learned to brew and distill his own booze carrying the finest of liquor wherever he went.
Progression:

Human, Humanoid (human)
32 point buy
Str: 10, Dex: 16, Con:12, Int: 14, Wis: 16, Cha: 8
Ending Stats
Str: 10(16), Dex: 26(32), Con:16(22), Int: 14(20), Wis: 20(26), Cha: 8(14)
{table=head]ECL|Class|Base Attack |Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Monk (Cobra Strike) 1|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2| (28) Concentration 4, Jump 4, Listen 4, Sense Motive 4, Sleight of hand 2 (cc), Spot 4, Tumble 4|Dodge(b), Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot(b) |AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
2nd|Monk 2|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3| (7) Balance 1, Concentration 1, Jump 1, Listen 1, Sense Motive 1, Spot 4, Tumble 4|Deflect Arrows(b) |Evasion

3rd|Soulknife 1|
+1|
+3|
+5|
+5| (7) Autohypnosis 2, Concentration 1, Listen 1, Sleight of hand 1 (cc), Spot 1|Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (mind blade) |Mind Blade, Hidden Talent (Minor Creation, psionic)

4th|Soulknife 2|
+2|
+3|
+6|
+6| (7) Autohypnosis 3, Concentration 1, Listen 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1| |Throw Mind Blade

5th|Soulknife 3|
+3|
+4|
+6|
+6| (7) Autohypnosis 3, Concentration 1, Sleight of hand 1 (cc), Spot 1|Precise Shot (b)|

6th|Soulbow 1|
+3|
+4|
+8|
+8| (7) Autohypnosis 1, Concentration 1, Listen 2, Spot 1, Tumble 2|Superior Unarmed Strike, Far shot(b)|Mind arrow

7th|Drunken Master 1|
+3|
+6|
+10|
+8| (7) Bluff 6, Listen 1||Drink like a demon, Improvised Weapons

8th|Master Thrower 1|
+4|
+6|
+12|
+8| (7) Bluff 3, Concentration 1, Listen 1, Spot 2|Quick Draw(b)|Palm Throw

9th| Master Thrower 2|
+5|
+6|
+13|
+8| (7) Bluff 3, Concentration 2, Listen 1, Spot 1|Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) |Improved Evasion

10th|Master Thrower 3|
+6|
+7|
+13|
+9| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1, Listen 1, Sleight of hand 1, Spot 1, Skill trick: Group Fake out||Defensive Throw

11th|Master Thrower 4|
+7|
+7|
+14|
+9| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1, Listen 1, Sleight of hand 1, Spot 1, Skill Trick: Point it Out|Snatch Arrows(b)|
12th|Master Thrower 5|
+8|
+7|
+14|
+9| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1, Listen 1, Sleight of hand 1, Spot 1, Skill trick: Clarity of Vision|Improved Two-weapon Fighting| Weak Spot

13th|Drunken Master 2|
+9|
+8|
+15|
+9|(7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)| |Stagger

14th|Drunken Master 3|
+10|
+8|
+15|
+10| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)||Swaying Waist

15th|Drunken Master 4|
+11|
+9|
+16|
+10| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)|Rapid Shot|AC Bonus +1, Improved Improvised Weapons

16th|Drunken Master 5|
+11|
+9|
+16|
+10| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)| |Greater Improvised Weapons

17th|Drunken Master 6|
+12|
+10|
+17|
+11|(7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)|Improved Feint(b)|

18th|Drunken Master 7|
+13|
+10|
+17|
+11| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)|Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Grapple(b)|

19th|Drunken Master 8|
+14|
+11|
+18|
+11| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)| |For medicinal purposes

20th|Drunken Master 9|
+14|
+11|
+18|
+12| (7) Bluff 1, Concentration 1 (cc), Craft: Booze 1, Listen 1, Spot 1 (cc)||AC Bonus +2, Corkscrew Rush, Superior Improvised Weapons [/table]

Build Explanation and Rules Assumptions

Alternate Class Features:
Cobra Strike variant monk at level one and abandons the fighting style at level 2
Uses the Hidden talent and bonus feat options for the Soulknife from The Mind’s Eye: Expanded Classes, Part 1 ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a ).

Build Specifics:
The trick here is to use mind arrows as improvised thrown weapons. The Soulbow can create mind arrows as free actions that are identical to arrows and count as magical for bypassing DR. These arrows do not “have” to be fired. Arrows can be wielded as improvised weapons. Throwing the arrows as improvised thrown weapons allows Simon to benefit from the Drunken Master improvised weapon rules with an unlimited supply of ammo. His weapon focus and proficiency (mind blade) feats also apply to his mind arrows. The build assumes that the weapon proficiency does not apply to the mind arrows when they are not “shot” so Simon takes a -4 attack penalty when using them differently. You can’t normally have weapon proficiency with arrows since they are ammunition so I really do not know what it means to have proficiency with mind arrows, a DM could see it as working with melee and thrown combat (but the build does not assume this). His weapon focus feat however still works as the feat states all attacks made with the weapon. As improvised thrown weapons that he has weapon focus in he can apply the Master Thrower’s thrown weapon tricks with the mind arrows, specifically palm throw and weak spot. He qualifies for Master Thrower with weapon focus mind blade, which can be thrown.

At ECL 20

Monk 2, Soulknife 3, Soulbow 1, Master Thrower 5, Drunken Master 9
Human, Medium Humanoid (human)
Lawful Neutral
Hit Dice: 2d8+12 + 3d10+18 +1d10+6 +5d8+30 +9d8+54 (214 hp)
Initiative: +11
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 47 (touch: 34, flat-footed: 36) {8(armor)+ 11(dex)+ 8(wis)+ 2(Drunken Master)+3(deflection)+5(natural armor) } and +2 dodge bonus against 1 target
Base Attack/Grapple: +14/+21
Attack: Mind arrow (ranged) +29 ranged 165ft/increment (1d8 + 11)
or Mind Arrow (thrown) +25 ranged touch 20ft/increment (3d6+1d12 +3)x2 {palm throw, weak spot}
or Mind Arrow (melee) +17 melee (3d6+1d12 +6)
or Unarmed (melee) +20 melee (3d6 +6)
note: +1 attack/damage with ranged weapons within 30ft.
Full Attack: Mind arrow (ranged) +27/+27/+22/+17 ranged 165ft/increment (1d8 + 11)
or Mind Arrow (thrown) +21/+21/+21/+16/+16/+11/+11 ranged touch 20ft/increment (3d6+1d12 +3)x2 {palm throw, weak spot}
or Mind Arrow (melee) +15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5 melee (3d6+1d12 +6)
or Unarmed (melee) +18/+18/+13/+8 melee (3d6 +6), flurry of blows
note: +1 attack/damage with ranged weapons within 30ft.
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Attack options: Corkscrew Rush, Improvised Weapons (Greater, Improved, Superior), Palm Throw, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Stagger, Throw mind blade, Weak Spot, Defensive Throw
Special Actions: drink like a demon, for medicinal purposes, mind arrow, mind blade, improved evasion
Psionics: 2 PP, Minor Creation, psionic
Saves: Fort +23, Ref +33, Will +23
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 32, Con 22, Int 20, Wis 26, Cha 14
Skills: Autohypnosis +17, Balance +14, Bluff +25, Concentration +29, Craft: Booze +13, Jump +10, Listen +31, Sense Motive +13, Sleight of hand +20, Spot +31, Tumble +21
Skill Tricks: Clarity of Vision, Group Fake Out, Point it Out

Feats: Dodge(b), Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot(b), Deflect Arrows(b), Far shot(b), Weapon Focus (Mind blade)(b), Precise shot(b), Two-weapon Fighting, Quick Draw(b), Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Feint(b), Improved Grapple(b), Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Superior Unarmed Strike, Rapid Shot
Challenge Rating: 20

Possessions: Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Belt of Magnificence +6, Bracers of Armor +8, Manual of Bodily Health +4, Manual of Quickness Action +5, Psychoactive Skin of the Hero, Tome of Understanding +4, 10 bottles of fine liquor, keg

Tactics

Simon tries to stay at range and pepper targets with mind arrows. At long range he can fire mind arrows normally and at close to medium ranges he can throw mind arrows for a large amount of damage. Palm throw allows him to throw two arrows with one attack roll and weak spot allows him to make these attacks as touch attacks. Weak spot helps to alleviate the problem of having a fairly low attack bonus from attacking with an improvised weapon. Palm throw doubles the base damage of the arrows which is fairly high as drunken master improvised weapons, ending with essentially 6d6+2d12+6 at level 20. Each attack roll averages 40 damage (42 with point blank shot), and with 7 touch attacks he will average almost 300 damage a round if they all hit. He has Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural attack to get to 3d6 unarmed strike damage. Many high level opponents are fairly large and have very low touch ac’s. At high levels he has the psychoactive skin of the hero to add a +3 enhancement bonus to attack and damage with any weapon.

If needed he can feint in combat to deny a target its dexterity bonus if he faces a target with a high touch ac and/or is smaller than medium size. He has the Group Fake Out skill trick to feint against multiple people in combat if needed.

If your DM allows you to dual wield fired mind arrows Simon can get 7 attacks at long range with fired mind arrows until he gets into throwing range, it doesn’t say you can’t and you only need one hand free to fire one.

He can use defensive throw to easily make thrown attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity.
He has a very high AC from having a high dexterity and wisdom, reaching 49 with the dodge bonus from swaying waist. He carries no weapons since he can create arrows at will.

He also has fairly high senses with a +31 listen and spot checks at level 20. With the Point it Out skill trick he can allow allies another chance to spot something and with Clarity of Vision he can see invisible creatures for a round if needed.

Sweet Spot and Ability Growth:

The milestones for the build are levels 8, 12, and 20.
The build can start throwing mind arrows as its main attack at level 8 with the first level of Master Thrower and palm throw. He has the Drunken Master improvised weapons netting him palm throw attacks of 1d8+1d4 x2.

At level 12 he gets Weak Spot allowing him to hit targets of his own size or larger much easier. This is when the build gets powerful utilizing weak spot and two-weapon fighting to overcome the low base attack and improvised weapon penalties. He’ll be palm throwing touch attacks doing 2d8+1d4 x2 damage (23 average with 4 ranged touch attacks), which is respectable at level 12.

At Level 20 his damage is finalized with Superior improvised weapons at 3d6+1d12+bonuses x2.

The early levels are a bit rough since Simon has a rather low base attack. At early levels he would do best two-weapon fighting with the mind blade and unarmed strikes or at range throwing the mind blade or picking up a ranged weapon.

Once he hits level 6 he can always become a serviceable archer firing the mind arrows.

At ECL 8

Monk 2, Soulknife 3, Soulbow 1, Master Thrower 1, Drunken Master 1
Human, Medium Humanoid (human)
Lawful Neutral
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 + 3d10+3 +1d10+1 +1d8+1 +1d8+1 (48 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 24 (touch: 21, flat-footed: 19) {3(armor)+ 5(dex)+ 4(wis)+2(deflection) } and +1 dodge bonus against 1 target
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+4
Attack: Mind arrow (ranged) +10 ranged 165ft/increment (1d8 + 4)
or Mind Arrow (thrown) +6 ranged 20ft/increment (1d8+1d4)x2 {palm throw}
or Mind Arrow (melee) +1 melee (1d8+1d4)
or Unarmed (melee) +4 melee (1d8)
note: +1 attack/damage with ranged weapons within 30ft.
Full Attack: Mind arrow (ranged) +10 ranged 165ft/increment (1d8 + 4)
or Mind Arrow (thrown) +4/+4 ranged 20ft/increment (1d8+1d4)x2 {palm throw}
or Mind Arrow (melee) +1 melee (1d8+1d4)
or Unarmed (melee) +2/+2 (1d8), flurry of blows
note: +1 attack/damage with ranged weapons within 30ft.
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Attack options: Improvised Weapons, Palm Throw, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Throw mind blade
Special Actions: drink like a demon, mind arrow, mind blade
Psionics: 2 PP, Minor Creation, psionic
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +17, Will +12
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 8
Skills: Autohypnosis +13, Balance +8, Bluff +8, Concentration +11, Jump +7, Listen +15, Sense Motive +9, Sleight of hand +11, Spot +15, Tumble +15

Feats: Dodge(b), Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot(b), Deflect Arrows(b), Far shot(b), Weapon Focus (Mind blade)(b), Precise shot(b), Two-weapon Fighting, Quick Draw(b), Superior Unarmed Strike
Challenge Rating: 8

Possessions: Bracers of Armor +3, Gloves of Dexterity +2, Periapt of Wisdom +2, Ring of Protection +2, 4 bottles of fine liquor, keg

At ECL 12

Monk 2, Soulknife 3, Soulbow 1, Master Thrower 5, Drunken Master 1
Human, Medium Humanoid (human)
Lawful Neutral
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 + 3d10+3 +1d10+1 +5d8+5 +1d8+1 (70 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 28 (touch: 24, flat-footed: 22) {4(armor)+ 6(dex)+ 5(wis)+3(deflection) } and +1 dodge bonus against 1 target
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+8
Attack: Mind arrow (ranged) +15 ranged 165ft/increment (1d8 + 5)
or Mind Arrow (thrown) +11 ranged touch 20ft/increment (2d8+1d4)x2 {palm throw, weak spot}
or Mind Arrow (melee) +5 melee (2d8+1d4)
or Unarmed (melee) +8 melee (2d8)
note: +1 attack/damage with ranged weapons within 30ft.
Full Attack: Mind arrow (ranged) +15/+10 ranged 165ft/increment (1d8 + 5)
or Mind Arrow (thrown) +9/+9/+4/+4 ranged touch 20ft/increment (2d8+1d4)x2 {palm throw, weak spot}
or Unarmed (melee) +6/+6/+1 melee (2d8), flurry of blows
note: +1 attack/damage with ranged weapons within 30ft.
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Attack options: Improvised Weapons, Palm Throw, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Throw mind blade, Weak Spot
Special Actions: drink like a demon, mind arrow, mind blade, improved evasion, defensive throw
Psionics: 2 PP, Minor Creation, psionic
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +21, Will +9
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 23, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 20, Cha 8
Skills: Autohypnosis +14, Balance +9, Bluff +14, Concentration +16, Jump +7, Listen +20, Sense Motive +10, Sleight of hand +15, Spot +20, Tumble +16
Skill Tricks: Clarity of Vision, Group Fake Out, Point it Out

Feats: Dodge(b), Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot(b), Deflect Arrows(b), Far shot(b), Weapon Focus (Mind blade)(b), Precise shot(b), Two-weapon Fighting, Quick Draw(b), Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Superior Unarmed Strike
Challenge Rating: 12

Possessions: Bracers of Armor +4, Gloves of Dexterity +4, Periapt of Wisdom +4, Ring of Protection +3, 8 bottles of fine liquor, keg

Secret Ingredient: Drunken Master

Simon makes the most of the strange improvised weapon rules doing unarmed strike damage + 1d12 twice with each attack. He can use drink like a demon to improve his HP’s but in general it does not benefit him much. It would have been nice to get breath of flame to use up the charges but Weak Spot is almost necessary to be able to hit anything with the -4 to attack. He can use For medicinal purposes for some healing every day.

Simon also has full ranks in bluff and the skill trick Group Fake Out to make the most out of improved feint, so he has the option to feint in combat against targets with very high touch ac’s.

He carries a keg and plenty of bottles wherever he goes. He can create basic alcohol using minor creation as it is vegetable matter. It creates 1 cubic foot of alcohol that lasts for 1 hour and he can use it twice per day. When alcohol is scarce he creates it in the keg and transfers it to bottles as needed.

Options

You could use flaws to get bonus feats to increase damage, such as shape soulmeld: Sighting gloves and bonus essential.

If you can get an understanding DM to allow either Soulbow or Drunken Master to get rid of the -4 non profiency penalty you may not need Weak spot allowing the build to end with Soulbow 4, Master Thrower 1, Drunken Master 10. Palm throw is fairly essential and Soulbow 2-4 would get you a bonus feat, a +1 magic ability (flaming or any other +1d6 damage would be nice since it is doubled every attack), and close combat shot which says that you don’t provoke when attacking in melee with mind arrows with no mention of the manner of attack, so you can throw in melee. If your DM allows the cheese you could possibly use the Lucky +1 ability to reroll every attack since you get a new mind arrow each time. He would also have breath of flame for a free 3d12 fire cone to use up drink like a demon charges.

Simon is also a prime candidate for vow of poverty since he uses no weapons or armor, if you are playing in an exalted campaign and can deal with the heavy drinking and your vows.

You could transform the build into a melee character stabbing with mind arrows. The ranged build can still throw in melee so the main bonus to doing this would be to raise the damage against targets with high DR or to appease a DM that won’t allow master thrower to work with improvised weapons. Stack strength instead of dex or wis and try to bump your size to increase unarmed/improvised damage. You can scrap master thrower and most of the ranged feats. The two weapon fighting tree with two-weapon defense and rend would be nice. All that you need is Drunken Master, Soulbow 1 to create mind arrows, and Soulknife 2 to qualify for Soulbow. You could go monstrous character with a large race or go with more martial prestige classes. Shou disciple might let you flurry with mind arrows but you won’t be able to get to greater flurry without a lot of effort. The build could fire mind arrows at range until getting into melee range to stab things.

Sources

Compete Psionics (Soulbow)
Complete Scoundrel (Skill tricks)
Complete Warrior (Drunken Master and Master Thrower)
SRD (Monk, variant monk, Soulknife, magic items, feats)
The Mind’s Eye: Expanded Classes, Part 1 ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a ) (Soulknife alternate class features)
Tome of Battle (Superior Unarmed Strike)

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:14 PM

Everybody was kung-fu fighting... those guys were drunk as lightning...
...wait a second, that ain't right.

Laph Roaig

LG Elan

Monk 3/Ardent 2/Swordsage 1/Drunken Master 10/Zerth Cenobite 4

http://www.planetvideo.com.au/blog/2009/01/24/monkey-king-5.jpg

STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 6

WIS gets the level-based stat boosts.
Laph Roaig
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Monk 1|
+0|
+6|
+4|
+4|Balance 4, Concentration 4, Jump 4, Psicraft 2.0, Tumble 4|Improved Unarmed Strike (b), Stunning Fist (b), Great Fortitude|IUS, Bonus Feat (Stunning Fist), Flurry of Blows

2nd|Monk 2|
+1|
+7|
+5|
+5|Balance +1, Jump +1, Psicraft +0.5, Swim +1, Tumble +1|Combat Reflexes (b)|Bonus Feat (Combat Reflexes), Evasion

3rd|Monk 3|
+2|
+7|
+5|
+5|Concentration +1, Jump +1, Psicraft +0.5, Spot +1, Tumble +1|Power Attack|Still Mind, +10' Unarmored Speed Bonus

4th|Ardent 1|
+2|
+7|
+5|
+7|Concentration +1, Tumble +1.0|-|Assume Psionic Mantles: Natural World (also grants Wild Empathy)(CPsi 71), Pain & Suffering (CPsi 71)

5th|Ardent 2|
+3|
+7|
+5|
+8|Concentration +2, Psicraft +1|Ectopic Form: Alabaster Aerial (b) (CPsi 51)|Assume Psionic Mantle: Creation (CPsi 70)

6th|Swordsage 1|
+3|
+7|
+7|
+10|Concentration +1, Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1.0, Tumble +2|Desert Wind Dodge (ToB 29), Weapon Focus: Setting Sun weapons (b)|Quick to Act +1 (ToB 16), Discipline Focus: Setting Sun (ToB 16; cf. ToB 42)

7th|Drunken Master 1|
+3|
+9|
+9|
+10|Concentration +1.0, Jump +1, Listen +1, Tumble +1|-|Drink Like a Demon (CW 28), Improvised Weapons (CW 28)

8th|Drunken Master 2|
+4|
+10|
+10|
+11|Concentration +1.0, Jump +1, Listen +1, Tumble +1|-|Stagger (CW 28)

9th|Zerth Cenobite 1|
+4|
+10|
+12|
+13|Concentration +1, Jump +2, Spot +1, Tumble +1|Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB 33)|Monk Abilities (see note), Temporal Distillation: Move Action (CPsi 43), Psychic Warrior Powers

10th|Drunken Master 3|
+5|
+11|
+12|
+14|Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1.0, Tumble +1|-|Swaying Waist (CW 28)

11th|Drunken Master 4|
+6|
+12|
+13|
+14|Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1.0, Tumble +1|-|AC bonus +1 (CW 28), Improved Improvised Weapons (CW 28)

12th|Drunken Master 5|
+6|
+12|
+13|
+14|Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1.0, Tumble +1|Flying Kick (CW 99)|Greater Improvised Weapons (CW 28)

13th|Zerth Cenobite 2|
+7|
+12|
+14|
+15|Concentration +1, Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Tumble +1|-|Backslip 1/day (CPsi 44)

14th|Drunken Master 6|
+8|
+13|
+15|
+16|Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1.0, Tumble +1|Improved Feint (b)|Bonus Feat (Improved Feint)

15th|Zerth Cenobite 3|
+9|
+14|
+15|
+16|Concentration +1, Jump +1, Listen +1,Spot +1, Tumble +1|Acrobatic Strike (PH2 71)|Timeless Step (CPsi 44)

16th|Zerth Cenobite 4|
+10|
+14|
+16|
+18|Jump +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Tumble +1; Skill Trick: Extreme Leap (CSc 86)|-|Precognition 1/day (CPsi 44)

17th|Drunken Master 7|
+11|
+14|
+16|
+18|Jump +1, Listen +1, Tumble +1; Skill Trick: Acrobatic Backstab (CSc 84)|Improved Grapple (b)|Bonus Feat (Improved Grapple)

18th|Drunken Master 8|
+12|
+15|
+17|
+18|Jump +1, Listen +1, Tumble +1; Skill Trick: Up the Hill (CSc 90)|Brutal Strike (PH2 76)|For Medicinal Purposes (CW 28)

19th|Drunken Master 9|
+12|
+15|
+17|
+19|Jump +2, Listen +2, Tumble +1|-|AC Bonus +2 (CW 28), Corkscrew Rush (CW 28-9), Superior Improvised Weapons (CW 29)

20th|Drunken Master 10|
+13|
+16|
+18|
+19|Jump +1, Listen +1, Tumble +1; Skill Trick: Back on Your Feet (CSc 85)|-|Breath of Flame[/table]
(b) = Bonus Feat
*Note: Listed for completeness only. Assuming the DM follows RAW on Monks multiclassing, this is a dead ability. Because Drunken Master doesn't advance Monk abilities, Laph cannot gain benefit from this; because Laph needed more than one class interspersed between his last Monk level and first Zerth Cenobite level, Monastic Training or similar feats will not fix this without a major reshuffling of class levels that would further delay entrance into the prestige classes. A kind and/or lenient DM may allow the ability to work, but Laph is not predicated on the kindness of DMs.

PSIONIC POWERS:
Level|Power Points|Powers Known
1st|2|-
2nd|2|-
3rd|2|-
4th|5|Metaphysical Claw, Disable
5th|6|Astral Construct
6th|6|-
7th|6|-
8th|6|-
9th|10|Expansion
10th|10|-
11th|10|-
12th|10|-
13th|16|Offensive Precognition
14th|16|-
15th|25|-
16th|36|Dissolving Touch
17th|36|-
18th|36|-
19th|36|-
20th|36|-
The above chart does not take items into account. It's difficult to predict just when a particular stat-boosting item might be available in a given game.

SWORDSAGE MANEUVERS/STANCE
Burning Brand (p52), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (p65), Emerald Razor (p63), Clever Positioning (p70), Drain Vitality (p77), Shadow Jaunt (p79)/Step of the Wind (p74)

STAT INCREASES
[b]Stat|Base|level|enhancement|inherent|total
STR|16|-|5|21
DEX|14|-|5|19
CON|14|-|5|19
INT|12|-|-|12
WIS|14|5|5|24
CHA|6|-|-|6

SUGGESTED GEAR from MiC
Cobra Straps: 1400gp
Panther Mask: 2700gp
Scorpion Kama: 6302gp
(collected equals Gharyn's Monastic Array; +1 Stunning Fist DC and critical hits with Scorpion Kama deliver Stunning Fist)
Manual of Bodily Health +5: 137500gp
Manual of Gainful Exercise +5: 137500gp
Manual of Quickness in Action +5: 137500gp
Tome of Clear Thought +5:137500gp
Amulet of Mighty Fists +5: 150000gp
Ring of Protection +4: 32000gp
Tome of Understanding: 137500gp

BEVERAGE SELECTION (level highlights)

Kvass: 1st level
Laph has above average STR, DEX, CON, and WIS, making him a competent 1st level combatant. His damage output lags a bit behind a real tank-type, but solid saves, a good AC, and his Elan resilience and resistance abilities give him sufficient staying power.

Imperial Stout: 5th level
With Combat Reflexes, Laph is able to defend a given area reasonably well. Because his BAB is starting to lag noticeably, Metaphysical Claw provides an important boost to his combat prowess. Disable allows him to take out multiple, low level, threats from a distance, while the Astral Construct form he's selected gives him another effective way to deal with flyers, along with a built-in flank buddy for himself or the party's Rogue. Power Attacking with his quarterstaff increases his damage output. Combine the share pain ability with his native Elan resiliance, and Laph is tougher to bring down than most enemies anticipate. The speed increase at Monk 3 will prove handy for his development as a charger. At 6th level, he'll see a significant boost to efficiency, with ways of increasing damage, reach, and movement - including a short-range teleport - built into his Swordsage dip, along with the free Weapon Focus in Setting Sun weapons (nunchaku, quarterstaff, short sword, and unarmed strike). It also lets him turn an attack every encounter into a touch attack, reducing the importance of his BAB, and attack something besides the ever-increasing HP totals of his adversaries with a strike targeting STR.

Beaujolais: 10th level
Fun combinations have started to form. The extra move action from Zerth Cenobite provides potential for full attack actions on a charge, which Stagger allows to happen without a straight line, and Step of the Wind allows regardless of terrain. Drink Like a Demon gives a needed boost to STR for better efficiency on hits and damage. Expansion + the extra 5' reach of Burning Brand + Combat Reflexes let Laph work as a battlefield controller, with Swaying Waist making him more difficult to target when he employs this strategy. He has ample Power Points to keep an Astral Construct viable in combat and also use Expansion + Metaphysical Claw to self-buff. Superior Unarmed Strike further improves his ability to keep pace on the damage output. When things really get tough, he can use his ability to create a faux tower shield for cover for himself and - potentially - a downed ally. Out of combat, he's got reliable scouting abilities and excellent mobility.

Blended Whisky: 15th level
Between his innate unarmed strike abilities, his ability to psionically augment those unarmed strikes, and his ever-increasing proficiency with improvised weapons, Laph is increasingly dangerous regardless of circumstance. Flying Kick gives him a solid damage boost on the charge attack that is becoming increasingly important to his fighting technique. Improved Feint helps offset his low BAB, as does Backslip. Acrobatic Strike lets Saph focus his attacks on the most dangerous foe he can reach without needing to stay in one place, which is useful for a charger. With Timeless Step, Laph has an emergency escape clause if the situation is truly dire.

Single Malt: 16th level (sweet spot)
Precognition and Dissolving Touch are the prizes here. Precognition lets Laph retroactively adjust a bad attack roll - or other roll, but most of his other checks are high enough not to be a concern. Dissolving Touch gives his attacks real bite. In addition, Extreme Leap provides better utility for his charge attacks by further augmenting his movement rate.

Everclear: 20th level
With Improved Grapple, combat options further expand; 'expand' is the key word there, as the Expansion power makes this tactic situationally viable. Brutal Strike works equally well on Laph's unarmed strikes and the majority of his improvised weapons to provide a secondary effect to his attacks. This is especially useful combined with Corkscrew Rush, doing good damage as well as forcing multiple saves. Up the Hill and Back on Your Feet further emphasize Laph's superior mobility and help keep him safer. With Breath of Flame, Laph has a better AoE and ranged option, for those circumstances where it's necessary. Assuming he gets the items listed below, his final saves are 17/20/22, without any Cloak/Vest of Resistance.

Mixers: Options
Laph has ridiculously good saves and a ridiculously low BAB for someone who uses charging as his primary shtick. As it is, he addresses the BAB issue by charging, by using Emerald Razor for touch attacks, by using magic items, and by picking up abilities that augment and allow rerolls of his attack rolls. Unearthed Arcana would let him do better. Partial BAB and Saves from Unearthed Arcana would improve his BAB to +15 while normalizing his saves to 14/13/15 after items - much more reasonable overall. While Laph has the prereqs for Practiced Manifester and Snap Kick, he doesn't have the room. With Flaws, he can take Poor Reflexes and Vulnerable at minimal loss in order to rearrange his Feats and squeeze in both of the above Feats. One last thing. If the DM is enforcing multiclass penalties, there's effectively no way to make Laph without those penalties. Swapping Stunning Fist for Monastic Training helps a bit, but requires a very careful juggling of initial levels, and likely costs the 2nd level maneuvers.

A Drunkard’s Tale:
"Hi, my name is Laph, and I have.... an unusual relationship with alcohol"

'Hi, Laph!'

"I haven't really been to one of these before, but I thought maybe it would help me understand why alcohol... I guess the word I want is 'helps'... me do the things I do."

'Welcome!'

"See, when the Day of Mourning came, I lost everyone. I even lost the people I knew before I was transformed into an Elan. With nobody else to turn to, I ended up crawling inside a bottle for the better part of a month. It made me calmer, you know? Life seemed a lot clearer through the lens available at the bottom of a shot glass."

'We've all been there, Laph. Go on.'

"After I finished feeling sorry for myself, I tried to find other ways of obtaining that clarity, that serenity I got from the alcohol. I started studying at a monastery, with the thought that all their focus on finding the center and inner calm would be helpful. It was, for a while.

“Eventually, I got to a point where I realized hiding myself away inside the serene walls of a monk’s retreat was just masking my pain, not dealing with it. I wanted to find a more intuitive approach to working through the suffering the Day of Mourning put me through. I fell back on my psionic nature, and took up the ways of the Ardent. It let me tap into the world around me, and really get in touch with the pain I’ve felt ever since that day. I thought that if I could embrace that, accept it, I could eventually move on.

“I was wrong.My craving - my need, if you will - for the alcohol was still there. More than just *there*, it was growing. I was drinking again before long. I stopped calling myself an Ardent, and took up the Sublime Way. The frenetic movement taught through the particular disciplines I learned was helpful in keeping myself distracted for as long as it lasted, but when the form was finished, I felt empty, or more like hollowed out. More and more of my time was spent down at the local watering hole, with a glass of something fermented in my hand.

“One particular night, a group of guys came into the bar, dressed similarly to my old uniform at the monastery. At first I thought they wanted to shame me for my drinking, but I was wrong. They insisted on buying me drinks... LOTS of drinks. The night turned a bit hazy at some point, but I remember some furniture breaking and all of us running like mad for a really long time, laughing the whole way. When I woke up the next morning where I’d passed out at their dojo, they said they could show me how to incorporate the spirits into my fighting. Obviously, this seemed like a good deal to me, and I took up with them without hesitation.

“Even while I was learning to channel the booze into positive benefits for me, I was still stuck in the past. I kept thinking that, if only I could go back to the Day of Mourning, I could fix it. I could make it right, somehow. In my spare moments of lucidity, I started reading up on Cenobite philosophy. Their ideas on how time is relative, and can be manipulated, sounded like they held promise for my hope of going back and fixing things. As a result, I worked Cenobite philosophy into my martial arts, trying to learn to backslip far enough into the past to set things right. Eventually, I understood that the philosophy had its limits, and couldn’t help me do what I wanted it to do. Not long after coming to that realization, I stopped adhering to Cenobite doctrine, though I continued to train with my fellow Monks of the Staggering Order - as the locals called us.

“Sorry... I feel like I’ve talked too long.”
Sources: SRD; Complete Psionics (CPsi); Tome of Battle (ToB); Complete Warrior (CW); Player's Handbook 2 (PH2); Complete Scoundrel (CSc); Magic Item Compendium (MiC).

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:16 PM

I guess you can't say he fights like a cow.

Vermillion

Only in his dreams can Vermillion remember his mother’s brown eyes. But his father’s roar is unforgettable. It echoed in his mind for years after his sire and mother died defending their lair and young son. He can almost remember the march to the slave stockades, and the cruel bugbears herding him the whole way.

But the slave corrals… those he remembers clearly. For months he was ordered around at the end of a hot branding iron, forced to lift things, to exercise, to cleave straw dummies with an axe. He supposes it was to turn him into some sort of gladiator someday, but it was not to be. Life changed suddenly, the slavers themselves were killed or hauled off in shackles to some justice somewhere by a mixed company of humans and dwarves.

They set the slaves free, and one by one all his fellow prisoners left. All except the young minotaur, who had nowhere to go. So he followed his liberators, at first from a distance, but later more closely. Sure they yelled at him, told him to get lost or go chew some grass someplace, but there were no hot branding irons involved, so he knew they weren’t really serious. Eventually the shouting stopped and they started feeding him, so he repaid them by carrying heavy things for them and swinging his axe now and again.

One of the humans was particularly interesting. He fought with his hands and feet instead of weapons, and spoke only rarely… which marked him as the human he liked the most, since the others would still insult him or shout at him now and again. Carthic was his name, and he taught the minotaur many things, things like how to speak the Common tongue. The dwarves taught him some things too, like how to tell a good axe from a bad one, and how to drink alcohol. They also named him, thinking some reddish name would be funny somehow.

Two years went by, and Vermillion had reached full adult size. He had also developed a drinking habit, and this was becoming a problem. When he was sober enough, he was quite useful to the group in battle, but he spent so much time falling down drunk that he was becoming a liability. For his part, Vermillion didn’t mind them scolding him, and aside from the hangovers, forgetting bits of his past now and again was comforting to a point.

Eventually, the group’s members parted ways. Vermillion wasn’t sure who he would follow now, but Carthic insisted the minotaur come with him rather than continue his dwarven-inspired alcoholic binging. And so the pair set off by themselves in search of a remote monastery where Carthic hoped to study new techniques. When they arrived, Carthic was given a series of tests. The hardest was the masters’ insistence that Carthic show discipline by instilling it in someone else. And they chose… Vermillion.

Teaching martial arts to a minotaur proved difficult enough, but it was teaching him meditation and focus that was the hardest part. Instead of meditating, Vermillion would often doze off due to the effects of some brew or another. He had an uncanny nose for finding something to drink, and it was making Carthic’s test into a true ordeal. But Vermillion did learn, and the masters considered it an “A for Effort” once the minotaur demonstrated the art of Evasion for them, and Carthic moved on to his studies.

The masters of the order had other plans for Vermillion. Still a drunk by nature, the minotaur found himself learning some very different forms, intended to channel his weakness into a strength instead. Though he began to travel over the next few years, he would return again and again to the monastery to show what he had learned, hone his skills, and instruct new students… particularly ones who needed a lesson in judging potential or worth by outer appearances.

Vermillion – Minotaur Monk 2 / Drunken Master 10

Characteristics

32 Points

{table=head]Statistic|Bought|Racial| = |Final Score
Strength |16 |+2 |= |18
Dexterity |14 |+2 |= |16
Constitution |12 |+0 |= |12
Intelligence |14 |-4 |= |10
Wisdom |14 |+0 |= |14
Charisma |8 |-2 |= |6[/TABLE]

Statistics shown at level 1. Savage Species progression used below for racial stat increases through level 8.

The Build
Red Bull and Vodka

The first 8 levels are 6 HD of Monstrous Humanoid (each with +1 BAB) and 2 "dead" levels of ECL (each with no skills gained). Feats are therefore gained at 1, 4, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20, with monk bonus feats at 9 and 10.

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Minotaur 1|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|Listen 4, Spot 4|Great Fortitude|Monstrous Humanoid, Size Medium, +2 Natural Armor, Land Speed 30, Darkvision 60’, Gore 1d4 (Multiattack -5, Charge 2d6)
2nd|Minotaur 2|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Listen 5, Spot 5|-|+2 Str (20), Keen Senses (+1), Natural Cunning (Cannot become lost)
3rd|Minotaur 3|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|-|-|+2 Con (14), +1 Natural Armor (+3 total), Gore 1d6 (Multiattack -5, Charge 2d8)
4th|Minotaur 4|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Listen 6, Spot 6|Power Attack|+2 Str (22), Scent (10’), Keen Senses (+2), Natural Cunning (Track)
5th|Minotaur 5|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|-|-|+2 Con (16), +1 Natural Armor (+4 total)
6th|Minotaur 6|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|Jump 2|-|+3 Str (25), -2 Dex (14), Scent (20’), Size Large, Keen Senses (+3)
7th|Minotaur 7|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|Jump 4|-|+1 Natural Armor (+5 total), Gore 1d8 (Multiattack -5, Charge 4d6), Natural Cunning(never flat-footed, Immunity to Maze)
8th|Minotaur 8|
+6|
+2|
+5|
+5|Jump 6|Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed, 1d6)|Scent (30’), Keen Senses (+4)

9th|Monk 1|
+6|
+4|
+7|
+7|Tumble 4|Dodge|Unarmed Strike (2d6), Flurry of Blows, AC bonus

10th|Monk 2|
+7|
+5|
+8|
+8|Tumble 8|Combat Reflexes|Evasion, +1 Str (26)

11th|Drunken Master 1|
+7|
+7|
+10|
+8|Tumble 10, Jump 8|Superior Unarmed Strike (3d6)|Drink Like a Demon, Improvised Weapons

12th|Drunken Master 2|
+8|
+9|
+11|
+8|Tumble 12, Jump 10|-|Stagger

13th|Drunken Master 3|
+9|
+9|
+11|
+9|Tumble 14, Jump 12|-|Swaying Waist

14th| Drunken Master 4|
+10|
+10|
+12|
+9|Tumble 16, Jump 14|Improved Natural Attack (Horns, Gore 2d6, Multiattack -5, Charge 6d6)|AC Bonus +1, Improved Improvised Weapons, +1 Str (27)

15th| Drunken Master 5|
+10|
+10|
+12|
+9|Jump 16, Balance 2|-|Greater Improvised Weapons

16th| Drunken Master 6|
+11|
+11|
+13|
+10|Balance 6|-|Improved Feint

17th| Drunken Master 7|
+12|
+11|
+13|
+10|Jump 20|Leap Attack|Improved Grapple

18th| Drunken Master 8|
+13|
+12|
+14|
+10|Tumble 20|-|For Medicinal Purposes, +1 Str (28)

19th| Drunken Master 9|
+13|
+12|
+14|
+11|Balance 10|-|AC Bonus +2, Corkscrew Rush, Superior Improvised Weapons

20th| Drunken Master 10|
+14|
+13|
+15|
+11|Balance 14|Improved Bull Rush|Breath of Flame[/table]

Level Highlights

Level 1 – Still a youngling, Vermillion is following the party that rescued him from the slavers like a lost puppy (or cow). He can swing a greataxe well enough and is stuffed into medium armor sporting a 20 AC, so he’s more of a hireling than a burden.

Level 6 – Nearly grown up, Vermillion has hit size large and is doing a lot with a high strength, a greataxe, and power attack. (one attack at +12 to hit doing 3d6+7, and one at +7 doing 1d6+7, plus power attack) Unfortunately, he’s also a lot of trouble, what with his short temper and heavy drinking habits.

Level 10 – Vermillion has been training under Carthic at the monastery for over a year now, and is a much more stable person. While he can still dust up with his greataxe (+15/+10 for 3d6+8 and +10 for 1d8+8), his unarmed prowess is catching up (+13/+13/+8 and +8). His drinking is still an issue, though, but now that he has proven himself to the masters at the monastery, they have a plan to channel it…

Level 14 – Vermillion’s drinking habit is now a strength instead of a weakness. While his hand to hand skills are impressive (+16/+16/+11 for 3d6+8 and +11 for 2d6+8), he delights in producing an unpredictable staggering charge (+20 for 6d6+16), and ripping doors off their hinges and using them for cover.

Level 20 – Just as he was once a test for the monk Carthic, now he is a test again. Master Vermillion is a lesson to young monks about not relying on outer appearance. While it is the corkscrew rush that makes him so dangerous, being a fire breathing bull doesn’t hurt either.

Sources
{table=head]Sourcebook|Class/Race|Feats
Complete Adventurer |- |Leap Attack
Complete Warrior |Drunken Master |-
Monster Manual |Minotaur |Improved Natural Attack
Player’s Handbook |Monk |Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack
Savage Species |Minotaur level progression |-
Tome of Battle |- |Superior Unarmed Strike
Unearthed Arcana |- |Cobra Strike Monk Style (Monk 1 only)[/table]

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:17 PM

I swear to God, I can't pronounce that name.
...and a basketweaver? Dude! That's too much! I'm glad you are not underwater, at least.

Uthunan Kavuilika
Lawful Neutral GoliathRoS
Stats:
Str: 16+4=20
Dex: 16-2=14
Con: 12+2=14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 8
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Monk 1l|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|Climb +4 Jump +4 Knowledge (Religion) +4 Listen +4 Tumble +4|Great Fortitude, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike|Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike

2nd|Monk 2l|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|Climb +1 Jump +1 Knowledge (Religion) +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Combat Reflexes|Evasion

3rd|Monk 3|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Climb +1 Jump +1 Knowledge (Religion) +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Dodge|Still Mind

4th|GoliathRoS Bear Totem BarbarianCC 1|
+3|
+5|
+3|
+3|Climb +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1 (CC)|None|Mountain Rage, Improved Grab

5th|Bear Totem Barbarian 2|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|Climb +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1 (CC)|None|Uncanny Dodge

6th|Drunken Master 1l|
+4|
+8|
+5|
+3|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|MultigrabSS|Drink Like A Demon, Improvised Weapons

7th|Drunken Master 2l|
+5|
+9|
+6|
+3|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|None|Stagger

8th|Drunken Master 3|
+6|
+9|
+6|
+4|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|None|Swaying Waist

9th|Drunken Master 4|
+7|
+10|
+7|
+4|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Greater MultigrabSS|AC Bonus +1, Improved Improvised Weapons

10th|Drunken Master 5|
+7|
+10|
+7|
+4|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|None|Greater Improvised Weapons

11th|Drunken Master 6l|
+8|
+11|
+8|
+5|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Improved Feint|-

12th|Drunken Master 7|
+9|
+11|
+8|
+5|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Good KarmaCS|-

13th|Drunken Master 8|
+10|
+12|
+9|
+5|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|None|For Medicinal Purposes

14th|Drunken Master 9|
+10|
+12|
+9|
+6|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|None|AC Bonus +2, Corkscrew Rush, Superior Improvised Weapons

15th|Drunken Master 10|
+11|
+13|
+10|
+6|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +1 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Advantageous AvoidanceCS|Breath of Flame

16th|Cleric 1|
+11|
+15|
+10|
+8|Craft (Basketweaving) +2 Knowledge (religion) +1|Trickery Devotion|Turn Undead, Luck Domain

17th|Fortune's Friend 1|
+11|
+15|
+12|
+8|Climb +2 Craft (Basketweaving) +2 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +1|None|Easy Luck, Extra Fortune, More Luck Than Skill

18th|Fortune's Friend 2|
+12|
+15|
+13|
+8|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +2 Jump +2 Listen +1 Tumble +1|Unbelievable Luck, Third Time's The Charm|-

19th|Fortune's Friend 3|
+12|
+16|
+13|
+9|Climb +1 Craft (Basketweaving) +2 Jump +1 Listen +1 Tumble +2|None|Extra Fortune, Fortune's Favourite
[/table]

SpellsSpells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|3|1+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|3|1+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|4|2+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
[/table]

Uthunan's Story
Legends and cautionary tales about the Fey are spread far and wide across the known world. Almost every civilisation has its warnings about these capricious creatures. Unfortunately for Uthunan Kavuilika, the tales had apparently not got as far as his tribe of Goliaths in the mountains. There can be no other explanation for the actions of his father.
It was winter, and Uthunan’s mother was heavy with the unborn Uthunan. His father had been hunting, and was carrying his kill back to his pregnant wife. By the side of the trail, then, he espied an old woman, huddling over a small fire. She looked up as he approached, and begged of him a share of the kill, to keep her sustained in this harsh winter.
“Away with you, crone,” the hunter told her. “This meat is for my wife and unborn son. I have none to share with such as you.”
“Oh, sir, will you not reconsider? I am old, and have no tribe. If I do not eat, I will surely perish.”
“That is your problem, not mine. I know not why you are tribeless, but it is no concern of mine.”
At that, the old woman sighed, and stood up. Where a moment ago had been a Goliath, grey with age, there was now a slim and beautiful creature, with pointed ears, black eyes, and a voice like the driven snow.
“For your selfishness I pronounce this curse upon you: That your only child shall be hapless and clumsy, a disappointment to you throughout your days. Victory shall turn to defeat in his hands, and he will be spoken of in legend, a cautionary tale to others as foolish as you.”
Horrified, the selfish hunter watched as the creature vanished in a flurry of snow, leaving her words to echo in the wind.

Uthunan’s father never spoke of his encounter, but to his dismay, he watched the prophecy come true before his very eyes. As Uthunan grew up, it seemed that all he turned his hands to ended in failure. In desperation, his parents sent him to a mountaintop monastery to learn grace and discipline. But even there, the fey curse followed him, and he vexed the monks sorely.
Uthunan was large, even for a Goliath, and his clumsiness made him destructive. As he grew from a boy to a young man, his ineptness grew with him. Times beyond counting, he would move in, his form perfect, only to trip over his own feet and end up sprawled on the floor in a tangle with his opponent. Eventually, the abbot had had enough.
“Uthunan, we have taught you all we can, and you do not learn. You are clumsy beyond any novice I have taught. You have ruined more equipment than I can count, and you have injured many students simply by falling on them. I am sorry, but you have no place at this monastery. I hope you find your path, before you hurt too many people.”

Saddened, Uthunan left the monastery and wandered. How he stayed alive, he was never sure. Perhaps he had learned enough of hunting to compensate for his curse, or perhaps the curse just wouldn’t let him die, wouldn’t let him take the easy way out. Either way, after no more than two months, he happened across a nomadic tribe who took him in. They were more patient with his lack of grace than the monks were.
“The bear is clumsy also,” one of them said to him one night. “But the bear is strong, and a good fighter nonetheless. The bear hugs, and it does not matter whether he gets a good hold or no, for he is strong enough to hold anyway.”
Uthunan took those words to heart, and under the tutelage of the tribe’s shamanic warriors, he learnt how to grapple in a much more natural manner than that taught by the monks. And while he was still clumsy, it mattered less.
Uthunan starts play under the effects of Bestow Curse. Per the Book of Vile Darkness, one of the effects Bestow Curse can have is that the victim treats every natural 20 as a natural 1. This is the curse the fey woman levelled upon him. Naturally, this curse has affected his day to day life. He screws up twice as often as anyone else, often when it looked like he'd finally got it right.

At this point in the story, he's a true neutral Goliath 1/Ex-Monk 3/Bear Totem Barbarian (Goliath substitution level) 1. I don't like the alignment shift either, but Monk is the only way to get Flurry of Blows, and as far as I can tell, Barbarian is the only way to get Improved Grab - vital for this build. Interestingly enough, the fluff of Drunken Master does say that Barbarians sometimes become Drunken Masters. One assumes they must all have been kicked out of monasteries!

Incidentally, the fourth level stat bump goes into Strength.

All good things must come to an end, however, and after a few short years, he was once again asked to leave. Resigning himself to a life forever on the move, Uthunan left the mountains of home and headed out onto the lowlands, and civilisation. He sold the furs that the tribe had furnished him with, and went to a tavern to drown his sorrows.
He didn’t remember much of that night afterwards, but he awoke with a new friend.
“Blimey, you sure can hold your drink. First time I’ve come close to losing a drinking contest in a long while. Name’s Rikki, and you look like you could use a friend in these parts. Have to say, it’s not often one of you greyskins comes out of the mountains.”
Uthunan struggled to focus through the headache as the small pink creature prattled. Rikki was right, though. He did need a friend. He didn’t know how to survive in the wilderness of the city, it was a foreign environment to him.

Rikki taught him about city life. He taught him how to drink, how to handle himself in a bar brawl, and how to stay out of the hands of the city guard. And if Uthunan broke a lot of furniture? Rikki just laughed.
He still had bad days, though. He was in a tavern one evening, when his curse came upon him again and he tripped and fell, spilling his drink. Two elves, perhaps slightly the worse for alcohol, were splashed, and took offense. Standing up, they rounded on him as he pulled himself to his feet.
“You got us wet. We don’t like that.”
“I think we should teach you a lesson.”
“You may be big, but you’re just a clumsy oaf. You won’t last six seconds against our swords.”
They began to draw steel, but Uthunan had had enough. His hand shot out and he grabbed one of them by the throat. Rounding on the other, he raised his hands to strike him, and there was a sickening, wet crack. Looking, he discovered that he had bodily lifted the first elf up in one hand. When he had gone to hit the other, still holding the struggling elf, he had accidentally smacked its head against a rafter, and broken its neck. Now it flopped limply in his grasp, stone dead. Shrugging, he dropped the lifeless body and moved forwards to the other.
The other elf turned pale at the ease with which he had killed its friend, not knowing it had been entirely accidental, and fled. Uthunan decided it would be prudent to leave as well, and did so, stepping out into the night.

True Neutral Goliath 1/Ex-Monk 3/Bear Totem Barbarian 2/Drunken Master 4

At sixth level, Uthunan takes the Multigrab feat from Savage Species. This feat lets you maintain a grapple in one hand(/claw/bite/whatever) at only a -10 penalty. It requires Improved Grab as a prereq. Now, grappling like this still isn't practical, though as an essentially large creature with high strength, he certainly isn't too shabby at grappling.

The eighth level stat bump needs to go into Dexterity - alternatively, get an item. Either way, Dex needs to be 15 or higher by the time you reach level 9, as you need it to take Greater Multigrab. This feat eliminates the penalty for maintaining a grapple with one hand. Providing he has the strength, Uthanar is now entirely capable of picking up a Medium or smaller creature in one hand and waving them around. Letting him do fun things like, to pick an example completely at random, using an elf as an improvised weapon.

Remember that curse of his? The one that makes every natural 20 he rolls become a natural 1?
Take a look at the Drunken Master's Improvised Weapons ability. "When a drunken master rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll while using an improvised weapon, that weapon breaks apart and becomes useless."

This is great fun! Every time you roll a 20 or a 1, the enemy you're currently grappling just dies. Even if they somehow survive "breaking apart", the "becomes useless" bit ensures that they're out of the battle. Warning: At this point you may have to dodge flying books. Uthunan's primary combat schtick from this point on is to grapple the most dangerous looking enemy and use them as a weapon to kills the other enemies with. Any time he rolls a natural 20 or 1, he simply drops the now-broken enemy and grapples another one.

Pausing by a fountain to wash his face off, a glint caught his eye. He dipped a hand into the water and brought out a silver coin. He turned it over in his fingers, and found that it was double-headed. On each side was the grinning mask of Olidammara. Uthanan smiled. He didn’t know who was to blame for his clumsiness, but ultimately it might well have been a trick played on him by the Laughing Rogue. If that were the case, then the ultimate prank would be to turn his curse into a strength. He had proved tonight that it was possible. Instead of trying to avoid his bad luck, he would embrace it. He would worship at the altar of Lady Luck, and damn the consequences.

He found an adventuring group that was looking for members, and joined. He remained as clumsy and inept as ever, but somehow it seemed to play to his advantage more often than not. He would stumble in the way of an attack meant for one of his friends, taking the blow instead of them. He would trip and fall into an enemy, throwing them off balance so that their deadly blow landed badly and hurt less. And just as he had in the bar fight, he would pick enemies up bodily, and end up accidentally smashing them against a wall, or dropping them on their heads as they struggled, or otherwise killing them by pure fluke.
He talked with the party Cleric long into the night, and learned the tenets of the Laughing Rogue. He even learned to cast a little magic using the power of the Trickster god. Who knows what the Rogue thought of his devotions, of his determination to use his bad luck rather than succumb to it? Perhaps it was even Olidammara who had put that fey witch on the mountain trail, so many years ago. It is not for me to say, for no-one knows the mind of the Trickster.

Uthunan finishes out Drunken Master, it's not a bad class, and some of the abilities are handy. It's not like he can guarantee rolling a 20 or a 1 every time, so doing more damage the times he does actually hit the orc round the face with the goblin is always a good thing. The realisation that he can use his bad luck, though, marks a shift in his focus. He starts taking luck feats, and by level 19 (+1 LA) has 7 luck rerolls per day, not to mention the Luck domain (which he can reroll again with Third Time's the Charm). Unlike most people, he'll often be using them to try and roll a natural 1, because that means one enemy fewer to fight.
This epiphany marks another alignment shift, as he becomes more chaotic in outlook. No longer is he going to suck up what life throws at him, he's going to face it head on and spit in the face of destiny. By the end of the build, he's a Chaotic Neutral Goliath 1/Ex-Monk 3/Bear Totem Barbarian 2/Drunken Master 10/Cleric of Olidammara 1/Fortune's Friend 3. While his spellcasting is never going to be a gamechanger, it will provide him with a couple of nice buffs per day. Primarily, though, it was to gain access to the Luck domain, which fits his new outlook perfectly.

Incidentally, I put the level 12 stat bump into Strength, and the level 16 into Dex, giving a final statline (without items) of:
Strength 22 (plus 6 when raging)
Dexterity 16
Constitution 14 (plus 4 when raging)
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 12
Charisma 8

Drink Like A Demon will naturally up his strength and con even more.

Addendum:

I am aware that this build may contain a bit much cheese for some people's tastes. However, the rules do contain a provision for fondue, and that is what I've created - a fairly mild fondue, exulting in the RAW abuse. I used a quirk of the rules to turn something that would normally be a weakness into a strength. Is it RAI? Not remotely. I am well aware. Would it be allowed in a real game? Probably not. But that's not the point. Like any TO, it's an intellectual exercise, spotting a loophole that can be used to great effect.

Regarding whether or not people can break, the only rules-hazy thing at all is whether you can use a person as an improvised weapon in the first place. If you accept that you can, then the Drunken Master wording is unambiguous, and they break apart on a natural 1. It doesn't matter that you usually can't simply break a person; specific trumps general, and uthunan is just that destructive.

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:19 PM

Heh, I bet Jumilk will really like this one.

Musha rain dum-a-doo dum-a-da, ha, ya
Whack for my daddy-o
Whack for my daddy-o
There's whiskey in the jar-o
Whiskey in the jar-o
- Metallica (?), Whiskey in the Jar

Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King
"Moderation in all things, except spirits and freedom!"
Dragonborn Jungle Halfling Barbarian 1/Scout 5/Shou Disciple 5/Drunken Master 9

They were a proud people once, the Blackfoot Tribe. Descended from those that lived amongst the humans of Shou, they migrated across a fierce and frozen land to make the land of the Rolling Hills their own. However, the humans came, claiming that they had discovered the New World (though it was very old to the generations of Blackfoots who had been living there). Nini was a brave warrior, and the ruler of these mighty people.

A nomadic tribe, the Blackfoots sought balance in all things--a principle they called the Scales of Life. Power and finesse, brutality and mercy, all had a place in the world of the Blackfoots. However, when the humans came to the village with promises of gifts, they brought something that disrupted the Scales. They brought whiskey.

Man and woman alike soon became addled and addicted, nursing themselves on the teat of the bars and taverns that soon littered the land. This made them easy targets for the humans, who were able to clear out "The Tiny Threat" in the name of progress. Some were forced to work for the humans, while others were corralled together in small villages. Among the Blackfoots, none were sure who had it worse. However, they all shared a common sentiment--Nini had failed them.

The foolhardy chief had traded willingly with the humans once they gave him his first taste of their whiskey...anything for another drop. His leadership lapsed, and soon he was nothing more than a figurehead abandoned by his people in return for abandoning them. He became nothing more than a local legend, a story human children told about the old man that never left his barstool. This all changed, however, when he met a party of elves who came through town while travelling. They watched Nini with awe as he downed mug after mug of spirits, until one of them approached him. She introduced herself as Jumilk, indicating that her party was celebrating her birthday. They invited Nini to share a few drinks with them, at no charge to him.

He greedily accepted, and unwittingly turned his life around. After a long night and many rounds, Jumilk drunkenly confessed her true intentions. Her party was not simply passing through--they had come in search of Nini. They had heard of his downfall, yet another empire destroyed at the hands of the humans. Her and her friends let Nini know that not only had the devil's brew been his demise, but that it could also be the source of ineffable power. He trained (and drank) with them in the desert for months on end, learning the ways of the drunken masters. Eventually, he had learned all he could from them and decided that he had to leave in order to rescue his people from oppression.

Tales of his path at this point diverge, but they all hold that Nini still staggers through desert towns to this day, keeping struggling saloons in business and fighting for the freedom of the Blackfoot people. The destruction of Fort Summerwood, the rebellion at Lake Lockhaven, and General Harrington's folly--these and other decisive military victories for the Blackfoots are ascribed to Chieftain Nini's leadership. Every year, while the humans gather to commemorate their "discovery," the Blackfoot people gather for a rousing night of drinking the night before, hoping to tap some of Nini's power for themselves. He is their leader once again; the reign of the Whiskey King continues.

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Barbarian 1|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Jump 4, Listen 4, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Spot 2|Dodge|Lion totem (pounce replaces fast movement), illiteracy, rage 1/day

2nd|Scout 1|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Balance 1, Jump 5, Listen 5, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Spot 5, Tumble 2||Skirmish (+1d6), trapfinding

3rd|Scout 2|
+2|
+2|
+3|
+0|Balance 2, Jump 6, Listen 6, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Spot 6, Tumble 6|Improved Unarmed Strike|Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny Dodge

4th|Scout 3|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Balance 3, Hide 3, Jump 7, Listen 7, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Spot 7, Tumble 7||Fast movement +10 ft, Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC), trackless step

5th|Scout 4|
+4|
+3|
+4|
+1|Balance 4, Hide 4, Jump 8, Listen 8, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 8, Tumble 8|Great Fortitude|Bonus feat (Great Fortitude)

6th|Scout 5|
+4|
+3|
+4|
+1|Balance 5, Hide 5, Jump 9, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 4, Spot 9, Tumble 9|Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)|Evasion, skirmish (+2d6, +1 AC)

7th|Shou Disciple 1|
+5|
+5|
+6|
+1|Balance 5, Hide 5, Jump 10, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 4, Spot 9, Tumble 10||Unarmed strike damage 1d6, Dodge bonus +1

8th|Shou Disciple 2|
+6/+1|
+6|
+7|
+1|Balance 5, Hide 5, Jump 11, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 4, Spot 9, Tumble 11|Power Attack|Unarmed Strike damage 1d8, Bonus feat (Power Attack), Dodge bonus +2

9th|Shou Disciple 3|
+7/+2|
+6|
+7|
+2|Balance 5, Hide 5, Jump 12, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 12, Acrobatic Backstab|Leap Attack|Unarmed Strike damage 1d10, Martial flurry (light)

10th|Shou Disciple 4|
+8/+3|
+7|
+8|
+2|Balance 5, Hide 5, Jump 13, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 13|Mobility|Bonus feat (Mobility), Dodge bonus +3

11th|Shou Disciple 5|
+9/+4|
+7|
+8|
+2|Balance 5, Hide 5, Jump 14, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 14||Unarmed Strike damage 2d6, Martial flurry (any)

12th|Drunken Master 1|
+9/+4|
+9|
+10|
+2|Balance 5, Bluff 1, Hide 6, Jump 15, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 15|Elusive Target|Drink Like a Demon, Improvised Weapons

13th|Drunken Master 2|
+10/+5|
+9|
+11|
+2|Balance 5, Bluff 2, Hide 7, Jump 16, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 16||Stagger

14th|Drunken Master 3|
+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+11|
+3|Balance 5, Bluff 3, Hide 8, Jump 17, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 17||Swaying Waist

15th|Drunken Master 4|
+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+12|
+3|Balance 5, Bluff 4, Hide 9, Jump 18, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 18|Underfoot Combat|AC bonus +1, improved improvised weapons

16th|Drunken Master 5|
+12/+7/+2|
+11|
+12|
+3|Balance 5, Bluff 5, Hide 10, Jump 19, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 19||Greater Improvised Weapons

17th|Drunken Master 6|
+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+13|
+4|Balance 5, Bluff 6, Hide 11, Jump 20, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 20|Improved Feint|Bonus feat (Improved Feint)

18th|Drunken Master 7|
+14/+9/+4|
+12|
+13|
+4|Balance 5, Bluff 7, Hide 12, Jump 21, Listen 9, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 9, Tumble 21|Confound the Big Folk, Improved Grapple|Bonus feat (Improved Grapple)

19th|Drunken Master 8|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+14|
+4|Balance 5, Bluff 8, Hide 13, Jump 22, Listen 8, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 8, Tumble 22, Nimble Stand||For Medicinal Purposes

20th|Drunken Master 9|
+15/+10/+5|
+13|
+14|
+5|Balance 5, Bluff 8, Hide 13, Jump 23, Listen 8, Know: local (Shou Expatriate) 2 (cc), Move Silently 2, Spot 8, Tumble 23, Back on Your Feet||AC bonus +2, corkscrew rush, superior improvised weapons[/table]

{table=head]ABILITY|POINTS|BASE|RACE|LEVELS|ENHANCEMENT|INHERE NT|TOTAL|MOD
STR|10|16|-2|5|6|5|30|+10
DEX|8|15|+0|0|6|5|26|+8
CON|8|15|+2|0|6|5|28|+9
INT|2|10|0|0|0|6|16|+3
WIS|4|12|0|0|0|6|18|+4
CHA|0|8|0|0|6|0|14|+2[/table]

Being a Drunken Master:

Entry requirements: Two of the entry requirements are also requirements of Shou Disciple (Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike), keeping them from being useless feats. Also, the class features of Shou Disciple improve upon both of these requirements (increasing the Dodge bonus and unarmed damage at quicker rates). Great Fortitude is received at scout's 4th level (instead of wasting a feat slot), and evasion is granted by the fifth level of scout (but see Adaptation notes, below). Finally, I have checked with true_shinken directly, who confirmed that the class features of Shou Disciple grant flurry of blows, rather than simply advancing it. However, see the Adaptation section below if you disagree for an alternate solution.
Drink like a demon: Because of the steep penalties to INT and WIS for increased use of this class feature, a Belt of Magnificence helps by boosting those scores each by 6, enough for 3 extra drinks without becoming a vegetable--two shy of his limit from being 9th level. Not only does this provide a boost to his to-hit & damage or HP, but this build reaps two interesting benefits: increased CON means that Nini's 1 rage per day can last much longer, and it also means a higher save for his dragonborn breath weapon. Because of this, Nini can choose with each drink whether he wants to improve his one-on-one combat or his overall survivability and mass incinerator.
Improvised Weapons: Not only does Nini reap the full benefit of the extra damage from Improvised Weapons (and the extra bonuses discussed previously in the thread--reach, trip bonuses, etc), but Shou Disciple provides two great benefits when using improvised weapons. First of all, they provide him with a respectable 2d6 base unarmed damage. Secondly, he can use flurry of blows in conjunction with any weapons--including improvised ones. Combining this with pounce and skirmish means that Nini can charge around the battlefield full attacking with flurry of blows, full power attack, and added skirmish damage all round every round for the entire day.
Stagger: This is one of the key features of the build for me, as it provides three great benefits--First of all, Nini can always select whatever enemy he would like to charge, even one who is currently adjacent to him. Secondly, this means that he can pounce with skirmish damage activated for a full attack every round with a handful of extra damage. Lastly, by the time Nini gets this class feature, the DC 15 Tumble check is an auto-success, so he'll only be provoking attacks of opportunity when he wants to (in order to trigger Elusive Target benefits).
Swaying Waist: While a +2 dodge bonus to AC is always welcome, Nini gets more bang for his buck here as well. Not only does this bonus stack with his improved dodge bonus from Shou Disciple, but Nini receives Uncanny Dodge from his scout levels to ensure that he gets to keep both his DEX and dodge bonuses in most situations.
AC bonus: This stacks with the dodge bonus from Swaying Waist, the improved dodge bonus from Shou Disciple, the size bonus for being a halfling, and the soft cover bonus from Underfoot Combat to ensure that it's difficult to hit Nini. When you're darting around the battlefield, survivability is important. This, coupled with Elusive Target and Nini's ability to negate AoOs on his charges if he would like, makes sure that Nini survives to deliver the damage of his charging, skirmishing pounces.
Improved Feint: When you're dealing with a -4 non-proficiency penalty from improvised weapons and a -2 penalty from flurry of blows, any little bit helps. Even though Nini has no sneak attack bonus, this gives him a use for his move actions when she is staying put under a foe and makes sure that he can counteract some of his attack penalty by removing some of her enemy's AC. Furthermore, a flatfooted enemy can't use immediate actions, so this can be a valid tactic against casters if your DM likes to use quick spells like Celerity. Lastly, the Boots of the Battle Charger allow you to use Improved Feint and still charge your foes (possibly still full attacking as a standard action, based on the wording of the pounce ability).
Improved Grapple: Though he's small, Nini's impressive STR (coupled with Drink Like a Demon) means that he can hold her own in a wrestling match. Furthermore, he can hold a foe in place and then unleash his breath weapon on them the next round.
For medicinal purposes: Emergency healing is always helpful to have, especially considering Nini's impressive AC and frontliner status. He'll always have alcohol coursing through his veins, so this ability should always be available. If not, he can Drink Like a Demon as a move action and immediately use a standard action to convert it to healing. Rather than needing to retreat from the battle, he can stand amidst his foes and heal himself.
Corkscrew Rush: While Drink Like a Demon works at odds with this class feature's saving throw, it still provides an opportunity to stun foes without needing to take Stunning Fist. Nini will usually be charging, and this provides him a small amount of debuff/battlefield control. All in all, it is a fitting capstone for the build, and the "penalty" that Nini falls prone if the bull rush fails is all but negated by taking the Back on Your Feet and Nimble Stand skill tricks.

Additional Highlights/Combos:

Best of Both Worlds: Nini's concept came from an attempt to fuse two of the builds I love to play--the Charger and the Killer Gnome Dragonborn Jungle Halfling. Each of these builds usually have their own weaknesses; the Chargers operate at the total expense of AC, while the Killer Gnome usually lacks in the damage department while maintaining a sky-high AC. As such, I attempted to fuse the two builds in a way that would provide me with tremendous AC and high damage per round. I believe that Nini has achieved that feat without sacrificing too much. Sometimes, charger builds will have amazing reach, and killer gnomes come with built-in stealth. Nini all but abandons those subfocuses in the name of combat effectiveness, and he becomes a terror on the battlefield, both defensively and offensively. Rather than casting or using psionics, Nini makes use of a Ring of Reduction (from Lords of Madness) to become tiny when he would like. However, the unarmed damage of the Shou Disciple and the dragonborn's breath weapon make no mention of size changes--they are constant numbers, which allows him a comfortable base for his damage. Furthermore, his fast movement ensures that he can charge around the battlefield with reckless abandon.
More Bite than Bark: Usually, the Charger builds draw damage from sources like Dungeoncrasher and Shock Trooper. However, I wanted Nini's damage to be reliant on nothing more than his mobility. Likewise, the Killer Gnome builds that do decent damage draw from sources like sneak attack and Craven. Instead, Nini uses Skirmish, Power Attack, Leap Attack, and Rage to enhance his damage, along with some items to boost skirmish damage. The Drunken Master is always moving, so skirmish is always active. Furthermore, he can choose and change the direction of his charges--straight lines do not bind him. He merely chooses who is getting the damage, charges at them (and under them, triggering Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk). In the next round, he can move on to another target or circle back upon his prey, reaping the benefits of Confound the Big Folk. Finally, Pounce ensures that he can always full attack (and do so with a flurry of blows using Improvised Weapons, thanks to Shou Disciple). In a given round, his minimum damage (without gear, rage, or STR bonuses) is north of 90 points [assuming one attack hits], while his maximum damage per round exceeds 500 [without gear, rage, or STR bonuses, assuming all attacks hit but none crit]. That's every round, all day. When we add gear, rage, and STR bonuses, Nini can easily inflict over 600 damage in a round on a consistent basis, with the possibility to do much more via critical hits or nova-use of rage and items.
Just Breathe: But that's not all! One of the fatal flaws of the Drunken Master is that constant -4 penalty for fighting with improvised weapons. This wouldn't be such a problem if improvised weapons weren't the crux of the class. Add onto that the -2 penalty for Flurry of Blows (assuming that you have a way to flurry w/ improvised weapons, which Shou Disciple provides), and you've got a -6 to all of your attacks. While you can still clear out a room full of mooks (or other enemies, due to the Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk tricks Nini can pull), some enemies still have an AC that will be too much to handle. For those times, you've got a breath weapon that scales with your HD from becoming a dragonborn. Furthermore, as mentioned above, Drink Like a Demon boosts the save your foes have to make, ensuring that they take full damage more frequently. Lastly, see the adaptation section below--if your DM allows you to use a ring of evasion to qualify for Drunken Master, you can drop the 5th level of scout for the 10th level of Drunken Master. While you lose a d6 of skirmish damage, you can use breath of fire as a free action. This is only suggested when your bonuses from Drink Like a Demon are about to end, but you can unload up to 24d6 of damage through a series of 8 free actions in addition to your breath weapon. This is a great weapon against large numbers of enemies, and provides Nini another option for when he's not scurrying about killing things with chairs--as rare as that is.

Gear to Consider:

Ring of Reduction: Shrinks you to Tiny size at will, activating Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk on anything Medium or larger, also providing some small bonuses to attack and AC.
Gloves of Agile Striking: Increased skirmish damage 2/day, but only applies to light or finessable weapons...work with your DM to determine which improvised weapons fit this criteria.
Tomes of STR, DEX, and CON: Self-explanatory.
Rogue's Vest: Though the name may imply otherwise, this item can also boost your skirmish damage all day long. Also boosts Reflex saves, which is great with evasion.
Skirmisher Boots: Again, only 2/day, but you can always change your shoes to boots of the battle charger later. More Skirmish damage, at a cheap 3200 gp.
Piercer Cloak: Work with your DM to see if Leap Attack counts as "charging from 10 feet above your foe." If so, this extra damage will be the best 900 gp you ever spend.
Boots of the Battle Charger: A standard action charge 2/day means that you can make use of
Belt of Magnificence +6: Also self-explanatory
Winged Boots: Flight is necessary at higher levels, and this can help ensure it's accessible to you. If you're going to be flying a lot, try to pick up the array of the manticore item set, for some decent bonuses while airborne.
Mithralmist Armor: Light armor that can also provide concealment means that not only are we adding to Nini's impressive AC, but we're providing concealment in case an attack gets through.

Adaptation:

Flaws: If Flaws are allowed, take two (perhaps Shaky and Murky-Eyed) in exchange for Martial Study (any Shadow Hand) and Martial Stance (Child of Shadow). This will give you 20% concealment whenever you move, which will be all the time. Not necessary by any means, but a nice addition to the build that provides a more constant benefit than Mithralmist Armor. If your DM allows only one flaw (or doesn't use multi-class penalties), take one or play as a Strongheart Halfling for the extra feat. Martial Study (Distracting Ember). Flanking your foe as a swift action means your attacks are more likely to connect, and access to this maneuver means you can take Desert Wind Dodge in place of its plain vanilla cousin. Now your +1 AC is any time you move (again, always), and all of your attacks deal an extra 1 fire damage when you move. Again, not imperative for you to have, but a nice boost if available.
LA buyoff: If your DM allows this, talk with them about either Feral or Mineral Warrior. The feral template can get you a limited version of pounce (though by RAW that's only if you have racial HD, which this build doesn't). However, the flavor is great, along with the fast healing and various bonuses (including +6 natural armor). If you're trying to play Nini with even more survivability, the Mineral Warrior template provides some great DR along with an increase to CON and Earth Strike--a CON-based ability that synergizes well with Drink Like a Demon. However, it carries some mental ability penalties, thus decreasing the number of drinks you can have in you at a time. Once more, not necessary, but worth considering.
Using gear to qualify: If your DM allows, you can snag a Ring of Evasion for your second ring to qualify instead of taking scout to 5. Granted, you lose a die of skirmish damage, but then you can take Drunken Master all 10 levels for the free-action breath weapon. Furthermore, you could then grab some Mobility armor, freeing up one of the bonus feats granted by Shou Disciple so you can take something else from the list.
Shou Disciple and Flurry of Blows: As listed above, true_shinken told me that this class grants flurry of blows even if you didn't have it before. With permission, here's our PM exchange:

So, I found the Shou Disciple in Unapproachable East--a prestige class that lets you use Flurry of Blows with any weapon! However, a quick rules question. As written, does the class bestow the ability to use flurry of blows, or does the class feature only work if you already have flurry of blows from an existing source?
It works even if you didn't have flurry of blows yet, that's the trick I was referring to. ^^
Some may find this slightly dubious. If so, Nini could simply take a level of Disciple of the Eye (from Races of the Dragon), which explicitly states that it grants Flurry of Blows. In this case, work with the DM to see if you can use a ring of evasion to qualify. If so, the build could be Barbarian 1/Scout 4/Disciple of the Eye 1/Drunken Master 9/Shou Disciple 5, maintaining all of the class features and tricks currently available at the cost of 1d6 of skirmish damage. Furthermore, it would be able to enter Drunken Master sooner.

Sources:

Races of the Dragon (dragonborn, Disciple of the Eye [considered under Adaptation])
Unearthed Arcana (Jungle variant halfling)
PHB (Barbarian, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (unarmed), Power Attack, Mobility, Improved Feint, Improved Grapple)
Complete Adventurer (Scout, Leap Attack)
Unapproachable East (Shou Disciple)
Complete Warrior (Drunken Master, Elusive Target)
Races of the Wild (Underfoot Combat, Confound the Big Folk)
Tome of Battle (Desert Wind Dodge, Martial Study, Martial Stance [all considered only in adaptation])
Magic Item Compendium (all gear)

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:20 PM

There was a time when monsters disguised itselves as furniture to attack adventurers. It was time someone stepped up for revenge.
This summer we bring you the story of Gazebo Jones.

Gazebo Jones
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 4/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 10

SHARN
DOWNTOWN
12:46 PM

The Captain of the Guard looked up with a grimace as one of his junior investigators joined him on the muddy streets of Sharn's most crowded intersection. The investigator stopped at the doorway of the carriage, his jaw open in shock. 'Newbies,' the chief thought with disgust.

"What's the matter, Malone? Never seen a crime scene before?" he asked, taking a puff from his cigar as he shielded it with one hand. The rain continued to pour down in an unending torrent. It was going to be a long night.

"What happened here, captain? It looks like my last stag party gone horribly, horribly wrong!" The captain winced, but Malone was pretty damn close to the mark. The inside of the carriage was covered in blood and filled with unrecognizable gore - presumably from D.A. Thompson, last seen entering the carriage only twenty minutes ago. Mixed in with the gore was broken glass and the pervasive smell of strong alcohol.

"Not sure. Thompson got into the carriage, then the curtains closed and witnesses heard a scream. Driver was over at the tavern, taking a leak. Nobody seen entering or exiting, and no teleportation or invisibility in the area. Carriage has some magic on it - probably standard weather-proofing."

Malone walked over to the carriage and hopped inside, ignoring the mess.

"Hey captain, there's something in this cup - it's -it's.." His face poked out of the carriage a moment later, a look of confusion evident. "It's a jello shot!"

The captain's face turned ashen gray. "Malone! Malone, for Shaavarath's sake get out of there! Now!"

Malone dropped the cup in panic. "What? Is it poisoned? Or..." Before he could finish the sentence, the door of the carriage slammed itself shut! An inhuman scream came from inside, and blood came flying out the windows. The carriage lurched two of its wheels into the air and sped into the alleyway, careening past a grocer's stall.

"Damn it!" The captain fumbled with his crossbow, cursing the rain for tightening the strings. His shot went wide, barely clipping the edge of the carriage. The carriage turned at a near-impossible 90 degree angle, and then sped right at him! The collision lifted the captain straight into the air and into the wall.

"i'm so sorry captain. did i hurt you? it was all part of my little game with the d.a. hey, what's that in your pocket?" The voice was childlike, hollow and mechanical, as if a wind-up doll were speaking from inside a deep cave.

In front of the captain's eyes, the carriage began to transform - wheels folding in on themselves and the insides collapsing. Within moments, the carriage was replaced by a large girl's closet, resplendent in baby pink and complete with a clawed pseudodragon-motiff latch. He saw it come closer and felt the clawed latch briefly tug at his vest.

"ooh, brandy. you always had good taste captain. sluuuuuurp. well, until next time...up, up..." As he watched, the closet shifted once more, growing taller and taller and thinner. Within moments, the cabinet had been replaced by a fireman's ladder, swaying tipsily in the wind.

"and away!" came the last taunt from the childlike voice, as the bottom of the ladder receded, quickly disappearing up the side of the building. The other members of the City Watch came running up to the captain.

"Captain! Are you all right?"

"Get the mayor on the line, now! We've got trouble...Gazebo Jones has broken out of Statesville Prison and is on the loose!"

PRISONER PROFILE: UNIT 87147, alias GAZEBO JONES
SECRET///NOFORN
DECLASS: 2456

DESC: Thin warforged, coloration green from self-inflicted rust. Secretes strange slimy substance - possible result of an internal mechanism breakdown? Creation date unknown.

TESTIMONY: Prisoner stated that he was once a non-sentient battle-bot at the King's Citadel. He fell into disrepair and was deemed hopeless, then abandoned at a slag heap. After this point the prisoner's testimony became incoherent or delusional. The prisoner claims that "highly alcoholic radioactive slime" dripped on him, giving him sentience and strange powers that require constant inebriation to maintain. The prisoner repeatedly thanked "Saint Jubilex" for its powers and stated that it could not have learned its new abilities without the aid of Saint Jubilex and its drinking buddies, who 'inducted' him into their secret society in a combination of bar-hopping and unholy rituals. The prisoner stated that since gaining sentience it has sought to explore every pleasurable experience it could, and listed bar fights and inebriation as its chief two pleasures...after murder.

CRIMES: Murder, Attempted Murder, Murder in the Second Degree, Assault, Driving While Under the Influence of Alcohol, Public Inebriation. Convicted and sentenced following the murder of seventeen persons at the Boorish Owlbear Alehouse.

SENTENCE: 200 years without parole

WARNING: Prisoner has the ability to transform at will into any object between the size of a briefcase and a gazebo. Do not enter prisoner's cell alone!

Gazebo Jones
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 4/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 10

Q: Who is Gazebo Jones?
A: He is a monk/drunken master who can transform into any small to large-sized object and then kill people as that object. Ever wanted to beat people to death as a hat-rack? Now you can.

Q: How does he do that??
A:
1. Thrall of Jubilex 4 grants Alter Self into 4HD forms at will.
2. As a warforged, Gazebo can use Alter Self to transform into other constructs, including animated objects up to Large size.
3. Drunken Master gains +1d4/1d8/1d12 damage when using improvised weapons. According to C. Warrior (Pg. 158), common tools can be used to do awesome stunts - a ladder can be used to trip people ala Jackie Chan, while a tapestry can trip - these are physical properties of the items that provide these bonuses. Alter Self gives you the basic physical properties of whatever you transform into. A monk is proficient with his body as both a natural and a manufactured weapon.
4. Combine all of the above, and you have a drunken pogo stick hopping on the body of its latest victim.
5. Because no drunken master build would be complete without a wide repertoire of combat options, Gazebo has Improved Overrun, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, Shock Trooper, and Combat Brute, along with a high BAB and natural strength

Q: Do improvised weapons REALLY work that way?
A: Well, we have 2+ pages arguing over the poorly written improvised weapons rules, including that drunken masters apparently still suffer -4 to attacks with them and that they provide opponents with a bonus to their disarm attempts. At this point I think there is only one rule that matters for a Drunken Master, and that is the rule of cool. Is it awesome to turn into a chair and disarm somebody with yourself? Is it something a drunken master would do? Do the rules appear to support it? I think the answer to all 3 is yes.

Character roles: Tank, Assassin, Crowd Control. Gazebo has superb saving throws and decent HP, so he can take hits for a party. Assassin: Nobody ever suspected their sock drawer of jumping up and stabbing them in the gut. Finally, like any self-respecting melee fighter, he has a variety of combat options to lock down opponents.

Sources: 3
Eberron CS (Warforged)
Complete Warrior (Drunken Master, Warshaper, Shock Trooper, Combat Brute, improvised weapons)
Book of Vile Darkness (Thrall of Jubilex, Thrall to Demon, Willing Deformity)

Gazebo Jones
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 4/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 10
BAB +16, 8d10/12d8 HD

Base Attributes (32 PB):
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8
*Raise Str/Con with levels

Level progression chart:

NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features
1st|Monk 1|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+2|4R: Escape Artist, 4R: Tumble, 4R: Any 2 other skills|Willing Deformity, Improved Grapple [Monk 1], Improved Unarmed Strike [Monk 1]|Flurry of Blows, AC bonus

2nd|Monk 2|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+3|+1R: Escape Artist, Tumble, Any 2 other skills|Deflect Arrows [Monk 2]|Evasion

3rd|Monk 2/Fighter 1|
+2|
+5|
+3|
+3|+1R cross-class: Tumble|Dodge [Ftr 3], Thrall to Demon|Bonus Feat

4th|Monk 2/Fighter 2|
+3|
+6|
+3|
+3|+1R cross-class: Tumble|Power Attack| Bonus Feat

5th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 1|
+4|
+8|
+5|
+5|+1R cross-class: Tumble|-|Sickening Slime

6th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 2|
+5|
+9|
+6|
+6|+2R: Any 2 skills|Great Fortitude|Corrosive Touch

7th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 3 |
+6|
+9|
+6|
+6|+2R: Any 2 skills|-|Summon Ooze

8th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4 |
+7|
+10|
+7|
+7|+2R: Any 2 skills|-|Alter Self at will, Contagion 1/day

9th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 1|
+7|
+12|
+9|
+7|Any 4 class skills|Improved Bull Rush|Drink, improvised weapons

10th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 2|
+8|
+13|
+10|
+7|Any 4 class skills|-|Stagger

11th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 3|
+9|
+13|
+10|
+8|Any 4 class skills|-|Swaying Waist

12th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 4|
+9|
+14|
+11|
+8|Any 4 class skills|Improved Sunder|Improved improv. weapons

13th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 5|
+10|
+14|
+11|
+8|Any 4 class skills|-|Greater improvised weapons

14th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 6|
+11|
+15|
+12|
+9|Any 4 class skills|Improved Feint |Bonus Feat

15th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 7|
+12|
+15|
+12|
+9|Any 4 class skills|Combat Brute, Improved Grapple [B]| Bonus Feat

16th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 8|
+12|
+16|
+13|
+9|Any 4 class skills|-|For Medicinal Purposes

17th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 9|
+13|
+16|
+13|
+10|Any 4 class skills|-|AC +2, Corkscrew Rush, superior improv. weapons

18th|Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 10|
+14|
+17|
+14|
+10|Any 4 class skills|Shock Trooper|Breath of Flame

19th|Monk 2/Fighter 3/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 10|
+15|
+17|
+15|
+11|Any 2 class skills|-|

20th|Monk 2/Fighter 4/Thrall 4/Drunken Master 10|
+16|
+17|
+15|
+11|Any 2 class skills|Improved Overrun|Bonus Feat[/table]

Build Highlights:

[B]Combat benefits from improvised weapons:
+1d12 damage to your unarmed attacks [any improvised weapons]
+4 to AC if somebody uses you as a tower shield {table, chest]
+2 to disarm attempts with things that catch weapons [chair, wagon wheel]
+2 to to bullrush attempts [chariot, carriage, wheeled table]
2x natural reach [ladder, flagpole]
Entangle opponents (as with Tanglebag) [Carpet, tapestry]

Mobility options with Alter Self:
Land speed: 70ft movement speed as a go-cart or other small or medium wheeled object
Flight: Up to 40ft as a kite or similar sheet-like
Swim: Up to 40ft as a wooden object like a raft or wheelboat
Climb: Up to 20ft as a chain ladder or similar object

Combat options:
1. Charge. With swagger you can change directions and make an easy tumble check not to provoke AOO's. You can reduce your AC for power attack (Shock Trooper), and gain a free bull rush at the end of the charge (Drunken Master 9). You can direct this bull rush in diagonal directions (Shock Trooper) and knock opponents into other opponents for free trip attempts (Shock Trooper). The following round, your power attack adds more damage (Combat Brute), and you gain +1 Attack/Damage for every square you pushed opponents (Combat Brute). These are all common melee optimization tricks, but quite fun in practice.

2. Full attack routine: BAB of +16/+11/+6/+1 and +11 Slam. Any of these can be substituted with a grapple check or sunder attempt.

3. Sunder. An animated object can be of any non-magical material, so you could be a giant adamantine saw if you wanted. Aim for spell components and holy symbols. If you sunder a shield or weapon, however, you can then cleave into a person with Combat Brute.

4. Grapple. The staple of monk builds everywhere - use it to lock down a single dangerous foe.
5. Improved Overrun. Turn into a carriage and send opponents running for their lives!
6. Poisons! You're a construct, poison doesn't hurt you. Feel free to slather some onto your fists or spikes or whatever. Ability damage is snazzy!
7. Summon oozes! Weird, but true - you can summon ochre jelly, gelatinous cubes, gray ooze, and green slimes at-will for 4 rounds per summon. You could just sit in the middle of the bar, pretending to be a normal chair, while green slimes and gelatinous cubes randomly spawn within a 30ft radius. Hilarity ensues!
8. Weird stuff. You can breathe fire from Drunken Master 10, spread Contagion 1/day, add 2d6 acid damage on your fists 3/day, and heal yourself 3/day. Whenever you suspect a fight is about to begin, then break out the jello shots and start slurping them down to "buff up" with +2 Str/Con per move action.

Core suggested equipment:
You can't use most equipment as an animated object (I guess a hat-rack could wear a hat...), however you retain your base ability scores, so the various tomes are of great value to you. Otherwise common monk items are recommended, plus lots of room to hold your liquor.
Tomes of stat boosts, Necklace +5, Monk's Belt, Cloak of Displacement, Vest of Resistance, All Stat Boost items, Helm of Teleportation, Handy Haversack, Decanter of Endless Water (make an ale version if possible), Ring of Freedom of Movement

Non-core additions that would be cool to have:
Everful Mug (MIC), Necklace of Natural Attacks (SS), That Ring From Dragon Magic (DM), Monk's Tattoo (FR), Warfist (EBCS), Belt of Magnificence (CMinis), Sparring Dummy of the Master (A&EG)

Alternative builds and ideas:
Warforged Monk 2/Psywarr 5/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 9 - with Tashlatora, trades fighter BAB for more monk damage and some great powers like Expansion
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 9/Warshaper 3 - doesn't qualify for Warshaper by RAW, but I think most DMs would allow it
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 9/Crusader or Warblade 2 - A slightly cheesier "capstone" choice than continuing fighter, you can pick up some solid maneuvers this way
Warforged Monk 2/Fighter 2/Thrall of Jubilex 4/Drunken Master 9/Lion Totem Barbarian 2 - Gets pounce and rage, both nice "capstones" to any melee build

Alternative feats: Snap Kick, Superior Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Attack - options to build for damage rather than versatility

With skill tricks: grab the two that let you stand from prone to recover from failed bull rush attempts, Twisted Charge for a possible second turn on a charge attack

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 06:23 PM

OK, that's the last of them. Ready, set, judge!

Grynning

2010-11-23, 07:05 PM

ok...I may not be the first one done. Azeroth just shattered and I'm hanging out with my brother tonight. But I really like these, should have'em done pretty soon regardless.

Akal Saris

2010-11-23, 07:27 PM

Oh, is WoW having a live event? Maybe I'll start up their "come back to play!!" trial to see what's going on...

SaintRidley

2010-11-23, 07:53 PM

I was hoping Drunken Master would come at a time when I had no classes. Because the idea that always struck me for Drunken Master is Half-Ogre Drunken Hurler. Starts out as a Monk/Drunken Master beating up enemies with other allies until he realises that enemies that maybe throwing enemies at each other could be cool, like drunk bowling.

Silly idea, of course.

Interesting stuff from the entrants here.

Amphetryon

2010-11-23, 07:58 PM

Drat, couldn't get my second entry done in time. It included Serene Guardian 4....

true_shinken

2010-11-23, 08:02 PM

Drat, couldn't get my second entry done in time. It included Serene Guardian 4....

Serene Guardian? Now that is obscure. It's from Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, isn't it?

Thurbane

2010-11-23, 08:03 PM

Because the idea that always struck me for Drunken Master is Half-Ogre Drunken Hurler.
Ha! If I had have had more time and motivation, that's the build I was going to submit.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138014&highlight=drunken

Amphetryon

2010-11-23, 08:07 PM

Serene Guardian? Now that is obscure. It's from Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, isn't it?

Indeed it is. :smallbiggrin:

Monk 2/Totemist 4/Drunken Master 10/Serene Guardian 4. Landshark Boots + Flurry + Resonance. Good times.

dextercorvia

2010-11-23, 08:20 PM

I was only 1 for 3 on my predictions. Unless, I missed it, there are no paladins and no binders in XV. I'm glad to see an Ardent, though, something about drunk psychics amuse me.

Akal Saris

2010-11-23, 08:23 PM

Ha! If I had have had more time and motivation, that's the build I was going to submit.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138014&highlight=drunken

Hulking Hurler is definitely awesome :)

Thurbane

2010-11-23, 08:25 PM

Hulking Hurler is definitely awesome :)
Yeah, I was wanting to make a guy who could basically pick up anything and either beat people with it, or throw it at them. :smalltongue:

WinWin

2010-11-23, 08:25 PM

wow. I should have submitted my idea.

Brother Toad

monk 3/dungeoncrasher fighter 2/shou disciple 3/fist of the forest 3/drunken master 9

Battle jump + shape soulmeld for staggering, pouncing, corkscrew rushes that would repeatedly slam opponents into the ground as a move action.

Took a while to get going and still faced a lot of traditional monk problems. On the other hand, it could inflict some rather impressive damage when it hit (20th level monk equivelant while unarmed + typical size augmentation and other boni). Unfortunately, due to attributes, he would only have been able to consume 5 drinks before his intelligence became dangerously close to zero.

I could not find the right race for the concept though. I wanted something reminiscent of one of the Daoist masters of legend, but with some decent stat boosts to offset the MAD. Feral human just would not cut it. Hanuman or Hobgoblin were other options, but neither of those were right either.

Well done to everyone that submitted, I am very impressed with the range of builds presented.

gbprime

2010-11-24, 12:18 AM

Well I know who I'd give top marks to... and it isn't mine. Some impressive stuff here. :smallcool:

Pechvarry

2010-11-24, 02:09 AM

Let's reveal our contestants!

Bu the hobo fist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823742&postcount=125)
Eric Redscale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823760&postcount=126)
Simon the Incompetent Archer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823771&postcount=127)
Laph Roig (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823784&postcount=128)
Vermillion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823784&postcount=129)
Uthunan Kavuilika (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823784&postcount=130)
Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823784&postcount=128)
Gazebo Jones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9823824&postcount=132)

My mouse-over text says these are going to different posts but half of them link to Laph for me. Am I alone in this problem?

Akal Saris

2010-11-24, 03:14 AM

But...why would you ever need any other link?

:smalltongue:

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-24, 03:26 AM

Still not ready, but at least one out of 8 should be ready to go. Will post when all 8 are ready.

Since I wanted to be the mystery judge and all contestants have revealed their builds, I want to share my criteria now. Perhaps it won't be the same as the others, and may change a bit on later judgings (if I manage to do others), but I find that if someone wishes to debate whether a ruling was unfair or not, it's better to work with some rulings.

Thus:
Originality: I prefer to see this on a case-by-case basis. I like to be surprised, peppered with rare stuff; if the stuff is obscure, better. You see, delving into books to find rare and unusual "ingredients" adds to the originality, even if they aren't very powerful or have elegance issues. Most classes that don't fit the background or the attempted build, or heavily used races may find themselves low on originality, but if there's a good reason why you should use a common ingredient (say, human or dragonborn), I can let that one slide.
Power: For this, I focus on how well it'll work on combat. I find two measures to be useful; the power/level ratio (how "powerful" the build is based on the level, hence a very powerful class at level 1 will always have a 5, a powerful build at level 20 may have a 5, but a build that starts really weak and only gets strong with one or two tricks and at later levels gets a deck on the scores). The other is comparing the build's power to the simplest and most similar build; for example, a spellcaster build may be compared to a straight Cleric/Wizard/Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Druid/Psion build, and if it retains some of its power despite the obvious exchange, it will almost always get a 5 (you can lose even two or three caster levels, but if what you get allows you to offset those huge losses, then it's not a power loss. This is also on a case-to-case basis, and you don't have to be 100% as powerful as the compared build to succeed (even a character with 75% the power of the compared build but still capable of holding its own in battle without much difficulties could get a 4 or even a 5 depending on how well it compares). I don't focus very much on outside of combat, but if there's an out-of-combat ability that deserves to be praised, I will.
Elegance: Here I notice few things. Good points on Elegance, of course, are gained with creative uses of class abilities, positive synergies between different abilities, elegant solutions, and not that much clutter. Bad points on Elegance exist if other options could have worked better (whether it happens with the secret ingredient or not), "orphan" abilities (abilities that exist on their own and that have no explanation of use), and confusing layouts (though I can be lenient at that, myself finding my own entries to be cluttery and somewhat disorganized)
Use of Secret Ingredient: First things first; you don't have to take all 10 levels if you don't want to. However, if getting one more level in a class could have done worlds of good to your build, you lose points. If you, on the other hand, prove that the other abilities can be replaced by something else, then I can give points. The idea is that you have a point to prove with your build, and why getting into that class is more important than taking levels in another class; if you can prove it faithfully, 5 points you earn.

Hopefully I won't get people angry over this. Bear with me; this is my first judging and I'll be rife with errors of a first-timer. Still, I hope to be fair, impartial, and also as verbose as I can possibly be. Oh, and also rather quick: I hope to do one or two judgings per day, but don't take my entire word on that. Once I finish them all, I'll post and you can decide whether I was really fair, impartial, and verbose as I intend to.

Grynning

2010-11-24, 03:59 AM

Ok, done! Only took until 3 am, but I did waste a lot of the evening on WoW. I was definitely right in that these would be fun to judge; every single build this time around was entertaining and a credit to this contest. I believe I gave out the highest overall scores I've ever given, which is saying something with 8 entries. I raise my glass to all the chefs, and wish you the best of luck!

Bu the Hobo Fist:

Originality: 3.5

The fluff is excellent, and Chameleon was unexpected in this contest, that's for sure. I would have made this higher, but even you admit it's a nod to Fistbeard Beardfist, a well-known combo on these boards, so I can't give full marks.

Power: 4

Strong melee fighter, making excellent use of class feature synergy and feats, with Chameleon at the end to add some high-level versatility. I would definitely feel at home playing this guy in a mid-to-high op game, and you explained his abilities well.

Elegance: 4

I see no shenanigans, and your class levels do fit very well into your concept. The FotF re-fluff is fine with me, but some DM's may balk at it. Mongrelfolk is kind of a power-gamey race, and there are also two UA variants in here. Also very MAD, which you yourself point out, which needs expensive equipment to bring it up. Again, all of that is fine with me, but I can't put this at a 5 because it may require redesign to fit into a lot of games.

Use of Drunken Master: 4

This is a very good build, and Drunken Master fits in here very well, especially with the awesome backstory you wrote. Even without all 10 levels, I feel this a pretty good representation of the class. I would have liked to have seen what you'd have done with 9 levels and corkscrew rush, but hey, very good job overall.

SCORE:
Overall - 15.5
Average - 3.875

Eric Redscale:

Originality: 4

Drunken Dragonfire Adept. Nice. While I usually think that the "dragon-wannabe" classes are overdone in 3.5, IC is a pretty good place to fool around with them and play with the concept, which I enjoyed you doing here. Decent story, too.

Power: 4.5

This guy is very well put together and can really dish out the pain with the Con synergy of drink like a demon and breath weapons. Not as strong in melee as most of the builds here, but he doesn't need to be.

Elegance: 2.5

While the idea of a giganto-huge 10 drink breath of flame is awesome, it is somewhat questionable as to whether the ability is meant to do that. RAW it works, yes, but I imagine most DM's would limit the use of the ability to once per round. I love the concept of a drunkard breathing more fire than a dragon, but it does seem a little cheesy. Also, I had a hard time figuring out what Initiate of Draconic Mysteries was doing in the build. It really doesn't contribute much except evasion and boosting saves via the old one-level dip in an all-good-progression class, it's just an entry trick to grab evasion. This build also requires your group to have all 3 of the Dragony Dragon-ness of Dragon books. Even with all that though, it's still legal and fits together overall, so we'll keep the score at 2.5.

Use of Drunken Master: 2.5

Aside from the capstone (ab)use, this build really doesn't need Drunken Master other than as a Con-booster, which can be accomplished in a lot of other ways. You did work in the other abilities of the class, but with low BAB and primarily using ranged attacks, this guy won't really be doing the kung-fu antics most people think of for the class.

SCORE:
Overall - 13.5
Average - 3.375

Simon:

Originality: 4

Soulbow...master thrower...ok...definitely didn't see that one coming. The story didn't jump out at me, but the mechanics are creative, to say the least.

Power: 3.5

Fairly solid ranged attacker, but more than a bit of a one-trick pony. Can melee too, for sure, but the damage would be less impressive. Pretty much high-end tier 4.

Elegance: 2.5

I have no problem with your class levels, feat selections, or anything in the table itself. The main problem, which you discuss at length, is the odd interpretation of the mind arrow ability. The class feature states, and I quote, "The bolt is identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow." The rest of the text all refers to them being fired; there's nothing that says you can make a mind arrow without shooting it at something. While it's certainly not game breaking, and I give you full marks for creativity, it's not really RAW.

Use of Drunken Master: 3

The improvised weapon ability is a keystone of your build, and you make sure to keep up your melee ability as well, so it does work pretty well. My main issue here is that you don't take Drunken Master until ECL 12, so the SI takes a while to be relevant.

SCORE:
Overall - 13
Average - 3.25

Laph:

Originality: 2.5

This build is kind of the inevitable psionic/monk combo I think a lot of people were expecting to see. It's not bad, but it didn't raise my eyebrows at all.

Power: 4

A solid tier 3 character, with a fair amount of versatility and good melee damage output. Definitely one of the more optimized builds in this contest.

Elegance: 4

I can't find anything wrong with this build, which is always a plus. Fairly good flow of levels, and the backstory was alright, if a little lackluster. I needed something more to push this higher, either some more synergy of the classes (maybe some Talashtora action or something) or just a slightly different arrangement, can't quite put my finger on it.

Use of Drunken Master: 3.5

Takes the class and puts it together with things that we all know are good, and the character is very playable. The psionics and maneuvers do distract a bit from the main dish, that's pretty much my only complaint.

SCORE:
Overall - 14
Average - 3.5

Vermillion:

Originality: 3

While there's nothing terribly special about a monster progression and then straight monk entry, the backstory and the hilarious image of a kung-fu drunken minotaur kept this at 3.

Power: 2.5

A solid front-line fighter, would be a great tank for a tier 4 party, but lacks the versatility to push this higher. Unfortunately he's a bit feat starved and a lot of his abilities come in very late in the ECL scale. Low mental stats also mean he can't get as much use out of Drink Like a Demon. Could've used a gear breakdown too, might've helped you out here.

Elegance: 4

I try not be part of the elegance = simplicity crowd, but sometimes a build as dirt-simple as this is refreshing to see. I like the way this one comes together, except for one thing - he doesn't get going until a very high level. Why use the Savage Progression if you're not going to use it to try and get into the SI earlier? You could have started taking monk and drunken master levels before finishing the racial levels. Improved bull rush should also come earlier in the build, I mean c'mon, he's a bull.

Use of Drunken Master: 3.5

A solid use of the class. This guy would be a great NPC in a lot of campaigns, and would be pretty fun to play in a medium optimization group. Doesn't do anything crazy with the class abilities, just enjoys them for their own sake.

SCORE:
Overall - 13
Average - 3.25

Uthunan:

Originality: 3

Goliath grabs guys and beats other guys with them. Pretty cool, but it's been done before. Backstory was great, good job there.

Power: 3.5

Grappling is good, and takes people out of the fight, but NOT the way you think it does with the bestow curse thing. I'm sorry, that simply doesn't work. People are not inanimate objects, they don't "break" in D&D. I didn't hit you too hard here because despite that, this build is still pretty potent as a tier 4 melee frontliner.

Elegance: 1.5

I thought the Bestow Curse thing was a cool bit of fluff, but you tried to turn it into something very cheesy, bordering on munchkin behavior. That will always get a negative reaction from me, especially here, and I felt I had to deduct a full point. The other loss here was the Cleric/Fortune's Friend end of the build, which seemed odd even before I realized you were using it to further the Bestow Curse trick. I really wish you'd left that out, because otherwise this would have been a very strong contender.

Use of Drunken Master: 3

A grabbing build using your enemies as improvised weapons is still pretty cool, without the shenanigans with Bestow Curse. I just wish you hadn't focused so much on the natural 1/weapon breakage thing; in other words, I really like the core of this build, just next time go easy on the cheese.

SCORE:
Overall - 11
Average - 2.75

Chieftain Nini:

Originality: 2.5

I'm glad to see a killer halfling in here, but I'm really tired of the dragonborn template being slapped on everything. I know it's mechanically good, but it's so overused, and most people don't even bother with a fluff justifcation anymore, as is the case here. The story was interesting, with it's intentional referencing of the struggle of Native Americans with alcohol in the US. The actual class levels are nothing unexpected.

Power: 3.5

Pretty solid optimization, and great feat selection. Has no problem dealing damage and getting around.

Elegance: 3.5

You point out the possible issue with Shou Disciple yourself, but I would probably let that fly without issue; Flurry is well known as a mechanically difficult ability at best, and it's not a game-breaker by any means. SD does come out of a setting book that few groups I know of make use of though. Also, see my complaint about the Dragonborn Template under originality.

Use of Drunken Master: 3.5

Like some other entries, this is a solid use of Drunken Master and is very playable. Doesn't do anything too wild with it; but I like mixing the combat style of the small folk with the class.

SCORE:
Overall - 13
Average - 3.25

Gazebo Jones:

Originality: 5

Buh...what now? Ok, I need a drink.*

Alright...Warforged, Thrall of Jubilex. That turns into furniture and hurts folk. You're crazy man. I like you, but you're crazy. This is definitely one of the weirder builds I've seen in my time as a judge. I liked the backstory and setup too, very well done.

*If you were wondering, I really did get up and get a whiskey at this point.

Power: 3.5

Thrall of Jubilex undeniably adds a lot of tricks to the mix, and warforged is always a good racial pick, though you did lose a bit here due to the questionable nature of them being able to enter Drunken Master, discussed further below. Other than that, very solid tier 3 build.

Elegance: 2

There's a big problem here - Warforged can't get drunk! They don't eat or drink, and they're immune to poisons and toxins. This means it's unlikely that any DM would let them even enter Drunken Master. I am aware that a liberal reading of their racials (which states that they can gain beneficial effects of consumable magic items) combined with the statement under Drink Like a Demon that alcohol effects the Drunken Master "differently" could make this work, but that's a stretch, to say the least. I would've knocked down further here, since the "using yourself as an improvised weapon" bit is also somewhat questionable, but you're right...rule of cool does apply. This build is nuts, in a good way, so I'm being a bit lenient with it.

Use of Drunken Master: 3.5

This is hard to call...this is such a creative and crazy build, and I like it a lot, but the rules issue is pretty glaring. I give this an A for effort, but I wish that I could come up with a plausible reason why the entry would be legal. I'm going to give this a slightly above average score since I'm very torn, but happy about it. This build made me laugh, and that counts for something.

SCORE:
Overall - 14
Average - 3.5

kestrel404

2010-11-24, 04:49 AM

Huh. Only 1 shou disciple - I thought that half the entries would use that.

Here's a quote from my half-finished entry:

The Secret Ingredient:
Drunken master is an odd duck. Odd enough that when you really start looking at it, have a few shots, and then get all philosophical, you realize it's not really a duck at all! No sir! It's a platypus!
See, Drunken master looks like a monk prestige class. Heck, it wants you to have flurry of blows, it lets the monk cross-class, it does everything but ask for monk levels specifically by name. But let's say, just for example, that a monk DID decide to become a Drunken master. What does he get out of the deal? I mean, just look at the first level - you take a drink and pick up a barstool and star swinging, right? Except that taking that drink lowers your wisdom - something monks HATE doing, because wisdom is sort of like their power stat (even if it's a pretty wimpy one)! And then when you pick up that barstool, suddenly you can't really use that 'flurry of blows' ability that's so useful to monks! The class doesn't even improve the monk's unarmed damage!
So why in the world would a lawful, stick-where-the-sun-don't-shine, goody-two-shoes monk ever join this beer-swilling fraternity? The easy answer is they wouldn't! No sir, this is a prestige class designed perfectly to complement the Shou Disciple!
What, you haven't heard of these blokes? Well, the Shou Disciple gets their own unarmed combat damage table - completely separate from the monk one, only goes for 5 levels and then you can't improve their unarmed damage after that (but the drunken master can help with that!), they don't care a whit about how 'wise' they are, and they can flurry with whatever the heck they want to! Got a battle axe? You can flurry with it! Picked up a barstool? Flurry away! Now THAT is what the Drunken Master is all about!

The build was:
Dragonborn (Wings) Goliath
Swordsage 1/Incarnate 2/Barbarian 2/Shou Disciple 5/Drunken Master 10
Feats: Midnight Dodge, Extra rage, Improved Trip, Open Least Chakra(Feat), Power Attack, Great Fortitude, Deflect Arrows, Battle Jump, Leap Attack, Powerful Charge.

The only two tricks worthy of note were abusing the synergy between midnight dodge/Shou Disciple/Drunken Master (put 0 essentia into MD, get +5 dodge bonus, get free essentia point), and the ability to repeatedly pounce/flurry the same guy with a two-handed improvised weapon (because charging in a circle is OK thanks to Drunken Master 2).

Amphetryon

2010-11-24, 07:16 AM

Huh. Only 1 shou disciple - I thought that half the entries would use that.

It's 3.0, and from a source some judges have previously indicated was 'obscure'; that's probably why some folks gave it a pass.

true_shinken

2010-11-24, 07:27 AM

I added a few words to the Uthunan entry, by the creator.

Also, kestrel mentioned only one Shou Disciple. We also got only one Disciple of the Eye - all other contestants used Monk!

OMG PONIES

2010-11-24, 09:07 AM

The tally after one judge:

{table=head]Name|Place|Total|Average
Bu the Hobo Fist|GOLD|15.5|3.875
Laph Roaig|SILVER|14|3.5
Gazebo Jones|SILVER|14|3.5
Eric Redscale|Fourth|13.5|3.375
Simon the Incompetent Archer|Fifth|13|3.25
Vermillion|Fifth|13|3.25
Chieftain Nini|Fifth|13|3.25
Uthunan Kavuilika|Eighth|11|2.75[/table]

Darrin

2010-11-24, 10:01 AM

It's 3.0, and from a source some judges have previously indicated was 'obscure'; that's probably why some folks gave it a pass.

Unapproachable East was updated for 3.5. However, the update didn't actually change anything significant in the Shou Disciple entry, which still refers to the monk's unarmed attack bonus from 3.0. Also, it's not clear if Martial Flurry (Ex) grants Flurry of Blows if the PC didn't already have it to begin with.

I was surprised that no one used Shape Soulmeld: Strongheart Vest to counter the Int/Wis damage.

kestrel404

2010-11-24, 11:24 AM

It's not damage. Otherwise there would have been a lot of binder dips.

Stat penalties are a lot harder to negate.

OMG PONIES

2010-11-24, 12:40 PM

Yeah, I was hoping that it was damage. If so, you definitely would have seen a binder build out of me. Binding Naberius to help with the ability damage, plus the fact that Drink Like a Demon doesn't lower CHA? It would have been tasty. I almost submitted a Hellfire Warlock, using Drink Like a Demon to ease the CON pain, but it didn't really use the Secret Ingredient for anything else.

Grynning

2010-11-24, 12:53 PM

In response to Uthunan's comments that have been added to his entry:

IC is a practical optimization contest, and has an elegance category specifically because rules abuse is frowned upon. The rules do state that you can make a cheesy dish, sure, but in my mind that means something that would actually work. I really don't think any reasonable DM would ever look at that rule and go "If you are wielding someone as a weapon and roll a natural 1, the weapon breakage clause of improvised weapons clearly means that they DIE INSTANTLY, no save." Read it out loud and tell me it doesn't sound ridiculous.

Death in D&D is very specific; you become dead when something makes you "die" or go to -11 hp. That's it. If the ability caused an amount of damage to the improvised weapon, you'd have a case. If you'd argued that the person being wielded should take some damage, I would have said, "It's not RAW, but that makes sense and it's funny." But purposely fishing for natural 1's/20's to try an exploit a loophole that isn't even there is why I scored it so low.

Kesnit

2010-11-24, 05:43 PM

Since Monk is an obvious entry, I didn't take off for builds that use Monk. Rather, I added points for builds that did not.

Bu the Hobo Fist
Originality: 3.5. Urban Ranger was a nice touch. (+.5)
Power: 3.5. Judging this as a melee combatant and not a DM, you have a lot of nice tricks, plus the ability to use a diverse spell list. (+.5)
Elegance: 2. Monk Dip (-.5). The classes just do not seem to flow together, esp Chameleon. I did read the backstory, but still got the feeling you came up with the build and then dreamed up a reason for it. (-.5)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.5. Only took 7 levels of the SI (-.5). I just don't see this as a Drunken Master. To be honest, the more of your explanation I read, the more I thought of Vigilante. Yes, you have DM levels and they make you fight better, but WHY are you a DM, as opposed to any other melee class? (-1)
Total: 10.5 / 2.625

Eric Redscale
Originality: 4. DFA was not expected. (+.5). No use of Monk. (+.5)
Power: 3. Very low BAB (-.5). Breath weapon stacking (+.5)
Elegance: 4.5. That isn't a combo I would expect to work well, but it does. (+1.5)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 4. I really like the way DM builds on DFA. (+1)
Total: 15.5 / 3.875

Simon
Originality: 3.5 Soulknife and Soulbow were unexpected. (+.5)
Power: 2. So you throw arrows, and that's it? (-1)
Elegance: 2. Monk Dip (-.5). Honestly, I think you could have done without Soulknife and Soulbow. A raging drunk that throws things in barfights is pretty cool without the need to add more too it. (-.5)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. Only used 9 levels, but that's close enough that I don't take off points. Much more focused on Master Thrower
than DM. (-1)
Total: 9.5 / 2.375

Laph
Originality: 4. The stacking psionics are a nice touch. (+1)
Power: 3. Several ways to add to attacks. (+.5). Low BAB for a combat-type. (-.5)
Elegance: 2. Ardent and Swordsage dips (-1).
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. I'm just not seeing where DM comes into this. This build says "Fist of Zukeon" (sp?) more than DM. (-1)
Total: 11 / 2.75

Vermillion
Originality: 4. Yeah, I didn't expect this at all. (+1)
Power: 2.5. You hit things. A lot. (-.5)
Elegance: 3.5. Monk dip. (-.5). Nice and simple (+1)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 5. This is what the DM is about - being drunk and hitting things. :)
Total: 15 / 3.75

Uthunan Kavuilika
Originality: 5. While I doubt any DM would let you get away with this, it is unique. (+2)
Power: 3.5. Grappling is good, and even without the cheese, he can grapple. (+.5)
Elegance: 2.5 Cleric dip (-.5). I am judging this on the basis of NOT using living creatures as improvised weapons, as that is the way I think this build would be played in a real game. He is a solid grappler, and everything feeds into grappling. Even excluding his desire to literally break enemies in two, luck feats are useful, so there is no loss there.
Use of Secret Ingredient: 5. Another pure representation of "get drunk and fight."
Total: 16 / 4

Chieftan Nini
Originality: 3.5. Did not use Monk (+.5).
Power: 3. You hit things. A lot. (-.5). But you hit hard and make sure you hit. (+.5)
Elegance: 2.5. Barbarian dip. (-.5)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 5. Yet another pure representation of "get drunk and fight."
Total: 14 / 3.5

Gazebo Jones
Originality: 5. Now if you will excuse me, I am going to go cry... :)
Power: 4. Extremely flexible melee combatant.
Elegance: 3.5. Monk dip (-.5). But it just works. (+1)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. More focused on the Alter Form abilities than DM. (-1).
Total: 14.5 / 3.625

Note: As I read this, all I could think was "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

Amphetryon

2010-11-24, 05:51 PM

Given any thought to IC XVI yet, TS?

OMG PONIES

2010-11-25, 08:19 AM

Rankings after two judges:

{table=head]Name|Place|Total|Average
Eric Redscale|GOLD|29|3.625
Gazebo Jones|SILVER|28.5|3.5625
Vermillion|BRONZE|28|3.5
Uthunan Kavuilika|Fourth|27|3.375
Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King|Fourth|27|3.375
Bu the Hobo Fist|Sixth|26|3.25
Laph Roaig|Seventh|25|3.125
Simon the Incompetent Archer|Eighth|22.5|2.8125[/table]

true_shinken

2010-11-25, 09:36 AM

Wow, Kesnit's scores blew the tally upside down. :smallbiggrin: This is shaping up to be a great contest! I'm sure it will be a close win.
Also, nitpick, Kesnit: Laph is not a Fist of Zuoken, he is a Zerth Cenobite (the other 'psionic monk' prc).

Unapproachable East was updated for 3.5. However, the update didn't actually change anything significant in the Shou Disciple entry, which still refers to the monk's unarmed attack bonus from 3.0. Also, it's not clear if Martial Flurry (Ex) grants Flurry of Blows if the PC didn't already have it to begin with.

While this does not matter for the purposes of this contest, Dragon Magazine 318 clarified that any class that progresses a monk's unarmed attack bonus progresses flurry of blows as well.
Now that I think about, this might mean Shintao Monk gives flurry as well.

Given any thought to IC XVI yet, TS?

I actually have my eyes on Hellreaver, since we've done a lot of Completes recently. There's also another class that's always in my mind that I believe some of you might know, but it's from a somewhat obscure book.
Something from ToB could work. I'm always open to suggestions. ^^

Oooooh, I almost forgot!
I'm taking votes for honorable mention, you can PM me about it.

EDIT: OK, I got a few PMs that I'd like to share.
To Kesnit:
Laph's creator wants to know if you read the character's background. I missed it myself when I first received the entry, so I think it was worth pointing out.

To Grynning from Vermillion's creator:

Why use the Savage Progression if you're not going to use it to try and get into the SI earlier? You could have started taking monk and drunken master levels before finishing the racial levels.

Because you can't. Savage species states that you cannot multiclass until you complete the full progression of the monster class, specifically to prevent 1 level dips in monster. In this case, it's minotaur only until level 8.

Otherwise I would have. :smallbiggrin:

On the subject of Uthunan, by one of the contestants:
Not a dispute...I'm trying to stay away from them this round. However, the following make it seem pretty conclusive that people cannot be wielded as improvised weapons.

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat.

creature: a living or otherwise active being, not an object.

Am I missing something?

Darrin

2010-11-25, 10:37 AM

Something from ToB could work. I'm always open to suggestions. ^^

Most of the ToB PrCs have already been explored pretty thoroughly... except for Deepstone Sentinel. That'd be my vote, mostly so we can point to it and show people, "Yes, it really is 100 times better than Dwarven Defender!"

(Actually, Shadow Sun Ninja is the PrC aggravates me more than the others... sounds amazingly cool, until you get into the mechanics of it, and it just stinks. Although Person_Man did come up with a neat build that creatively exploits the positive/negative energy thing.)

Kesnit

2010-11-25, 11:10 AM

Also, nitpick, Kesnit: Laph is not a Fist of Zuoken, he is a Zerth Cenobite (the other 'psionic monk' prc).

I don't have all the psionic books, so was only going off memory. For some reason, I though Zerth Cenobite was something else. But my point still stands.

To Kesnit:
Laph's creator wants to know if you read the character's background. I missed it myself when I first received the entry, so I think it was worth pointing out.

I did see it.

On the subject of Uthunan, by one of the contestants:
[spoiler]Not a dispute...I'm trying to stay away from them this round. However, the following make it seem pretty conclusive that people cannot be wielded as improvised weapons.

I can't speak for the other judges, but I judges Uthunan as a grappler, not as a grappler who uses other creatures as improvised weapons. I did give high points for Originality based on the idea of using other creatures, but the rest of the judging did not take that into account.

Draz74

2010-11-25, 12:40 PM

Most of the ToB PrCs have already been explored pretty thoroughly... except for Deepstone Sentinel. That'd be my vote, mostly so we can point to it and show people, "Yes, it really is 100 times better than Dwarven Defender!"
That's sadly true. (ToB needs more PrCs!) And there have already been a couple Dwarf-focused Iron Chefs. So maybe ToB isn't the best source to look into.

I think a lot of crazy/creative new things could be done with Master of Nine, but it's only 5 levels.

Although Person_Man did come up with a neat build that creatively exploits the positive/negative energy thing.)

And the darkness ability, combining it with that one crazy Drow of the Underdark feat ...

I don't have all the psionic books, so was only going off memory.

Hmmm, that explains why you were so dismissive of Soulbow in the Power category ...

Kesnit

2010-11-25, 01:11 PM

Hmmm, that explains why you were so dismissive of Soulbow in the Power category ...

No, the reason I was dismissive is because I was judging the build as a DM build, not a psionic build. Had the SI been Master Thrower, it would have gotten a better score. I know Soulbow is powerful, but it did not really fit the theme of this particular competition.

Pechvarry

2010-11-25, 06:29 PM

I know it's moot because it's been updated, but the 3.0 Player's Handbook (which was much funnier than 3.5's) included "small animals" in their sample list of feasible improvised weapons.

true_shinken

2010-11-25, 06:51 PM

I know it's moot because it's been updated, but the 3.0 Player's Handbook (which was much funnier than 3.5's) included "small animals" in their sample list of feasible improvised weapons.

That's so awesome I can't even find words to describe it.

Grynning

2010-11-25, 07:10 PM

No, the reason I was dismissive is because I was judging the build as a DM build, not a psionic build. Had the SI been Master Thrower, it would have gotten a better score. I know Soulbow is powerful, but it did not really fit the theme of this particular competition.

well, as a counterpoint, the top-scoring entry right now is a Dragonfire adept, which only synergizes a couple of class features with DM as well.

Not trying to change your judging, just saying I don't see how the throwing improvised arrows ranged build is so much different than the fire-breathing ranged build.

Edit: Ok, here I am trying to change Kesnit's judging - I noticed you counted off a lot for "monk dips" in your elegance scores - this is something that's pretty much mandatory to enter Drunken Master, because of the Flurry of Blows requirement. Unless we wanted to see all of the builds be half monk levels, I really don't think that should be counted off for. I mean, there are basically only 2 other classes that can give the class feature, both of them specific PrC's, both of which got used.

Pechvarry

2010-11-25, 07:18 PM

Edit: Ok, here I am trying to change Kesnit's judging - I noticed you counted off a lot for "monk dips" in your elegance scores - this is something that's pretty much mandatory to enter Drunken Master, because of the Flurry of Blows requirement. Unless we wanted to see all of the builds be half monk levels, I really don't think that should be counted off for.

If all builds are getting counted off for it, then it equalizes. The 1-2 exceptions get a small point bump. Good for them.

gbprime

2010-11-25, 07:19 PM

I know it's moot because it's been updated, but the 3.0 Player's Handbook (which was much funnier than 3.5's) included "small animals" in their sample list of feasible improvised weapons.

Someone was watching "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist" one too many times. Like, you know... once. :smallamused:

Grynning

2010-11-25, 07:30 PM

If all builds are getting counted off for it, then it equalizes. The 1-2 exceptions get a small point bump. Good for them.

Those builds both had to "dip" something else and didn't get counted off for it, is what I'm saying. Also he already gave them points in originality for it. It does seem a little unfair.

Kesnit

2010-11-25, 07:43 PM

well, as a counterpoint, the top-scoring entry right now is a Dragonfire adept, which only synergizes a couple of class features with DM as well.

True, but the places where it overlaps are what it is built around. As I read the Soulbow build, it's a ranged combatant. There's nothing wrong with ranged combatants, but the SI is a melee PrC.

Not trying to change your judging, just saying I don't see how the throwing improvised arrows ranged build is so much different than the fire-breathing ranged build.

As I read the DFA, there was some melee in the build, which was missing in the Soulbow.

Edit: Ok, here I am trying to change Kesnit's judging - I noticed you counted off a lot for "monk dips" in your elegance scores - this is something that's pretty much mandatory to enter Drunken Master, because of the Flurry of Blows requirement. Unless we wanted to see all of the builds be half monk levels, I really don't think that should be counted off for.

That is EXACTLY why I marked off for Monk dips. I hate dips, and have put that in my judging criteria. That is just my personal preference. It is up to the builder whether to take the dip hit, or add an extra class level and not take the dip hit. (3 levels is not a dip in my mind.)

Please note I only take .5 per base class dip. Based on the scoring in past competitions, there is a bigger gap in the top scorers than .5, so losing (or not losing) .5 is not likely to change the final outcome. (I think only 1 class lost a full 1 point for 2 dips.) I debated taking off additional points for dipping PrCs, but decided against it.

Also note that I have said specifically that if the SI is a PrC that advances 2 class's features (such as Daggerspell Mage or Shifter), the 1 level dip required would not be marked down because it is, well, required.

Urpriest

2010-11-25, 07:54 PM

Also note that I have said specifically that if the SI is a PrC that advances 2 class's features (such as Daggerspell Mage or Shifter), the 1 level dip required would not be marked down because it is, well, required.

You don't think that monk abilities and competence in melee are two different class's features? :smalltongue:

Kesnit

2010-11-25, 07:58 PM

You don't think that monk abilities and competence in melee are two different class's features? :smalltongue:

LOL! :smallbiggrin:

WinWin

2010-11-25, 08:04 PM

true_shinken

2010-11-25, 09:15 PM

I never really had an issue with dips aside from multiclassing penalties, in fact due to those multiclassing penalties, dipping is required for certain types of builds.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though. At the very least, it makes watching the progress of the competition more exiting. More varied opinions provide a comprehensive feedback for competitors as well.

I couldn't have put it better, WinWin.
Also, I'm thinking on using a class from the DMG for out next secret ingredient. I mean, we're supposed to be a mainly Core + Completes contest, bue we never used a prc from Core!

Grynning

2010-11-25, 09:19 PM

gbprime

2010-11-25, 09:28 PM

Nah, people USE shadowdancer. More like Arcane Archer or Horizon Walker. :smallsigh:

true_shinken

2010-11-25, 09:30 PM

Nah, people USE shadowdancer. More like Arcane Archer or Horizon Walker. :smallsigh:

Horizon Walker got quite the spotlight after Saph's Horizon Tripper, actually. I think we even had an IC winner with levels in Horizon Walker.

dextercorvia

2010-11-25, 10:11 PM

I couldn't have put it better, WinWin.
Also, I'm thinking on using a class from the DMG for out next secret ingredient. I mean, we're supposed to be a mainly Core + Completes contest, bue we never used a prc from Core!

I'm looking forward to it. The DMG PrC's don't get much love, and I'd love to see something really cool with any of the 10 level PrC's from there.

Quietus

2010-11-25, 10:17 PM

I'll second Arcane Archer. Terrible PrC, I'd love to see what people do with it. :smalltongue:

Private-Prinny

2010-11-25, 10:49 PM

Also, I'm thinking on using a class from the DMG for out next secret ingredient. I mean, we're supposed to be a mainly Core + Completes contest, but we never used a prc from Core!

My thoughts on the Core PrCs:

Arcane Archer: This would actually be fun, since they have stuff, but it's just not that great.
Arcane Trickster: Possibly. Ranged Legerdemain has potential, and Impromptu Sneak Attack could be worked as well, but it may be overshadowed by sheer casting power.
Assassin: I would lean no. It actually does see a fair amount of use, and while it does have some untouched abilities, the flavor would be completely one-note.
Blackguard: I don't know enough about this one to make a clear decision, but it may just have something worthwhile laying around.
Dragon Disciple: The breath weapon is a bit of a shame, but the class itself may just be salvageable.
Duelist: Ew. Skip this.
Dwarven Defender: Without a way to draw aggro, this class is practically NPC-only. With it, all of the builds are identical. Plus, we've already had a Dwarf-themed contest.
Eldritch Knight: No class features. Pass.
Horizon Walker: Saph made what is pretty much the be-all end-all of HW's, so I don't know how much variety we'd get.
Loremaster: Everyone is now a Wizard/Archivist. 9th level spells>LM class features.
Mystic Theurge: :smallannoyed:
Red Wizard: Over. Powered.
Shadowdancer: You could be a stealthy spy, or... no, wait, that's it.

Quietus

2010-11-25, 10:57 PM

Arcane Trickster would also be a good one.. and maybe blackguard. The first has some class features that might have some interesting potential, the second has an interesting mix of abilities that might be able to be taken in different directions. Dragon Disciple's a bit rough, and HW, while interesting, has the much-stated issue of "Saph already did that".

Also, Prinny, you missed Archmage and Heirophant. Those, however, come in too late in my opinion to be worthwhile SI's.

Private-Prinny

2010-11-25, 11:06 PM

Also, Prinny, you missed Archmage and Heirophant. Those, however, come in too late in my opinion to be worthwhile SI's.

I didn't miss them. I left them out because they're only 5 levels long. I also omitted the Thaumaturgist. 2/3 are interesting and reasonably powerful *glares at Hierophant*, but they're ineligible on account of being too short.

Thurbane

2010-11-25, 11:14 PM

Amphetryon

2010-11-25, 11:15 PM

If Dragon Disciple is in the offing, can we agree to ignore the silly qualify/disqualify/qualify/disqualify infinite loop that theoretically happens at 10th level?

DaragosKitsune

2010-11-26, 12:14 AM

I should have my judging done by Monday night. Sorry for the delays, but I have my weekly session and work over the next couple of days.

true_shinken

2010-11-26, 09:54 AM

If Dragon Disciple is in the offing, can we agree to ignore the silly qualify/disqualify/qualify/disqualify infinite loop that theoretically happens at 10th level?

Of course we can.

Quietus

2010-11-26, 10:11 AM

I didn't miss them. I left them out because they're only 5 levels long. I also omitted the Thaumaturgist. 2/3 are interesting and reasonably powerful *glares at Hierophant*, but they're ineligible on account of being too short.

Ah, I see - my mistake, sorry.

Of course we can.

What if you WANT that infinite loop? I call him.. Schroedinger's Apotheosis... :smalltongue:

Gametime

2010-11-26, 01:21 PM

It's more of a Catch-22, since it is the very act of being a dragon that makes the disciple not a dragon, and if the disciple wasn't a dragon then he could be a dragon. :smalltongue:

gbprime

2010-11-26, 01:25 PM

It's more of a Catch-22, since it is the very act of being a dragon that makes the disciple not a dragon, and if the disciple wasn't a dragon then he could be a dragon. :smalltongue:

That's the sort of flip-flop motion that gnomish artificers bottle up and use to power clockworks. :smallcool:

Signmaker

2010-11-26, 04:07 PM

I'll second Arcane Archer. Terrible PrC, I'd love to see what people do with it. :smalltongue:

Third'd, if only because I know a cost-effective trick that I've dubbed "Regicide".

Pechvarry

2010-11-26, 04:08 PM

IC hasn't had any elfy classes, I don't think. To Races of the Wild!

And I don't even like elves.

Thurbane

2010-11-26, 04:53 PM

Private-Prinny

2010-11-26, 05:02 PM

Just to clarify for the next comp, the following are all legal sources, right: Dragon Magazine Compendium (published by WotC)
Dragonlance Campaign Setting (published by WotC)
Wizards website only content

Dragon Magazine Compendium, and only the Compendium, is allowed. I don't think anyone but shinken will be able to answer for the other two, though, since it goes into a gray area, and we have no precedent for that sort of thing.

Kesnit

2010-11-26, 05:05 PM

I know people have used alternate class features from the Wizards Web site before. (One did in the competition. I almost deducted before I double-checked the rules and realized there is no rule against it.)

Urpriest

2010-11-26, 05:13 PM

Dragon Magazine Compendium, and only the Compendium, is allowed. I don't think anyone but shinken will be able to answer for the other two, though, since it goes into a gray area, and we have no precedent for that sort of thing.

Web enhancement stuff is legit, and frequently used. Dragonlance is at the very least frowned upon, but I don't remember if there is a rule about it.

kestrel404

2010-11-26, 05:24 PM

Web enhancement stuff is legit, and frequently used. Dragonlance is at the very least frowned upon, but I don't remember if there is a rule about it.

The base campaign setting book (the first one), is WotC published and thus fair game. All the subsequent material is 3rd party.

gbprime

2010-11-26, 07:02 PM

The base campaign setting book (the first one), is WotC published and thus fair game. All the subsequent material is 3rd party.

Not to mention, mixing campaign settings (Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms) inside one build would (IMO anyway) be a hit to Elegance.

true_shinken

2010-11-26, 08:34 PM

The base campaign setting book (the first one), is WotC published and thus fair game. All the subsequent material is 3rd party.

You are correct. Dragonlance CS is legal for this contest, but I bet most judges would find it a tad obscure.

Thurbane

2010-11-26, 09:32 PM

Web enhancement stuff is legit, and frequently used. Dragonlance is at the very least frowned upon, but I don't remember if there is a rule about it.
How about web only things like Wild Cohort, or Font of Inspiration?

Amphetryon

2010-11-26, 09:42 PM

How about web only things like Wild Cohort, or Font of Inspiration?

"Use it. Link it." is the advice I was given about web-only material from WotC in past competitions. After all, all of us here have internet access.

Urpriest

2010-11-26, 09:42 PM

How about web only things like Wild Cohort, or Font of Inspiration?

Web-only things from WotC have been used without issue many times in the contest. I'm almost completely sure they're allowed.

Heliomance

2010-11-26, 09:44 PM

They always were when I was chairman, anyway. Use it, link it indeed.

Thurbane

2010-11-26, 09:52 PM

Web-only things from WotC have been used without issue many times in the contest. I'm almost completely sure they're allowed.

They always were when I was chairman, anyway. Use it, link it indeed.
OK, that's pretty much what I thought. Thankies. :smallwink:

Tvtyrant

2010-11-27, 01:53 AM

I vote either MT or Arcane Archer. AA could have some shenanigans involved!

Grynning

2010-11-27, 01:57 AM

3.5 Arcane Archer could be interesting, it is pretty hard to optimize, though. It's just so bad, and it hurts me because I know there are better (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) versions (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/arcane-archer) out there.

WinWin

2010-11-27, 03:01 AM

Dwarven Defender is not bad as a thrower or seige engineer. Otherwise it's main feature is trumped by reach and 5 foot steps in melee. Kind of funny as traditional Dwarven enemies like Giants have reach.

Dragon Disciple is wierd. May be interesting to see how it meshes with sourcebooks like Draconomicon, RotD and DM.

Duelist gets very little return on it's investment. Defelect Arrows is not a capstone...The other features are ok, but a little underwhelming. IMHO the Swahbuckler class is better.

Blackguard has some potential. Not that great, but not bad either.

Arcane archer is bound to cause heartache.

The casters are pretty good.

Jumilk

2010-11-27, 09:06 AM

Hello, guys :smallsmile:
Oh, the builds are awesome! Of course the best one is Chieftain Nini, because I'm on the background! I think the judges should give additional points because of this cameo!

I edited the size of last challenge's trophies so as not to break forum rules on signatures (see, I'm learning lots of stuff!). Just squash the cockroach: :roach: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9775752&postcount=174).

From now on, I'll post the trophies on two sizes: big (to see all details) and small (to fit in your signatures' spoilers). I have already finished this round's trophies and I'm now working on the badges.

Cya

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-27, 11:58 AM

Four out of seven builds, gentlemen! Hopefully I'll deal with a 5th, but at most I'll have them at Tuesday. I'm eager to post them all, since I saw a few builds that could have some polishing and a few builds I like, but I seem to be quite strict on the points. Hopefully that will mean I'm also fair on that.

So far, to give you an idea: the current document where I'm writing this has around 11 pages and 7,569 words. It has around 35,000 characters without spaces, and around 42,500 characters with spaces. So expect my judging (knock on wood so I can finish it) to be on two separate posts.

Just to ask; which has been the highest score delivered on the competition history (meaning all other 14 entries)?

As for the next setup...I dunno. None of the DMG PrCs I find interesting, but definitely I would like to see Blackguard. Though, Blackguard has its share of problems (it calls for several "fallen paladins", and it has a lot of support on other places), but it's not as mind-boggling as Drunken Master, so variation on the theme is expected. Loremaster could be fun, Red Wizard is so horribly specific it hurts, and the rest I have no real reason why to support or not. Well, except Arcane Trickster, but that's mostly like Mystic Theurge or Eldritch Knight which essentially blends two classes (Rogue and arcane spellcaster)

true_shinken

2010-11-27, 02:43 PM

I've been thinking of a thread of IC records for some time and TG Oskar's question about the highest score makes me consider it even more.

Grynning

2010-11-27, 07:26 PM

I know Old Lob from the Stonelord Challenge got an 18 from Pinny and Olo a 17 from me...that's one of the highest scores I can remember. It was a great character.

Also, TG...11+ pages of judging...? Jeez, I thought I thought about it too hard.

true_shinken

2010-11-27, 08:22 PM

Reading through all the older threads almost set my mind about the next secret ingredient. Keep the suggestions coming, though!
Any updates on the remaining judges other than TG?
Also, I only got three votes for honorable mention as of yet, don't be shy to PM me about it. ^^ Btw, I find the crystal trophy to be the most beautiful out of them.

EDIT: On the subject of warforged and alcohol, by a contestant.

Grynning brings up an interesting question - whether Gazebo qualifies for Drunken Master as a warforged. As I respect Grynning as a judge and this is likely to come up again, I felt obliged to respond :smallbiggrin:

1. Can a warforged drink? Evidently yes, as it can gain the benefits of magical drinks and potions, and those have to go somewhere. It doesn't need to eat or drink, but it clearly can.

2. Can it enjoy alcohol without getting poisoned?

I don't know. This seems like something that's up to the player, like whether a warforged can dream or enjoy a massage. Alcohol isn't even a real poison by D&D terms, since it operates by different rules. Frankly, I feel that a games-mechanics benefit shouldn't be used to limit a player with an interesting premise, and I'm surprised that this came up at all. My own assumption was that a warforged could get drunk if he felt like it. However, see below!

3. Bizarrely enough, by RAW with a high enough bluff check you don't have to get drunk to enter the PrC - just survive an all-night party with a bunch of drunks without getting poisoned, arrested, or embarrassed.

In fact, perhaps Gazebo in fact is not drunk at all! He believes with all his insane mechanical heart that he is drunk, just like my best friend in high school when I poured him a half-dozen bottles of non-alcoholic beer. Gazebo's convincingly inebriated performance, however, was enough to be initiated into the secret society, and since then the peculiar interaction of alcohol with Jubilex's magical blessing gives Gazebo bizarre benefits, unlike normal beings and other warforged.

Would that work as a legal basis for entry by a warforged for those judges who feel that they are typically immune to alcohol?

OMG PONIES

2010-11-27, 11:18 PM

I'll check my spreadsheet for the highest score, but won't have access until Monday. Lob was pretty high, but I think Dulcinea got pretty high marks from one judge...Keld, perhaps?

true_shinken

2010-11-27, 11:20 PM

I'll check my spreadsheet for the highest score, but won't have access until Monday. Lob was pretty high, but I think Dulcinea got pretty high marks from one judge...Keld, perhaps?

19.5, the hightest ever. Check the thread of records (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177446)!

WinWin

2010-11-27, 11:30 PM

yup, it was me. Probably a little excessive, but it was my first time judging and I was impressed.

gbprime

2010-11-28, 12:23 AM

Also, TG...11+ pages of judging...? Jeez, I thought I thought about it too hard.

Feedback is good. Waiting... waiting is bad. :smallfrown:

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-28, 08:32 AM

Feedback is good. Waiting... waiting is bad. :smallfrown:

Well, I can understand, but the slight little thing is that there's stuff I got to do, places I got to visit, and books I have to check and builds I have to recheck in order to do a proper judging. That I've essentially done half of the builds should tell that it's going on a proper pace. Sadly, I might not be able to do much today, since I got to prepare for a long game session, so unless I got that canceled, I'll probably have them by Tuesday. So don't exasperate that much, since it'll hopefully be a good judging. And; hey, maybe someone gets its votes before me. All you'll know is that you might get two posts worth of info, and a very detailed description of why I made my decision.

gbprime

2010-11-28, 08:40 AM

Well here's hoping it's not cancelled. After all, were it not for game sessions, none of us would be here. :smallcool:

true_shinken

2010-11-28, 08:41 AM

All you'll know is that you might get two posts worth of info, and a very detailed description of why I made my decision.

I'm sure it will be a great judging, TG. Waiting on it!

Rancor1

2010-11-28, 03:02 PM

Pechvarry

2010-11-28, 04:12 PM

I think we're getting dangerously close to the horror of IC7, and should really lay off.

While I do think the soulbow entry wasn't appreciated enough, this is something that should've been handled via PMs. Now he is forced to keep his scores as they are or else be considered "tainted" in his judgements. And worse, we're in danger of chasing off a very good judge. His mechanical style of judging is fantastic. And I think I'm going to enjoy the contrast with Oskar immensely.

true_shinken

2010-11-28, 04:33 PM

I think we're getting dangerously close to the horror of IC7, and should really lay off.

What he said. Really, let's steer clear from personal attacks.

Grynning

2010-11-28, 07:41 PM

I just wanted to say, while I may not agree 100% with my respected fellow judges, their opinion is just as valuable and valid as anyone else's. Part of the beauty of IC is seeing how differently the judges will react to builds, as this gives the contestants and audience a good idea of how different DM'ing/playstyles will work with the characters presented.

Responding to the contestant's essay on drunken robots Warforged:

Your argument is well-thought out and insightful, and if I was DM'ing a game where someone wanted to play Gazebo, I would totally buy it and let him do his thing. I do love the character, and in fact used him as an example recently of how awesomely flexible 3.5 is in a recent discussion with one of my groups. The elegance score I gave reflected the fact that other people may not be as generous and also that the character may just be too damn weird for a lot of games.

Responding point by point:

1. This was not in dispute. I know they can drink things, but I don't think they really metabolize anything. I imagine they either spit them up later, or they have a...hrm..."evacuation valve" somewhere.

2. It really is up to the DM of a game since the rules are very vague on how alcohol works in general, as well as Warforged digestion (or lack thereof). I know the DMG brings it up briefly, but the only place I remember seeing actual rules for it was the 3.0 A&E guide. I can't think of any references to Warforged drinking in the Eberron fluff, and the excellent write up from RoE indicates that they don't really understand the behavior, IIRC.

3. This is the best interpretation by far, and would even explain Drink Like a Demon (placebo effect and everything). Warforged can definitely go insane, and Gazebo is unquestionably that.

true_shinken

2010-11-28, 09:42 PM

A little thought on Gazebo Jones from a contestant:

Gazebo Jones uses himself as an impressed weapon. What protects him from the natural 1 clause?

Amphetryon

2010-11-29, 12:53 PM

Two questions, one hypothetical:

1) I know we can expect TG Oskar's dissertation on Tuesday; do we have an ETA on the other remaining judges' scores?

2)If, hypothetically, the next IC is blackguard, how are we handling the Fallen Paladin Problem? Specifically, many past judges have gone on record in the past as deducting points for deliberate Alignment changes within the backstory, yet blackguard is fairly clearly designed with a fallen paladin as a valid entry method. Should contestants expect a deduction for 'Alignment shenanigans' if they go the paladin route?

true_shinken

2010-11-29, 01:07 PM

2)If, hypothetically, the next IC is blackguard, how are we handling the Fallen Paladin Problem? Specifically, many past judges have gone on record in the past as deducting points for deliberate Alignment changes within the backstory, yet blackguard is fairly clearly designed with a fallen paladin as a valid entry method. Should contestants expect a deduction for 'Alignment shenanigans' if they go the paladin route?

Blackguard won't be the next secret ingredient, but this would depend on the judge, I believe.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with this when we're talking about blackguards, but to each his own.

Quietus

2010-11-29, 05:03 PM

A little thought on Gazebo Jones from a contestant:

Gazebo Jones uses himself as an impressed weapon. What protects him from the natural 1 clause?

The same thing that at least one judge has said with regard to Uthunan? If a judge takes that Nat.1 clause into consideration for Gazebo Jones, they have to give some pretty solid Power marks to Uthunan.

WinWin

2010-11-29, 07:49 PM

If no judges have responded by tomorrow, I'll start on some scoring.

That will make at least 3 judges, 4 when T.G. submits his.

Tvtyrant

2010-11-29, 11:27 PM

I have to say outright that Gazebo Jones is my favorite character build ever.

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-30, 02:53 AM

Alright: after several days of judging, here are my results!

Bu the Hobo Fist
Originality
So, let’s see…Monk (given, since it’s the easiest way to enter Drunken Master), Urban Ranger (kind of a contrast between the ascetic, monastic style and the defined approach to urbanism of the latter), Fist of the Forest (and then you swing again), to Drunken Master (again monastic, but this time you’re going for a very urban kind of monastic feel), to Chameleon (and then you add pretty much everything). Puzzling…so you start kind, then you get pushed into living like an animal, then you learn to drink like a maniac (and essentially stealing your booze), then you suddenly master infiltration skills, magic and whatnot?

It’s…puzzling. Really puzzling. Just like…well, when you get drunk and wake up the next morning, wondering “dude, what the heck happened yesterday?” So just for that, you get lots of brownie points; the backstory explains bit by bit how you got all that mangled story patched up all together. You embrace your MADness like you embrace your mix-up of races and classes, and the result is an intoxicating brew just like the secret ingredient. Really, that’s a match made in heaven (don’t let the other judges turn you down, now alright?)

Score: 4.5 (patchwork race, patchwork mix of classes, and a story as embezzling as your main class)

Power
Your power isn’t really versatility, that’s for sure. It’s kinda hard to explain, so I’ll try to do it as easy and gentle as possible. Your build behaves like one of two things: a strong hitter or an unbeatable tank. The strong hitter appears early on (during the first five levels), the unbeatable tank appears later (at level 12th when you get Steadfast Determination), and you get to use Drunken Master to shift between both, so up until that level you’re quite set. Level 12th is your sweet spot, which in terms of power/level ratio would be roughly average (you only need to provide support to your trick), albeit comparing that to the power of a Barbarian, a Fighter, or a pure damage dealing build yours dwindles a bit (low BAB, low BAB to PA damage ratio, mini-Pounce is not as great as a full Pounce).

Where things get bad is when you enter Chameleon. I can see the reasons: free feat, free ability score increase, free spellcasting…why not enter? Sadly, you claim your power to be “versatility” and you can’t get more versatile than having a nice amount of spellcasting…which could have been great had your Wisdom score were a bit better than it actually is. Really, a Wis 14 would have done wonders, since you’ll rarely (if ever) get to cast 5th level spells (there’s no way unless you have an item that grants you an extra 5th level spell to prepare, or Wis 20 at the time you prepare spells), but your Wis is 12 which means your higher level spells depend on you actually having the score at the moment you’re casting the spell, so that means a Wis-increasing item (see Elegance below) or casting a spell to boost your Wisdom. BUT, your main schtick (use Drink like a Demon to boost your Strength or Constitution and create two “stances” of combat) conflicts with your spellcasting, so that means you’ll spend about three to five rounds buffing yourself. Without a means to scout ahead, that means you’ll be caught unaware several times, so you can’t claim to have the spells cast on you at the beginning of the dungeon or the beginning of the day, and you don’t get ways to exploit your swift action to buff yourself. So, the greatest source of versatility you have (spellcasting) is something highly debatable in practice, which means you’ll probably won’t make full use of it. I almost see Combat Focus being a better option, considering you get to boost the bonuses to level 4, but Combat Focus is kinda hopeless.

Score: 2.5 (your versatility depends on your spellcasting; otherwise, you’re a two-trick man. With issues of spellcasting resolved, your Power score could boost to 3 or even 3.5 depending on how well it’s used).

Elegance
Again, the biggest issue with the build is the dependence on outside sources for what could be considered one of the key aspects of your character. Relying on outside Wisdom sources hurts you, and having a skill that reduces your Wisdom hurts you even more (since you can’t use your spells while drunk, almost literally). You offered an option in which you could reduce your Charisma and add it to another score; ironically, that would count as an elegant solution to your problem, since aside from social skills you don’t use Charisma at all. I really would have liked to see Wisdom boosted a bit, even more since it would have helped on your AC and your eventual spellcasting, making your non-drunk AC quite good.

On the other hand, while it definitely doesn’t help the build that much, I like what I see about relying on social abilities like Bluff, Disguise and Gather Information. Urban Tracking and Rival Organization synergize real well, and since you’re getting loads of Bluff and Disguise checks for the heck of it, you decided to boost your feinting abilities with Group Fake-Out and the free Improved Feint feat; that’s a bit of synergy that, despite not adding to your overall power in combat, adds to your character and doesn’t cost you that much (though I would have liked a little less Bluff and a little bit more something else). I see that you have a bit of a broken progression right at the beginning, but that’s definitely meant for better skill points and better BAB, so no loss of elegance there (I find that kind of leapfrogging to be practical, and since you provided a good explanation for why he interrupted his progressions, all the more power to you).

BTW: you’re no more MAD than a Monk, and I’d dare say you’re less MAD than one, since you have an option to forego Wisdom once you’ve used it for what you need it (spellcasting, which we discussed earlier on in this section). So all you really need is Strength and Constitution, while having Dexterity and Charisma as secondary options and Intelligence as a dump stat unless you want to add your arcane potential. In fact, you don’t become MADder until level 20, where you can add arcane spellcasting to your divine spells, and that’s where having so little Int hurts more.

Presentation-wise, it’s very compact, showing tactics and backstory in a concise way and able to fold for maximum visualization. I’ll do a minor slashing off your score because of two dips: Complete Scoundrel was used for the skill trick but wasn’t used to exploit the class a bit more, and the same goes for Tome of Battle.

Score: 3.5 (shifting two points of your Charisma to your Wisdom could have done a world of good to your build, not a very significative use of two of the books, but the build doesn’t have glaring entry faults other than those mentioned)

Use of Secret Ingredient
I’ll commend you for explaining why the last three levels of Drunken Master weren’t necessary, and how you intend to replace them. Really, an elixir of fire breath and a potion of cure moderate wounds can be found nearly anywhere, and your use of bull rush isn’t that much to justify corkscrew rush. However, I find very difficult to decide whether adding just ONE more level of Drunken Master to the build rather than one level of Chameleon could have helped more. The reasons are varied; For Medicinal Purposes isn’t just a healing ability that can be used to offset the penalties on Wisdom and then shift a bit into the other side; in other terms, it’s a tactic that could be used to your advantage, claiming a “second wind” and perhaps adjusting to circumstances (say, you need to hit a bit better, so you turn your drink into a potion, lower your Con, and then drink again but this time adding to your Strength, or viceversa). This kind of adjustment would offset a bit the fact that you won’t have a higher ability score by means of reaching 8th level in chameleon, you’d get three chances to heal 2d8+3 hit points when you need it the most without expending that much, and since you’ll never get to use those 5th level spells unless you go Epic or your Wisdom increases to 20 permanently, or attempt to blend arcane and divine spellcasting because of your mental scores, it all resumes to whether you want one more point of Fortitude and Reflex and the ability to shift your Strength and Constitution boosts and “free” healing 3/day or a +2 to any ability score and one more focus to add, which could very well be Combat Focus (+4 to attack, +4 to damage, +4 to Fortitude and a redundant proficiency with all martial weapons). However, I’ll err in that you made the choice that fits your build, not the competition, and thus I’ll let that one slide.

…BUUUUUT! The rest of the abilities I rarely see. You did explain how you could use Stagger and Swaying Waist, as well as one particular use of your improvised weapons, but aside from that I don’t see much more of Drunken Master aside from literally getting drunk to go angry or quiet. Perhaps if I saw a “you could use a pole as a makeshift quarterstaff, thus using flurry + improvised weapons + TWF + unarmed strike”, I could have seen how improvised weapons would have worked; as I see it, that fantastic way to prove improvised weapons were useful was oddly lost, considering you do get proficiency on weapons that can deal better damage since all you get is a 1d8 from it. Also, the dichotomy of whether you should use a table as a tower shield and lose your huge Con to AC or don’t use it (hint: you can use it as cover, but not use it as a shield). Overall, from the 9 abilities you get, you really use well 2 (Drink Like a Demon and the AC bonus which stacks with your Con AND Wis bonuses to AC), while the rest you make only spontaneous uses of. I’ll tell you this, though; you at least attempted to make use of all other abilities and explained ways to deal with them, but I feel others made better use of the class abilities.

Score: 3.5 (definitely putting the “drunk” in Drunken Master, tried to tackle the rest with only Improved Feint soaring and Swaying Waist adding to your formidable AC, definitely see why not getting For Medicinal Purposes for one more level of Chameleon worked better, but don’t see much synergy with the other abilities)

Overall: 14.0 (3.5)
This is one of the few builds that really looks to blend the flavor with the power. It does not live that much to its versatility because of a slight trouble with mental stats, but overcoming that restriction can open a world of options. But really, the idea is getting drunk until near-unconsciousness and become the near-unstoppable force or the near-unmovable object, which is quite distant from a one-trick pony, even without the use of many magic items (wonder what can happen with the use of more magic items).

Eric Redscale
Originality
You know how usually the strongest drink is dragon-related? Clearly you thought of that. It’s refreshing to see entries done with non-Monk requirements, and seeing two clearly monk-related PrCs which neatly provide the entry requirements reinforces the draconic feel of your build. So yeah; you can claim that you can survive the “Dragon’s Blood” drink because you’re pretty much part-dragon anyways. But I really, really, really half-expected Dragon Descendant to appear somewhere, if only because that would have completed the Monk-dragon trifecta. This is a big “ughh, so darn close!” But I’ll let that one slide; that is one fine entry towards Drunken Master, actually.

Score: 5.0 (who would have thought dragons of all races had a thing for Monks? Won’t gonna deck you for not going the trifecta, though; if there was a higher score, then I’d penalize you)

Power
Where the build fails, though, is on its potential. You are clearly focused on one thing: your breath weapon. Your build is roughly equal from 7th level to 20th level, when you get the real boost to your power. Your sweet spot, so to speak, is level 7 because you get the maximum amount of breath damage you can get; Entangling Exhalation and Slow Breath are a dead giveaway. Your damage with improvised weapons is poor (1d4; you’re relying on dealing greater damage with larger weapons) and it’s not meant to be a main attack mode. You’ll probably be flying and blowing up your breath, though. And then you get Frightful Presence twice, which makes it really, really redundant. Well…at least if you actually use it, you’ll get your enemy shaken, entangled and slowed which is a big bonus.

The build would suffer quite a lot were it not because you have Drink Like a Demon without clear interruptions (you’re using it for increasing Con, which means it supercharges your breath weapon DC)…and Breath of Flame. This one is a little nasty trick; think of a racing car’s exhaust pipe throwing bursts of flame because part of the gas heats up and ignites while at it. That’s what I see with Breath of Flame: 10 short bursts of flame dealing 30d12 damage (anywhere from 30 to 360 points of flame damage, average of 165 points of flame damage), and then you go with yet another burst of flame to slow them AND entangle them. In fact, I see you shooting the DFA breath first (to get Entangling Exhalation and Slow Breath to hold the enemy still) and then delivering the inferno. Unfortunately, this super-nova (really, not even a dragon gets to charge that breath weapon) happens at the very last level, and immunity to fire blocks it entirely (not to mention all of the spells that indirectly or directly block breath weapons, of which there are several). So, it’s really a 20-level build up for one super-powered ability that takes 11 levels to recharge; think of that before fighting next time.

I’ll give you one thing, though: Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered is a great tactic. Make all enemies cower for 1 round while using Intimidate (which means one free round to drink) + 1 round shaken, in which you can just attempt Frightful Presence to shake them up (and hence take them to frightened) works really nice. Sadly, by that level, you’ll have to make sure Intimidate works to pull that power up; gotten earlier would have been beautiful but you’d miss on feats.

Score: 2.0 (Aside from breathing and flying, there’s no real punch to the build, up until 20th level in which you get a superpower that takes a minute to power up)

Elegance
The biggest offender here is the use of one more level of Disciple of the Eye to get what one more level of Dragonfire Adept could have done much, much better. I’m trying real hard to justify why you delayed Drunken Master so much and why have one more level for DotE instead of Dragonfire Adept. I can see the last three levels were for Tumble, but I find that cross-class Tumble ranks could have worked just fine. The reason goes as follows: as far as I can see, you have four points you neglected to add (you have 10 Int from the beginning, then you have the extra skill points of human, coupled with the 4 + Int skill points per level for a total of 5 skill points per level). This could have been added to Tumble, which would have delivered somewhere along the line of 4 ranks at 5th level, where you could have taken the other ranks with IotDM and Disciple of the Eye for a total of 8 ranks, entering Drunken Master 2 levels earlier (assuming you take DFA 6 for Draconic Flight). That way, the supernova-breath enters 2 levels earlier, and you can take the other 2 DFA levels for a better invocation while getting essentially the same NA bonus. Humanoid Shape, Voidsense, Walk Unseen are more powerful than Frightful Presence, which you already get as a feat; that last feat could have then gone for Fly-By Attack for unhealthy synergy with Swagger. There are times where leapfrogging may seem bad, but in this case, delaying two levels of Dragonfire Adept (the 7th level and an 8th level instead of one more DotE level, whose only net benefit is +1 to Reflex). That would have done your build a world of good; also, forgetting about the human skill points would have netted you about 23 skill points, something that would have powered your build quite nicely.

Another big NO is mentioning the need for tomes. As I can see it, tomes are something you’ll rarely, if EVER, find lying around. There’s no form to justify eating 6 tomes of +5 each to get insanely high bonuses, not even all the WBL on the world. It’s highly inelegant; seeing how the stats work without +11 to them is what gives worth (and beauty) to the build. In a better allegory to the Iron Chef competition, what I want is to feel the flavor of the ingredients without having the right wine to taste them, even if I’ll be offered wine later on. If the concoction only tastes well with the right wine, then it’s bad because you’ll never know when you won’t have the wine. I don’t see the level increases either, which hints of laziness on your part and that’s bad. And your supernova breath depends on you having the stat-boosting items AND the tomes devoured in order to work, otherwise you’re limited to less than half that amount. Never, EVER, assume you’ll have the right item; assume the Magic Mart somehow collapses, and you’ll see how much that’ll hurt.

Score: 1.0 (while pretty straightforward, I find it could have been done better and relies on magic items for the trick that grants more power, hence indirectly decking Power as well).

Use of Secret Ingredient
And sadly, here I see the bad trifecta. You already have not enough power, and you were relying on a series of items to boost your stats so that you could get the glorious supernova breath at level 20. And…that is mostly what I see from the build. Of all 20 levels, I see nothing for Improved Grapple, no use of Improved Feint, and poor uses of Swagger. For Medicinal Purposes is hard to optimize, so I won’t hit you there.

The redeeming option is that you clearly went for the capstone, and definitely Breath of Flame, if done correctly, could do a world of hurt. Instead, the DM has enough ways to cripple your build by deliberately denying you access to enhancement spells, stat boosting items and tomes. It’s a gimmicky trait, but it does deliver one good lesson: if you are smarter than Einstein and wiser than Gandhi, you can deliver a bout of flame stronger than Dhalsim’s Super Yoga Flame.

Score: 1.0 (There are several reasons to enter the capstone, but it’s a trick that can be swatted faster than a drunken fly; the other abilities are there for decoration mostly).

Overall: 9.0 (2.25)
The build has some promise, but it needs some refinement. It all boils down to use a single trick, but it relies so much on external aid (which undoubtedly exists within the game but it’s really, really hard to justify) that it ends up half as powerful as it should really be. Played as-is, you have very little options other than breath-strafing, something that I find hard on a promising build. There are other options within that same chassis that could have made a much more robust character; using stat-boosting items is optional, and tomes just downright frustrating to support that. But, if you have the fortune to achieve that, then it’s a force to be reckoned with.

Simon
Originality
Seeing the soulknife brings a smile to my face, mostly because it’s an underused class. It doesn’t have the beauty of other psionic classes, and the alternate class features of the Psychic Warrior pretty much replace the entire class, but it’s a good attempt to use it. Soulbow, though, is kinda expected for a Soulknife to get in; it does hearken to your build’s intentions, but most of the Soulknife builds don’t enter because they wanna be Soulknives, usually they end up with Soulbow since it’s a way to redeem the class. Good to see Master Thrower, though. Also: I don’t usually punish for going human, since it’s basically the race to go when you don’t have any other chance, but there’s few things that really explain the need to become human except a bonus feat, which would be the reason why I cut down a bit on here.

Score: 3.5 (Soulknife + Master Thrower is a rare combination, and would fly quite well if you used it separately, but aside from that there’s few things that really catch the eye).

Power
I’ll deliver a HUGE hit to your power because it relies on a very, very, very flimsy interpretation of the rules which I’d personally, as DM, wouldn’t let fly out. I’ll start by admitting it’s true: you can use an arrow as a light improvised weapon, which works as a dagger (hence, it could be thrown in theory). And as well, you can create mind arrows that last for about one round before they dissipate. However, the way Soulbow works relies on using it unlike intended; hence, it relies on a reading (which decks you in Elegance) AND it’s the source of your power (which I’ll deal with here).

Mostly, your combat style relies on using your mind arrow as an improvised weapon, something that at first sight seems preposterous; you already have a mind blade weapon which does exactly the same, with greater power and with greater capabilities. Then you add the idea that your character relies on making a mind arrow to throw, and here’s where I flinch because it’s counter-intuitive. Essentially, you’re relying on creating a magic weapon to use unlike intended, which while clever (I’ll admit at least that), seems a bit like cheating. It does have some great ways to rack up damage (Palm Shot to attack twice, Weak Spot to strike with touch AC instead of normal AC, INA + Superior Unarmed Strike for better unarmed strike damage and hence better improvised weapon damage), but when you consider that you have to use your mind blade for this as a mind arrow and without shooting it, you suddenly lose half of your bonuses (can’t use your unarmed strike damage, can’t use Palm Shot, can’t use Weak Spot), and that’s basically the gist of your character. You can also use your arrow in melee, and that I could let fly, but your intention is to use it thrown instead of melee, so it’s (again) counter-intuitive. And again, you’re using the TWF line, but counter-intuitively.

But let’s assume it DOES work, for example. Let’s assume, as you are assuming, that the build really does work as intended. In either case, it’s still Tier 5, since while you can do good damage, you have few other ways to deal with other stuff. It’s a good attempt to mix two Tier 5-6 classes and try to make a good build out of it, but it’s not that powerful at the end; losing that last level of Drunken Master means you don’t get a reliable energy attack, even if it’s mostly 3d12 fire damage (done several times to rack up damage to a respectable 9d12 or 12d12). You do get a few tricks, but they work mostly once per encounter and with no way to recover them: Group Fake Out to use Improved Feint (but only once and only to deny enemies their Dex bonus for one attack), Point it Out and Clarity of Vision to find and point invisible creatures (again, only once and there are better ways to handle seeing invisible creatures). There’s also your 3/day “potions” which deliver some much needed healing since you don’t get wholeness of body, and you get a strong dodge bonus which results in some strong touch AC. And of course, you get ranged attacks which are at times even better than your melee attacks, but you get TWF to assist that. Even then, your full potential is somewhat lacking since you rely a lot on magic items to boost yourself; Bracers of Armor +8, Belt of Magnificence +6, Amulet of Natural Armor +5 and several tomes don’t seem to be reasonable, and with that your build takes a huge hit since you end up with roughly a minus 100 hit points and about 20-25 points less of armor, a bad hit where I see it. Perhaps if you had thought a bit on how to deal without those magic items, I would have had a different thought of the build, but as it stands, relying on flimsy interpretations and magic items, I see it as a weak build. Especially if compared to others, whom at least have a few non-magical tricks that help their builds immensely.

Score: 1.5 (I really don’t like to depend on a reading so that I can get half my power, nor into high-level magic items to be roughly decent)

Elegance
Here’s the other part of the smacking. Let’s assume, for a moment, you are a player in my table. You make a Mind Arrow, then you say “I throw my arrow to X enemy”. I, without knowing your trick, allow you to throw, and then I hear something along the lines of “I hit, and I deal 38 points of damage with two arrows”. Then I ask “how?”, and you might probably present to me my build.

Expect the facesmacking, along with “no, you can’t do that”.

Fortunately, I’m not your DM. Unfortunately, you may never know when your DM might say that, especially if you present a build like this. You are very, very lucky that Master Thrower is legal in this build, since Mind Blades can be thrown, and even luckier that your mind arrows share that Weapon Focus, because your trick could be reasonable (if it managed to fly out). But again, that depends on whether the DM allows you to create the arrow in your hand and then use it as an improvised weapon.

So, you may be asking: why not? Mind arrows are like normal arrows, and arrows can be used as improvised weapons akin to daggers, so I can use a mind arrow as a melee or thrown weapon instead of a ranged weapon. Problem is with fluff: notice how the soulbow constantly says that you form a semisolid arrow, but that it is “identical in all ways to an arrow shot from a composite longbow”. I can’t stress that enough, because that means you’re deliberately ignoring that text tidbit; the 1 round duration means that the mind arrow (or the psychic energy shaped into the arrow) remains on the area for about 6 seconds, not that you can use that mind arrow as an improvised weapon. And that not only shoots your power in the foot, but also your elegance; that missed tidbit really kills your build in the worst way imaginable.

But again; let’s assume it really worked. The text didn’t exist, the arrow can be formed into a thrown or melee weapon. In that case, I wouldn’t deck you that much in elegance, because the build is pretty complete (there were moments where I was writing, I made a double-check, and then I realized I was wrong instead of you, but I triple-checked the text on mind arrow and sadly found that little quirk that ruined your main trick), and that shows elegance; it’s not so complex, and few things are obscure enough so as to cause you any trouble. It’d worked masterfully as a sign of an elegant build, all organized and explained in a way you could see it, and a deep introspection would have dealt with many of the other possible troubles. Really; had the trick worked, you’d have quite a bit of an elegance score.

Score: 1.5 (you neglected the key piece of your trick, relying on a strong assumption that the trick would have worked. Think of it as showcasing a TO trick, except this doesn’t reach the theoretical limits of TO; it still requires the willing suspension of disbelief to think of it, though)

Use of Secret Ingredient
I can see how you intended to use the Improvised Weapons, but at the same time I don’t see on what else you could have used the class. It’s great as a throwing build, but not great as a Drunken Master; in fact, your high Wisdom score would be threatened, and all you’d get in exchange would be more Constitution by using the signature ability of the Drunken Master, which is getting drunk. Also, I see that you use the bonus to AC and the extra damage but not Corkscrew Rush, and I would have seen DM 10 as a fitting way to improve your power. Most importantly, I would have told you to find Miniatures Handbook and look at a very simple, yet effective, feat called Hurling Charge. That way, you could have gotten a stone and another weapon, claim you get the stone from the ground (if the ground has stones lying around, since Master Thrower gets Quick Draw AND you’re drawing a weapon), charge at your leisure knowing that Swagger allows you to move erratically, throw two stones (a stone usually works as if a sling bullet, hence they qualify for Palm Throw) and deal 3d6 + 1d12 + your Strength modifier on one target, THEN charge another enemy with another improvised weapon (again, TWF works wonders here) AND use Corkscrew Rush. That would have been such a mystical synergy it would have earned Originality, Power, AND Elegance points. But not seeing it hurts so very much. In fact, it would have explained why you got Master Thrower (even stones are weapons! But you wouldn’t be capable of getting Weapon Focus for that, so probably I would have had to take away the Elegance from it; that doesn’t mean you can’t use sling bullets, though, and get Weapon Focus (sling bullets), which is less flimsy of a reading than trying to use mind arrows!). I’ll give points for trying to use Improved Feint, though; I don’t see a use for Improved Grapple, which cancels the bonus.

Score: 2.0 (you’re using the Improvised Weapons from the Drunken Master, and virtually nothing else. Drunk Like a Demon hurts you, no use of the charging tricks, and you could have really taken the capstone to boost your power).

Overall: 8.5 (2.125)
The build is a showcase for a little trick on how to use thrown improvised weapons, something that had it worked, it would have provided the Drunken Master with a potent ranged attack. Sadly, the big trouble with this build is that it relies on a reading which only a sentence nullifies, which cuts on half of its potential and shows that your build depends on tricks. I’d shelve the build and refine it; if you could find ways to get improvised weapons to work with Master Thrower, you could get a nifty new way to use Drunken Master, and it might join the ranks of such builds like…erm…I dunno…maybe Harmonious Knight of Milil/Suel Arcanamach or Knight of the Weave/Ruathar/Sublime Chord/Abjurant Champion/Spellsword, aka the Arcane Paladin. I would have prized the build for a little thing that few builds lack; lateral thinking. But it’s that little sentence that kills it. Don’t get disheartened; refine it, and quite probably I could change my mind so hard it’d hurt (not to mention it could have probably swept with the competition, though you have some serious competition around)

Laph Roaig
Originality
Why, oh why, if you place Sun Wukong the Monkey King, you didn’t used a Vanara with this!? It would have been several degrees of awesome, if only because they are so rare to see (hint, hint…) Instead, you went with a pretty classic choice, which is only one step apart from expected (I wouldn’t have penalized you for a Kalashtar, or the decking in Originality would have been canceled by the boost in power). Elan are pretty cool, but I don’t see an actual reason to use an Elan over another race (say, Xeph for speed, or Dromite for their rays, or even Kalashtar; more difficult for your build would have been Half-Giant, and extremely difficult would have been Githzerai which I find to be one of the best Monk races because of the ability score boosts, Inertial Armor, free Feather Fall/Catfall and Plane Shift which might allow them to go ethereal much earlier, at a cost of +2 LA), nor a weirder race that could really justify adding Originality points (say, Buomman for example, or maybe Rhek). On the other hand, while I know that having Wild Empathy would have been redundant, the fact that you used Zerth Cenobite and not Psionic Fist (of Zuoken) delivers a smile. Personally, it’s a bit of good flavor for a bit less power, but you’re using the Zerth abilities as complements, not as main course so it’s fine. Also, wondrous idea to have all bits of your build explanations based off drinks and distilled spirits, something that blends greatly with the theme.

Score: 4.0 (Elan Ardent is kinda bad for such a flavorful build, especially when you could have pulled off something a bit more spectacular. But aside from that, it’s a very unique presentation)

Power
First things first; I won’t ever penalize you for going out of Monk. You’re doing it already. The “Monk abilities” bit is separate from “gaining Monk levels”; you are no longer gaining Monk abilities, you are expanding those that already exist. Much like Superior Unarmed Strike doesn’t increase Monk levels, and much like the Monk’s Belt doesn’t increase Monk levels, but some of the Monk’s typical abilities. Hence, your unarmed strike damage would be 1d8 (1d10 with Superior Unarmed Strike; well thought!), your Armor Class bonus would be Wisdom + 1 (Wisdom + 3 with Drunken Master bonuses), and your unarmored speed bonus would be +20 ft., so you’ve made quite a good choice with Zerth Cenobite.

Now, to the meat of the build; the power. As you may know well, there are three ways to deal with a Monk; homebrew, unarmed Swordsage (one that I don’t like) or psionics. Sadly enough, I miss Tashalatora; it would have been an awesome choice, since it would have added your few Ardent levels to your Zerth Cenobite levels and thus you would have had even more Monk-y goodness. I don’t see very well what’s the gist of getting Alabaster Aerial as an Astral Construct, aside from having a pet that assists with flying creatures; it seems a bit weird given that your psionic potential is very limited, so it would quickly lose power as you gain levels since, having only two Ardent levels, you’d be only capable of using a 1st level Alabaster Aerial. I see it’s because of the Assume Psionic Mantle ability, but I feel this could have gone for something else, something that you could use without much problem (such as, say, Consumption, or Life, or Time given you were going for Zerth Cenobite); I just don’t see why add Astral Construct which you know won’t be very powerful, and you have no ways to boost it so it’ll remain only as a pet. Brutal Strike appears too late; sicken is usually a weak debuff, but in your case it would have used Power Attack much earlier AND it would have had much better utility earlier on. There are several feats that could have been used for something else, even though someone else thought on that; namely, Overwhelming Attack to get free Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush to support Corkscrew Rush, since you don’t get any other use for Stunning Fist or Combat Reflexes (you mention use of a battlefield controller, but there’s no Improved Trip which is the usual way to handle it, nor Stand Still which is the other tactic; I assume you mix Combat Reflexes and Stunning Fist for that, right?), which would have then freed your third level feat slot for, say, Flying Kick at level 3, and then get Brutal Strike at level 9, shifting Superior Unarmed Strike at level 12th and freeing your later level feat slots (which could have been used for Practiced Manifester on Ardent, giving you ML 6th on Ardent powers and thus a better Metaphysical Claw). If not interested in Imp. Bull Rush, you could have used Overwhelming Attack on 1st level, break the fighting style at level 2 by choosing Monastic Training (Ardent) as your bonus feat, then get Tashalatora once you got enough ranks in Autohypnosis; that would have jacked up your power to great levels, since you would have then 9 effective Monk levels, a +1 to your AC and up to 2d6 points of damage on your unarmed strikes and improvised weapons (see how that adds to power?). Acrobatic Strike is another feat that’s just…apparently tacked in, offering little power for what’s worth (a +4 on the next melee attack, not the next set of melee attacks which is kinda meh).

Then comes the Swordsage dip. Darn, that is one well-thought Swordsage dip. Burning Brand increases your reach (hence, you can attack from afar; enter long pole improvised weapons dealing several points of fire damage and striking from 15 (!!!) feet, Clever Positioning and Step of the Wind work to create opportunities to pull an enemy into difficult terrain (if only you had a way to create difficult terrain, it would be lethal), Drain Vitality is there to hurt on the creature’s Con (which means even more HP lost, less Fortitude as well), Shadow Jaunt is a short-range Dim Door which allows you to escape without much predicament…it really adds to the Drunken Master’s power at least two-fold.

One more thing: why, oh why didn’t you use Psionic Lion’s Charge (especially with Flying Kick!)? Or Hustle? It’s almost unexcusable, even if Dissolving Touch is really quite good. 4d6 acid damage on one attack doesn’t compare to attacking on a full charge, something that you could have done with Swagger and start charging all the way to success (with Burning Brand and others to support you all the way). The Zerth Cenobite move action ability is used once per day, which isn’t a very good tactical move when you can nova once per day, instead of several (and Psionic Lion’s Charge + Flying Kick would have meant several points of damage, something ALMOST as good as using an improvised weapon)

Score: 3.5 (It’s a beautiful build whose power could have been polished a bit; it brings a HUGE amount of options to the table, something that I feel other builds haven’t brought so far, but adding options that are at best situational and hence not very powerful)

Elegance
Very close to have a masterful use of leapfrogging in here. You chose two of the four classes whose multiclassing potential is determined by how you use those levels, but they don’t seem to be tacked there just because. You cleverly used Desert Wind Dodge to enter (yet not very cleverly the Monk’s fighting style options, unless Combat Reflexes + Stunning Fist is your way to control the battlefield; otherwise I would have seen Overwhelming Attack + Monastic Training + Tashalatora work much, much more nicely), cleverly use the granted maneuvers from Swordsage, and even thought of ways to use Zerth Cenobite, a class that could use some more love. I can see how well explained are each of the options you’ve given for each of your abilities, though I feel some abilities would have been better than others. All in all, it’s really a blast to see how, of so many options, you’ve gathered quite a bit of them. The only decking on Elegance I’d make is because I feel a bit more thought and refining would have made a superb Drunken Master build.

Score: 4.5 (I see several surprising options, very well organized; it shows you thought of pretty much everything on the small frame you were given, and with a bit more time it could be a really nice build. It’s a build I would love to DM at, or even attempt to play, and that’s saying a lot)

Use of Secret Ingredient
It’s pretty bizarre how, at first instance, it may seem that you aren’t using the ingredient pretty much. I’ll admit; the core of the ingredient isn’t Drunken Master. Sorry to say that. But the build gains quite a bit of power from Drunken Master mostly because it does what your build intended to do; expand your options.

First: Improvised Weapons seems like a very bad idea, since your fists are really good and there’s no actual support to using them, but then I see Burning Brand, and I think “long poles + Expansion + burning brand = 20 ft. reach attack”. Swagger definitely works nicely with your charge attempts (since you wanna charge, because of Flying Kick), and you added options to gain a charge that acts more like a double move and attack (and if you had Psionic Lion’s Charge, it would have been the ultimate expression of a charge), mostly because you added mobility options (and really, that helps a lot given that you have the movement of a Monk, so it really starts to provide superb options as a Monk; I can’t see how the heck you can be held by natural terrain, so you’ve created a semi-Freedom of Movement option). Swaying Waist is kinda orphan, but it has a very tactical use; since Desert Wind Dodge activates against ALL enemies, you add that (and thus add more AC) towards the one you feel hits the most, so you’re increasing your survival options. Improved Grapple exists mostly when you need to hold someone up, and you use Expansion to work that out nicely; if lucky, you may actually catch a Large creature (but you’re trying to move when fighting larger creatures, sorta like a mouse running from a larger cat). Corkscrew Rush + Brutal Strike seems like a nice option, but I find that using Psionic Lion’s Charge would have been better (several attacks, bull rush, stun, AND sicken); nonetheless, that is the sickest (pun intended) use of Corkscrew Rush ever.

However, there’s Drink Like a Demon to consider. I see very little use for it, mostly because you effectively depend on Wisdom to use powers. But worry not; I think of it very closely, and I see it: Drink Like a Demon is your last option. Think about it; you’re drunk as heck, your psionic potential is exhausted, and there are still enemies around. Then you jug a drink. Then another, and then another. Suddenly, you resist several wounds, hit harder and better, start to heal, and even blast a furnace of flames, all the while still relying on the combat tactics that were already annoying them. Then, if you need to go away, you backslip into the future (pun also intended) and escape them just when things get really, really bad. Or just Shadow Jaunt. And if things get wrong, you just start spewing your drinks into a huge breath of flames. When all of this mixes, you can realize something pretty; Drunken Master, while not the center of the build, is such a potent component that the build would lose all of its flavor. You draw a huge reservoir of power from the Drunken Master’s secondary options, that just considering you can power up even further by drinking seems like a frightening idea. Certainly, there are few ways that creatures can overpower you, but you are so annoying to them you’ll probably make them do great mistakes. And that, of course, deserves a prize.

Score: 5.0 (aside from Improved Feint, I see how every single part of the Drunken Master chassis connects with your build. It’s not the core aspect of the build, but it opens so many options, it serves almost as a way how to optimize a Drunken Master).

Overall: 17.0 (4.25)
Thank you. Thank you. That’s…most of what I say. It was very fun to critique, it was really a blast to analyze. It’s a radical new way to see the PrC, using several options that synergize well with your build, and your build doesn’t lose much power from it. And it asks me to ask more. I really, really wanna see a more polished build, because I find that it has yet untapped potential. It’s not Sun Wukong, but closely resembles Son Gohan in that level of untapped potential. It’s not a build to monkey around.

This is one half of the voting. The other should come pretty soon, as well as some other info, and I might even do a triple-post to add some of my experiences while judging.

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-30, 02:54 AM

Vermilion
Originality
Well, it’s…a drunken minotaur. What…well…what could go wrong with that? It’s rather nice that you went for a Savage Species progression, making your race ALSO your class, and somehow fitting 8 levels of classes in order to get to Drunken Master. If there’s something original to your build, though, is it’s simplicity; it is hilariously simple (points to Elegance, thus) and relatively effective. But what hurts it is the lack of color (pun not intended); aside from Minotaur, the build is pretty bare-bones.

One saving grace: eventually it gets great. Fire-breathing, rushing minotaur coming at you is a sight to behold. But not so much as a drunken dragon-oid, for example.

Score: 3.0 (It’s a very bare-bones build, simple but not particularly special. Though, it DOES have a Minotaur as a race and a class, being one of the few whom actually uses a monster on a fairly humanoid competition, speaking on the broadest terms since not all are actually humanoids mechanically but humanoids in appearance)

Power
Pretty average, really. It’s really a build to hit hard and hit strong. It has HUGE strength bonuses, and of course the shining example of “don’t mess with the Minotaur”; horns. I see that the idea is to combine a charge with a bull rush by using Corkscrew Rush; while late, something that hits for 6d6 gore damage + Strength up the wazoo + unbeatable bull rush + near-unbeatable stun definitely screws up the opposition. Also surprising is the secondary option: get a greataxe (or better, a Minotaur Greathammer) and squash the enemy like nobody’s business, what with a tripled PA damage just with a wee little leap (and that Strength modifier makes sure you DO IT).
But I feel this build would have been much, much better if you added a little caveat; “I hope LA buy-off works”. Really, this SCREAMS for Dungeon Crasher; the damage would be insane, you’d get rid off the Minotaur LA, and get BAB +16 for all attacks. It’s really simple in its function…but unfortunately brings few else to the table. You still get troubles with flying creatures (though, if you managed to fly…), incorporeal creatures still have benefits against you, and I miss Blind-Fight only for purposes of proving invisibility is not a match for you (because you can smell the enemy, ya?). It’s a one-trick pony, something that compared to others it ain’t a surprising trick anyways (what with 30d12 breath weapons and unstoppable charges).
One good thing, though: it’s one of the few builds that are strong without magic items, something I like. Magic items are expected, but you’ll never know when you’ll have them accessible, and the less of them you don’t need to rely at, the better. It’s refreshing to see a build that doesn’t depend on those items to function at a very bare-bones degree. The fact that only the feats and class abilities can cause that much damage is refreshing.

Score: 3.5 (it doesn’t bring much to the table, though if your gore hits… Or if your axe lands…)

Elegance
The build is simple. That should tell enough. But, I’m not a man of “enough” words. Here are the pro’s and con’s of a simple build.

The cons include the fact that the build is great…for when things work. All you need to do is charge and gore, much like a minotaur would do. Rely on your gore and weapon to do the work; simple enough. Rely on an improvised weapon that works pretty much like your axe and your gore, even simpler. But when you’re unable to charge (say, difficult terrain!), then your entire potential goes to waste. Stuff like skill tricks do the work, tricks that would have only required a moderate investment in skill points which, while scarce, would have been effective. Then comes flight, or incorporealness, and all of a sudden the simple trick goes to waste. This is really, really bad; but that belongs to power.

The pros? It’s simple enough to be effective. The trick all consists on Powerful Charge, your racial ability: you wield your greataxe which you got proficiency with because of appearing in the entry list of Minotaur and what monstrous humanoid allows, and your horns which are much more powerful than anything else you can get. Then you use Power Attack, which would seem like a bad idea except you have a Strength score to allow for a reasonable hit, then Leap Attack for damage. It’s a simple, dirty and effective damage dealing build, one that only gets better with each passing level. When the build works, it’s at its best pretty much always: you might rarely miss (and if you do, you get to modulate your BAB to add to your attack, as usual), but even with no PA you’ll hit like a truck. This is getting on the tracks of the Barbarian, but you add stuff to make it even better.
The other pros? With a build so simple, it’s very difficult to miss what might go wrong. It relies on a simple tactic, not one that relies on weird rulings (Powerful Charge implies you can gore and then attack, Corkscrew Rush implies you can bull rush along the attack, Power Attack and Leap Attack are usually required when you charge), and that adds lots of brownie points for it. And it doesn’t depend on other external sources to be useful. It may not be powerful, but as presented, you know exactly why it works, and that’s something I dunno if other judges look or admire, but that I think the audience might.

I was about to give you a perfect score on Elegance. Almost. There’s just a tiny, itty-bitty problem with the build, and that’s the fact you don’t seem to use Combat Reflexes reliably. Sure, it’s great when it works, but it relies very much on your awesome damage, something that’s almost binary (a hit or a miss), and if played intelligently, you’ll rarely (if ever) see this feat in function. In fact, I ALMOST see Mobility work. Almost (since I don’t ever see worth for Mobility). Heck, if only because you needed Dodge (and could have gotten Expeditious Dodge instead, which would have been EVEN BETTER), I would have recommended Passive Way for Combat Expertise (more AC) and Improved Trip. But I feel you could have replaced that 2nd level feat unless you found a use for it. Wait, there’s another reason: I don’t see what would have happened if you added the LA buy-off option. If you did, then you’d have probably gained two more levels, and maybe got Karmic Strike or Stand Still or Robilar’s Gambit just to show how nasty your build would have been. But that is mostly optional, so no hard feelings for that, aye?

Score: 4.5 (It is a very simple build, but rarely you can find that things might not work. Savage Species might be a rare book, true, but the Minotaur already exists on the PHB and what the book does is explaining why or why not it works, and it does it in a very simple way. Aside from that, it’s presented in a simple way, and mostly everything that’s added has its use, even Power Attack and Leap Attack which I didn’t found any use until I realized there was a Greataxe at the midst and that Powerful Charge was online. So, all in all, the pros IMO greatly outweigh the cons.)

Use of Secret Ingredient
This is an unusual trait, almost worthy of Schrodinger’s paradox in how it goes on and off (though his paradox is mostly misinterpreted, but I’m a judge on this competition and not an astrophysicist). The trait is that the build doesn’t seem to look as a Drunken Master build because of several things, but when looked at it closely it actually draws a lot from the class, and what it doesn’t expand it complements instead. For example: Improvised Weapons don’t seem like a choice when you are always wielding an axe, but things change when you realize that the greataxe is strong, but getting any improvised weapon is almost as strong. You don’t use Improvised Weapons as a main tactic, but as a secondary one; however, the trick relies in that you are even more dangerous unarmed than wielding your greataxe, for any two-handed improvised weapon earns your already lethal unarmed strike damage, works for Power Attack and Leap Attack, and you don’t care that much about the penalty by lack of proficiency because you have an immense Strength score to counteract. Another is Drunk Like a Demon; you have a very good Int and Wis score, natural armor that counteracts the lack of Wis, a reasonable Dodge and AC set of bonuses (and HP to withstand most of the hits), so it’s a natural you’re going to boost your Strength even more, which by definition improves just about everything else (better damage, better attack bonus, better bull rush), so nice synergy with that one. Swagger makes your Powerful Charge even more erratic; you can move, gore and strike just from about any position which makes it a quite nasty tactic. Swaying Waist and For Medicinal Purposes exist mostly to provide greater survivability, but they are essentially orphan and unable to be altered. And of course, when you get to level 20th, Breath of Flame adds a huge amount of fire damage (3d12 per drink) to the end of the charge, so if the guy isn’t dead, he will. Period. And of course, you’ve optimized grappling quite well; not only you’re large, but also with enough strength to beat anything on your disposal, and with enough unarmed strike damage to punish the enemy; short of Gargantuan or Freedom of Movement, you catch near damn anything (but it’s kinda secondary to gore-charging).

There’s just one thing I don’t see using too much, and one I won’t punish you: Improved Feint. It’s definitely an ability you deliberately ignored, but there’s no good reason why you should feint, and given your Strength focus and lack of tactical abilities (heck, you can’t be flat-footed, so using feint on you is pointless; makes perfect sense that it’d be an actually reasonable tactic for you), so I can’t punish you for not using one ability. You use the rest, you use them so well it’s painful.

Score: 5.0 (It’s rare when a simple build uses the secret ingredient SO WELL. It’s…it’s kinda like Githzerai and Psionic Fist or Zerth Cenobite; the frickin’ PrCs are built with them in mind. Kudos on showing the perfect way to build a Drunken Master, mate, though you have challenge on how well you can use the Secret Ingredient.)

Overall: 16.0 (4.0)
It’s very nice, very refreshing to see a build that groups the core principles of the competition, and do it so easily. Using Minotaur as a race, despite probably an unusual choice, really brings Drunken Master to a whole new level of power. I still wanna see it shine a bit more, but the fact that you showed it was quite powerful without magic items shows some promise (if it had class features, or LA buy-off, it would be so nasty it hurts, pun intended). I’m sure other judges may see Minotaur as a pretty unfair choice, but I see in here a build that’s simple, effective, easy to explain (the fact that you take the usual lore of the minotaurs, add it some spice, and make a nice short story from it helps a lot) that should earn high scores. I took a good look at it first, thought it’d have low scores, but after seeing the tricks, I notice it’s really an above-average build that takes something that hurts (LA) and makes it important with each level. But, of course, the big deal is that, sometimes, it just doesn’t feel like a Drunken Master build and feels like a charger build. But that’s fine, because when you see how Drunken Master helps the build, it makes you think you made a charger out of a Drunken Master, and not only that, but provided one new way to play it.

Uthunan Kavuilika (u-THOO-nan ka-VOOIE-li-kah; that’s how you pronounce it Shinken)
Originality
Tilt-a-whirl! A monk with originally lawful tendencies turns into a chaotic barbarian, then enters a class that doesn’t care about rules but couldn’t care more about discipline, then you keep that chaotic line to get into Cleric and finally use your (horrible) luck to your benefit? But…I dunno, that’s not my cup of tea. Certainly: Goliath is a pretty odd build for a Monk, and probably weirder for a Drunken Master, but compared to a Minotaur, Mongrelfolk or Dragonborn, it’s not that striking. It’s no core race, though, and quite certainly no template, so it’s still quite original. However, originality consists of both unusual and interesting, and for some reason seeing a Goliath isn’t very interesting…or maybe it’s the pairing of classes.

But I’ll be fair. One original thing is the story, with the ties to fae, the focus on a bear and how the bear shapes your life (any shorter and you’d be a partner of Bearington the Bearbarian); another is the use of luck feats, and the idea of twisting the rules to your benefit (essentially taking advantage of a natural 1). Perhaps it’s really that; you’re trying to do something cool by twisting the meaning of the rules, something that instead of being original, it leaves a bad taste on my mouth. Maybe it’s just that.

Score: 2.0 (A little rule-twisting in the name of originality makes sense and could be liked; using obscure rules to cripple yourself and then gain power from it when it’s not needed seems like stretching disbelief a bit too far. A Goliath Monk/Barbarian was already unique enough, but it exceeded a little bit and made those enjoyable unique aspects lose some of their steam).

Power
Well…you see… What can I say of a build that tries to use obscure rules and break others? I already said that, while original and unseen, it’s not very likeable. A good attempt at fondue, but dissecting the core of the argument is hearkening to dissecting the rules of the edition, and sometimes it’s best to keep them quiet.

Evidently, what you seek here is to use a very simple tactic: grab an enemy, and use it as a club until the enemy dies or you roll a natural 1 or 20, in which you essentially “break the weapon” (and hence kill the enemy). So you’re using the power of improvised weapons in a groundbreaking new way, sorta like using arrows created from one’s own mind in the way they aren’t intended. The latter has a rule that explicitly (or mostly explicitly) disallows it; here, it’s not clear on the rules other than “imp. weapons break on a natural 1 roll”. This, of course, calls for a DM ruling, and as a judge thinking as a DM (not as a player), I go for good taste. The idea is that you want to push the DM that the weapon “breaks” (you break the neck or the vertebrae of the enemy), the DM interprets the “break” part of the rules as “making the weapon useless”, so instead of killing the enemy it no longer hits dealing lethal (or even non-lethal) damage, thus keeping good taste and decorum. That ruins the nice trick you’re trying to work with, leaving you with a grappler that depends on a single use of rage AND luck feats to succeed. What I said above may seem like a thing for Elegance, but in fact it also ruins a great deal of the power of your build, which wasn’t very strong enough.

But let’s assume, as I did earlier on, that the trick would work; you catch two humans and use them as improvised weapons, hoping that on a natural 1 they die instantly. What you have is a mostly atypical grappler that seeks to get as high a grapple modifier as possible, then beating enemies senselessly and finding creative ways to cause attack rolls in hopes you get a natural 1 or natural 20 (even literally pushing your luck for that). Going incorporeal is enough to block that tactic, or flying outside of your range; that isn’t solved, unless for some reason you throw the human and push a natural 1 (that way, you kill something even though not the intended target; did I mention watching humans fly with the idea that they may clumsily get screwed is kinda funny, at least when it’s kept on a non-realistic frameset? It doesn’t have to be humans). Anything that would ruin grapple ruins your tactic, and quite obviously that includes someone with better grapple, bigger creatures, creatures with huge Escape Artist checks, creatures with Freedom of Movement or even Grease get to evade you. And when you manage to do so, you use your weapon clumsily, or attempt to break it.

But let’s get to the good parts, aside from the main tactic. You use a system that helps a bit in controlling and even tanking allies: luck feats. Advantageous Avoidance allows you to prevent enemies from hitting you, Good Karma acts like Shield Other or the knight’s improved shield ally ability (something that would work nicely on a tank build, which this isn’t), and Unbelievable Luck/Third Time’s the Charm for moments when you need to survive or land that hit desperately (and in the case of attacks, the worst you can do is fail, not fumble). It has a bit more survivability, something I admire of people with the Luck domain, swashbucklers, users of luck feats, and Han Solo (aka, the Star Wars Roleplaying Game scoundrels which had a similar ability); however, they could have helped a lot without relying on a few bad choices.

Score: 1.5 (The core mechanic of your build relies on a flimsy reading of the rules, and you seek to actually cripple yourself to work things out. If things don’t work as intended; aka, kill people by breaking them, then the nice trick you tried to showcase breaks down and you lose a lot of potential, being only a grappler with little else to work with. Still, if you manage to grapple them, they are pretty much out of the competition and quite probably worth their use as weapons.)

Elegance
Again; pushing the rules is nice, pushing the rules a bit too far is bad. As a DM, if something looks awesome, I might even encourage it, but to make a build whose whole basis is to stretch disbelief several degrees towards impossible is not something I’d like on my table. And I presume other DMs agree. This build, or at least the core mechanic, belongs rightfully towards TO; it depends on a ruling that may or may not fly off, and it seems destined to be kept in the hangar. This is bad on a build, where you want the main trick (or tricks) to work, not to hopefully succeed.

Second bad thing is to intentionally cripple yourself and then subvert that. You used the rules for playing cursed characters in the BoVD to intentionally take benefit. A fortuituous save ends up being a disaster, only to provide a minor benefit if you succeed on a grapple; however, if you fail on a grapple, yours is only to blame (and you seek the luck feats to patch that, something that I find lacking taste). As a kicker, I’m inclined to Good people; in the interest of fairness, I shouldn’t punish you for using the Book of Vile Darkness…and I won’t. But this cheese not only stinks, it stinks of rotten and that’s bad for Elegance.

Third bad thing is the addition of Cleric. The idea is to get the domains: Luck for Third Time’s the Charm and Trickery for Trickery domain. Then, you add Fortune’s Friend to boost up that power and get TTtCh. Frankly, I find that unnecessary and terrible for the build; had it happened earlier, it wouldn’t have been so bad, but it seems like you’re progressing an entirely new build instead of adding the power of the mix into your own. Note: it seems, since adding the few Cleric spells and the Fortune’s Friend’s extra uses of luck feats allows you to survive and alter your luck in various ways, not to mention the possibility for turn undead and hence divine feats. But it doesn’t mingle with the intention of the build, something I sadly have to discourage up a bit. I wanted to be surprised, but in a good way! Fortune’s Friend was good enough alone; maybe if the build had a bit of Temple Raider of Olidammara your trick would have worked, but it seems alien to the build. I wouldn’t have had troubles with Fortune’s Friend, but I find some troubles with Cleric and what it provides.

Finally…well, I won’t punish you for alignment shifts. Some builds would be impossible without them. But there are enough things to jot down so as to make any deduction from this pointless.

Score: 1.0 (long story short: a little cheddar is nice, a mountain of gouda is bad, and this is looking like a TO cheese factory. And while I don’t believe I’m lactose intolerant, I don’t like cheese with nothing else…at least not melted, soft, and with something else to dig in. Luck feats make the build a bit more palatable.)

Use of Secret Ingredient
I don’t see much use for Drunken Master. Much less for Drunken Master 10, and that’s saying something. All I see for Drunken Master is Drunk Like a Demon (for bigger Strength along with Mountain Rage) and improvised weapons. Nothing else. And what you intend to use the build relies on a flimsy ruling, so if I were to rule this down, Drunken Master is tacked in just because. There’s no real reason why to use the class; a Barbarian with Multigrab could have probably used it better by itself, without relying on the idea that fuels the story of your build. I can’t see anything to redeem it; not even Improved Grapple, because you already got that beforehand. Really, I don’t see why this build is a Drunken Master build; this is a grappler build, something I’d see better as a Reaping Mauler. Maybe you can try again if Reaping Mauler comes in?

Score: 1.0 (you only get a benefit from Drunk like a Demon; even then, there are ways to get more Strength. I don’t see how anything can get in, even orphan features like For Medicinal Purposes, Swaying Waist or Breath of Flame).

Overall: 5.5 (1.375)
I…was quite fair with you. But those are really, really low scores. I could have given a bit more for originality, but when I saw what you tried to do to your opponents, I got disheartened. The little side of me that cheers TO says “hey, this is a cool idea”, but everything else kinda repulses it.
But I’ve had bad builds. Most of the builds I do aren’t that good; others, though, are pretty even if not gems. That shouldn’t dishearten you; it’s a cool concept, but I just can’t see it work, no matter how cool it may be. There’s bending the rules, there’s breaking the rules, there’s disregarding the rules, and then there’s not understanding the purpose of the rules. Your build blends a bit of each.

Oh, and don’t think of my diatribe as harsh. This isn’t meant to attack you, sir; this is to help you (as well as the other contestants) on future builds. Take this as you wish, probably with a grain of salt or a good drink, but I hope there’s no hard feelings involved.

Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King
Originality
If it weren’t for one itty-bitty thing, this build would have had a quite original entry. That, of course, is the odd addition of dragonborn. Perhaps it’s because of the Constitution bonus, but I really have a hard time figuring out what Dragonborn adds to the racial characteristics: there’s no mention of what else it gets, if you get the heart or wing aspect (you get the breath aspect, but it isn't mentioned in the table). It seems to be tacked on just because, and there’s not even a mention of how Nini became a dragonborn. Simply put, it seems like Bahamut acted on a whim; that’s weird, because Bahamut is lawful and usually demands that kind of respect.
Removing that…it’s the only build that uses an entry form that doesn’t require Monk. That’s laudable, even though Shou disciple is a 3.0 class that uses a different set of rules, ones you can’t take advantage of. Yes, I am aware; true_shinken agreed that Shou Disciple’s flurry ability counts for entrance, but there’s the table below that you can’t seem to use; technically, that would imply that levels in Shou Disciple would stack with levels in Monk for purposes of Flurry of Blows. But that’s something of little importance; the fact that you found one of the few non-Monk entry ways into the class deserves to be commended, and also the fact that you make uses of Scout without mentioning “Swift Hunter”.

Score: 4.5 (A small creature is awesome, and one that uses Scout, no lawful alignment AND no Monk levels deserves a prize. Sadly, all gets turned down by Dragonborn, which is bad because someone else used it better, so you get a good hit at it Nini is a Dragonborn because...? But still, no one used it, so...).

Power
Evidently you come here in one of the many charging builds, but what surprises me is that you use a small creature, instead of a larger one. Several things stack: the fact that you can use flurry with martial weapons but also pounce means you can take a reliable amount of advantage from multiple hits regardless of whether you stand still or move around; evidently, you want to be moving of course. Another solid mix is Pounce and skirmish; not only you attempt to get many hits, you actually deal more damage with them (owing to unarmed strike damage and skirmish tagging together). Finally, you take good advantage of your small size without losing much power; rage allows you to have a reasonable Strength score despite your size (and with Drink Like a Demon, even more!), and you use Small race feats such as Underfoot Combat (for more AC against larger creatures), Confound the Big Folk (two out of the three tactics are superb, especially because of your unusual Strength and because you ignore size modifiers) and Elusive Target which synergizes with Confound the Big Folk (and since you have excuses to stay still because of flurrying with improvised light weapons, you can use those tactics and take cover from your own enemy!). The latter three tactics provide phenomenal non-AC defenses, since you can even cause enemies to hit their allies instead of you. It almost excuses that your damage dice is one size lower, which means reduced damage when standing still. Then you get Power Attack and Leap Attack, and you definitely pile the damage on a very small package; the area of the fist doesn’t necessarily mean more damage, and you know that.

However, this doesn’t come with its own share of problems. Mostly, the reliance on specific magic items; as I’ve mentioned before, while a suggestion of magic items isn’t bad at all, something that shows reliance upon them (especially on stat-boosting items) is a big letdown. I wouldn’t have minded the gear to consider, but I see you do depend on a Belt of Magnificence and all tomes, something I frown upon (they are meant to be extremely rare, not so common). Without it, Nini has scores pretty close to elite array, and despite having a very good Strength for a halfling, it still hurts a bit. It hurts a bit more considering that Nini shows it has promise without all that amount of magic items, and even Drunk Like a Demon wouldn’t have hurt that much, something that makes adding the magic items a bit of a pointless tactic to prove the worth of your build. Believe me: I’m not impressed by a Strength 30+, but the fact that it has great non-AC defenses (aside from Will) including size-related defenses, another strength for small sizes.

Score: 4.0 (Belt of Magnificence and 6 tomes undermine the worth of using a small-size character in a most unusual way. You already qualify for Power Attack, and Drunk like a Demon adds quite a bit to that Strength.
ADDITION: Charger tactics are a bit unexplored, but you mingle the Killer Gnome tactics into your charger tactics so they cancel each other out. Still, they elicit a reduction because you'd depend on magic items to cancel those, and the fighting style can only take advantage of so much...)

Elegance
Everything is very well explained. Barbarian and Scout mingle very well, what with Pounce and Skirmish setting up a potent damage source. The fact that you have used two classes that depend on roughly the same entry requirements makes Dodge less painful to get (though, IMO, you should have gotten Expeditious Dodge because you’ll constantly be using it, and it grants even more Dodge bonus to AC). And Shou Disciple allows something that you couldn’t have gotten otherwise; to flurry with weapons, even if only improvised light weapons (but hey, add some TWF and more unarmed strike damage to that and you get even MORE damage).

One thing that worried me, though, was the mix between Shou, jungle halfling and dragonborn. That seems to be a bit of stale or badly-done fluff: Shou disciple requires you to be either from the region, or to know pretty well of the region; the two ranks on Knowledge (local; Shou Expatriate) explain the first, but I don’t seem to connect why a jungle halfling, or why dragonborn added to that. Dragonborn seems tacked on to the class for more Con, while jungle halfling exists mostly to prevent an XP penalty and there’s not much use for it (though you get proficiency with the shortbow, which should deal a bit with the range problem). Worse; halfling could have helped a bit with range, since you get at least a +1 to thrown weapons and some of the improvised weapons could very well be thrown. I can’t seem to justify how a region that resembles China could work as a jungle so as to allow jungle halflings; there’s Guangdong/Kwangtung which could qualify as a jungle and thus explain whether jungles could exist in Shou as a China-expy, but those aren’t treated as actual tropical rainforests, so a DM may very well disqualify it on a whim. The lack of clarity from this, and the fact the alternate race exists merely as a method to prevent a penalty makes the race choice rather unusual, even more since you could have found a small race which could have helped a bit more (and probably be even more unique). Then you add dragonborn, and it makes me think whether the race choice is actually legal.

Still, I love how you explain the tricks, with catchy titles to indicate their general utility. I also like that, despite the reliance on stat-boosting items, you mention which magic items could work with the class on a separate part, showing how the magic items could boost the character but still showing separately how the build is still effective without them.

Score: 4.5 (I don’t like much the choice of race in terms of how little explanation for why it is possible exists within the build description; fluff is one thing, but it doesn’t seem to bind to the bigger fluff. However, it shows you don’t need to be a Monk to enter Drunken Master)

Use of Secret Ingredient
It doesn’t take much to see what kind of tricks you were trying to work with Drunken Master. The fact that the ultimate tactic goes online at level 20th and that you take only 9 levels makes it painstakingly obvious: a charger with Corkscrew Rush tacked in, with Drink Like a Demon adding to the Strength (and hence increasing attack rolls, damage rolls and bull rush opposed checks; then you stun the enemy). However, while there’s almost an exact similar build that works with this (Vermilion’s Powerful Charge tactic), you add a new ingredient to the list, one that’s really, really worthwhile: Skirmish. Skirmish adds two things, one being the tacked damage and the other being the +1 bonus to AC. This may not seem as much: 2d6 tacked on to, technically, another 2d6 worth of unarmed strike damage plus 1d12 by means of improvised weapons may not seem much, but a +1 to AC that stacks with your AC bonus is worthwhile, even more when you realize you can wear armor. This is a big win, since the AC bonus for Drunken Master is independent of the AC bonus of the Monk, which means you get roughly 2 points of AC to add to light, medium or even heavy armor if you want (though heavy armor cripples your Evasion and Dex bonus to AC), coupled with Swaying Waist and the Shou Disciple’s Dodge bonus to AC. Swagger obviously works with the charge, which becomes ever more important when coupled with Skirmish AND Elusive Target.

That said, I disagree with some of the other uses. Your small size makes Improved Grapple a risk more than anything else, since you can’t grapple larger creatures and your feats don’t provide boosts to grapple; your size and Strength, though, allow you to escape grapples well which may be a good option. Likewise, there’s too little Charisma and Bluff for an effective feint, and your mobility dependence makes feinting a bad idea. The fact that you at least try to consider it isn’t an excuse for not being truly able to use it.

Score: 4.0 (Breath of Flame is missed and not much use of Improved Feint, though I forgive the latter. Still, that’s probably one of the two most dangerous Corkscrew Rushes I’ll see, worse because yours actually grants the skill to land a few more hits. A few more feats and you’d have struck gold, probably Flying Kick, Snap Kick and maybe Clever Wrestling, but you don’t really need them to be brutally effective.)

Overall: 17.0 (4.25)
Your path is quite bizarre; blending killer gnome and charger strategies seems counter-intuitive because killer gnomes tend to be Small (or smaller) and chargers tend to be usually Medium but preferably Large (or Larger). However, your path pays off nicely; the fact that you deal quite a bit of damage, if not MORE, than most chargers and still rely on killer gnome defenses grants you quite a bit of leverage. It’s also a Drunken Master build which, despite having most of the problems with most martial characters (inability to fly on its own, troubles with illusions or incorporeal creatures), it tackles some of the troubles (namely non-AC defenses) quite well. I attempt to reason how Dragonborn fits in (I see a mention of using the breath weapon), but I would have discarded it; no true flavor comes from it, actually, and the breath weapon you get doesn’t get some of the nice tricks to power it up, so it mostly seems to exist just because, and no real synergy with the class (and it would have made Breath of Flame all the more nice). Even if Dragonborn wasn’t present, the build is quite good, and actually pretty powerful considering the other people are either Medium, Large, or Medium acting like Large.

Gazebo Jones
Originality
The name “Gazebo” shows it all. A Warforged…not very eye-catching, I must admit. There’s the typical Monk (which isn’t really a problem), and even a bit of Fighter to boot. Normally, it wouldn’t be a surprising build, and could be easily dismissed. Then you get me. Drunken pogo stick humping…erm, leaping upon the body of the fallen victim? Darn, that’s comedy gold! And the thing is, it’s meant to be serious!
Another thing is using one of the Thralls. Usually, the Thralls and Disciples tend to be pretty potent, though usually used to enable sickening builds (mostly Disciple of Dispater for critical shenanigans). There are other ways to get Alter Self, but this one is pretty clever indeed, and one that essentially forces you to be evil. So…you may very well be used by any of the other guys in the competition, and eventually betray them by attacking them! I mean, just seeing you and Bu fight each other (you because you’re evil and hiding as an improvised weapon, Bu because he hunts other Drunken Masters but not necessarily cares for alignment) would make for a very interesting fictional story…

Score: 3.5 (the fact that you are your own weapon takes a whole new meaning. Also; you are a slimy guy, indeed. And I’m not speaking about sleazy either.)

Power
One thing I’ve noticed is that most builds go for grapple, charging or dealing with improvised weapons. You, on the other hand, try your hand on several tactics, including charging (Power Attack + Shock Trooper + Combat Brute), bull-rushing (Imp. Bull Rush + Corkscrew Rush + Combat Brute), and even the lesser used sunder and overrun. This is both a boon and a curse.

The boon, of course, lies in that you use Combat Brute for charging and bull-rushing, which supports your use of the PrC. Combat Brute also supports sundering, allowing you to get what you usually get with Improved Trip, plus you make the enemy lose its weapon or shield, meaning that if they depend on a weapon they’re officially screwed (and with your corrosive slime, I think you can reliably destroy a weapon). When you use Corkscrew Rush, you essentially prepare to deal even greater damage on the next round, sorta like a Stormguard Warrior benefit which is really, really awesome. Then, from Shock Trooper, you get Directed Bull Rush and Domino Bull Rush, which means you do so much with bull rush attempts that it hurts…or would have hurt, except for something I’ll mention below. You use Improved Overrun instead of trip, which means you can also let enemies fall to the floor and take advantage of their state to land free hits, and if they escape, they set up nicely for your future charges.

The curse, though, relies on what's missing of each tactic. First, bull rush: you have four levels of Fighter, and I really, really don’t understand why you didn’t got Dungeon Crasher. You more than anyone else, because you’re redefining bull rush as a potent offensive move, and Corkscrew Rush with Dungeon Crasher, Combat Brute and Shock Trooper would have delivered a world of hurt. Because of what you do, you’ll rarely use overrun, which is a tactic that’s very hard to optimize (you can’t land a hit while using it, something that’s really bad because it doesn’t work as well as trip does), and you’re…sundering. Sundering, something that almost 100% of the players can agree, is bad; you get no magic items or loot at all, and that can be a waste even for someone who may not see himself or herself as depending on magic items.

However, let’s leave that behind. Let’s go to the real power behind your character; Alter Self. It’s hard to define which monsters make good constructs, but Alter Self allows you to use them all (or mostly all); aside from animated objects (which is the source of your power), you can transform into stuff like guardian familiars or homunculi or even other kinds of warforged. Using constructs of less than 5 HD well works much better than using animated objects, a power that undoubtedly shouldn’t go to waste (all the more if you get a form that aids on your combat actions and still allows you to use your feats).

One thing worries me, though, and that’s how feasible it is to use yourself as a weapon. You can blame that worry on what others have said, but it’s indeed a sensible worry; to what extent something counts as an improvised weapon? As far as I can see, it requires being an object; the moment an object becomes animated, it becomes a creature and stops becoming an improvised weapon. Furthermore, you have no hand with which to wield yourself, so the trick may end up being a bit pointless. However, I don’t consider it that much because your powers lie elsewhere, mostly within Alter Self (and some other of the Thrall’s powers such as sickening slime and corrosive touch) and combat maneuvers (bull rush, charge, sunder, overrun).
One more thing: the best thing you can have is a summoned ooze. They are hard to manipulate, but harder to defeat and much harder to deal with. Even the most potent spellcaster may find himself victim of an ooze, and that’s as much defense you can get against them.

Score: 3.5 (Your main trick isn’t really your main trick, and your real main tricks are either really good but bested by others, or lackluster. Alter Self isn’t exploited which is a shame. Yet, being a thrall gives you a potent ally to use, one that used appropriately can cause nearly anything to grit their teeth in anger.)

Elegance
A thrall of Juiblex (not Jubilex) is kinda messy, but the build really isn’t that messy. It’s quite simple, straight to the point: a few levels of Monk to prepare for Drunken Master, Fighter levels for better BAB and more feats, Thrall of Juiblex for your trick and Drunken Master for your other tricks. I find little problem with that.

What I find problems is with your main trick. As I can see it, turning into an animated object wouldn’t fly out; you are the weapon, but you really do slam attacks which you can already do as a warforged (you do get the unarmed strike damage as a warforged monk with your slams, IIRC). Still, there’s a benefit from listing on what you can turn into: you determine what are your options when using a real improvised weapon.

Quirk-wise, I liked the small FAQ and how the story works as an introduction to the build, allowing you to hide in plain sight of your opponents AND making for an interesting read. A bit turned off because of the immense title, and the fact it’s used twice.

Score: 3.0 (Pretty simple, bare-bones and effective; still, I have some troubles with the main trick and how viable that may be.)

Use of Secret Ingredient
I admire that you tried to have improvised weapons in mind, but they aren’t really your forte. With two levels of Monk, the damage you get is pretty little and mostly insignificant, which means YOU as an improvised weapon wouldn’t have dealt much damage; that said, you probably can’t use yourself as an improvised weapon so you can’t add the damage to yourself (though that’s clever use of lateral thinking). As usual, anything that charges and uses Bull Rush uses Swagger and Corkscrew Rush, so definitely using them well. I have no qualms with Drink Like a Demon, since while you don’t actually get drunk, the rules speak nothing about you having to get drunk, so you can be called Gazebo “Placebo” Jones and still be as effective.

One big point I wanna say about Corkscrew Rush. If you had added the Dungeon Crasher feature, that would have been one LETHAL bull rush charge, dealing damage on the first try and then shelling out Power Attack on the second, along with adding the very nice bonus to attack and damage rolls from the earlier roll (and if you used Power Attack on the latter one, benefitting from Momentum Swing). Also, if you had thought of Leap Attack, you could have nearly tripled your PA damage and with a +16 that’s nothing to scoff off. Having said that, you probably made the best use of Corkscrew Rush’s bull rush attempt, pairing off with other great charger builds on the use of that ability. Your Strength aids for Improved Grapple, but I don’t really see how you can use it more than other competitors, and Improved Feint is something that you clearly ignore. The other orphan features provide a minor benefit, though I have my worries about For Medicinal Purposes, since you’re a Warforged; in any case, you gain half the benefit of For Medicinal Purposes, and that hurts the ability a LOT. You don’t get to heal 2d8+3; you heal half that amount, which can be somewhere between 2 to 9 hit points of damage, something pretty insignificant.

Score: 2.5 (One of, if not the, best uses of Corkscrew Rush, but the other abilities don’t seem to shine, and you nerfed the potential of For Medicinal Purposes. If it really flew out, you could draw a lot from improvised weapons added damage, but you don’t add too much damage to your slams, so you mostly depend from charging.)

Overall: 12.5 (3.125)
For all the funny hijinks that could ensue, I don’t see much potential in this character. It makes a unique use of Alter Self, but aside from that, you get little benefit from Fighter or Drunken Master. Remaining as a Thrall would have been much more effective in your case, because while Corkscrew Rush is clearly a target of your build, the Thrall itself would have given you greater benefits (such as more oozes to manipulate or more acid to secrete, not to mention immunity to crits, sneak attacks, paralysis and poisons which you lack. As a Drunken Master, I see little to justify delving all 10 levels aside from Corkscrew Rush, and I see very few combat maneuvers truly synergizing with each other aside from bull-rush, charge, and probably sunder.

T.G. Oskar

2010-11-30, 03:28 AM

Alright, now for the experiences:

First and foremost, thanks for showing your builds. Some were really, really good, while some IMO could have done better (and there was one build that really disappointed me because of what it relies upon). Took me a while to do each, but after a pretty solid run I finished the last four today; so, while it's Tuesday, some people may think of it as late Monday. So, word has been honored.

Second, and for the curious: the document where I saved the judgings has 21 pages, 15,183 words, 85,458 characters (with 70, 364 of those characters not relying on lines or spaces), 982 lines and 140 paragraphs. So yes, it's a long document. It's not the longest document I've ever made, however. So, in case you were wondering whether I had a Twitter account, you may realize it's impossible for me to have one because I LOVE to write stuff.

Finally, there's one thing I did to each build, and that was give an opinion on how to make them better. You see; even if the build is good, giving options on how to make it better should aid the contestants in future sessions. Ideally, a build should have a sense of power and flavor in equal terms, but sometimes a contestant finds himself (or herself) in a rush and doesn't consider a move that could provide some more power or add to the flavor. For example; while there were 3 Monk builds for every one non-Monk build, only a few considered fighting styles, and I don't recall ever seeing an alternate class feature or racial substitution level applying to the Monk (but I saw it on other classes). Some choices I expected them to be a bit more pronounced but they were absent; namely, Expeditious Dodge was great for mobility-geared builds, but sadly I didn't saw it on action. I saw two or three builds whom could have taken advantage of Dungeon Crasher as well. These, amongst others, are tidbits on how to customize and improve builds to add more power or complement the main trick, or even to add to the flavor (since something such as Expeditious Dodge would have fit something like Skirmish, for example, or even Swagger).

Having said that, any comments or questions please provide to Chairman Shinken. I hope to be of service and that I made a fair judging, even though all scores varied wildly.

Grynning

2010-11-30, 03:46 AM

(Stealing OMG_Ponies' table)

{table=head]Name|Place|Total|Average
Vermillion|GOLD|44|3.67
Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King|SILVER|42|3.5
Laph Roaig|SILVER|42|3.5
Gazebo Jones|BRONZE|41|3.417
Bu the Hobo Fist|Fifth|40|3.33
Eric Redscale|Sixth|38|3.167
Uthunan Kavuilika|Seventh|32.5|2.71
Simon the Incompetent Archer|Eighth|32|2.67[/table]

Looks like we're going to need another judge to break up the 2nd place tie, and it'd be good anyways since the top scores are very close and have swung so wildly across the three judges so far.

WinWin

2010-11-30, 04:23 AM

I had some time so I did a little scoring. I shall await the chairmans permission before I post them though.

true_shinken

2010-11-30, 07:02 AM

I had some time so I did a little scoring. I shall await the chairmans permission before I post them though.

Go ahead, WinWin.
Even after WinWin posts, I'll await until the end of the week to see if the remaining judges do show up.

WinWin

2010-11-30, 09:41 AM

Sorry for the delay

Bu
Originality 3.5: I like the idea, though I would not require a reflavouring of Fist of the Forest as a DM. As long as your character slept outdoors or used improvised shelter and did not actually pay for sustenance, it would be adhering to the requirments of the class. Chameleon was unexpected, but see below.
Power 4: Versatile and decent combat efficacy.
Elegance 3: Mongrelfolk do not qualify for chameleon without taking a feat like Human Heritage. Otherwise ok, but may lag behind at a few points in his career depending on the composition of the party. Additional 1 awarded to elegance
Use of Secret Ingredient 3.5: You make decent use of a few features. Nothing unexpected here. For charge optimization I would have thought Corksrew Rush to be invaluable.

Eric Redscale
Originality 5: I can honestly say I was not expecting Dragonfire Adept.
Power 2: I can see what you were trying to do here...I am not that impressed. Sure, you can dish out the hurt when you reach the capstone, but before then your damage is not that impressive. With an attack bonus of +11, the listed tactics you suggested will most likely fail when your breath weapon is unavailable.
Elegance 2.5: Starts of strong, DM adds to Save DC's of breath weapon, but otherwise inhibits the build until the capstone. Most campaigns struggle to reach level 10, let alone level 20.
Use of Secret Ingredient 2.5: You make exceptional use of a couple of features. The others appear to be wasted space.

Simon
Originality 4.5: Soulknife/bow was not was I was expecting
Power 3.5: Hinges on a dubious argument about mind arrows. A bonus point for making your own booze.
Elegance 2: You seem to want to optimize Soulbow before moving into a class that harms the build.
Use of Secret Ingredient 2.5: DM seems to be more of an afterthought than the main ingredient. Clever if you can convince the DM that your trick works as intended.

Laph Roig
Originality 4: A psionic build is an interesting approach.
Power 3: Difficult to approximate accurately. You counter the low BAB by making touch attacks and certainly have the charging down...But you encounter a few traditional Monk stop/start inhibitions. Martial maneuvers and Powers help here, but I can forsee a few issues with action economy.
Elegance 4: Fairly straightforward with a lot of content for levels invested.
Use of Secret Ingredient 3: This score relates somewhat to power. You go to great pains to describe how Psionics and Maneuvers help the build but make almost no mention of Drunken Master's features. I would have liked to have seen more description of how it was essential to the character other than as a prerequisite for competition.

Vermillion
Originality 4: Minotaur monk. Unusual for sure.
Power 2: Not really overwhelming. You start fairly strong, then almmost in spite of racial ability modifiers you character begins falling behind. I expected more damage potential from the use of Minotaur.
Elegance 4: Simple, but not really effective in comparison to other builds.
Use of Secret Ingredient 2: I do not see it. Even with LA buyoff this build would be struggling to make great use of all features of the PrC.

true_shinken

2010-11-30, 09:56 AM

WinWin seems to be missing a few contestants, but by now (with WinWin's judgings for Bu, Eric, Simon, Laph and Vermillion) we have a tie for first place. Let's wait for WinWin's remaining judgings, but by now it seems we're gonna need another judge! Well, nevermind. We still could have a tie for 2nd place.
1st - Chieftain Nini - 59
2nd - Vermillion - 56
2nd - Laph - 56
4th - Gazebo Jones - 52
5th - Eric Redscale -50
6th - Simon the Incompetent Archer - 44.5
7th - Uthunan Kavuilika Seventh - 42.5
8th - Bu the Hobo Fist - 40

More surprisingly all contestants still have a shot of winning if we indeed get another judge. This looks like the most balanced IC so far!
Well, this did swing anywhere. Very, very balanced. Let's see all disputes, votes for honorable mention and wait to see if we have another judge until the end of the week.

WinWin

2010-11-30, 10:00 AM

for some reason I can't post anything with copy/pasted content. annoying, as I have to retype everything. This is going to be a major issue if I plan on competing or judging in another competition...I do everything via a word processor.

Uthunan
Originality 4.5: Barbarian Monk...That attempts to optimize failure. Sure, have some points.
Power 2.5: Improved Grab requires an attack roll to hit...Lucky your natural attacks are not improvised. Grappling is an opposed roll, not an attack roll. As for using an opponent as a weapon I can see nothing in the rules about it, but a permissive DM may allow it. Even so, swinging a pinned opponent around for a 1 in 10 chance of auto-destruction is not an efficient form of optimization. Mildy amusing in a one-off game. An inefficient use of actions over the course of a campaign.
Elegance 1.5: The build seems to be geared around one trick.
Use of Secret Ingredient 2: You attempted to enhance one minor aspect of Drunken Master. A more rounded character may have resulted in a higher score.

Chieftain Nini
Originality 4: I was not expecting a halfing Shou Disciple.
Power 4.25: You're behind the rest of the party thanks to multiclass penalties, from level 4 onwards. Aside from that, you make decent use of Elusive Target, Pounce and Corkscrew Rush for some impressive staggering charges and battlefield mobility.
Elegance 4.25: Multiclassing hurts. Aside from that, your build is relattively straightforward.
Use of Secret Ingredient 5: Probably the best in this round as far as I am concerned. Comprehensive and all features are addressed. There is some room for improvement, but then there almost always is.

Edit: Additional 0.25 awarded to Power and Elegance

Gazebo
Originality 3: Reminds me of psycrystal optimization, though this build takes it into a different dimension
Power 4: Whilst in another form, Gazebo is still a construct. His attacks are not improvised as construct are proficient with their natural attacks. Having said that, many construct form are still capable of using improvised weapons.
Elegance 1.5: Constructs do not eat. Unlike Outsiders, which do not need to eat, but can if they choose to...By my reading this character can not become a Drunken Master. This score has been modified by and additional 0.5
Use of Secret Ingredient 3: An interesting approach, but I do not believe that your character can qualify for the class. If he could...Then your creative approach would certainly be effective

The Vorpal Tribble

2010-11-30, 10:16 AM

I'd volunteer as tie breaker, but I've been judging/critiquing the PrC competition for several days and too mentally weary of homebrew.

How about you just choose your favorite, Shinken? In contests I run I reserve votes until just such an occasion.

Edit: That's odd. Working on an NPC for my game called Vermilion....

Heliomance

2010-11-30, 10:29 AM

I don't see a judgement for Gazebo Jones from WinWin.

WinWin

2010-11-30, 10:34 AM

All done. I did not require two posts, but for some reason the server did not appreciate my writing style. I can't say I blame it, really.

true_shinken

2010-11-30, 11:12 AM

We already have disputes for WinWin's judgings!

Vermillion

WinWin refers to LA buy-off. As far as I can tell, Vermillion doesn't buy off LA. If WinWin used buy off as part of his judging, another look might adjust the scoring (and break the tie).

Gazebo Jones

Warforged are able to use potions, so they indeed can drink.

Laph

I'm curious about which features he feels I didn't mention? Corkscrew Rush, improvised weapons and specifically improvised tower shield, Drink Like a Demon, Stagger, Swaying Waist, Improved Grapple and Breath of Flame were all explicitly highlighted...

Also, since score are so close, I'd really like it if we could get another judge.

OMG PONIES

2010-11-30, 11:18 AM

This is definitely one of the most back-and-forth rounds of Iron Chef in terms of scores.

true_shinken

2010-11-30, 11:20 AM

This is definitely one of the most back-and-forth rounds of Iron Chef in terms of scores.

No doubt about it. Lots of excellent submissions here; even the current last place was leading a few days ago!

Amphetryon

2010-11-30, 11:21 AM

This is definitely one of the most back-and-forth rounds of Iron Chef in terms of scores.

The judges' waists are swaying... :smallbiggrin:

Dusk Eclipse

2010-11-30, 11:31 AM

The judges' waists are swaying... :smallbiggrin:

:smallsigh: I actually grounded aloud... congratulations Amphetryon you made me come out of lurking.

I have to say that I approve :smalltongue:

Grynning

2010-11-30, 12:12 PM

Shinken, Bu's score should be 53, making him in 4th place, not 8th. I'll re-do the table in a bit.

Grynning

2010-11-30, 12:34 PM

{table=head]Name|Place|Total|Average
Chieftain Nini, the Whiskey King|GOLD|59|3.69
Vermillion|SILVER|56|3.5
Laph Roaig|SILVER|56|3.5
Bu the Hobo Fist|BRONZE|53|3.31
Gazebo Jones|Fifth|52.5|3.28
Eric Redscale|Sixth|50|3.13
Simon the Incompetent Archer|Seventh|43.5|2.72
Uthunan Kavuilika|Eighth|42.5|2.66[/table]

Only went to two decimal places all around this time. I'm leaving a bronze in on the second place tie to make it easier to read, I dunno how the trophies would go out in that case.

WinWin

2010-11-30, 01:06 PM

Vermillion

WinWin refers to LA buy-off. As far as I can tell, Vermillion doesn't buy off LA. If WinWin used buy off as part of his judging, another look might adjust the scoring (and break the tie).

My reference was that even if the character had used LA, they would still be struggling to keep up with a party. By that I mean high level play and the challenges it poses. Bonus attributes and natural attacks are a small return to the character for 8 levels of investment.

Gazebo

Warforged are able to use potions, so they indeed can drink.

Silly me. I read the Construct type description instead of the Living Construct subtype. Thanks to Alter Self, the character would retain constitution. However, the description of Living Constructs says that they do not need to eat, sleep or breathe. Unlike Outsiders, there is no caveat that says they can if they choose to. There is only a stipulation that they can benefit from spells and consumable magical items. I suppose the character could get drunk...It would just be a lot more expensive due to the restictions of their physiology and the requirement that their libation be a consumable magical item. Also, while in an altered form, they may no longer benefit from the Living Construct subtype. I'll alter elegance by half a point.

Laph

I'm curious about which features he feels I didn't mention? Corkscrew Rush, improvised weapons and specifically improvised tower shield, Drink Like a Demon, Stagger, Swaying Waist, Improved Grapple and Breath of Flame were all explicitly highlighted...

Explicitly Highlighted? Those features were mentioned, but somewhat overshadowed by everthing else going on in the build.