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View Full Version : [3.5] Master of Nonlethal Damage?



zyborg
2010-11-15, 09:21 PM
I'm wondering about a character that doesn't like/refuses to kill, so he deals nonlethal damage. What classes/feats/weapons/etc. would be the best for this?

Keld Denar
2010-11-15, 09:35 PM
Tashalatoran King of Smack.

Monks naturally can convert all of their unarmed strike damage to non-lethal.

Tash + PsyWar allows you to easily stack on size mods.

Weapon of the Vampire gives you temp hp equal to half of the damage you do with your 64d6 hamfists.

Go nuts!

Other than that, a charger with a +1 Valorous Merciful weapon? A Hulking Hurler with a +1 Merciful moon?

Mr.Christie
2010-11-15, 10:34 PM
Rogues can't deal lethal damage with sneak attacks with a sap.

Assassin89
2010-11-15, 10:42 PM
Justiciar from complete warrior has nonlethal strike, which is a sneak attack that deals nonlethal, and can deal nonlethal damage with any melee weapon without the -4 penalty.

And from the magic side of things, there is the nonlethal substitution metamagic feat.

zyborg
2010-11-15, 11:02 PM
I'm a bit confused as to how metamagic works. Are they feats you tack onto specific spells, or do you have to have the regular spell and a metamagicked spell, thus having a variation of a spell taking up a second slot?

Psyren
2010-11-16, 12:06 AM
I'm a bit confused as to how metamagic works. Are they feats you tack onto specific spells, or do you have to have the regular spell and a metamagicked spell, thus having a variation of a spell taking up a second slot?

They work differently depending on whether you are prepared or spontaneous.

If you are prepared (e.g. wizard, cleric) - you must, for each slot, choose whether you're preparing a regular spell, or the metamagicked version of a spell (typically, this will be a lower-level spell because most metamagic raises the equivalent spell level.) You must do this ahead of time, i.e. when you would normally prepare spells, before the adventuring day gets underway.

e.g. you are a 3rd-level wizard with Extend Spell, a +1 metamagic. In your 2nd-level slots, you could prepare 2nd-level spells (Bull's Strength, Alter Self etc.) or you could prepare Extended 1st-level spells (Extended Protection from Evil, Extended Mage Armor etc.) or any combination of the two. Either option will use your 2nd-level slots.

If you are a spontaneous caster (e.g. sorcerer, bard), you don't have to apply metamagic ahead of time; you can wait until you're ready to cast a spell and do it then. But the level restriction still applies, and it will increase the casting time of your spell to a full-round action.

e.g. you are a 4th-level sorcerer with Extend Spell, a +1 metamagic. You don't have slots anymore - now you have uses/day. You can use your 2nd-level uses per day on 2nd-level spells (e.g. Alter Self) or you can Extend any of the 1st-level spells you know; they will now take a full-round action to cast and use up a 2nd-level use/day instead of a 1st-level one.

To answer your question, you're never forced to prepare or cast a metamagicked spell alongside its non-metamagic version - though you can if you want to. (e.g. I can prepare both Summon Monster I and Extended Summon Monster I - the first in my 1st-level slots and the second in my 2nd-level slots - or I can just do one or the other.)

zyborg
2010-11-16, 07:17 PM
Are there any metamagic feats that I can take that don't increase the spell level, besides the Nonlethal Substitution? I'm trying to come up with a nonlethal caster, but the Nonlethal Substitution requires a metamagic feat as a prerequisite.

pffh
2010-11-16, 07:22 PM
Invisible spell is a +0 metamagic. It turns your spells invisible so you can cast invisible invisbility and an invisible invisible stalker, why? I'm invisible invisible and don't need to answer.

Psyren
2010-11-16, 07:31 PM
You can just take another metamagic feat (like Quicken or Extend); you don't have to actually use it.

Invisible Spell is broken and most DMs won't allow it.

Khatoblepas
2010-11-16, 07:48 PM
I think Vow of Nonviolence/Peace is perfect for this character. Well, maybe not Peace if you're playing with a party of murderers (read: the average party) but it'll up the DCs of any abilities you cast.

Also, Invisible Nonlethal Substituted spells would be the best thing ever. The enemy wouldn't know what hit them, but it would be darn annoying. Bonus points if you play in a party of undead against the living. Friendly fire? What friendly fire? Oh, I'm just hanging out in my Invisible Ring of Blades, in my wall of blades, shooting a Cloud of Knives. Don't worry, they're invisible nerf blades.

I'd love to play a nonlethal melee character, though. Maybe a Half Ogre Zhentarim Dungeoncrasher (if it's legal) 9/Warblade 11, who uses his presence in battle to cow his opponents, but is really squeamish about the sight of blood. So he just beats his opponents til they faint.

Psyren
2010-11-16, 07:50 PM
If you want nonlethal melee, monks unarmed swordsages are perfect. Any class with IUS can substitute nonlethal damage at no penalty.

Vow of Peace is a long coiled turd and should be avoided.

IIRC, Shadowcasters are pretty decent at nonlethal damage as well.

Shade Kerrin
2010-11-16, 07:52 PM
There's also the Whelm spell line, which deals NL damage.

It is mind affecting, though, so there's a fair number of immune targets.

Some other spells that don't directly cause harm could also be used, such as Dominate

FMArthur
2010-11-16, 07:55 PM
Invisible Spell is awesome but requires another metamagic feat anyway. I'm not sure but maybe using retraining or Psychic Reformation, you could swap out your first metamagic feat to Invisible Spell using your second feat to qualify for it and vice versa.

zyborg
2010-11-16, 08:02 PM
Hmm... Unarmed Swordsage might work, instead of a caster. I like that. Though a spellcaster throwing fireballs that cannot kill would be interesting as well.

OracleofWuffing
2010-11-16, 08:03 PM
Masters of the Wild has the Watch Detective Prestige Class, which has a No Subdual Penalty class feature, the ability to add Int to Subdual Damage, and a bonus to disarming.

Sadly, I think that the other suggestions already made would make superior choices as far as combat efficiency goes, but at least those options are on the table.

Lev
2010-11-16, 08:06 PM
Be careful of dealing too much NL damage as it still qualifies for massive damage, and when you start dealing 8D6+10 NL damage this starts to become a concern.

Coidzor
2010-11-16, 08:07 PM
Depends on how much of a RAW stickler your DM is and your alignment/class restrictions. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0)

This is probably the best way, considering how you can get a cheap, AOE knock-out effect for low levels with the expenditure of some skillpoints.

Synapse
2010-11-16, 08:09 PM
It's hard to miss with Extend spell. Just get extend and then non-lethal. the NLS feat requires a previous metamagic feat, not that you use it. Extended spells have their uses anyway so it's far from a waste.

Psyren
2010-11-16, 08:13 PM
Hmm... Unarmed Swordsage might work, instead of a caster. I like that. Though a spellcaster throwing fireballs that cannot kill would be interesting as well.

Another route is Purify Spell from BoED. Your spells can still kill, but good creatures are unaffected.